Arranged-Marriage Series |
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Shasta'sAunt
Senior Member Female Joined: 29 March 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1930 |
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"Dating I does lead to intimacy, that's the whole point."
"this is your opinion but not universal. If I meet a woman my intention is to get to know her more than simply an acquaintance. Now, if our behavior becomes more intimate its a plus but for mature adult relationships whether friend, boyfriend/girlfriend or even marriage it usually begins with both consenting adults simply getting to know one another."
I am confused here. When I wrote that the whole point of dating is intimacy you said that was my opinion, yet apparently it's also your opinion...
Edited by Shasta'sAunt - 16 February 2009 at 5:11am |
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�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt |
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Hyposonic
Senior Member Joined: 17 November 2008 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 247 |
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Chrysalis
Before I respond to you, so that you know, to reference a research article especially one that relates to this issue, forms of research require the following a) An abstract-Introduction b) Methods Section c) Results Section d) Discussion. I checked out your references USA Today, Faqs.org and Dr. Phil. All are not reliable sources. The reason those elements are important are because of the process of ruling bias and error, well, true behavioral scientific reseacrh does. Although your references are interesting I have many questions regarding their findingd that are too lenghty to mention. The following would be a proper research article to reference to support your argument :
Not only does it have the above bold but it has a discussion where it explains what they find (in lamens terms) and whether or not their hypothesis was supported. Dr. Phil is NOT and I repeat is NOT even liked in some psychologist circles. What he says is nice and some are helpful but he has made some HUGE errors that has lost him respect among professionals.
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Hyposonic
Senior Member Joined: 17 November 2008 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 247 |
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"Are you seriously suggesting that it takes an average of 12 yrs to find a spouse?"
I never said that, where did you get that from?
"People date for companionship, fun, passing time . . . and yes, also for finding a spouse."
Such as what I was saying in my previous posts. If you read back I said people date for a variety of reasons and such ought to be taken on a case by case analysis depending on the individual. We cannot speculate one main reason(s). We can say a, b, and c, are some of the reasons why people date but all we are basing this on is our own experiences and as such, it remains to be an opinion not a FACT.
"All I am saying is that "marriage" is not seriously in the dating scene, until a person attains the age of lets say, 20? (I'm bieng generous)."
I understand you are biased (as you have admitted) and if you are referring to America and/or Britain I'll take that statement as an opinion not FACT. Again, whatever the reasons are from 18 age (because by law one is considered an adult according to the American legal system) and up for adults ought to be taken on a case by case basis. I again say I wouldn't doubt some of those elements exist in dating.
"Yes there are a variety of reasons behind dating, Marriage is one of them. Yet it is not the primary reason for dating. However, I am willing to concur that it may be the primary reason for dating - for the average middle aged adult."
Speculation maybe?
"I based my assumptions (ppl are not ready for marriage until 30) on the following stats:"
As I mentioned USA Today is not even a researched based magazine. Anyone can make research and sell it to a magazine as "truthful" but little do people know that some research has the possibilities of error. Because the average person may not understand scientific "lingo" they will get reseacrh articles that reflect some of the behaviors exhibited in that society. However what you should know is just because it claims to be research doesn't mean its entirely valid given the possibility of error (<.05%). When I normally read so-called research findings from USA today or yahoo, I look at their references and I search the article out and read it because research articles in USA Today may not put the entire research article. I hope this helps and makes sense.
"What does that say about arranged marriages??? How does it repress sexual behaviour?"
Well for one, as mentioned to me previously a woman and a man cannot be alone, and this done to control the potentiality of pre-martial sex, and/or the possibility that parties would engage in sinful behavior. I was even told on the spiritual side of it, the devil is always an unwed man and woman when they are alone. Now, correct me if I'm wrong as I am still learning Islam but a true woman is covered and is not showing any "sexual" aspects about her so as to control the possibilities of a man falling into sin and so forth. So if she, the Wali (or what I call mediator) and the man are at dinner the prospective male cannot really be physically attracted to her because her face and other parts of her aren't shown (is this dependent upon cultural interpretation of hijab?).
What I call sexual repression is that all the elements that are associated with natural human function are excluded. For instances, a woman's neck, eyes, hands, legs, and even smell are attractive and sexual parts on her body, but this doesn't mean she or the man will have sex. Now of course I'm not saying Islamic law does this with the intent to harm people but perhaps this law was implemented at a time where behavior was rampant who knows. As a human I'm attracted to the whole body of a woman however, there are things that humans naturally repress themselves based off culture. For example if I happen to be talking to a woman who has her face covered I and I'm talking with her in the interest of marriage I may find this odd but that is because I'm neither Muslim nor raise in the culture. I hope this long winded paragraph made sense.
"Its so not a random generalisation! You disagree that the average 'dater' dates approx. 4-5 ppl before settling down?"
If there is validity in research I wouldn't disagree, I just disagree with how you are presenting them.
"By biased, I mean what you might percieve to be biased."
When you use I, me, we, it ceases to be an objective opinion. Therefore it is biased just like my opinions, but thanks for the info they were good reads!
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Hyposonic
Senior Member Joined: 17 November 2008 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 247 |
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Chrysalis
Let me say thank you for taking your time in doing that. Although I'm not particular not fond of those types of references let me acknowledge your work and your time. I again thank you for this. They were vey good and interesting reads BTW. I do not doubt there is some truth in what you are saying, and it would be wrong of me to deny those possibilities.
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Hyposonic
Senior Member Joined: 17 November 2008 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 247 |
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"I think you are equating intimacy with sexual activity. They are not the same thing at all."
Ok, well maybe that is my error but people commonly use interchangable words and sexual activity and intimacy or being intimate is not different. conducting sexual activity is commonly
"2 : something of a personal or private nature"
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Hyposonic
Senior Member Joined: 17 November 2008 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 247 |
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"I am confused here. When I wrote that the whole point of dating is intimacy you said that was my opinion, yet apparently it's also your opinion..."
From how you presented it, it sounded like it was primarily sex. Perhaps it was my misunderstanding. But how you presented it, you put a negative connotation on it.
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Hayfa
Senior Member Female Joined: 07 June 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2368 |
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HYposonic, how many teenagers do you know? Do you hand around them? When were you last around college age kids?? Do you now how young people think these days? Its not about getting married at 22... not typically. lol Of course a few will marrry but come on.. lol
Its very interesting you brough up dress code.. and how can a man "know" its interesting to think that some men don't see 'much' and yet consent to marry. And its interesting that the looks of a woman are important but generally people, if they are good Muslimsshould go beyond that. And in societies that women are not running aruond 'half-naked" men cannot be out and 'shopping" by comparing.
And beleive it or not the abaya (long black robe type of garment) and the niqab is actually quite erotic.
When i was in a bus between cities in Pakistan I sat next to a young woman (20 or so) who wore full niqab. I spend 3+ hours i a great conversation with her. And let me tell you.. the eyes said it all.. lol
I think also that the dress code really can build a bond between spouses as it really makes a relationship special for both men and women.
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When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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abuayisha
Senior Member Muslim Joined: 05 October 1999 Location: Los Angeles Status: Offline Points: 5105 |
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"And beleive it or not the abaya (long black robe type of garment) and the niqab is actually quite erotic.
When i was in a bus between cities in Pakistan I sat next to a young woman (20 or so) who wore full niqab. I spend 3+ hours i a great conversation with her. And let me tell you.. the eyes said it all.. lol"
Excuse me - come again; you're kidding right?
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