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AhmadJoyia View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AhmadJoyia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2005 at 6:08am

Originally posted by Daniel Dworsky Daniel Dworsky wrote:


No mention of hell or heaven. a couple of angels in OT Book one but
that's about it. ...

This is again new to me. But then what is the concept of life after death in Judaism especially without any concept of hell or heaven? And if there is no "life after death" then what is the purpose of this life on earth with Judaism? I think the more I am getting to know about it, the more I am getting confused about this so called "oldest monotheistic" religion on earth. Nevertheless your responses are amazingly different than what I thought before about Judaism, but ofcourse need to continue more on it. Thanks for your patience on my surprises and replies.

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blond View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blond Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2005 at 6:16am

Originally posted by Daniel Dworsky Daniel Dworsky wrote:

 Everything after the Ten Commandments I take as a suggestion. There is npo evidence of people wandering 40 years in the Sinai not so much as one artifact has been found. Hmmmmmm.

I have heard that Moses' kabbalism (or esoteric knowledge laced with witchcraft) which he first learnt as a Pharoah in trainning (or Prince of Egypt), was reinforced by the teachings of his father-in-law, Jethro, the renowned Ethiopian magician. Moses adopted his Ten Commandments from the ancient 147 Egyptian laws called the ' Negative Confessions,' and gave the Hebrews credit for African customs, some already quite ancient during his time. One classic example was the adoption of the rite of circumcision, an Egyptian custom, thousands of years old by Moses' day.

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Daniel Dworsky View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Daniel Dworsky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2005 at 1:26pm
Originally posted by AhmadJoyia AhmadJoyia wrote:

Originally posted by Daniel Dworsky Daniel Dworsky wrote:

No mention of
hell or heaven. a couple of angels in OT Book one but that's about it.
...


This is again new to me. But then what is the concept of life after
death in Judaism especially without any concept of hell or heaven?
And if there is no "life after death" then what is the purpose of this
life on earth with Judaism? I think the more I am getting to know
about it, the more I am getting confused about this so called "oldest
monotheistic" religion on earth. Nevertheless your responses are
amazingly different than what I thought before about Judaism, but
ofcourse need to continue more on it. Thanks for�your patience on
my surprises and replies.



Okay, This is why we don't even bother to convert people.
Allah is the name Muslims give God when I talk to Muslims I refer to
God as Allah. I enjoy this because in Judaism God is with out Name
or image. We aren't given encouraged or even allowed to think about
god as having a physical visual or aural image. At least not as a
group. Death is something to be avoided and killing of any kind is
absolutely forbidden. Why did my soldiers kill three Palestinian boys
yesterday? Your guess is as good as mine. it has nothing to do with
Judaism. It's not so much that there is no heaven or hell as much as
they are irrelavent and unmentioned. The message is that life is
temporary and precious we are to learn to behave well and do good
deeds. We leave heaven if there is a heaven to God and Angels and
concentrate on the here and now Story tellers and Children speak of
heaven.
Satan is only mentioned in the book of Job which is basically ancient
hebrew literature.
At five I was told that there was no heaven and it tore me up for a
while. I miss so many people and it hurts my feelings to think that
all they were and all they would have been is snuffed out forever.
It's a problem in Judaism. Just when you thought that circumsision
was the worse thing you'll ever experience they hit you with this.

Hassidic Judaism is another story they've really got it made. they
have an answer for everything and believe in more things than 9 Gay
Southern Californians in a Navaho sweat lodge.
How the...?
I'm a musician I hear things
   

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Daniel Dworsky View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Daniel Dworsky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2005 at 1:46pm
Blond Hi,

According to the OT that I was
taught as a jew:
1.) Jethro was Druze
2.)The Cabbalah was thrown together thousands of years after Moses
3.) Abraham and God concocted Circumsision.
It might have found it's way back to africa with the Menashe tribe
after the dispersion Some Ethiopians claim Zion and an Ancient
Jewish heritage. (In my opinion they can have it... Yes, My son is
circumsised but I was conflicted about it...
EDIT:
NOTE: at this point I became mildly stuffy and rude and Blond I
apologize .
You didn't have that coming at all I was still dizzy with frustration
over the resent news here in Israel and Rhemats expert version of
Judaism.

Edited by Daniel Dworsky
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AhmadJoyia View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AhmadJoyia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2005 at 4:12pm

Originally posted by Daniel Dworsky Daniel Dworsky wrote:


........ Death is something to be avoided and killing of any kind is
absolutely forbidden.

(I am assuming death of an human being. right?) But who said so and from where? Is it in OT, if not, then by Israel's state law? Secondly what about scraficial animals. why the ritual is necessary? Or why was it being practiced if not now?

Originally posted by Daniel Dworsky Daniel Dworsky wrote:

 
Satan is only mentioned in the book of Job which is basically ancient
hebrew literature.

Oh, really! Then what about the complete story of Adam, eve, and the satan? Isn't it in OT?

Ok! then what do you mean by this statement. Judaism doesn't consider Satan an entity in the equation of life and death?

 

Originally posted by Daniel Dworsky Daniel Dworsky wrote:


........It's a problem in Judaism. Just when you thought that circumsision
was the worse thing you'll ever experience they hit you with this.

I really couldn't understand your problem description? Probably you mean to say there absence of the concept of 'hell' is a problem. But I tell you, you have put me in ever greater problem to understand what are you trying to convey.  Then who is "they" to hit you to undergo circumsision. I don't understand your last sentence in here.

 

Originally posted by Daniel Dworsky Daniel Dworsky wrote:



Hassidic Judaism is another story they've really got it made. they
have an answer for everything and believe in more things than 9 Gay
Southern Californians in a Navaho sweat lodge.
How the...?
I'm a musician I hear things 
   

O really! so which Judaism have we been talking about all this long?. I mean, What do we call that you have been describing.

 Do they (the Hassidics) have anything to believe in the heaven and the hell. From where do they get their knowledge if not from OT?

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Daniel Dworsky View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Daniel Dworsky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 April 2005 at 9:24pm
Adam and Eve -people
The serpent-    -a serpent (demon?) not Satan

The laws of Noa (fail safe for the ten commandments) forbid the
killing of animals as well

The Hassidim are a new religion they claim the Lubavicha Rebbi to be
the Messiah. The man is DEAD but they are still weaiting for him to
get well. They get their beliefs from you and the christians.
That's not a bad thing but they are what the world see's as being
jews. They have great parties and they solve more problems than
they make. In Israel they are not appreciated because they don't work
and they don't serve.

If you read the OT you see a gradual change in the character of god.
God grows up from a childish jealous cranky sort of eye level entity
to a more mature laid back sort of spiritual Parent.
Allah stops smiting multitudes people and giving good advice.

We all keep embellishing with tradition legend and writtings.

What I am describing is Conservative and orthodox Judaisim.
I rather thought the sweat loge comment would get a laugh but
it was a bit over the line.

I hope I haven't put you off asking questions.





Edited by Daniel Dworsky
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Daniel Dworsky View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Daniel Dworsky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 April 2005 at 1:56am
Originally posted by AhmadJoyia AhmadJoyia wrote:

Originally posted by Daniel Dworsky Daniel Dworsky wrote:

........ Death is
something to be avoided and killing of any kind is absolutely
forbidden. Laws of Noa apply to animals and also to animals in the
care of humans. If an animal starves or is attacked by another animal
the owner is held responsible Noa was A vegan.


(I am assuming death of an human being. right?) But who said so
and from where? Is it in OT, if not, then by Israel's state law?
Secondly what about scraficial animals. why the ritual is necessary?
Or why was it being practiced if not now?



Have you ever tried to be a vegitarian? I was for a year and a half
until I started wondering what my cousin would taste like in Bernaise
sauce...

By the time moses was on tghe seen we were eating animals again.

[you mean to say there absence of the concept of 'hell' is a
problem.�But I tell you, you have put me in ever greater problem to
understand what are you trying to convey.��Then who is "they" to hit
you to undergo circumsision. I don't understand your last sentence in
here.



Sorry "THEY"   be
well you know... THEM. Okay Okay I meant the Rabbi my father in
law and 5000 years of jewish tradition that compel me to mutilate
my child for God.   It's a tribal thing.

Originally posted by Daniel 
<br />Dworsky Daniel
Dworsky wrote:


Hassidic Judaism is another story they've really got it made.
they have an answer for everything and believe in more things than 9
Gay Southern Californians in a Navaho sweat lodge. How the...? I'm a
musician I hear things     


O really! so which Judaism have we been talking about all this
long?[IMG]http://www.islamicity.com/forum/smileys/smiley9.gif[/
IMG]. I mean, What do we call that you have been describing.


�Do they (the Hassidics) have�anything to believe in the heaven and
the hell. From where do they get their knowledge if not from OT?[/
P]



Hassids have an answer for EVERYTHING

Example: The dent between your nose and your lip.

Just before you are born an angel flicks a finger on you and knocks
all the knowledge of heaven to the back of your mind. before you
were born you, I, - all of us hang out in heaven for fourty days. just
before that we were in another life on earth until we died and so on
and so on. We don't learn so much as we REMEMBER.

They got a million of these explainatioins and stories they are
childlike and innocent for the most part.

I think they are quaint.


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Daniel Dworsky View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Daniel Dworsky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 April 2005 at 5:43am
[QUOTE=herjihad]

Bismillah,


We would love to hear stories that inspire our faith in Allah.

[/
QUOTE]

I always seemed to be primed or warned before I step into an
important or dangerous moment. When I act harshly or badly I am
punished immediately and thouroughly to such an extent that my
son Joey claims "Daddy has instant Karma" when I act foolishly I am
saved by outrageous luck Examples that I am aware of:

A single wasp took a special interest in me on a hill just above
Nabalus 50 meters away an IDF corporal was playing his M16 when it
slipped off his lap and sent 5 rounds in a perfect line starting with
my foot print and ending with where my head would have been had I
not been trying to get away from this insect.

A Palestinian friend of mine from Jarjour called me to ask if I could
inquire why the IDF had placed a tank in his orchard and why settler
Children were pitching tents near the tank. Aithough the area in
question was a now "Military Area" and the Tank was placed there to
look for terrorists. I made through the perimeter because the officer
on watch recognised my face from some Educational T.V. Program
and mistook me for a visiting official. I caught the Tank
commander having tea inside the settler perimeter. 3 Trained attack
dogs ran out at me ready to strike but suddenly stopped only feet
away sat down in the dirt howling and whining and defecating as if
they were in agony. I took this opportunity to calm and pet them as
settlers Palestinians and soldiers looked on in amazement.
Even as I saw then running full out at me I had this amazing feeling
of calm and that some one had enclosed me and my friend Ibrahim
in a sort of protective bubble. I would not believe this story had I not
experienced it.

Out side of Harez in Palestine I witnessed a demonstrator had fallen
before a line of Israeli Police and had broken her wrist After I had
helped her up a 120 kilogram (260lb) Israeli police captain pushed
me from the back.
Like a total idiot I spun around and screamed at him in hebrew
Hishtagata? which means "are you nuts". Miraculously he took a step
back tripped over his own feet and took down eight policeman with
him to the ground in various stages of half saves regaining of
balance only to go all the way down to the ground sitting to laying
down (four little policemen on each side as he fell.) Even the police
were laughing.

Ever since I was little when ever someone tried to do me harm
challenge me or humiliate me. Terrible things seem to happen to
them. Accidents illness and even death. When I was little I felt guilty
in that I had somehow willed these things to happen.

Allah Akbar





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