Want to know about Halal Chicken. |
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Sign*Reader
Senior Member Joined: 02 November 2005 Status: Offline Points: 3352 |
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The signs in Quran listing that deal with consumption of meat products...
5:4 (Y. Ali) They ask thee what is lawful to them (as food). Say: lawful unto you are (all) things good and pure: and what ye have taught your trained hunting animals (to catch) in the manner directed to you by Allah. eat what they catch for you, but pronounce the name of Allah over it: and fear Allah. for Allah is swift in taking account. 5:5 (Y. Ali) This day are (all) things good and pure made lawful unto you. The food of the People of the Book is lawful unto you and yours is lawful unto them. (Lawful unto you in marriage) are (not only) chaste women who are believers, but chaste women among the People of the Book, revealed before your time,- when ye give them their due dowers, and desire chastity, not lewdness, nor secret intrigues if any one rejects faith, fruitless is his work, and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost (all spiritual good). 6:121 (Y. Ali) Eat not of (meats) on which Allah's name hath not been pronounced: That would be impiety. But the evil ones ever inspire their friends to contend with you if ye were to obey them, ye would indeed be Pagans. 20:81 (Y. Ali) (Saying): "Eat of the good things We have provided for your sustenance, but commit no excess therein, lest My Wrath should justly descend on you: and those on whom descends My Wrath do perish indeed! Now one has to define who are the people of the book & who takes care of the meat products in the super markets? The scholars like Uthaymeen and others who never visited or investigated the faiths of present day population in the west and the food products they consume may be not be well armed to guide through this maze! IMHO when Allah revealed the allowance for permitting of the people of the book food- the Christians did follow a semblance of an acceptable slaughtering method and of course the Jews had strict dietary laws...This was in no way giving them the catering license but rather accepting their food as treats to have discussions as necessary! The portion of the orthodoxy amongst the Israelite people who had Kosher dietary laws and that even today help us consume their stuff without too much quibbles and quandaries.. Many years back we had a panel discussion at the Islamic center where a Christian pastor and Jewish Rabbi spoke about the definition of their religion.. It was an eye opening for me that the Christian pastor rejected Muslim's definition of Christians as the people of the book rather he said they should known as people about a person Jesus Christ who died for their redemption every thing else was of no significance! If remember it correctly the rabbi was from the reformed synagogue that you figure yourself they will consume anything haram with gusto- the Sin City is their creation... So where does it leave you? pretty much up in the wilderness or up the creek if you don't use what is up in your cranium ... On the food stuff sold in the super markets or franchised outlets; their supply chain is coming from the industrial outfits not necessarily owned by the people of the book applying their faith in the business processing food stuff...It could be owned by a Hindu or Sikh or non believer... no way of knowing that ... Now come to the industrial assembly line: Industrial Slaughter Burns occur at the sites of contact
with the electrodes. Those due to torture of human beings may be very
small. They have been detected histologically in biopsies taken from victims
at the Rehabilitation and Research Center for Torture Victims in Copenhagen.
Massive burns and charring are seen at the sites where the electrodes
are attached when the electric chair is used. Why, then, is it so widely believed that electrical stunning is humane? These days you aren't even sure which of the processed foods sold in super markets is halal or haram the porcine additives are so darn common that it is not even funny... let me give an examples if you visit the famous chips manufacturing website it list the products that do not contain pork enzymes and then think about what do contain them? But you don't know... So to play safe is avoiding that will get you deeper about other things cuz it is a slippery slope... Point here is very simple one that has been covered by the sign 6:121 Edited by Sign*Reader - 21 June 2009 at 1:27am |
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Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
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tahmid11
Starter Male Joined: 14 June 2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6 |
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It was proven in Saheeh al-Bukhaari from �Aa�ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) that some people came to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and said: �Some people bring us meat and we do not know whether they mentioned the name of Allaah over it or not.� He said: �Say the name of Allaah yourselves then eat.� I said: They (the people who brought the meat) were new in Islam and they were not sure whether they said the name of Allaah (when slaughtering the meat) or not. So he said: Say the name of Allaah yourself and eat. So it is permissible to eat even if we do not know whether the name of Allaah has been pronounced over the meat or not. Similarly it is permissible to eat even if we do not know whether it was slaughtered in the proper manner or not, because if the action was done by the appropriate people, the basic principle is that it is valid unless there is evidence to the contrary.
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Sign*Reader
Senior Member Joined: 02 November 2005 Status: Offline Points: 3352 |
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This hadith is talking about some new reverts who brought meat as gift! This was one time thing and that was OKd by Prophet to respect the goodwill of new Muslims...and also not shake the delicate condition of their faith...which is not same you going to the super market that sells animals killed by violence on the industrial line ...Don't you see an obvious distinction! Remember the prohibition on booze was not effected till the faith was firmly established amongst the companions and when the order of its prohibition came the gutters of Madina's over flowed with booze...that is called true faith not looking for the loopholes... Edited by Sign*Reader - 21 June 2009 at 1:20am |
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Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
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Chrysalis
Senior Member Joined: 25 November 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2033 |
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One thing I noticed in the ahadith is, that they talk mostly about meat which is already assumed to be slaughtered, but there is uncertainty about Allah's name being invoked on it.
Before Allah's name is invoked, another condition is that the meat needs to be slaughtered. . . like Signreader said - the meat in Western countries, even by 'people of the book' is not slaughtered. (with the exception of kosher for the orthodox jews) The animal is killed before it is cut up. That would put it in the forbidden (dead meat, blood) category (verses signreader mentioned) . . . even if you invoke Allah's name on dead-meat, does not make it halal.
The only scenario where the above ahadith & fatwas apply is in case the animal is 'slightly stunned' yet alive, and is slaughtered before dying. (Abuaiysha's post # 4 & 5). Vast majority of all slaughter houses in the West do not slaughter an animal before death . . . and this is kind of public knowledge, so in most circumstances a muslim cannot even claim 'i am not sure, so I guess i can get away with it' . . .
Perhaps you can find Kosher meat? Kosher is more widely available than halal.
Allah knows best ofcourse. . . .
Edited by Chrysalis - 21 June 2009 at 2:09am |
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"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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Chrysalis
Senior Member Joined: 25 November 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2033 |
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Stunning before slaughter
I was under the impression that animals died after stunning - however I looked it up, and apparently the stunning is only to render the animal unconcious. If the stunning kills the animal before slaughter, the meat is rendered unfit for marketing.
Methods of Slaughter
Two Kinds of Stunning The captive bolt may penetrate the skull and destroy brain tissue, or cause a considerable rise in intracranial pressure. These result in instantaneous loss of consciousness (as a knock-out does in boxing), followed by collapse of the animal. If the brain tissue is not destroyed, the animal may come round, if the carotid arteries and jugular veins are not cut soon ("sticking"). Instant unconsciousness occurs if the aim is accurate, the animal is still, and the device works. Electrical stunning involves passing a large voltage across the animal's brain. Slaughtermen, butchers, the Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, the People's Dispensary for Sick Animals, Compassion in World Farming and most people who eat meat, assume that the electric current causes instantaneous unconsciousness, so that the animals feel no pain. Unfortunately, there is evidence that this assumption may not be warranted. ...scientific reason...
Many allegations have been made that Islamic slaughter is not humane to animals. However, Professor Schultz and his colleague Dr. Hazim of the Hanover University, Germany, proved through an experiment, using an electroencephalograph (EEG) and electrocardiogram (ECG) that *Islamic slaughter is THE humane method of slaughter* and captive bolt stunning, practiced by the Western method, causes severe pain to the animal. The results surprised many. Experimental Details: 1. Several electrodes were surgically implanted at various points of the skull of all animals, touching the surface of thebrain. 2. The animals were allowed to recover for several weeks. 3. Some animals were slaughtered by making a swift, deep incision with a sharp knife on the neck cutting the jugular veins and carotid Arteries of both sides; as also the trachea and esophagusHalal Method. 4. Some animals were stunned using a captive bolt pistol humane slaughter by the western method. 5. During the experiment, EEG and ECG were recorded on all animals to record the condition of the brain and heart during the course of slaughter and stunning. I - Halal Method 1. The first three seconds from the time of Islamic slaughter as recorded on the EEG did not show any change from the graph before slaughter, thus indicating that the animal did not feel any pain during or immediately after the incision. 2. For the following 3 seconds, the EEG recorded a condition of deep sleep - unconsciousness. This is due to a large quantity of blood gushing out from the body. 3. After the above mentioned 6 seconds, the EEG recorded zero level, showing no feeling of pain at all. 4. As the brain message (EEG) dropped to zero level, the heart was still pounding and the body convulsing vigorously (a reflex action of the spinal cord) driving maximum blood from the body: resulting in hygienic meat for the consumer. II - Western method by C.B.P. Stunning 1. The animals were apparently unconscious soon after stunning. 2. EEG showed severe pain immediately after stunning. 3. The hearts of the animal stunned by C.B.P. stopped beating earlier as compared to those of the animals slaughtered according to the Halal method resulting in the retention of more blood inthe meat. This in turn is unhygienic for the consumer. (Many thanks to Muslim Students Organization - University of Miami) KOSHER SLAUGHTER:
Question: Why aren't animals stunned first before they are ritually slaughtered? by Rabbi Barry Dov Lerner
Answer: The laws of kosher slaughter (shechita) are designed to be the most humane possible, preventing pain to living creatures (tza'ar ba'alei hayim), by a swift and immediate death. |
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"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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Akhe Abdullah
Senior Member Male Joined: 19 November 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1252 |
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Salams, Brothers and Sisters.JazakAllah Kheiran for all the info,I have a question,Do the same rules apply as we can eat it instead of starving to death?I would think that it would but im not sure.
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Chrysalis
Senior Member Joined: 25 November 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2033 |
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If one is starving to death, and has no other alternative - then alhamdulilah Allah provides flexibility. In such dire cases, muslims can even wat pork, or non-halal meat - as long as they consume enough to sustain them.
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"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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Akhe Abdullah
Senior Member Male Joined: 19 November 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1252 |
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As Salamu Alaikum, Chrysalis.Shokran
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