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Muslim75 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Muslim75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 October 2014 at 1:25pm

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Edited by Muslim75 - 26 December 2014 at 11:53am
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Caringheart View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Caringheart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 October 2014 at 1:50pm
Originally posted by Muslim75 Muslim75 wrote:

Colonialism started way before the end of the Ottoman Empire.
 
The Ottoman Empire is not a thing of the past. It represented Allah's order on earth. Allah's order on earth started with Muhammad (saas) and will continue on to the Day of Judgment, without interruption.
 
The Ottomans waged countless wars in the name of Islam and they were entitled to do so. They were successful.
 
IS (The organisation called the Islamic State) is not entitled to wage war in the name of Islam, because they are not representing Islam or the Muslims in any way; and because the conditions for such wars are not met.

Greetings muslim75,

According to your definition, what would those conditions be?

In what way were the Ottoman(islamic) wars of conquest justifiable?

asalaam,
CH

note:  I don't see where Matt Browne was 'insulting islam'... just stating his view of the Ottoman empire... a political power... just as all politcal powers can be critiqued... British empire and colonialism, Nazi regime, Communist(Stalin) regime, Spanish inquisitions, apartheid in S. Africa, etc., etc., etc.
Peace and blessings to you.


Edited by Caringheart - 02 October 2014 at 1:53pm
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis
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TG12345 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TG12345 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 October 2014 at 8:53pm
Originally posted by Matt Browne Matt Browne wrote:

The Ottoman empire was an aggressive form of Islamic imperialism, like the Colonial imperialism of the West that followed. Today we know better. Today we try to stick to following the human rights charter, instead of glorifying past empires.

Originally posted by Muslim75 Muslim75 wrote:

 
This thread is dedicated to the Magnificent Ottoman Empire.
 
Do not come in this thread to insult Islam. I do not wish to say it again.


The "Magnificent" Ottoman Empire? Is this supposed to be some kind of a joke?


How "magnificent" was the sacking of Constantinople? The murder of over a million Armenians? The ethnic cleansing and mass murder of Greeks?

The conquests and occupation of the Balkans? Armenia? Greece?

Do you know who the "janissaries" were? Children taken from their parents, put into the army and forced to fight and kill. Charles Taylor would have been impressed.

Like their "Christian" counterparts who ruled European states, the "Muslim" Ottoman rulers were a bunch of imperialist aggressors, who conquered and occupied those around them.


You call them "magnificent"? Shame on you.

You are no different than the *****s who defend the Crusades.


Edited by TG12345 - 02 October 2014 at 8:57pm
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Matt Browne View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matt Browne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 October 2014 at 2:39am
Originally posted by Muslim75 Muslim75 wrote:

Colonialism started way before the end of the Ottoman Empire.


Yes, of course. Alexander the Great, the Romans and many others, although the term for their empires was different. In my post I was mainly referring to the British and French colonial empires that came when the Ottoman empire continued to decline.

Quote The Ottoman Empire is not a thing of the past. It represented Allah's order on earth. Allah's order on earth started with Muhammad (saas) and will continue on to the Day of Judgment, without interruption. The Ottomans waged countless wars in the name of Islam and they were entitled to do so. They were successful.


Well, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan and others might hold on to this silly dream of a neo-Ottoman empire.

They were entitled to do so? Entitled by whom? No one is entitled to subjugate other peoples or nations. Anyone who claims otherwise is a dangerous radical who has learned nothing from the mistakes of the past.

Quote IS (The organisation called the Islamic State) is not entitled to wage war in the name of Islam, because they are not representing Islam or the Muslims in any way; and because the conditions for such wars are not met.




Edited by Matt Browne - 04 October 2014 at 2:41am
A religion that's intolerant of other religions can't be the world's best religion --Abdel Samad
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people--Eleanor Roosevelt
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Muslim75 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Muslim75 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 October 2014 at 2:10pm

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Edited by Muslim75 - 26 December 2014 at 11:54am
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TG12345 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TG12345 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 October 2014 at 3:17pm
Originally posted by Muslim75 Muslim75 wrote:

In the 15th century, the Ottoman Sultans added to their titles the Turkish title of "Khan" and the Iranian title of "Padishah". In the 16th century, they added the title of "Khalifa". Glorious Ottomans.

They were as "glorious" as the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and the State of Israel.
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kodoo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kodoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 October 2014 at 1:56am
I am from Turkey and I know the history of Ottomans more than any.

Though Ottoman Empire was a barrier to the western invasion (crusades) and I like it, and the nation was Islamic.

Other than that, the leaders were hypocrite. They never worked to serve the nations. They always were after worldly gains. From its beginning. Look up how it was founded. There were many Dynasties after the Seljuks split up. And Ottoman Dynasty fought each and every one of these Muslim Dynasties to have their lands. Later, fighting Iranian Muslims. Later fighting Mamluk Muslims (Egypt) over and over. Look up Ottoman-Egypt wars. The emperors were always after power. They made Muslims fight against each other. They were this sickeningly attached to their thrones and worldly gains that, even they made it permissible to kill every innocent relative of theirs even in the cradle (so that there won't be a fight for throne). Look up how "Mehmed the Conqueror" killed his own baby brother. Look up how "Suleiman the Magnificent" killed 17 of his family members (children, nephews, grandkids in the cradle). etc. They had nothing to do with Islam. They were just a bunch of rulers after worldly gains.

But Ottoman nation was great in general, though they were used against other Muslims (Persia, Egypt) sometimes. And sadly, the history is repeating itself. And now Turkish regime is after joining the EU, to serve NATO causes more and the government is using the nation to fight against Muslims in the region. So sad, how the progeny of that great nation -whcih stood up against western colonialism- is now used for NATO colonialism against Muslims of the region.

Edited by kodoo - 15 October 2014 at 1:59am
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kodoo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kodoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 October 2014 at 1:57am
P.s. Here's a great page to study Muslim history and today: http://www.crescent-online.net

ma salam

Edited by kodoo - 15 October 2014 at 1:57am
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