What is this "something else"? |
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The Saint
Senior Member Joined: 07 November 2014 Status: Offline Points: 832 |
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Regarding the Trinity my suggestion to all is that they must read the Word of Yshwe themselves and reach their own conclusion.� For me it is clear that� there was more to Yshwe than a human being.� When I read the whole of scripture from old testament through the new I see the Trinity everywhere in it... beginning with the first 'We'... We made man in 'Our' own image.�<span id="en-KJV-26" ="text="" gen-1-26"=""><sup ="versenum"="">26�And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likenessFor me, seeing the Trinity is easy... it seems to me that all of everything the Creator designed is based on Trinity... the number 3.Peace and blessings to you,Caringheart</span>
[/QUOTE] Greeting CH Have you ever asked yourself why a trinity is needed? Why can't God Almighty function as a single, unitary unit. Why does He need the assistance of two others? Besides, the question about the need no one can overlook the verses in OT that strongly reject other gods. �Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD� Deuteronomy 6:4 �Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.� Isaiah 44:8 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: Isaiah 45:5 �Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me�� Isaiah 46:9 So from these few verses we have seen that God has not once described himself as being three in one. No where in the Old Testament, or in the whole Bible for that matter, is mentioned the word Trinity. God has only said he is one being. What does Jesus say about God? And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he (Jesus) had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: Mark 12:28-29 �I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.� John 5:30 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. John 14:28 Clearly Jesus PBUH himself saw no trinity. |
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The Saint
Senior Member Joined: 07 November 2014 Status: Offline Points: 832 |
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note: now I am putting my replies in orange to make reading easier. Smile
Greetings The Saint, What is your basis for this statement '3000 versions'? I do not agree that you have your information correct. I believe that what you are referring to are translations. Textual content is the same, just written differently for ease of understanding. I wonder, have you ever studied languages? There are many ways of saying a thing, without changing the meaning. I would need you to show me examples to illustrate what you are speaking of. Please go here and see what I am talking about_ http://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/4449/how-many-bibles-not-translations-are-there Also_ http://www.christianbiblereference.org/faq_kjv.htm And here:http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Bible/Text/ Is the Bible that we have in our hands today unchanged? Or has it undergone extensive revisions and alterations? Truth is the first victim in the Christian apologetical literature. This is because if they tell the truth about the Church history and its role in formulating the Bible (or Bibles) as well as the manuscript tradition of the New Testament, belief in the Bible as the "Word" of God would take the beating and the Churches would go absolutely empty. Hence it is not be surprising to find an average Christian's knowledge about his own scriptures is pretty close to zero. Edited by The Saint - 22 November 2014 at 2:17am |
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Caringheart
Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Status: Offline Points: 2991 |
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Greetings The Saint, I don' think He 'needs' the assistance of two others. That is simply the nature of His being. I don't put the Creator into the small little box of the human mind. I believe He is outside of our understanding and that these terms are only for our benefit to try and help us to understand His nature. The Creator can be, and do, anything He/It wants to be or do. Have you ever asked yourself, 'Why would the almighty Creator be limited to having a singleness? a one dimensional nature?' One 'in being' with the Father... I and My Father are One (the Word of Yshwe) Yshwe was God's arm on earth... so yes, He was less on earth, than the Father in heaven, and could only do on earth as the Father sent Him to do. I know it's a hard concept for some, but not for me. It is much like the brain that controls your arm... they are of one body but the arm would do nothing without the brain... the brain is greater than the flesh... it controls the flesh. Peace and blessings, Caringheart Edited by Caringheart - 23 November 2014 at 11:39am |
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Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
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Caringheart
Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Status: Offline Points: 2991 |
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�If you understood Him, it would not be God.�
I happened to hear this today on the radio. It was attributed to St. Augustine. I think it must come from the following; God is not what you imagine or what you think you understand. If you understand you have failed. - Saint Augustine and I seem meant to have heard it, so that I might share it. asalaam and blessings, Caringheart |
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Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
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honeto
Senior Member Male Islam Joined: 20 March 2008 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 2487 |
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Amigo, he is right on that one. Human mind cannot completely or correctly describe nor understand the maker of this universe and everything in it. And it is not expected of him, nor it is in his capacity. Only God can describe who He is, and He did. It is for that reason that a Muslim should never add anything about God other than what God has said in His final word to us. In the Quran Allah describes Himself His qualities and names beside clarifying for us of what He is and what He is not, and that we should not say about God of which we have no knowledge. "..Do you say about Allah that which you do not know?"7:28 Here is one of the most basic yet so powerful description of God given in the Quran about what God is and what He is not. If a person grasp these four verses and hold on to them as a principle, a rule of thumb, he/she will never go wrong in describing God to others: Say: He is Allah, the One and Only; Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; And there is none like unto Him. Hasan Edited by honeto - 24 November 2014 at 2:33pm |
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The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62
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The Saint
Senior Member Joined: 07 November 2014 Status: Offline Points: 832 |
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Clearly Jesus PBUH himself saw no trinity.[/QUOTE]Greetings The Saint,I don' think He 'needs' the assistance of two others.� That is simply the nature of His being.
Sure, He can be anything He wants to be. But why would He want to be three beings only, then? Why not a billion? Also, being one does not mean single dimensional. Being one means all-powerful. Not sharing power with anyone. Independent. Unique. In the Quran He says, nothing like anything that you can dream or imagine. 'One 'in being' with the Father...I and My Father are One� (the Word of Yshwe)Yshwe was God's arm on earth... so yes, He was less on earth, than the Father in heaven, and could only do on earth as the Father sent Him to do.I know it's a hard concept for some, but not for me.It is much like the brain that controls your arm... they are of one body but the arm would do nothing without the brain... the brain is greater than the flesh... it controls the flesh. Jesus said, My father and I are one. Meaning they are one in purpose. Peace and blessings, Caringheart [/QUOTE] Your words above clearly mean they were not co-equal, as the trinity partners are supposed to be. |
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Caringheart
Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Status: Offline Points: 2991 |
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Greetings The Saint, but that's not what He said, Yshwe said, I and My Father are One (the Word of Yshwe) and we are told not to change the Word of God. It was the very thing that enraged the Jewish leaders... they were enraged because He was claiming to be God. 33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. asalaam,Caringheart |
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Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
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The Saint
Senior Member Joined: 07 November 2014 Status: Offline Points: 832 |
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Greetings The Saint,
but that's not what He said, Yshwe said, I and My Father are One (the Word of Yshwe) and we are told not to change the Word of God. Very nice thought, really. You must never change the word of God nor its true meaning. It was the very thing that enraged the Jewish leaders... they were enraged because He was claiming to be God. 33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Here is the context: 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one. 31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? So, in jew jargon everyone is god, even the laity, according to Jesus PBUH. And the jews were enraged because the dialogue was indeed, confusing. |
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