The Great Jihad ?

 Gulliver :

I think Jesus is saying that those seeking signs and wonders are more interested in signs and wonders than in truly knowing God for God Himself. The faith/service/love of God is not pure - it's adulterated.

Thanks for quoting. It must mean the lack of pureness. In the time of all prophets unbelievers demanded signs but some of them did not believe even after seeing the signs.

38Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.

 39But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

 40For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

These verses interest me because Massih (as) is talking about one specific and very important sign: the prophet Jonas (as) and the Son of man. It would be interesting to find out the message behind these verses.

Another interesting point is that in Islam we have one Surah in Quran named Jonas and I just checked it and it starts this way:

Quran (10:1,2): A.L.R. These are the ayats of the Book of Wisdom. Is it a matter of wonderment to men that We have revealed Our inspiration to a man from among themselves?- that he should warn mankind (of their danger), and give the good news to the Believers? Tthey have before their Lord the lofty rank of truth. (But) say the Unbelievers: "This is indeed an evident sorcerer!"

I didn't mean it in a negative way. It's what draws anyone to that place of inner contemplation  - the 'holy place' where God meets us. Like Moses in the cave too.

That is right. I just wanted to stress on the difference here.

Same could be said of the bible Myaha. But then there are all the claims of corruption to deal with, and the arguments and counter arguments on that issue.

These claims of corruption are right. There is no doubt that the level of historical authenticity of Quran (which is word by word and 100%) can not be compared to Bible. This is a very clear issue. Nevertheless, Lets only assume that there has been no corruption in Bible as well. So what? Could it be a reason to believe in Bible but not in Quran?

On the other hand, if I understood properly, you were saying that Mohammad s.a.w.a. might have dictated Quran from whatever he had heard in the society about God, religion, preceding prophets, Bible and so on. But Mohammad s.a.w.a. had been brought up and lived inside those people for 40 years. Do you think it is easy to trick all of them by feeding back to them the same hearings and they did not understand it and accepted them as Holy words of God? Is it reasonable? Can you show us a similar example in the history of human being? Furthermore, Could you have the same idea about the prophets before him like Isa (as), Moses (as) and the others with their books?

What you're saying above is it's all a matter of faith. But the question is, faith in what - in whom. That's what I am trying to find out. 

It is faith in our creator, the creator of everything. He loves us and so cares about us. You and all other normal human being (as created beings of the creator) care about their children in their home, don�t they? so the creator does care about His created being. It is faith in His prophets who are sent from Him to guide us towards Him.

Gulliver, you are not a single point in space moving in an aimless chaotic manner. You, as a human being, are coming from a long history. Humans along this history line were not st**id to be tricked easily by a few of them called prophets. One has to think more about the truth with their pure heart and make decision before getting so late.

I'd love to know what Jesus said to the children.  How was Muhammad with children ? Any records of anything he said to children ? :-)

There are many stories in history about the relations between Mohammad s.a.w.a. and children. He always was the first to say greetings (Salaams) to everyone even children. He also used to play with them.

The Prophet of Islam has stated that �If you like someone, express your feelings to them. This expression of love brings you closer to each other." (Mustadrak al-wasail,v 2, p. 67). The Prophet used to play with his children and grand children every morning expressing his love and affection for them. (Mustadrak al-wasail,v 104, p. 99)

There is an online book about upbringing of children in Islam and how it is recommended to behave with them. You can find it here:

http://www.al-islam.org/upbringing

God bless and guide all of us,
With Salaams


Edited by myahya - 31 October 2008 at 7:12am

Faith in what/whom ? For me, it's faith in God. That's all I have ever had and have now. All the rest for the most part just confuses me most of the time and distracts me from what is important. Prayer in all its forms and the doing of God's will - the love and service of others - family, friends and society.

I know what you mean here Myaha. I was just referring to the odd day. When you are sick and tired of trying to sort out truth from fiction in any of it - all the reading and listening. So you just head off into the hills. I live not far from Donegal in Ireland. It's very beautiful there,  Donegal - called the 'garden of Irleland'. We really do have forty shades of green here :-) And it's  near the ocean which I love. You find God there as surely as in any book. I think the Qu'ran and the Bible recommend this - to see in the Creation how God exists, and is 'worshipped' in and through the existence of that very Creation. God speaks to the weary heart and soul through all of it :-)

Have to admit I agree with you again Ron.  When I say that to others, that God often seems like an awful tryant and not unconditionally loving at all -  I am told that God is perfectly 'just' too.  That punishment is due for disobedience/sin.  I have asked before here, and I always ask - what is 'justice'. A few miserly years in this world and we inherit 'eternal' damnation. That's not a loving God at all. If there is a God, I think that it's about learning - and we are allowed to learn from mistakes. We have 'eternity' for God's sake.