Is Islam violent and intolerant?

Angela,

Am impressed with your thoughts! You say you dont believe in the Quran being perfect? Tell me, where is it not perfect? You are almost muslim the way you think - what's left is that you believe in the Oneness of Allah and you're there!

I'll tell you the good news for a revert to islam. You are forgiven all your previous sins and not only that, all your good deeds before islam are left recorded for you! Isn't that just so amazing?! We believe Allah is the Most Merciful, the Most Gracious and this is just one of the many proofs...

Don't hesitate - make up your mind and surrender to the wills of Allah the Almighty...

May Allah guide us all to His straight path - Ameen.

Rezz wrote: Muslim posters are praising Angela, but do you really agree with her? I�ve yet to have my second question addressed so I'll ask it clearly; Do any Muslims agree with Angela�s view that Muhammad�s revelations should be taken in the historical �context� of the time they were revealed?

Hi

I am the one who agrees with Angela's views that Muhammad�s revelations should be taken in the historical �context� of the time they were revealed.

I would rather go one step forward and would say that the historical "context" of the time has even been mentioned in explicit verses in the Quran.

So in fact the historical context is supportive of what has been already mentioned in Quran but not understood by many. If I am allowed I would reconcile both.

Thanks

I am an Ahmadi � a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics

" I imagine that most Muslims reading your post will be nodding their heads in approval as you seem to take apart each of my points."

Well, I certainly hope so!

" However, islamispeace, I am confident that most Europeans will read the same points, shaking their heads in disapproval (horror even) at some of your �moral equivalence� arguments,"

Well then, Muslims will just have to try harder to change their pompous arrogance by discussing with them these issues.  For centuries, Europeans have looked down upon the rest of the world as "inferior", and this attitude always led to destruction and tragedy.  It seems to me that you and your fellow Europeans should look at yourselves first, before you criticize others. 

That is your view, and yours alone.  For you to use your views to look down upon other cultures is not only a sign of arrogance, but also ignorance.  I have shown you that none of the issues you have raised here are valid.  Therefore, the conclusion is that the issue is not whether Islam is "violent and intolerant", it is whether the European mindset is "violent and intolerant".  It is clear from your own words that Europeans are intolerant of other cultural views, or so you claim.  If you are right in this regard, then I feel that Muslims need to be very concerned and "worried".

"The only conclusion that can be drawn here is that we have two conflicting, if not diametrically opposed civilisations."

No argument here.  Very rarely do different cultures and civilizations share the same morals and beliefs.  Does this necessarily mean that they cannot get along?  Of course not.

"If Muslims find European culture to be immoral whilst indigenous Europeans find Muslim culture to be barbaric then can we ever co-exist in the same country? Should each side compromise to accommodate the other? If so, how? And how much?"

I really do not know.  I would like to think so, but there is no way to know until we actually try.

" Finally islamispeace, reading your post has helped me to appreciate that to Muslims, Islam is indeed peaceful and tolerant. It is also, on occasion, violent and intolerant and justifiably so from an Islamic perspective."

"However, it would be helpful if you also tried to appreciate how, from a non-Muslims perspective, Islam does indeed appear (at times) to promote violence and intolerance."

Rezz,

There are all different types of "cruel" punishment.  Have you ever watched shows on the prison system as we know it? How people are locked up for 20 years of their life. Come out a broken shell, more prone to terrible behavior. Locked in cells 24 hours a day. It was gruesome to watch.  The brutality of prison is quite stark if you know about it. And this is not even just for murderers. It is very, very brutal and we are supposedly civilized. It is just quite hidden away. It is also a HUGE money making scheme.. people are profiting from these bad people. It is one of the largest industries in the US, the prison system.

Have you ever read the laws put down in the Old Testament? They are quite brutal. When Jesus (PBUH)  came, he was not changing those laws. He was already speaking to people who had this base. Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) brought the Message to a people completely in the dark, without these laws.

A good explanation as to why such a "harsh" punishment: http://216.176.51.23/ver2/archive/article.php?lang=E&id= 135506&ShowVoteResult=yes

Also, the purpose, I believe, in harsh punishment is to deter people. There are just bad people. And you know, some people won't be deterred unless it is made dramatic and clear. It is about protecting the lives of the innocent. How many people in west do you hear that victims have no rights?? If one knows this could be the �punishment� then people really will think twice. Here people go �off to prison� but that is quite unreal to many people.  

However, it would be helpful if you also tried to appreciate how, from a non-Muslims perspective, Islam does indeed appear (at times) to promote violence and intolerance.

And if you asked them what should happen to people who commit terrible acts.. they might just agree with these punishments. Ask anyone whose loved one has been brutally murdered�  I read on middle of the road web sites about Michael Vick who just admitted to all the dog fighting stuff. And average people thought if he tortured dogs like that they should put him in a ring with the dogs and let them take it out on him. Quite brutal is it not?? Its all how something is presented.

It is all how you frame the question. If you ask someone what should happen to someone who raped your daughter or intentionally killed someone, you�d be surprised what they would not mind happening to them.

Is it not better to have it clear and distinct rather then not?

Take care.