Question about 22:27

AhmadJoyia wrote: Ok, so you do understand that this verse is about the pilgrimage and is not restricted to the life time of the Prophet Ibrahim.

The verse does not actually say this and neither do any of the tafsirs I read (that "they will come to you" means they will not come to Abraham but to places where did did the Pilgrimage), but I am agreeing to your theory for the sake of argument.

AhmadJoyia wrote: If this is correct, then I may agree with you that this prophesy might not have yet been fulfilled in its literal sense that you seems to imply. However, without any statistical survey on each and every aspect, how true your conjecture is, is still to be ascertained with any degree of certainty.

Not only has this prophecy not been fulfilled, it is unlikely to every be fulfilled.
As I pointed out earlier, if "every mounted" is a reference to every mounted animal, then it would be necessary for yaks and water buffaloes and llamas to take their owners to Mecca. Not only would this be ridiculous, it would also be impossible for the first two.
A yak cannot thrive at low altitudes and when the weather rises above 15 degrees, it begins to overheat.

"Conversely, yaks do not thrive at lower altitudes,[15] and begin to suffer from heat exhaustion above about 15 �C (59 �F). Further adaptations to the cold include a thick layer of subcutaneous fat, and an almost complete lack of functional sweat glands.[13]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yak

Water buffalo need large amounts of water where they can soak in, in order not to overheat.

"River buffalo prefer deep water. Swamp buffalo prefer to wallow in mudholes which they make with their horns. During wallowing, they acquire a thick coating of mud.[1] Both are well adapted to a hot and humid climate with temperatures ranging from 0 �C (32 �F) in the winter to 30 �C (86 �F) and greater in the summer. Water availability is important in hot climates, since they need wallows, rivers, or splashing water to assist in thermoregulation. Some breeds are adapted to saline seaside shores and saline sandy terrain.[13]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_buffalo

Allah did not make all mounted animals capable of making a trip to Mecca, even if the Quran's author stated promised Abraham that people will come to him "on every mounted animal".

Also, people cannot ever come from or through "every distant mountain pass", since many mountain passes are located at elevations that are too high for people to be able to safely live at or travel through. Not to mention that TransArctic mountains, which are on a continent where no humans live because the weather is too cold.

Salaam alaikum.

AhmadJoyia wrote: Very funny logic indeed. Although I don't support this understanding of yours at all.

Why not? Did the Quran's author not say "every mounted"? Did he assume that people only ride camels and horses and donkeys and elephants (btw how many people perform Haji on elephants)?

AhmadJoyia wrote: Anyhow, how can you suggest that if it did not happen as yet implies 'would never' happen in future? What if zellions of years later, the evolution make changes to these animals such that enable them to make such a journey? How can you rule out this possibility?

Please show me a precedent for this happening
Also, what makes you think that in a zillion years, people will be traveling across an entire continent on a yak or water buffalo?
They don't even do so today anymore.

AhmadJoyia wrote: Similarly, which mountain pass you think is beyond human habitat?

The Transantarctic mountain range, which is one of the largest in the world, exists on a continent where it is too cold for humans to live. The only people living on some very small parts of that continent are small groups of explorers to make research expeditions.

"Penguins, seals, and sea birds live along the Ross Sea coastline in Victoria Land, while life in the interior of the Transantarctic Range is limited to bacteria,[1] lichens, algae, and fungi. "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transantarctic_Mountains
If not even penguins and seals can survive there, what makes you think that people can?

AhmadJoyia wrote: Even so, how can you rule out this possibility that it would not be so, in future as well? Just imagine a situation in which happening of apocalyptic flooding on present day dry land, push humans to live at those places just for their survival. The answers to such scenarios is impossible to 'rule out' with any degree of certainty, it is for this reason, that your literal method in looking at this verse is, at best, not logical.

If there were to be "apocalyptic flooding" on dry land that forced people to live high in the mountains, traveling to Mecca from these places via the animals we earlier discussed would be even more impossible!

Ahmad: If I say 'Its been raining cats and dogs since morning' and a person like you contradicts me on the basis of my inability to show even a single cat or dog that it rained, do you think I should not laugh at him?

If he means it literally, yes you should laugh.
Just as much as anyone else has the right to laugh at those who claim that the Quran is true in a literal sense.


Airmano

Edited by airmano - 17 February 2016 at 4:32pm

TG12345 wrote: You should be laughing, if the expression "it is raining cats and dogs" is understood by society to mean lots of rain. ...

Oh, really! What makes you think that? If the idioms of a language are taken literally, as you are doing it, its then when people would laugh on such an understanding and not otherwise. Consider this example to refute your comment about the rain.


Edited by AhmadJoyia - 18 February 2016 at 11:16pm