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Are supporters ofextremists true Muslims?

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Israfil View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Israfil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 September 2005 at 5:27pm
The passage is the Clot:

Allah said:   Proclaim! (or read!) in the name of thy Lord and
Cherisher, Who created-Created man, out of a (mere) clot of
congealed blood: Proclaim! And thy Lord is Most Bountiful,- He
Who taught (the use of) the pen,-Taught man that which he
knew not. Day, but man doth transgress all bounds, In that he
looketh upon himself as self-sufficient.Verily, to thy Lord is the
return (of all). -Al-Alaq 96: 1-8

All praises are due to Allah Lord of the Universe for this verse!

The truest answers come here when God states that in the
affairs of the world today is due to man's incline of self-
sufficiency. Mankind is only a minute organism i the world
today and its unfortunate that when using methods of violence
we appear in the eyes of others as great. when we respond to
anger it's "the peoples anger" and for those of the extreme point
of view it's "God's anger."

God is the ultimate judge and all affairs go back to him. When
we do not realize the importance of this rule we are not
cognizant of God, but only aware of ourselves. You are right B,
there are people in the world more poorer than the palestinians
and I can name Africa alone. Imagine the struggles of the
African people being displaced for centuries! and yet the
struggles of the palestinians are forefront in the Islamic world.
Even though this is evident my mind is on this Quranic principle
that the pen (or the ability to comprehend and write in
language) is indeed mightier than the sword (or in this case the
gun).

What we Muslims fail to understand that Muhammad's greatest
miracle greater than all of prophets greater than Moses, Jesus
and even Soloman was that he was able to introduce the
Qur'an and attract thousands of people to Islam. Muhammad on
his own accord was not the wisest nor the most powerful, but
he was the most intelligent because he knew that through the
Qur'an came the ultimate knowledge of God and through this
knowledge can mankind realize his own existence! I draw this
as a parallel because the only way mankind can realize his
annihilation is through the realization of tragedy through words.

When people sit down and realize that life being destroyed on
both sides is digressing (I hope I spelled that right) the situation
then hopefully people will then understand the significance of
speech before action. This as Brother Mockba would also
suggest to me is the simple basics of Islam that we many times
forget to inact.


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b95000 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote b95000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 September 2005 at 7:16pm
I think much of what you've written there is poignant, striking and powerful...may we, as people of faith, turn first to God, to the Holy writings and to reflections upon our Holy Writings, which can themselves be penned and turn both others in our own cultures and, as we honestly and sensitively dialogue with others, in other cultures, away from violence and toward compassion for the poor.

Believe me, the first place in my heart is to serve the uplift the poor and to this I've been called.  However, people need to be able to do this without randomly being killed...and thus we have our present dilemma...

Thank you...may the Lord God bless you and your family and may your message of peace spread to many there where you are and here in the United States of America..

Bruce
Bruce
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote b95000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 September 2005 at 6:33pm
Any more thoughts on this?

Can supporters of terror murder be true Muslims, even if they don't do the murdering themselves?

Indirectly providing legitimacy for terror murder by sympathizing that the murder terrorist came out of a 'context' of certain (perhaps disagreeable or unwanted) Israeli or US policies is akin to sympathizing with the terror murderer themselves and with why the terror murder takes place; this is to legitimize terror murder under certain circumstances - even if you claim that it is, under Islamic teaching, illegitimate, inexcusable and heinous.  If it is those things, then don't excuse it EVER for ANY reason, or try to explain why it arises other than to say it is DEVIANT.  Murder of other human beings is widely accepted in all faiths as deviant, sinful, wicked, illegal behaviour and there is no excusing it.


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Bruce
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human View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote human Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 September 2005 at 10:28pm

Excellent discussions all. I would only like to add that all communities must take responsibility for reining in the extremist elements. The debate about whether someone is a real (you name it) or not is moot. What is relevant is the ideology that created that mindset. It could be misguided, it could be contrary to what your religious book says, but a degree of tolerance for such renegades within the society implies a responsibility that can not be foresaken. Excommunicating them is akin to throwing your trash in your neighbor's backyard; not a long term solution.

Regards,

Human

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Community Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 September 2005 at 11:24pm

Well the issue of extreemism is the people's dependence on methodologies set by religious leaders, this means the set belief systems and articles set by "scholars" which need to be accepted by one to become accepted as one of the "believers" into the particular religious group. So when it comes to religious sects and groups the leader's views need to be accepted by the individual to become part of the group, this you find in all "religions", and these religious leaders usually are out for power or wealth. It depends on what is allowed in a respective society by the government and what these sort of "leaders" wish to achieve, but honestly besides religious scholars preaching intollerance and violence towards others, i find it also very disgusting how "christian" religious scholars con people out of their money by selling them "feel good" lies and acting like the money is going to charity....but i guess if you want a "buzz" you need to pay for it....just very unfortunate that people who do care about the poor do not give it to churches alot of times because of the corruption of these sort of preachers....there are ways to get money given in charity to churches to the causes these preachers claim it will go to, i personally know a couple of ways how to root out this sort of corruption in churches... But yeah extreemism and intollerance need to be dealt with, corruption too.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote b95000 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 September 2005 at 6:04pm
Originally posted by human human wrote:

Excellent discussions all. I would only like to add that all communities must take responsibility for reining in the extremist elements. The debate about whether someone is a real (you name it) or not is moot. What is relevant is the ideology that created that mindset. It could be misguided, it could be contrary to what your religious book says, but a degree of tolerance for such renegades within the society implies a responsibility that can not be foresaken. Excommunicating them is akin to throwing your trash in your neighbor's backyard; not a long term solution.

Regards,

Human



Sometimes excommunicating people, or letting them know that they are not really believers is necessary antecedent to upending their legitimacy.  If people are truly imagining that they are killing innocent civilians in Allah's Name they must be opposed in this vigorously and excommunication from the community of faith would be yet one more way of isolating and upending any supposed legitimacy they have and of upending them before they can gain traction and carry out (as many) heinous acts.

Basically what I am saying is that communities of faith, and in this case specifically the Ummah of Islam, needs to be more involved and more pro-active in opposing these murderers who call themselves Muslisms.
Bruce
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.
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