i believe Quran and Bible

Saved wrote: syed_z wrote: Saved,Please learn your own scriptures before you come here to preach us.The thirty-fourth verse of the tenth chapter of Matthew quotes Isa (alaihi Salaam) as having said, �Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.� (Matt: 1034) I know my Scriptures. And what your refer to as preaching is to dispel your misconceptions of the gospel and you have many. The sword Jesus is talking about is the sword of the spirit (The Word of God) It is written the word of God is quick and powerful sharper than any two edged sword piercing to the dividing of the body and the soul and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Google it bro. When did you ever hear of Jesus having an actual steel sword in his hand? syed_z wrote: It is written in the fifty-first verse of the twelfth chapter of Luke that Isa (alaihi Salaam) said, �Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:� (Luke: 12-51) All the best. That is right. When someone is living a lie and hears the truth, it upsets the false peace and sense of security they have. They will have to make a decision that breaks up families and friends most of the times. If you want to understand the intents of the gospel listen to me, and you can learn a lot. With all due respect, you should be more quick to listen than to speak bro. PBUY, Saved

Saved,

You change topics very quick. Let me remind you what you had mentioned earlier:

Saved wrote: The next verse in the Quran 16; 126 is just another way of saying an eye for an eye and tooth for tooth which is first and original to the Scripture that came before. Jesus tells us in so many ways doing to people the evil they do to you will only make the world blind and lame. We are to love our enemies and pray for those that use and abuse us. There is no other better way; that is the truth that trumps falsehood.

My purpose to quote the words of Jesus son of Mary (alaihi Salaam) in the Gospel about the sword was to inform you that the Gospel also mentions words like 'Sword' and 'War' 'Division' which can be misinterpreted, infact they are being misinterpreted and have in the past. History speaks for itself.

Constantine the Great commanded the mutilation of all the Jews in his country by cutting their ears and exiled them to various places. In 372 C.E., the Roman emperor Gratianus, after a consultation with his commanders, commanded the Christianization of all the Jews in the country and the killing of those who would resist.

Misinterpretation of the words of Jesus son of Mary (alaihi Salaam) has indeed taken place in the past and continue to do so by the Christians.

 The thirty-sixth verse of the twenty-second chapter of Luke quotes, �... But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.� (Luke: 22-36)

Does that mean Jesus son of Mary (alaihi Salaam) promoted violence? No. But those who claimed to be his followers have done it! So Christianity and all its followers are not about love after all.

As for your 'explanation' of 16:126 as an 'eye for an eye' 'tooth for a tooth' is weak as any person with a little bit of common sense would not agree to yours after reading the following:

(16:125) Call Thou (all mankind) unto your Sustainer's path with wisdom and goodly exhortations, and argue with them in the most kindly manner

(16:126) Hence if you have to respond to an attack (in argument) respond only to the attack leveled against you; but to bear yourselves with patience is indeed far better for (you since God is with) those who are patient in adversity.

The 16:125 guides on how to have a discussion with those who disagree with you therefore 126 is to be read in conjunction with it.

Just like how you misinterpret verses from the Quran so can the words of Gospel be misinterpreted.

As for the concept of unconditional love of Jesus son of Mary (alaihi Salaam) I have the following to share with you. His disciples questioned him like you are questioning about Islam. The replies he gave to his disciples are the same that we are giving to you:

Gospel of Barnabas Chapter 58 No Pity on Reprobates

Then after he had wept, John spoke: 'O master, two things we desire to know. The one is, how it is possible that the messenger of God, who is full of mercy and pity, should have  no pity on reprobates that day, seeing that they are of the same clay as himself? The other is, how is it to be understood that the sword of Michael is heavy as ten hells; then is there more than one hell?' Jesus replied: 'Have ye not heard what David the prophet saith, how that the just shall laugh at the destruction of sinners, and shall deride him with these words, saying: "I saw the man who put his hope in his strength and his riches, and forgot God." Verily, therefore, I say unto you, that Abraham shall deride his father, and Adam all reprobate men: and this shall be because the elect shall rise again so perfect and united to God that they shall not conceive in their minds the smallest thought against his justice; therefore shall each of them demand justice, and above all the messenger of God. As God liveth, in whose presence I stand, though now I weep for
pity of mankind, on that day I shall demand justice without mercy against those who despise my words, and most of all against those who defile my gospel.

Amazingly Quran says the same:

(5:78) Those Children of Israel who defied [God] were cursed through the words of David, and Jesus, son of Mary, because they disobeyed, they persistently overstepped the limits, they did not forbid each other to do wrong. How vile their deeds were


Gospel of Mathew Verse 34

A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and an evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.�


There is no unconditional love. Justice is part of God's love for mankind and had it not been for God's justice mankind would have been worst than it already is.

2Acts wrote: syed_z wrote: Saved wrote: Jesus tells us in so many ways doing to people the evil they do to you will only make the world blind and lame. We are to love our enemies and pray for those that use and abuse us. There is no other better way; that is the truth that trumps falsehood. Regards, Saved Saved,Please learn your own scriptures before you come here to preach us.The thirty-fourth verse of the tenth chapter of Matthew quotes Isa (alaihi Salaam) as having said, �Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.� (Matt: 1034) It is written in the fifty-first verse of the twelfth chapter of Luke that Isa (alaihi Salaam) said, �Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:� (Luke: 12-51) All the best. It is obvious Jesus was talking figuratively. He was simply saying his message would bring division. He was not and never did advocate violence. Unlike Mohamad. There are dozens of verses in the Quran that advocate violence.

The sword is a common Biblical image. The Roman short sword was an axe, a knife, even a shovel. Searching through the Bible the imagery is usually of dividing and cleaning. Separating good from bad, meat from bone, removing excess fat and sinew. We even have God's tongue appearing as a sword in Revelation, sorting out the final judgment

Sometimes the sword is a tool of violence, but not often. Most Biblical violence is in the OT histories. The ability to forge iron was a closely guarded Phoenician technology the Israelites did not have. In the story of the defeat of Sisera in Judges, Deborah's entire army only had one brass sword.

By Mohammed's time weaponry and metallurgy had become much more advanced.

2Acts wrote: In 1972 a large number of ancient Quranic manuscripts, dating from first century of Hijra were discovered in the Great Mosque of Sana�a (Yemen), which significantly differs from the present standard one. This challenges the orthodox Muslim belief that the Quran, as it has reached us today, is �the perfect, timeless, and unchanging Word of God�. It means the Quran has been distorted, perverted, revised, modified and corrected, and textual alterations had taken place over the years purely by Human hands. Millions have memorised the Quran. Really !Which Quran ? The original one or the changed one ? Muslims willnever know because Uthman destroyed the originals !

Ceo3 is not 100% correct he states "Going back to about 700AD there is proof via discovered Quranic script that what we have today is exactly the same and No other book ever has been on such a large scale been commited to memory."
If that is the case, why didn't Uthman depend on memory when he recompiled the Qurans he had burned. He used Hafsa's copy (the help of text not memory) afterwards her was destroyed (after her death).

I don't see any evidence that the Qurans they use today trace directly back to Muhammad accept for the final copy Hafsa had that was destroyed and the one you speak of in Yemen.

I do believe you are correct that is an older copy found that doesn't resemble perfectly the one Muslims use today. I understand that if there is one discrepancy in the Quran it renders all of it useless.

My question is who gave Uthman the divine mandate to put the Quran to writing? Quran means recite not write; who made Uthman Muhammad's successor and Allah's editor in chief?

I believe the copy Hafsa had was very different from the one he recompiled, and he destroyed the evidence so one one would be the wiser. We don't have it to compare and contrast, and the Turkish government won't let anyone carefully examine the oldest Quran found to compare and contrast to the one they use now. This sounds like a man controlled endeavor that has gone on for centuries IMHO.

PBUY
Saved



Edited by Saved - 22 November 2016 at 3:02pm

syed_z wrote: Saved wrote: Jesus tells us in so many ways doing to people the evil they do to you will only make the world blind and lame. We are to love our enemies and pray for those that use and abuse us. There is no other better way; that is the truth that trumps falsehood. Regards, Saved Saved,Please learn your own scriptures before you come here to preach us.The thirty-fourth verse of the tenth chapter of Matthew quotes Isa (alaihi Salaam) as having said, �Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.� (Matt: 1034) It is written in the fifty-first verse of the twelfth chapter of Luke that Isa (alaihi Salaam) said, �Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:� (Luke: 12-51) All the best.

It is obvious Jesus was talking figuratively. He was simply saying his message would bring division. He was not and never did advocate violence. Unlike Mohamad. There are dozens of verses in the Quran that advocate violence.