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Israfil 
Senior Member 
Joined: 08 September 2003 Status: Offline Points: 3984 |
 Posted: 12 February 2008 at 7:42am |
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Hi Diagoras, speaking a Christian, I would say try focusing on the prophecies of the end times. Read Revelation 13 first. Then Daniel 7. It is only two short chapters, but it will keep your interest. It would be a step of faith... to prove me wrong of course. See where it takes you. Israfil: Diagoras: Funny the title (which is quite misleading) says, "ask an atheist" yet we are discussing the fundamentals of variants within atheism. Diagoras: I am not making a claim, I am expressing skepticism towards the claim that you make. Israfil: Wrong! Atheism regardless whether classified as weak or strong is specifying a denial claim of the existence of a metaphysical deity. You are in the sense, of the construction of your sentences denying the existence of God through the reasoning by using Russell's Teapot. If you deny the existence of God just say you do, do say "well I'm critiquing your view" we have not made any personal claims YOU are the one constructing a thread and have suggested conversation. Meaningm you came to us with this inquiry we didn't come to you. You are using religion as though we opened our mouths and made claims of thus and so. I have to agree with Andalus stop hiding behind links that is not good scholarship at all. Diagoras: Also, the concept of God is not a naturalistic one, it has much more in common with the Invisible Pink Unicorn. Israfil: You are in the above equating God with mythical creatures presupposing the irrational belief of their existence? I'm not sure why you keep making up these examples and although they are relevant here in discussion I can say they may exist. According to some thinkers our ideas whatever they are exist in potentiality, dormant, and although currently non-existent, they do in fact exist somewhere.
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Diagoras
Senior Member 
Joined: 06 November 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 115 |
Posted: 12 February 2008 at 5:39pm |
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Sorry for the delay, but school is killing me. I'll reply as soon as I get the chance.
And I thought this thread was dead.  |
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minuteman
Senior Member
Joined: 25 March 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1642 |
Posted: 12 February 2008 at 6:41pm |
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Diagoras: 1.You're either joking or a troll. I can't believe people like this actually exist, but I unfortunately have evidence of them shoved before my eyes. 2. It's not that I believe in something, it's that I don't believe in something. Okay, I had previously asked about the boundaries of belief. What would make the atheist believe? Please define the requirements of belief. Here we may consider two sentences. 1. I don't believe there is God. 2. I believe there is no God. They actually mean one and the same thing. But will diagoras please explain which sentence he would prefer? Please chose any one of the two. Diagoras does not believe there is GOD. FOR WHATEVER REASON, There is no God in the belief of Diagoras, My question is : Does Diagoras believe in anything at all?? Does he believe in himself? Or we have to prove his existence to him too? Please answer the questions as asked, one by one. Does Diagoras believe in abstract things and to what extent? Does he believe in the feelings? Does he believe in the material things only? No offence. These are very simple questions and may help us to come to some conclusion. Thanks.
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Ron Webb
Senior Member
Male atheist Joined: 30 January 2008 Location: Ottawa, Canada Status: Offline Points: 2467 |
Posted: 12 February 2008 at 7:29pm |
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I've been watching this discussion, although I haven't had a chance to read it from the beginning. I wonder if I could pinch-hit for Diagoras while he catches up on schoolwork?
I've certainly seen a great many theistic arguments for the existence of God, but none that hold any water. Maybe instead of accusing others of intellectual laziness, you could put forth such an argument yourself.
There is no water composed of carbon dioxide, by definition. It doesn't require evidence.
Not unicorns, leprechauns.
I'm not sure what Diagoras would say, but my answer boils down to Occam's Razor. Given the choice among Allah, the Christian God, the Jewish God, the Mormons, the Hindu, Greek and Roman pantheons, and all the rest, versus the assumption that there is no God/gods, it just seems to me that the last hypothesis is the simplest and most plausible. That's not exactly a proof, but I've never come across a better one. |
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Ron Webb
Senior Member
Male atheist Joined: 30 January 2008 Location: Ottawa, Canada Status: Offline Points: 2467 |
Posted: 12 February 2008 at 7:31pm |
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That's easy: evidence. |
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Andalus
Moderator Group
Joined: 12 October 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1187 |
Posted: 12 February 2008 at 8:25pm |
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It was not an accusation. It is a fact based upon the thread. I did not create the thread. He did. If you start a thread about a particular topic, you should be prepared. His thread was disengenuous, or possibly "deceptive". Please read the entire thread before attempting to "come to someones defence". As far as theological arguments, if you are up on them, then you can start a new thread as an atheist and argue why athiesm is necessarily true and theism is necessarily false.
by "definition" because it is based upon the "attributes", or essential elememts of water and carbon dioxide. It is a universal negative statement. By "definition" does not make not a universal negative statement.
false analogyA false analogy is an unjustified inference drawn on the basis of similarities between two items or types of items. The justification of an inference based on analogical reasoning depends on the number and strength of known similarities and dissimilarities of the items being compared. If there are very few known similarities or if there are a few known very great dissimilarities, then drawing inferences based on the comparison is unjustified. The result is a false analogy. http://skepdic.com/falseanalogy.html What good reason would someone necessarily believe that unicorns or any of the other rediculous aburdities must be true.
Your right, far from a proof. Since we are not talking about God in general, but a particular God. Your choice of occam's razor is irrational given that you have already accepted your premise without proof. |
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A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
http://www.sunnipath.com http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/ http://www.pt-go.com/ |
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minuteman
Senior Member
Joined: 25 March 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1642 |
Posted: 13 February 2008 at 1:01am |
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That was not a befitting reply. Now the details of the evidence will be required. The nature and scope of evidence will be required. We will forget about belief for a short time and get after the nature of the evidence. But the demand for belief will still stand because i can come back to that again. If the matter is understood then please elaborate and discuss the nature of the evidence that will satisfy the atheists.
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Israfil
Senior Member
Joined: 08 September 2003 Status: Offline Points: 3984 |
Posted: 13 February 2008 at 1:37am |
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Ron Webb sometimes Occam's Razor is not always plausible in all instances. Can you prove anti-matter exists physically? Can you prove multiple universes exist physically? Sure you can with scientific evidence using instruments but assuming you have no knowledge of this can you prove it? Sometimes explaining concepts the simplest explanation may not be the best answer.
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Andalus wrote: