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Did God turn his back on Israel and Islam? |
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Kish ![]() Guest Group ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 July 2011 Status: Offline Points: 237 |
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According to the Toarh, a father could transfer the birthright if he had a good reason, giving the firstborn�s inheritance to a younger son. In the instances of this noted in the Bible, it was not through whim or favoritism, but there was a basis on which the father determined to make the change in the birthright inheritance. Ishmael, as Abraham�s oldest son, was prospective heir for about 14 years. (Ge 16:16; 17:18-21; 21:5) But at Sarah�s request and with Jehovah God�s approval, Abraham dismissed Ishmael, then about 19 years of age.
SO, a father could transfer the birthright if he had a good reason, giving the firstborn�s inheritance to a younger son. |
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honeto ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Male Islam Joined: 20 March 2008 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 2487 |
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Kish, very clever and decietful, in reality incomplete: You present half of the truth in your point-1. No, according to the Bible God did not turn His back in Ishmael/Islam. Only you closed your eyes after Genesis 21:12. Here is more of what you tried to hide: Genesis 21:12 "And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy handmaid. In all that Sarah saith unto thee, hearken unto her voice. For in Isaac shall thy seed be called. 13 And also of the son of the handmaid will I make a nation, because he is thy seed. 14 And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and took bread and a bottle of water, and gave it unto Hagar, putting it on her shoulder, and gave her the child, and sent her away. And she departed, and wandered in the wilderness of Beer-sheba. 15 And the water in the bottle was spent, and she cast the child under one of the shrubs. 16 And she went, and sat her down over against him a good way off, as it were a bowshot. For she said, Let me not look upon the death of the child. And she sat over against him, and lifted up her voice, and wept. 17 And God heard the voice of the lad. And the angel of God called to Hagar out of heaven, and said unto her, What aileth thee, Hagar? Fear not. For God hath heard the voice of the lad where he is. 18 Arise, lift up the lad, and hold him in thy hand. For I will make him a great nation. 19 And God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water. And she went, and filled the bottle with water, and gave the lad drink. 20 And God was with the lad, and he grew...." Nice half try Kish but the truth is in the verses above. "God was with the lad (Ishamel)" did not mean God turned his back on him, as you are trying to make it look like. Hasan Edited by honeto - 05 January 2013 at 1:40pm |
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The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62
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Friendship ![]() Senior Member ![]() Joined: 24 August 2008 Status: Offline Points: 884 |
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Assalamu alaika Kish.
Please do not adulterate the Torah. I implore you to use commonsense and reasoning that gift from the G-d of Abraham that raised us above all His creations. When Abraham was separating Hegar and her son he gave them what they wanted for their journey- an animal skin full of water and breed. Gen 25 did not in anyway state how the animals of Abraham were shared. if you are interested ask the Rabbis and here the truth from them. The Rabbis said that Keturah was the name of Hajar and that Ishmael lived also in Palestine with Abraham. Friendship. |
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Kish ![]() Guest Group ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 July 2011 Status: Offline Points: 237 |
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Hasan, like the Jews/Israel, Ishmael eventually turned his back on the God of Abraham which resulted in God turning his back on Ishmael. God kept his promise as he always does, Ishmael had twelve sons and became a nation but like the Nation of Israel they did not keep following the God of Abraham and Isaac. As shown in the scriptures I posted he was not buried along with his family, an heir of the family, did not serve Abraham�s God, Jehovah. In fact they hated his God, this is very well documented. Ps. 83:2, 6 For, look! your very enemies (Ish′ma�el�ites ) are in an uproar; And the very ones intensely hating you have raised [their] head. . . the Ish′ma�el�ites!!! Because of Ishmael�s dismissal and hatred for Isaac, his heart became harden, that is why even today there is still great animosity between Arabs and Israelis, this hatred was handed down to his descendants. I only say this to show as I mentioned earlier, God would not use any descendants of his because of these reasons and because of the promise he made to Abraham and Sarah NOT Abraham and Hagar. |
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Caringheart ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 02 March 2012 Status: Offline Points: 2991 |
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I am reminded of a line from Lord of the Rings, by C.S.Lewis, regarding gollum...
'I feel that he too has his part that he must play...' Ishmael too has his part to play, and Muhammad is the one to play out this part, in this drama called life which the Creator has laid out for us. It is all written in the Bible for those with eyes to see.
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honeto ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Male Islam Joined: 20 March 2008 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 2487 |
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Kish,
that goes against what God said in Genesis 21:18 where God himself is quoted to have said: "18 Arise, lift up the lad, and hold him in thy hand. For I will make him a great nation." So, the problem is in the contents, either one can be true. God says he will make him a great nation. I know God does not say two different things at once. So the problem is in the book. Hasan |
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The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62
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Kish ![]() Guest Group ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 July 2011 Status: Offline Points: 237 |
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Hasan, according to Genesis 17:20 God said �He will certainly produce twelve chieftains.� Was that not a great nation as God promised despite the fact that Isaac was being mistreated badly by Ishmael? Just as God promised to preserve and protect his word which he did, God promised Ishmael to be a great nation which he did, how is that two different things? The problem Hasan, is not God and his inspired contents but Muslims misinterpretation of God�s inspired contents. So, you�re right God does not say two different things at once. |
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honeto ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Male Islam Joined: 20 March 2008 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 2487 |
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Kish,
....and that misinterpretation is ?? and what is this mistreatment of Isaac by Ishmael, from where do you get that? Hasan |
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The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62
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