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calvindamenace View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2010 at 2:42pm
here seekshidayath.. an article for you http://www.quran-islam.org/meat_of_dogs_and_cats_(P1138).html Also, I didn't understand what you meant by "slaughter"? For food? Well if you'd eat that, sure, why not.

Edited by calvindamenace - 23 February 2010 at 6:04pm
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seekshidayath View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2010 at 6:18pm
Well, Martha and calvin, there's no direct command of Allah swt in the Qur'an about dogs to be eaten. {Am sorry for giving a senseless example, as i was reading of dogs in Islam yesterday, so holded that in my mind }

What i intended to say, there are many such things in the Qur'an of which Qur'an is not direct. Very simple example is of salah. Qur'an commands us for salah while hadith explain us how to offer salah. I was trying to explain you all that.

Regarding contradictions, for example these days i was debating over permissibility of celebration of Prophet's birthday in Islam. There is variation of views . Scholars contradict. Both the types, prove from Qur'an and sunnah, as its permissible and not permissible. What to do in that case.We can take up any ruling, that which we feel is correct. We shud not follow our desires. But there's an insight within us, and Allah swt knows us very well. If we are true seekers, we will get true guidance from Allah swt.

At matters where Qur'an and Sunnah are absolutely silent, and when we take up any ruling from the scholar, which we feel it appropriate, and which are much closer to Quran and sunnah, then we are not questioned by Allah swt for that. Nor, is it a sin. Allah swt surely guides sincere seekers .

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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calvindamenace View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 February 2010 at 8:00pm
Originally posted by seekshidayath seekshidayath wrote:

Well, Martha and calvin, there's no direct command of Allah swt in the Qur'an about dogs to be eaten. {Am sorry for giving a senseless example, as i was reading of dogs in Islam yesterday, so holded that in my mind }

Well, there's no direct command not to eat a dog but there's one for a pig, right? I doubt that it was forgotten to mention such for a dog. And then hadith all of a sudden make dogs.. Not clean? Show me in Quran where it says that they are not clean animals. Thank you.

What i intended to say, there are many such things in the Qur'an of which Qur'an is not direct. Very simple example is of salah. Qur'an commands us for salah while hadith explain us how to offer salah. I was trying to explain you all that.

We come back to this question so many times... Are you saying Quran is incomplete? Remind you, I wasn't muslim for long before these questions came, but I promise you I'll look in on subject of salah and answer you as soon as possible.

Regarding contradictions, for example these days i was debating over permissibility of celebration of Prophet's birthday in Islam. There is variation of views . Scholars contradict. Both the types, prove from Qur'an and sunnah, as its permissible and not permissible. What to do in that case.We can take up any ruling, that which we feel is correct. We shud not follow our desires. But there's an insight within us, and Allah swt knows us very well. If we are true seekers, we will get true guidance from Allah swt.

And how many are there such examples? How many times are you going to rely on someone instead on relying on God's word?

At matters where Qur'an and Sunnah are absolutely silent, and when we take up any ruling from the scholar, which we feel it appropriate, and which are much closer to Quran and sunnah, then we are not questioned by Allah swt for that. Nor, is it a sin. Allah swt surely guides sincere seekers .

Sample, what if a scholar tells it is permissible to have an oral sex with my wife and I find it ok with me because I do believe it's ok, but at the end when I come in front of Almighty it is sin? If you can't have a 100% assurance on what is sin and what is not with a book of God!! and have to guide yourself by guessing or relying on someone's opinion, then what kind of a "clear path" are we talking about here? And may I ask you, who told you that you are not going to be questioned by Allah for taking up rulings made up by scholars? How do you know it wouldn't be a sin? Show me such thing in Quran.


Edited by calvindamenace - 24 February 2010 at 6:51am
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martha View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 February 2010 at 12:55am
Salams Seeks,

It is interesting that you mentioned salat in your above post as an example that the Qur'an is not very direct on this matter(thus us needing hadith as a back-up)

I do not agree. We already know that all religious practices came from Abraham (ie salat, fasting,zakat and hajj)We should assume then that Muhammed and the believers were all ready well aquainted with practicing salat correctly. So it would not have been necessary to have the actual practice(ritual) revealed in the Qur'an.
Salat WAS revealed in the Qur'an for the purpose of the idolatrous Quraishi to observe the salat. ( were they then offering salat incorrectly and needed reproving? I assume that would be the case)

And again,after Muhammed died(when Islam changed and followers split into sects) did we have different versions of salat. ANd that continues today.

Muhammed never at any time in his daily life needed to instruct the people how to do the salat( not that I am aware of) We can read in the Qur'an that Muhammed had no other duty than to reveal the Qur'an.
He was the messenger , not the guardian/protector/keeper/watcher. (Qu'ran 42:48)

So, in matters where Qur'an is seemingly silent we should consider that everything was already known to the people. THe Qur'an is perfect..we should not add to it. NOr do we take anything away from it.

Again, regarding celebrating the Prophet's birthday. I would not consider that to be important enough to have scholars debating over it.

And if we are not questioned by Allah for following wrong hadiths I cannot see how we are accountable for not following hadiths. If in doubt, don't do it. Isn't that the best advice for a believer?

We do agree on one thing here Seeks..that ALlah surely guides sincere seekers. :) May He guide us all.


some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set
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seekshidayath View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 February 2010 at 6:10pm
Originally posted by martha martha wrote:

 
We already know that all religious practices came from Abraham (ie salat, ZAKAH
 
Is it ? Can you kindly quote that ayah ?
 
 We should assume then that Muhammed and the believers were all ready well aquainted with practicing salat correctly.
 
My question was when Quran orders us to do salah, how shud we do it, when we are not to follow the teachings of Muhammad. Quran does n't teach us to do salah, as the way we do it , right ?
 
Salat WAS revealed in the Qur'an for the purpose of the idolatrous Quraishi to observe the salat. ( were they then offering salat incorrectly and needed reproving? I assume that would be the case)
 
How can you say that salah was revealed with that purpose ? I don't want assumptions. I need backup from the only source you believe in, i.e Qur'an.
 

And again,after Muhammed died(when Islam changed and followers split into sects) did we have different versions of salat. ANd that continues today.
 
Is it Smile


Muhammed never at any time in his daily life needed to instruct the people how to do the salat( not that I am aware of)
 
Kindly add - Peace be upon him or sallal lahu alayhi wasallam, after Prophet's name.  And Prophet instructed believers to offer salah as they see him doing.
 
We can read in the Qur'an that Muhammed had no other duty than to reveal the Qur'an.
He was the messenger , not the guardian/protector/keeper/watcher. (Qu'ran 42:48)
 
You can also get to read these ayaat
 
Say (O beloved Prophet, to mankind): If you love Allah, then follow me; Allah will love you and forgive you your sins, and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. (3:31)
 
Indeed in the (Prophetic) Messenger of Allah you have an excellent example for him whose hope is in Allah and the Last Day and remembers Allah much. (33:21)
 
The saying of the believers when summoned to Allah and His (Prophetic) Messenger that he may judge between them is only that they say: We hear and we obey. And they are the successful. (24:51)
 
O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the (Prophetic) Messenger and those in authority from amongst you, then if you have a dispute concerning any matter, refer it to Allah and the (Prophetic) Messenger if you believe in Allah and the Last Day. That is better and very good in the end. (4:59)


So, in matters where Qur'an is seemingly silent we should consider that everything was already known to the people.
 
What about us, the muslims living after Prophet ? I shall not trust people around me if they really practicising the way Prophet did. Also, you don't want me to lookin sunnah {hadith}.
 
 
THe Qur'an is perfect..we should not add to it. NOr do we take anything away from it.
 
Qur'an is PERFECT. NOR ARE WE TO ADD ANYTHING OR GO AGAINST IT. By following hadith, we are infact practicisng the command of Allah in Qur'an, wherein we are asked to take Prophet as or Ideal, and we are asked to obey the messenger. Let me make it loud and clear, though already you did read it,  that by following hadith am not going against Qur'an and infact by rejecting sunnah, one is going against the commands of Allah swt.


Again, regarding celebrating the Prophet's birthday. I would not consider that to be important enough to have scholars debating over it.
 
Its important for me as a believer to be alert of every act i do and the belief i hold. I would consider every act of mine important for all of us accountable for what we do.

And if we are not questioned by Allah for following wrong hadiths I cannot see how we are accountable for not following hadiths. If in doubt, don't do it. Isn't that the best advice for a believer?
 
We are accountable for not following the hadith. Its like one who is rejecting the hadith is infact rejecting Qur'an. When Allah commands to obey messenger {many times in Qur'an}, how do you obey messsenger , when you don't look at hadith ?


We do agree on one thing here Seeks..that ALlah surely guides sincere seekers. :) May He guide us all.
 
Ameen


Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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calvindamenace View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 February 2010 at 7:23am
I hope I'm going to get an answer to my post too.
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seekshidayath View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 February 2010 at 7:29am
 
Can you post that question directly, Uri.
 
Those posts above were addressed to both of you.
Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 February 2010 at 7:32am
 
I wish Uri and Martha to read this link, {kindly}
 
Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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