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Hyposonic View Drop Down
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Points: 247 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hyposonic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 November 2008 at 3:53pm
Hyposonic:
Let me make it simple for (a five year old)you:
Say you need to assemble a toy gadget �.the specification calls for certain nuts and bolts be used together but some friend of yours wants to tie nut with a wire to the nut and bolt with a bolt!
I assure you that it will not fit, form or function as packaged by the designer and then you protest when your parents want to smack you on the upside of your head!LOL
 
 
 
Your inability to make comprehensible sentences is baffling, but ok.
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Hyposonic View Drop Down
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Homosexuality is indeed an abnormality since,
 
1. We're not naturally equipped for it.
 
My response: A common biological trait does make the the opposite a disorder or abnormality. Homosexuality depending on who you ask, is not about having sex. It appears that when thinking about homosexcuality it seems the first that comes to mind is the sexual nature of it.
 
 
2. What purpose does it serve besides satisfying the unnatural lust for the same gender?
 
My repsonse: What purpose does a nipple serve for malesif we cannot lactate? Again, stop thinking about sex when referring to homosexuality once you do that, perhaps you'll have a better understanding (and explanation) on the issue.
 
If it was only same gender LOVE, thats fine since we all love people of our genders in a brotherly or friendly way but making such relationships sexual is purely LUST and an unnatural one. 
 
My repsonse: Again, you haven't given a logical response as to why its implicitly wrong. Of course I accept your religious reason and that is acceptable, but as someone commenting outside that religious fold I find your response incoherent to the formulation of a valid statement. Let me remind you again that a common biological trait does not make something that which is not it, wrong. For a long time humans were hung up on the phenotype of others and we used ethnocentrism to enslave them. Now that our intellect has evolved we have unanimously consider such a practice unethical.
 
I guess I can say this because some of my friends come from diverse backgrounds and some are homosexual. When I refer to their sexual orientation I don't think of "how they do it." It is an unfortunate phenomena in the world that we put that stigma on same sex orientation and the first that comes to mind is "how they do it" or how they "lust after the same sex." Funny, we don't have that same fervor when we see primates practicing the same behavior,but then I guess we hold ourselves to a higher moral standard?
 
 
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Hyposonic View Drop Down
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Islamically there is no disagreement on whether of not homosexuality is considered wrong. It is unanimously agreed that it is wrong. There is no knowledgeable Muslim who would state that Islam teaches otherwise.
 
However Muslims, just like any other segment of the population, have their own opinions about things. There are Muslims on this forum who have been so all of their lives and those who have just accepted Islam and are learning. There is nothing wrong in questioning the tenants of Islam and seeking to understand why we believe what we believe.
 
What some people here should remember is that screaming haram at anyone who asks a question or is trying to understand is detrimental to teaching and may actually turn people away. Hazrat Aiaha said that she would continue to ask The Prophet questions about something until she fully understood it. Too bad those days are gone....
 
 
This is an acceptable response....See Sign Reader? Very easy.
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Akhe Abdullah View Drop Down
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Points: 1252 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Akhe Abdullah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 November 2008 at 6:05pm
Originally posted by Hyposonic Hyposonic wrote:

"After all, Barack does not share the history of American Blacks, his father was a Nigerian. Not an African American. His personal experiences were/are not those of the American Black's history, he has merely received this through his happenstance. Neither he nor his ancestors have lived it."
�

I utterly and sincerely disagree and I'm a white guy.

�

According to some of my African-American friends it is an unfortunate phenomena in America where someone of a mix raced when facing a racist situation will be referred as a primary ethnic group. In matters of a grand social context, it doesn't matter what Obama's ancestry is because in the face of a racist he will still be considered the common racial epiphtet that is attributed to all African-Americans. In addition, Shasta it is important for you to understand that during the Slave trade Africans from different parts of Africa including Nigeria were brought to America. So although Obama's father may not have American roots, Obama's legacy as an African-American or Bi-racial American whatever you call him still has a historical legacy here if not an ancestral one.

�

Its an unfair determination to make when you you manipulate the word change and use it in the political context you use. Perhaps electing a bi-racial individual is the first step to using race as just an abstract concept. Things take time and besides, if Obama were "full black" I don't think most Americas would vote for him. The fact that he has bi-racial parents and comes from a background that young white kids as well as older white kids can relate, not to mention his eloquent speeches people like him. Again, small steps. Ever watch the movie Contact? Very good points [IMG]http://www.islamicity.com/forum/smileys/smiley1.gif" height="17" width="17" align="absmiddle" alt="Smile" />
As salaamulaikum Hyposonic.Not all African Americans are full Black as you say but, in American if you are a little black you are black.You would be the stronger gean (black) reguardless of what other race you would be mixed with.
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Akhe Abdullah View Drop Down
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Points: 1252 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Akhe Abdullah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2008 at 5:37am
Originally posted by Duende Duende wrote:

Beautifully put, Maryah.
I wish the original US declaration could now be modified to state "all PEOPLE are created equal." That seems to deal with the gender and race issue.

The only thing I feel you left out is the original crimes committed against the indigenous peoples of the United States, and their absolute subjugation to the present day where they are a historic relic barely acknowledged even as a minority.

The day the US elects to the Presidency a native American shall be a day of true change, don't you think?

As Orwell so eloquently put it: "all men are created equal. But some are more equal than others." After all, Barack does not share the history of American Blacks, his father was a Nigerian. Not an African American. His personal experiences were/are not those of the American Black's history, he has merely received this through his happenstance. Neither he nor his ancestors have lived it.
As salaamulaikum Duende.If im not mistaken the U.S declaration of independance states, I hold the truths to be self evident that all people are created equal.As far as the original one I think not.Someone please correct me if im wrong its been a long time since Ive studied U.S his story from a book.
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Akhe Abdullah View Drop Down
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Points: 1252 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Akhe Abdullah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2008 at 5:49am
Originally posted by Duende Duende wrote:

Beautifully put, Maryah.
I wish the original US declaration could now be modified to state "all PEOPLE are created equal." That seems to deal with the gender and race issue.

The only thing I feel you left out is the original crimes committed against the indigenous peoples of the United States, and their absolute subjugation to the present day where they are a historic relic barely acknowledged even as a minority.

The day the US elects to the Presidency a native American shall be a day of true change, don't you think?

As Orwell so eloquently put it: "all men are created equal. But some are more equal than others." After all, Barack does not share the history of American Blacks, his father was a Nigerian. Not an African American. His personal experiences were/are not those of the American Black's history, he has merely received this through his happenstance. Neither he nor his ancestors have lived it.
As salaamulaikum Duende.Acually most Native Americans live on resevations and they govern themselves no presents for the are tribes and they have Chifes.
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Akhe Abdullah View Drop Down
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Points: 1252 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Akhe Abdullah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 November 2008 at 6:01am
Originally posted by Hyposonic Hyposonic wrote:

Islamically there is no disagreement on whether of not homosexuality is considered wrong. It is unanimously agreed that it is wrong. There is no knowledgeable Muslim who would state that Islam teaches otherwise.

�

However Muslims, just like any other segment of the population, have their own opinions about things. There are Muslims on this forum who have been so all of their lives and those who have just accepted Islam and are learning. There is nothing wrong in questioning the tenants of Islam and seeking to understand why we believe what we believe.

�

What some people here should remember is that screaming haram at anyone who asks a question or is trying to understand is detrimental to teaching and may actually turn people away. Hazrat Aiaha said that she would continue to ask The Prophet questions about something until she fully understood it. Too bad those days are gone....

�

�

<FONT face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" color=#0000ff size=2>This is an acceptable response....See Sign Reader? Very easy.
As salaamulaikum Hyposonic.Prophet Rasulullah(SAW)says. Preventing others from knowledge is not permissible.
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Hyposonic View Drop Down
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Points: 247 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hyposonic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2008 at 4:48pm
As salaamulaikum Hyposonic.Not all African Americans are full Black as you say but, in American if you are a little black you are black.You would be the stronger gean (black) reguardless of what other race you would be mixed with.
 

Well, all of us [human beings] are not pure anything. Arabs, Pakistanis, Egyptians are not pure anything if we accept the scientific/anthropological evidence that our human ancestors existed in a specific region. I was making a point.
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