The Great Jihad ?

Ron: Well, if I have to explain to you that the word "if" introduces a hypothetical or conditional clause, or that the phrase "used to" means past tense, then I have no hope of explaining that "meticulous" does not mean true or historically accurate.  So I give up.

Thank you for correcting my grammatical mistake. I had to say �they have this habit�. However, it clears more what I was going to say. Meticulous means extremely precise. I used �if� condition to say that if Quran is meticulous beside you (as you already claimed), then why do you need another reference to support it? If you say it is extremely precise but historically not accurate, then in such a mixture I feel having no hope of understanding what you really believe in. May be first you have to go to historians and ask about the accuracy of Quran.

Ron: First of all, "the hour is approached" is an obvious reference to the Hour of Judgement, marking the passage as allegorical, not literal.

This sentence is allegorical and one of its references can be the Day of Judgment. To this extent I agree. However, it does not make the whole passage allegorical. It depends on the next sentences. �The moon split� is an obvious literal sentence reporting an event in a simple past tense. It means that the event happened in the past for sure. It may happen again on the Day of Judgment, but the sentence says that it also happened before that day. It happened at the time of Mohammad (s.a.w.a) and people were witnesses, otherwise people would ask him to give historical evidences for such an event happening at the past time.

Ron: Second, "the moon split" is an astonishingly terse comment if it represents an actual event.  Surely such a momentous occasion as an actual miracle would deserve more than a mere three words. 

I am sorry. This is an emotion rather than argument.

Ron: Third, the Quran says "if they see a miracle", not "when they saw the miracle", which again shows it to be hypothetical. 

It shows that the passage is about a miracle rather than a natural or geographical event. It is not in the past tense because many unbelievers used to deny the miracles. It was not the first nor the last time that unbelievers deny.

Ron: You may also note that the phrase is similar to several other passages in the Quran where it is explained that Muhammad did not perform miracles

No verse in Quran shows it, while the reverse is clearly shown:

Quran (61:6) And remember Jesus, the son of Mary, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the Messenger of Allah (sent) to you confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving glad Tidings of an Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." But when he came to them with Clear Signs they said "This is evident sorcery!"

Note that the above verse support miracles for Mohammad (s.a.w.a) while the unbelievers say it is magic.

Ron: If you could find an historical report of the splitting of the moon from independent observers elsewhere on the planet (and surely someone would have noticed and commented on such a remarkably sight!) then that would be interesting.

There is a report from king of India, you can find the references on the web. Personally, I am not sure how much is the historical validity of this report. However, I am not interested at all, to me it doesn�t necessitate that an independent report should exist in history supporting Quran, while Quran is a meticulous document. If Quran is meticulous, why do you need independent report?

On the other hand: First, how do you prove someone must have noticed? Second, if we assume there is no report how it shows you that no one saw it, the reports might be removed through the history. 

Ron: There are plenty of ancient books, both orally transmitted and original manuscripts, that are as old or older.

Ron: Such as?

Quran (54.1-3) The hour is approached and the moon split.  And if they see a miracle they turn aside and say: �Continuous Magic!�  And they call (it) a lie, and follow their low desires; and every affair has its appointed term.

The miracle of the splitting of the moon was demonstrated before a certain gathering who persisted in denial of Muhammad�s Prophethood. As was related by �Adbullah ibn Mas�ud, while they were in Mina� one night, the Prophet split the moon into two by a gesture of his index finger. The halves of the moon appeared one behind the mountain and the other in front of it. Then, the Prophet turned to us and said: �Be witnesses!

Ron: Well, at least Jesus (why do you call him Isa, by the way?) performed a number of miracles that would be objective evidence to those who witnessed them.

In Quran his name is Isa and Massih so I prefer to use these words. However, what is the meaning of the word �Jesus�? Who has invented it for Massih (as)? Anyway, the above miracle was objective, wasn�t it?

Ron: If accounts of those miracles had been as meticulously recorded and preserved as the Quran then I might find them persuasive. 

The accounts of the miracles and events in Islam are apparently much more and some of them have been recorded from many different and independent historical lines, they are called �Motevater� means so recurrent or continual that they are convincing. They are more convincing when the reports are from those who did not benefit from those events materially.

Ron: I am inclined to agree with you.  But what makes you think they were prophets?

I can say History + Wisdom (or Intellect). However, in another view the answer is Allah s.w.t. One who has created me and sent the prophets and meticulously preserved a book after 1400 years (an objective miracle itself). We have the duty to have the pure desire to know the truth and search for it. The rest is in the hands of one who knows our desires and guides us.