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Topic ClosedChristian minorities in Muslim countries

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Fidel View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 October 2006 at 9:02am
Originally posted by muslim-mother muslim-mother wrote:

the majority of westerns i have met in other forums,  say that  islam is a violent religion as they only see in thier media the killings .

They donot see the real islam .. i have so many things to share with you muslims here ..



I think we have to be honest. Islam is a violent religion, that is, we do believe in the use of violence for certain purposes. (I don't see anything wrong in the use of Jihad for self-defense for example). That doesn't mean all muslims use violence, but only some when necessary. Also, we never hear of religions such Buddhism in connection with violence, because they clearly reject all forms of violence. Islam isn't a non-violent religion like for example the Amish or the Quakers, to suggest it is, is false. I think we have be honest and truthful, otherwise we make ourselves look like silly liars in the West.


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Aisha Muslima View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 October 2006 at 5:15pm

ok Fidel, i completly disagree with you, Islam is NOT a violent religion! The only way we use "violent" is to protect ourshelf from oppressor!!!! and that not called violent, that is called self defense! Muslims are ONLY allow to use "violent" to protect themshelf and the society from oppressors but it only at the LAST resort, when we have no other options.

If i speak like you, everyone is violent and every religions is violent even the laws, since self defense is bad! im sorry to said this but to be honest with you, i dont think you know the definition of violent and self defense.

im sorry if i offend you but i had to tell you this since i really dont like it when people espicially Muslims said wrong things about Allah, Islam and Mohammad (saw)

Aisha Muslima
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 October 2006 at 5:51pm
Originally posted by Aisha Muslima Aisha Muslima wrote:

ok Fidel, i completly disagree with you, Islam is NOT a violent religion! The only way we use "violent" is to protect ourshelf from oppressor!!!! and that not called violent, that is called self defense! Muslims are ONLY allow to use "violent" to protect themshelf and the society from oppressors but it only at the LAST resort, when we have no other options.

If i speak like you, everyone is violent and every religions is violent even the laws, since self defense is bad! im sorry to said this but to be honest with you, i dont think you know the definition of violent and self defense.

im sorry if i offend you but i had to tell you this since i really dont like it when people espicially Muslims said wrong things about Allah, Islam and Mohammad (saw)

I really appreciate this post because it brings out how very careful we have to be with the words we use.  A lot of misunderstandings arise so easily with different interpretations of language - especially in these times when we are such a global community and yet we need to account for cultural differences that can influence our translations.  Its a great way to get to know one another but also there is danger in causing unintended offence as well.

Peace

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 October 2006 at 8:26pm

I agree that Fidel need to understand Islam a bit more before putting his thoughts or starting a thread like this.

Hi I am a born Muslim residing in Singapore. Our country has a secular government hence all religion exists side by side.

As far as I have seen here, Islam has never treated anyone with disrespect. We have not even go all out to preach to others to join our religion. Unlike the Christians, where they are constantly trying to get other Non-Muslims to join their faith by stopping them in the malls or other public places and talk religion to them.

Even our "masjids" do not have banners that preaches about Islam. I cannot say likewise for the churches here.

What we actually seek is for everyone else to understand us and leave us alone with our faith. At most that we do here is open up certain areas in our "masjids" to the public where we showcase information about Islam.

For your information, the Eastern religions such as Hinduism, Taoism and Buddhism also adopt such ways here. But sadly, I cannot say the same about Christians.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 October 2006 at 12:22pm
I know self-defence is acceptable, but I do think we have to look at what we call self-defense. (For example, the US' idea of self-defense is attack first, before others attacks them. ) Some Muslims don't use self-defence in its true sense, as is the case with some non-muslims too. I am against violence and I struggle with my faith in Islam, because I see a growing acceptance of violence. Fatwas are sometimes issued if people disagree with us. In some countries there is still stoning and female circumcision. In other countries, we can still get get a hand taken off for stealing. I don't know if I can agree with this. I dislike the way some of us threaten those who we disagree with. I know we muslims ought to not express these things, but my conscience can't ignore them. What will my community do to me if I abandon Islam for a less militant religion. I am lost...  
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Aisha Muslima View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 October 2006 at 3:37pm

Assalam alikum Fidel, i understand what you feeling right now, i felt like this before. I dont think you have to leave Islam for this since in other religions they have this too (christianny, hinduism, juive), it probably not excatly the same but still. You need to study Islam more and regulary, it will help you inshaAllah.

I see a growing acceptance of violence

And you shouldnt associate those islamics country EVERYTHING they do, that dont necessary mean it Islamic. Many muslims misintreprting these acts.  

(For example, the US' idea of self-defense is attack first, before others attacks them. ) Some Muslims don't use self-defence in its true sense, as is the case with some non-muslims too.

Self defense dont mean is attacking first, it mean ur protecting urshelf or other from the attacker. Example one evening, you are with ur family at ur home. A group of crazy mens get in ur house and they are armes. They are hurting ur mother, ur wife, ur sisters, brothers, ur childrens. They are about to rape ur family and beat them to death. What are you gonna do? Stand there and try to maitenance peace? No, you will do like everyone else SELF DEFENSE, you will kill them to protect ur family and ur community. The community because they (crazy mens) will do it to some other family too.

female circumcision

Some of my friends come from those muslim country like Somalia where they pratic female circumcision but it not about religious issues, it the traditions. But if you look at other muslims countrys they never pratic it. Some of my friends come from Morroco and her family NEVER hear of female circumcision and they do not agree with it.

About to cut hand if u steal, i think u talking about Soudith Arabia country, Did u know that they have the less stealer of the country? One men who live there told me that they do that to protect the socety from stealers. The stealer think many times before commit the crime. They do not cut the hand of a kids or someone who steal 10 bucks! They do it to peoples who steal like millions of dollars from hard work, honest innoncents peoples. But in other muslim country they dont.

Aisha Muslima
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 October 2006 at 4:06pm

I have a excellent book "Islamic FActs refuting the allegations against Islam write by Dr. Mahmoud Hamdy Zakzouk. He explain about ur questions. So i will write some of ur question here

Is the Islamic code of punishment brutal?

1- Islam is not a religion that advocates brutality. On the contrary it calls for mercy, clemency, and toleration. Nevertheless, it insists on establishing law and order in the community so as to safeguard the freedom and the rights of its members, and to protect their lives, beliefs, wealth, possessions, and families. When Islam imposes a certain punishment for a specific sin, it takes into consideration two factors:

a) Man is not infallible, but it constantly exposed to temptation. Thus the door of repentance is always open to those who regret having committed sins and repent and desire to atone.

b) Every member of the community is entitled to live a life of safety and to feel that he, his family, and his property are not exposed to any kind of danger. Thus the depraved or corrupted behavior of criminals should be dealt with accordingly, so that the peace-loving members of the community would not live in a  state of fear and apprehension.  

2- Although Islam had made laws to punish crimes, it requires decisive proof of the guilt of the accused person before passing a sentence on him and does not enforce the punishment if there is any doubt concerning his guilt. Also if any guilty person repents sincerely of his sin, the sentence can be suspended if the judge is convinced of the sincerity of the accused. The Prophet said: ��Try to prevent enforcing the penalty on Muslims whenever it is possible to do so, and should there be the slightest doubt as to the guilt of the accused person, set him free. It is far better that a judge errs in remitting the penalty than erring in enforcing it. � 

Such an authentic saying from the traditions of the Prophet is the essence of mercy and tolerance.

3- The penalty for adultery in Islam depends on a certain condition that makes it almost impossible to enforce. The condition is that the act of adultery must be witnessed by four peoples who must swear that they saw the act committed. Accordingly, the two incidents in the history of Islam when this penalty was enforced were the result of the confession of the guilty parties and not of the evidence of witnesses. The Prophet did his best to try and persuade the guilty persons to change their statements in which they confessed their guilt but they confirmed them and the Prophet was accordingly compelled to order enforcing the penalty, in spite of his profound grief. In view of the condition stipulated and the extreme difficulty of fulfilling it, such a punishment never occurred again in the history of Islam.

Also you have to know that It only for the married couple who do zina with other person. Also you have to know that if other persons. And anyone who have a penalty for his sins like zina on earth, he will not be punish on the Day of Judgment since he allready being punish for it on reath, he will be saved from that.   

I will continue writting about cut off the hand and the femal circumission later inshaAllah take care

Aisha Muslima
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 October 2006 at 3:17pm
Assalam alikum Aisha Muslima!

Thanks for your input! I probably needed to study Islam more regularly, but questions arise that the Qu'ran doesn't give clear answers to. For example, should anyone be involved in punishing adultery? Who is so sinless that they condemn another?  I have read that in Christianty, Jesus said to a group about to punish a woman for adultery, "He who is without sin cast the first stone" (Of course, none threw a stone). I am thinking I will join a Christian church, as it's teaching is gentler, less harsh. Maybe it's a cop out, but it suits my personality. The whole world seems to hate Islam at the moment and I am beginning to wonder why. I know it will be hard on my family, but I can't bear being so different in society. I shaved my beard today for the first time in weeks. I have given my Qu'ran away to my family. I think when I did that, there is no turning back. I saw a priest today to begin instruction on becoming a Catholic. Their Church seems quite down to earth and welcoming. I haven't made up my mind fully, but at least finding out more will decide it for me.  
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