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Do they hate the koran?

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Israfil View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Israfil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2005 at 5:12pm

Salaam All,

First off Fuhad I think its unfair to first say that do "all people in the Us and Europe" first and foremost there are people in the U.S and Europe that hates Islam but there are those who see Islam as another path to God and there are those who see Islam as a light of God. There are various groups of people in the world. We Muslims must be careful in linking the ignorant ones with those who have sincerity. Use David C as an example truly he has an open mind and is those who believe Islam is a path to God. Knowledge is truly a cure for the disease of ignorance and I think the hatred of Islam comes from the ignorance of it.

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Abu Hadi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Abu Hadi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2005 at 5:36pm
[QUOTE=amlhabibi2000]

So therefore people need to understand what they can do to alleviate the total catastrophy of falling victim to ones emotionial and physical needs.

That is why freedom to access sexual health information and practices is important vital and key.

To protect women and children from men with appetites out of control.

A note of caution to we muslims who live in the West. Do not adopt non Islamic social structures wholesale without considering the source. If we merely need access to sexual and health information to solve the problems of frustration, rape, child molestation, sexual battery, etc. then these problems should have been solved in the U.S., Canada, and Europe 30 years ago. We have had 30 years to have complete and total access to any sort of information about these subjects that we cared to digest. Then why is it that we have much greater  instances of all these crimes in U.S., Canda, and Europe than anywhere else in the world? These crime statistics are readily available online ( I will provide sources if anyone is interested).

The religion of Islam has made the marriage contract so easy that any believing man and woman can accomplish this in under 5 minutes, with no money or resources. Unfortunately some cultures have placed many artificial restrictions on marriage that have nothing to do with Islam. This is the source of many problems in countries with large muslim populations. If marriage was practiced in accordance with the teachings of our Prophet(p.b.u.h) and not in accordance with cultural or western dogma, this would solve the problems we are discussing above. The solutions are there, they only need to be implemented.

We as muslims need to be cautious and protect our beliefs and traditions. There is an active campaign of disinformation about Islam that is picking up steam. This is being lead by the enemy of Islam and muslims, US President George Bush, please read the following...

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/050425/25roots.ht m

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kim! View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kim! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2005 at 6:40pm

Originally posted by Abu Hadi Abu Hadi wrote:

If we merely need access to sexual and health information to solve the problems of frustration, rape, child molestation, sexual battery, etc. then these problems should have been solved in the U.S., Canada, and Europe 30 years ago. We have had 30 years to have complete and total access to any sort of information about these subjects that we cared to digest. Then why is it that we have much greater  instances of all these crimes in U.S., Canda, and Europe than anywhere else in the world? 

 

More crime, or just better reporting? The west appears to have more crimes like this because they get _reported_. There are statistics and crimes charged and victims are encouraged to speak out.

In other countries, victims are NOT encouraged to speak out. In fact, they are punished if they DO. Do you think these are the countries that will keep accurate statistics on their crimes? Highly, highly doubtful. And how can these countries keep stats about crimes that are never reported?

Kim... 

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Community View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Community Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 June 2005 at 10:32pm

I agree with that such countries would not keep accurate statistics about these sort of crimes, but don't you believe that these crimes are often connected to alcohol abuse?

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kim! View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kim! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2005 at 12:20am

Only sometimes. We aren't ALL massive drinkers. And often people who DO drink a lot are more likely just to pass out and go to sleep instead of beating someone up.

Yes - there are crimes associated with alcohol. Always have been , always will be. There are also crimes associated with cars, sex,  drugs, religion, power, politicians, spouses, weird family members, money, business, democracy, despotism, communism, etc, etc. Should we ban them as well?

Crime happens everywhere and all the time. Crime happens in ways that you can't even begin to imagine. What can we do? Almost nothing helps.

Kim...

   

 

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Abu Hadi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Abu Hadi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2005 at 4:47am

Salams to all,

I forgot to mention Australia. I should append this statement. "these problems should have been solved in the U.S., Canada, Australia and Europe 30 years ago" . I live in the US and I have visited Canada and Europe many times. I hope kim wasn't offended by this. I think Australia is a beautiful country from what I have seen of tv,  and  I hope to visit someday.

Back to the subject. It is a well know fact that even in the above countries, approximately 4 out of 5 rapes and instances of child molestation go unreported. They don't report these for mostly the same reasons that they are not reported other places (i.e. they are ashamed, they know the attacker and don't want to get them 'in trouble', etc). So these are not even reported on crime statistics. There are also many of these crimes that go unreported in other places. I am not making a statistical argument. I wish we had accurate data from muslim countries on these types of crimes, but unfortunately we don't. As stated above, data in Western countries is not all that accurate either.

Considering the above, I still stand by my original premise. Information and educational programs are not enough to solve the problems of rape, child abuse, and violence toward women. If this were enough, these problems would have been solved in the Western countries, and they obviously are not solved, in the West or anywhere else.

These problems fit into the context of the general problem of Oppression (Thulm, as it is mentioned in the Holy Quran). The Thalimin ( oppressors) are those who violate the delicate balance of humanity by taking by force what does not belong to them. By doing this, they harm other people, themselves, and society. There are obviously degrees of Thulm and one can oppress oneself(anorexia, suicide, etc) , another person(rape, child molestation, murder, robbery), or society as a whole (unjust wars, crimes against humanity).

The root of Thulm is Kufr (disbelief in Islam, ungratefulness of Allah(s.w.a)). You must first commit Kufr before you can be a Thalimin. If you believe in Allah(s.w.a) and follow the examples set by our Prophet(p.b.u.h) and the Ahl Al Bayt(p.b.u.t), you will not commit Kufr and thus will never be a Thalimin. By following the example, I mean attempting , with sincere intention(niyyat), to emulate both the spirit and form of their actions.   It is only when we take ourselves outside of this wonderful system and begin following our own desires that we put ourselves, our families, and society in danger.

Unfortunately there are many people who keep up the outward rituals of Islam, but their hearts are full of Kufr. These people are refered to as the Munafiquin (the hypocrites). They exist in every place and have existed in every period of Islamic history, even during the time of our Holy Messenger(p.b.u.h).

Kufr is the greatest enemy of humanity. No muslim is safe from this and it is a battle we must fight during every moment of our life.

"And have they never travelled in the earth and beheld what was the fate of their forbearers. Far mightier were they; they tilled the land and built more on it than they have built. Their Messengers came to them with Clear Signs. Allah did not wrong them, but they wronged themselves. Evil was the end of the evil-doers, because they had denied the revelations of Allah and scoffed at them."

(Quran, 30:9,10)

 



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Ali Zaki View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ali Zaki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2005 at 8:31am

Salam to all,

Kim wrote:

"More crime, or just better reporting? The west appears to have more crimes like this because they get _reported_. There are statistics and crimes charged and victims are encouraged to speak out.

In other countries, victims are NOT encouraged to speak out. In fact, they are punished if they DO. Do you think these are the countries that will keep accurate statistics on their crimes? Highly, highly doubtful. And how can these countries keep stats about crimes that are never reported? "

I have studied these issues academically (B.S. in Sociology from U.C. Riverside, with a concentration in statistical methodology), and there is no scientific evidence that I have seen that establishes your assertion that " The west appears to have more crimes because crimes like this get reported more often." It is however, well known that these crimes are TALKED ABOUT more often in the popular culture/media and that there are thousands of groups that ENCOURAGE women to report these crimes. However, there is no evidence I have seen (and I have looked) using a rigorous academic methodology that the % or reporting (number of reports/number of occurances) is any higher in the West than anywhere else. As a result, one must assume a constant % of repots, which would mean that the TOTAL NUMBER of incidents has increased. There is more evidence for this (based on aggregated data, sample data and case studies).

There is evidence that accurate records of sex crimes are not kept in non-Western countries, such as the Middle East. There are two possible explanations for this 1.) There is a deliberate, systematic attempt to keep this information from becoming public, despite the existance of incrimnating data or 2.) No data has been collected(systematically), because the occurance of these events is not statistically significant enought to warrant a "full-scale" study (in the face of limited government resources).

I have traveled many times to the Middle East. It is not as if these issues are not discussed, or that they do not occur. However, you find that among Muslims, it is a very rare occurance. There are many reasons for this, however, based on my personal experience I would favor the 2nd explanation for the lack of data. This is not scientific. This does not mean that the 1st explanation if incorrect, however, there is no data to support either one.

Salam,

"The structure of faith is supported by four pillars endurance, conviction, justice and jihad."

Imam Ali (a.s.)
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Ali Zaki View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ali Zaki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 June 2005 at 8:44am

RE: ALCOHOL AND CRIME

Not everyone who drinks is a criminal (by western definitions), however, the plurality of crimes commited are related to alcohol abuse.

- Probation officers reported that in 70% of their cases, the last criminal offence commited by the payrolee was directly related to alcohol.

- 45% of the career criminal population have a significant problem with alcohol (i.e, they are addicted to alcohol)

- 44% of all instances of domestic violence involve alcohol

Alcohol use is associate with

- 60-70% of homocides

- 70% of stabbings

- 70% of beatings

- 50% of fights

19% of ALL violent incidents took place in or around bars.

Salam

 

"The structure of faith is supported by four pillars endurance, conviction, justice and jihad."

Imam Ali (a.s.)
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