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Points: 1135 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Community Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 July 2005 at 2:53am

true friendship can only be based on truth, and if a jew or christian denies the prophet muhammed then there can be no true friendship.

But there can be kindness and justice aslong as they do not fight the faithful because of their faith or drive them out of their homes,

as for taking them as awliyaa(those you take as authorities and guardian protectors) then this is not possible, because they deny the truth, and if one takes them as guardians, protectors or as advisors in important affairs then this can be harmful for the faithful. The Waliy of the faithful is Allah, the messenger and the faithful(wether jew christian or muslim if they all accept that muhammed was indeed the messenger of Allah who came with the truth.) But first and foremost, the only waliy the faithful have is Allah.
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Points: 4752 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whisper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 July 2005 at 10:12am
What a balanced post! Just one small and perhaps unrelated question; is it true that the Prophet had a very close relationship with the Jews in Makkah with the exception of perhaps just two troublesome tribes?
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Points: 80 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocitreal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 July 2005 at 11:02am
Originally posted by Community Community wrote:

Did you read the answers i gave you in the post before the post you refer to?

yes i did and i thank you for the translations.

It appears that my interpretations of these verses is not off base then.



Edited by rocitreal
Peace, its more than a word its a dream.
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Points: 1135 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Community Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 July 2005 at 3:01pm

Rocitreal i also explained the word awliyya in that post as well as translated the verses you asked for.

"What a balanced post! Just one small and perhaps unrelated question; is it true that the Prophet had a very close relationship with the Jews in Makkah with the exception of perhaps just two troublesome tribes" [Quote Whisper]

I am not familiar with this but i do not see why it would not be possible. I even heard that the Prophet and the faithful fought in deffence of jewish and christian tribes who did not side with the polytheists in fighting the faithful.

We can not ask the jews and christians to defend us, but they can ask for us to defend them.
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Points: 4752 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whisper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2005 at 6:23am

Brother, thanks. I have heard and hold reasons to believe that the Prophet had ever denounced only two particular mischievious tribes in Hejaz (as Saudi Arabia was then known). Other than that the Muslims enjoyed a very close relationship with these "People of the Book".

I believe that his first wife was from an influential Jewish family. Her uncle was a Jewish scholar / Rabi of considerable standing, based somewhere on the Syrian border and, he wsa quite active in arranging their marriage.

Besides, I have seen far more examples of these grandsons of Ibraheem making "V" signs together in history before our Brit Special services started to spin all these "ancient hatreds" - as their most usual "Divide and RULE" policy to gain a footprint in the Ottoman lands - just after the Greek wars.

El Andalus and Ottoman Turkey are two of the most brilliant examples of such Mulims, Jewish and Christian Joint Ventures.

Do these dollar worshipper keep throwing bones of contentions between these people just for the fear of losing their global financial hold in case these begin to hug each other, just once again?

Has anyone seen "AMERICATHONS"? Great movie. It's on this subject!!
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Points: 80 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocitreal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2005 at 7:09pm

now that we have established that only kind relations are allowed under the Qu'ran, and no Believer should take unbeliever as a friend i was wondering about this verse.

Sura 4:89 says "They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper."

what about this verse, isnt this advocating violence prior to any altercation ?



Edited by rocitreal
Peace, its more than a word its a dream.
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Points: 3984 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Israfil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2005 at 7:35pm

Ro, before you go quoting versus  from the Qur'an mak sure you understand the relevance and their history before you say that thes eversus advocate violence.
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Points: 80 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocitreal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2005 at 9:22pm

History does tell much, but are not the Qu'ran's verses just as relevent today as ever ?  I can listen & truely search for rational explainations of these type of verses which paint a differant picture of Islam that many of you very nice people have to paint.  I just search for understanding, I hope you see this.

thanks, Rocitreal



Edited by rocitreal
Peace, its more than a word its a dream.
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