How to NOT categorize women

Israfil wrote: You say that the African-american culture is dysfunctional.

I don't know how to fix this problem. Can an individual do anything about it?

The scriptures say that Abraham pretty much managed to row against the mainstream on his own. But even then, Sarah and Hagar stuck by him. So, he wasn't completely on his own. Apparently, it must somehow be possible to row against the mainstream, with just one individual nuclear family. At least you don't need to re-discover the truth. The Quran exists already.

And how do you keep the kids out of the mainstream? That's hard too. It requires fanatical commitment, in absence of a community. Anyway, the mainstream is going to do everything possible to prevent you from achieving your goal. I think Abraham managed to escape that problem somehow. There was no United States of America around at that time. That helped too, of course.

And who are the kids going to marry? That's another problem. If the other parents just followed the mainstream, the problem will just have been delayed to the next generation.

The bureaucratic western states need to lose their ability to interfere in the family, pretty soon, or one day or the other we will all be hosed. Or at least, they need to lose the ability to occupy other countries.

The African-Americans have nothing to lose by keeping on trying. I understand the enormous difficulties in their given circumstances.

Crass this thread is getting out of hand and this will be my last post here in this thread so you choose to respond. Obviously you have your way of thinking but I "think" your type of thinking is quite backwards and I consider it highly unintellectual since, majority of your post are simply rhetorical and opinionated. The references you pointed out in your post were not even current let alone relevant to the current topic. Anyway the following is my resonse to you. Your post will be in blue

If marriage does not work any longer, a culture is dysfunctional, because that means you cannot raise the kids any longer, and therefore, long-term survival from generation to generation is impossible. I've already shown the evidence that marriage doesn't work amongst African-Americans.

You "know" the evidence? If I were to assume this comment was religious then I would boil this down to a personal interpretation but, to attribute the failure of sustaining traditional marriages as a form of a dysfunction of a culture is quite st**id. Like I said in my previous post, there are many factors that contribute to African-American family. Poverty, Racism, Classism, Sexism are all factors that contribute to the other areas of ethnic strife. Ever heard of "Domino Effect?" Besides, you're not even African-American so how can you possibly make a critique on how "dysfunctional" African-American families are? My family certainly was not perfect but we weren't dysfunctional so I guess that defeats your assumption there.... OH and yes, I know more non-dysfunctional black families that are quite successful. You might need to do your anthropology research again.

I am not pointing to contributions to the scientific world, because they don't matter in the long run. Religion is not about making contributions to science. It is about submitting to the One God as a survival strategy.

The beginning part was st**id and the latter was even more st**id! contributions matter greatly. The very light you use to read your books [or whatever] was a desgin which benefits all humans. The discovery of fire by the early ancestors became the blueprint for later discoveries of the physical world. All scientific contributions matter greatly because it sets a mark in human greatness. Also, submitting to one God does not mean survival. That is dumb. Humans were surviors prior to being cognizant of One God. Why do you think we have the instincts we have? God designed the body to endure in the religious and non-religious alike. So as far as surviving is conerned I'm not sure what you are talking about.

That amounts to saying: you have not looked at the reasons why the car is broken. You just keep saying that it is broken. Without looking at the reasons why the car is broken, saying that the car is broken does not make sense...

Again the same argument. Without looking at the reasons why there is less AIDS in Muslim countries than in Christian countries in Africa, it is wrong to say that there is less AIDS in Muslim countries ...

You are seriously going to mislead Muslims who have no idea what an epidemic is. Examining the sociological factors in Africa does greatly explain why AIDs is so rampant in Africa. If, a young Sudanese girl gets raped by a man who has AIDS yet, does not get examined for fear of backlash from her family and society she may, indirectl[because she doesn't know she has an STD] contribute to the continuance of AIDS. If you have African tribes who believe condoms are "evil" and believe that unprotected sex is the answer to such an evil you will have the continuance of AIDS. If PEOPLE are not educated in sexually transmitted diseases you will have the continuance of AIDS. I don't see how you don't think that is relevant. there are many tribes in Africa who are not aware that AIDs is becoming an epidemic.

BTW Sudan is predominantly Muslim country and there are many there that have AIDS so, when discussing Muslim countries are you talking about Non-African countries?

Unlike causality, you don't need to prove correlation. Correlation is there or it isn't there. I demonstrated correlation, and now you are complaining that I did not demonstrate causality. By the way, you cannot demonstrate causality with numbers. You need an underlying theory.

Do you even have a clue what I was talking about? When I'm talking about correlation I'm asking how does being Christian relate to having a sexually transmitted disease? Like I said African Christians are not even the most populous of the Christian faith so when you generalize as say "Christian" you seem to be talking about Christians in general yet, you refer to Africa as a reference.

Quite unfortunately for your argument, piety and chastity is what the Quran says matters most in terms of marriage and marriage success. The Quran is the "theory" that explains causality. By the way, the other scriptures say the same.

Reference?

That's a contradiction in terms. As a pious person you avoid violating the moral rules enshrined in religion. Doing evil amounts to violating these rules.

The concept of piety is subjective. Piety is about being devout, or following a conventional belief or standard. Now for example let's say Adolf Hitler gassing millions of Jews. In his mind [According to his book Mein Kampf] he saw Jews as a disease and thought [in a sick utilitarian way] that the extermination of an entire race of Jews would increase the quality of life for his people. So in the mind of Hitler he was following a conventional standard which he thought was good and thought was a benefit to his people. Again, like I said piety is subjective. Even suicide bombers believer killing oneself and killing the enemy is a "Halal" military tactic that is Islamically acceptable. Again piety is subjective and not some abstract objective term that is universal.

Very interesting, Israfil. An atheist violates the first rule of piety: faith in God.

But if we hold piety under the concept as being a "conventional belief or standard of being faithful" an atheist can be under these terms. If an atheist lives in a society without harming someone yet does the opposite by helping others and increase the happiness of others that person is said to be "pious" because they are following the conventional standard of society, and in this case, the standard of such a society would be to not harm others with malice and intent. It seems you are using piety in the context as the quality of being "good" when that wouldn't be the correct definition of piety.

Abu the poo poo said:

What a twisted YMCA liberal law enforcement thinking!!!!. I wonder how IC moderators give you blank pass to spew this nonsense in would be Islamic medium!!!. I really wonder how and why?!! May its liberal faith affirmative action that they want to show west on the xpense of real Islam. 

Wow your IQ is what, 15? 20? Ok Ok, 35......I see Crass' mentality is rubbing off on you it seems we are making up words now see: >>>twisted YMCA liberal law enforcement thinking!!!!.<<<< Abu, if you only go back to school and brush up on your English you would at least sound as smart as my 5-year old cousin.

 

 

[QUOTE=Israfil]

BTW Sudan is predominantly Muslim country and there are many there that have AIDS so, when discussing Muslim countries are you talking about Non-African countries?<

??!!!!.

 

  >Abu the poo poo said:<

How many more insults you want to spew out here. I can take it as much as you want but you prove my point. Since you don't know Islam you must refuge this kind of sick language. You don't  lack  Islamic manner but also human civility. Why staying in this medium?!!!. You are shame to Islam by spewing this low language. No wonder why law enforcement hire you to do community policing!!!!!!. If there was an Islamic court you will whipped out publically and been sent to islamic rehab program.

 

>What a twisted YMCA liberal law enforcement thinking!!!!. I wonder how IC moderators give you blank pass to spew this nonsense in would be Islamic medium!!!. I really wonder how and why?!! May its liberal faith affirmative action that they want to show west on the xpense of real Islam. 

>Wow your IQ is what, 15? 20? Ok Ok, 35......<

 So you believe IQ fake reading?. What a waste?!!!. You should be  believing also Pyschic crime solvers too. Poor brother.

>I see Crass' mentality is rubbing off on you it seems we are making up words now see: >>>twisted YMCA liberal law enforcement thinking!!!!.<<<< Abu, if you only go back to school and brush up on your English you would at least sound as smart as my 5-year old cousin<.

 

 Don't bring Crass name here. You can't measure up his extensive readings. May Allah give you clean tongue. BTW....please read Riyadul saliheen to brush up your character. You are losing your Islam -if you are really muslim- and soul in this mix. Your ignorance and arrogance is beyond reach.  

Final note: Many African American muslims were diciplined by Nation of Islam schools. They have good character but few like you went astray. Just go back to Imam Warithudeen classes in you area to learn about real manner. I'm sure they will be more than happy to assist you. You can't fit this medium with such language even if they gave you greenlight.  

 Abu Mujahid

Whisper wrote: Brother Israfil I propose we should ask the admin to set up a separate wing of this forum for the under 13s or are stuck at that mental age. But then what we will laugh at? These two are the best laugh I have ever had here. Each beats even our good old Community! just on his very own. Imagine what act the two make.

Great idea.....