Where is the Injeel? |
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BMZ
Moderator Group Joined: 03 April 2006 Status: Offline Points: 1852 |
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Annie, I have noticed that most of the time you reply as if I am your teacher and you are answering like a child. Answers, like "He did", "He did not", "say what?", "I am not following you", etc., etc., are considered cop out in my opinion. You should read my thoughts, which are purely my own as I draft them myself, not just quote from polemic sites. You should be able to analyse them carefully and present serious replies. My simple point was: "Thou shall not worship any other God beside God.", "Thou shall worship only your Lord God with all thy hearts, all thy minds and all thy souls" and "Your Lord God is only one." The above will be treated as Injeel which means what Jesus taught and preached. As a Muslim, I agree with that. The message is crystal clear. "The Word Became Flesh:'In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning.' " Is this an statement from Jesus? Obviously it is not. I can write pages of commentary on this. This philosophy or the thought from John, which was NOT presented or taught or preached by Jesus himself, cannot be considered as Injeel. Thus, if you follow and pick the true statements uttered by Jesus, you can collect the Injeel easily. The "Lost Injeel" has actually drowned in the seas of the gospels. You talk more of narrations, stories and reports of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John but less of what really came from Jesus' own mouth. I rest my case! Edited by bmzsp |
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BMZ
Moderator Group Joined: 03 April 2006 Status: Offline Points: 1852 |
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David, Excellent and a thoughtful reply. Thanks for relieving me from the fear that my written English was poor and incomprehensible to some. You got me right. "I get BMZ's point about the injeel being a subset of the gospels. Sermon on the Mount is my favourite. Plenty of Injeel is there. Rightly said. Thanks, David for the understanding. Best Regards BMZ Edited by bmzsp |
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DavidC
Senior Member Male Christian Joined: 20 September 2001 Location: Florida USA Status: Offline Points: 2474 |
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My immediate question is what is the general opinion of imams on this idea. I doubt most have given it any thought at all, but surely we are not the first people to see this linkage.
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Christian; Wesleyan M.Div.
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Andalus
Moderator Group Joined: 12 October 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1187 |
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Hi Angela. 1) No one actually knows what the injeel was. Moses recieved the Torah, a book that contained laws and instructions, and was required to be written down. There was also an oral component to the Torah, which is contained in the Talmud. 2) Given that no one actually knows the nature of the injeel, it would be mere speculation to try and understand why Jesus did not wrie it. Was it meant to be written? Did the nature of the revelation require it to be in book format? Was it a message meant only for the Jews?
As far as the NT goes, it is unknown. many were destroyed, and none of them were actual direct copies. The Torah is the handiwork of several writers, piecing it together from traditions and oral sources. There are at least two different traditions of the Torah that we know today. It is not in the same form that it was in the beginning. So the Torah exists as a series of books from one of the two traditions.
They are preserved, as Gd does not forget. 1) The earthly recording is partially in the care of man. 2) The messages have periods of relevance. The specifics on ritual sacrifice in front of the ark is no longer a relevant bit of info. Why was Noah's revelation not preserved in the time of Moses?
What confusion? I am not confused? Man brings confusion down upon himself.
The same reason the revelation given to Noah was not preserved at the time of Noah. It was no longer relevant.
There was an injeel given to Jesus. We do not know enough about it to make any conclusions. One important question is: Was the injeel relevant to gentiles? Did it only make sense to those who followed the Torah? Just as Noahs revelation was not preserved in the time of Moses. It was not relevant. Gd only gives His people what is relevant. Peace |
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A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah
http://www.sunnipath.com http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/ http://www.pt-go.com/ |
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DavidC
Senior Member Male Christian Joined: 20 September 2001 Location: Florida USA Status: Offline Points: 2474 |
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Andalus, I have never seen any reference to a written scripture given to Noah.
There are numerous references in the Quran to the gospels, which in themselves make the gospel relevant to Muslims. I have never seen any evidence of your supposition that past revelation was made irrelevant by later revelations. Quite the opposite � later revelations have always seemed to be clarifications or renewals of the older scripture. Do you have any evidence from Qu'ran or hadith that supports your position, or is it a wholly personal view? |
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Christian; Wesleyan M.Div.
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AnnieTwo
Senior Member Joined: 26 May 2006 Status: Offline Points: 281 |
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I understand you perfectly most of the time, BMZ, but some of your own thoughts and comments are not clear. I good teacher would make himself clear. It is not hard at all to find the words of Jesus in the Gospels. Just buy yourself a Bible that puts his words in red. If you want to compare the Bible with the Qur'an then you must include all the Hadiths with the Qur'an as the Bible does include the words of men. You must admit that Muslims put much emphasis on the sayings of Muhammad and the sayings of his companions. This is where you find out what his associates thought of him and what he personally said and what was going on at the time of the sayings, what Muhammad did, what he thought of some people, how he treated people. So, when you read the Gospels of Jesus you find his teachings, the reactions of the people around him and their thoughts. This is all very important. For instance, Jesus claimed divinity. It is very important that we know what the Jews thought about that, their reactions to his sayings. It is also important that we know what questions were asked of Jesus and under what circumstances they were asked. Understand? You will find Jesus' Gospel, his teachings, his commands in the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. It is not hard to find them. Annie |
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14If you are reproached for the name of Christ, blessed are you, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. On their part He is blasphemed, but on your part He is glorified. 1 Peter 4
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BMZ
Moderator Group Joined: 03 April 2006 Status: Offline Points: 1852 |
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Annie, So what is your comment on this? You did not answer. "Thou shall not worship any other God beside God.", "Thou shall worship only your Lord God with all thy hearts, all thy minds and all thy souls" and "Your Lord God is only one." The above will be treated as Injeel which means what Jesus taught and preached. As a Muslim, I agree with that. The message is crystal clear. "The Word Became Flesh:'In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning.' " Is this an statement from Jesus? Obviously it is not. I can write pages of commentary on this. This philosophy or the thought from John, which was NOT presented or taught or preached by Jesus himself, cannot be considered as Injeel." It appears to me that you are in agreement with me on above. Thanks. |
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Angela
Senior Member Joined: 11 July 2005 Status: Offline Points: 2555 |
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I'll keep silent on this part...as a Mormon, we feel this is a very misunderstood passage.
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