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Not necessarily domestic violence

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Gulliver View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gulliver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 April 2009 at 12:55pm
 
It is important that these issues are seriously looked at within religions. And those who profess to take their respective religions seriously, should not get defensive when they are raised.
 
Same with Catholicism. Mention sexual abuse, and you'd think you had forty horns on your head, with the more conservative types. Though you can see it too with some of the more 'liberal'. They think you exaggerate - make it up. I swear to God, if their own children were laying dead in front of them, they'd still be in denial. I see this happening too with Islam. And it's happening here when people go on the defensive, instead of looking at these issues honestly, and at ways of dealing with them. You'd have a duty before God to tackle them I'd imagine.
 
I think it is, to a degree, more important that they be looked at within religious contexts -  moreso, because these things are done by some in the belief that God sanctions these kinds of behaviours.
 
Yes - we all know God does not permit or allow these things. At least I hope not :-) But what is it about the religion - ANY religion, the misunderstandings of that religion by however few, or many - that make some believe otherwise - that they can abuse and murder 'in the name of God'.
 
One child - one abused woman, or man is worth the effort surely. What is it about a religion, its teachings, or lack of proper teaching that makes men believe they have a right to do these things to any woman or child.
 
Within Catholicism - there is 'clericalism' - just one aspect of the phenomena of abuse, its toleration and cover up. The male clerical elite. The image of the priesthood as something 'holy' - immaculate - the reputation of which must be kept as such at any cost - even the cost of lives being destroyed, not least the most vulnerable and innocent. It's in many ways a kind of men only club. Patriarchal system. Open to abuses at so very many levels.
 
Same in Islam. You can say there is no priesthood. No hierarchy. I disagree. Imams, sholars etc are no different. They have power and they have the power to seriously abuse other human beings. Not saying all or many do. But that potential is real, and really there.  
 
If these things are happening, and yes they are happening the world over, within and outside of religious contexts; then shouldn't those who know what the religion truly teaches not be out their fighting this level of ignorance that is so destructive to individuals, society and to the name of God, and belief in God by people who might otherwise embrace belief.
 
I'd like to know, to understand what  an 'honour killing' is supposed to be, to mean. Why does something like this happen. Where did the men get the idea they can do this, have a right to do it. They got it from somewhere, and it's linked to religion somehow, rightly or wrongly. Why. There is nothing wrong with naming and shaming evil. And trying to understand and do something about it. It does not mean that the religion itself is evil or bad, or that those who truly believe are deluded or deceived.
 
Try really tackling these things in your relgion. Your Christian religion or your Islamic religion, and see where the greatest opposition comes from :-) You might be pleasantly, or very unpleasantly surprised. Don't expect an easy ride though.
 
I have found this in Christian Catholicism. When you speak of terrible abuses, and not just from books, but from real experience and witnessing. You get called all sorts some times. And the worst attacks come from the ones who should really be on your side - fighthing the rot, the evil, rooting it out 'in the name of God'.  But no, they get all defensive and rant and rave. And you try and understand why they are like that. Denial is a big factor. But I think too that people do at times find it difficult to separate chaff from wheat within their respective religions. It seems, almost, that to mention the realities of abuses of whatever kind, is somehow to be seen to attack their very faith, to wish to undermine it in some way. The faith that is the most precious and beautiful thing to them. That you defile it by mentioning these things at all. It's true. People are strange critters at times - not least in matters religious.  When you are really wanting, trying to strengthen your own faith, and theirs and come together to do what is right 'in the name of God' and those abused in the name of that religion.
 
Isn't that the 'outer' jihad. That those who truly believe, know the real teachings of the religion, fight the ignorances of those who harm that belief for others within the religion and for those who might otherwise look to knowing and embracing that religion. The "enemy within".
 
Be prepared for the 'battle' of your life ;-)
 
 
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Shasta'sAunt View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shasta'sAunt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 April 2009 at 1:13pm
[QUOTE=believer]

Yes lovesakeenah-

My point for this post:
But attempts to introduce harsher sentences have been blocked in Jordan's parliament, where the predominantly conservative Bedouin legislators argue that tougher penalties would lead to adultery.
 
I find it interesting that feminist are so concerned about equal rights and equal pay for women then ignore something as horrific as this.
 
[/QUOTE]
 
Believer,
 
I believe that the fact that Jordan is not an Islamic government has already been established.  Blaming Islam for lack of harsher sentencing in Jordan would be the same as blaming Christianity for lack of harsher sentencing in the U.S..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote believer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 April 2009 at 5:19am
Shasta- No because it is tied up in religion in one country and secular law in another.  In the US there is separation of church and state.  Jordan is a Muslim country- 90 % of the country is Muslim, as are the legislators.
 
From the article.
But attempts to introduce harsher sentences have been blocked in Jordan's parliament, where the predominantly conservative Bedouin legislators argue that tougher penalties would lead to adultery.
 
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shasta'sAunt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 April 2009 at 1:26pm
Originally posted by believer believer wrote:

Shasta- No because it is tied up in religion in one country and secular law in another.  In the US there is separation of church and state.  Jordan is a Muslim country- 90 % of the country is Muslim, as are the legislators.
 
From the article.
But attempts to introduce harsher sentences have been blocked in Jordan's parliament, where the predominantly conservative Bedouin legislators argue that tougher penalties would lead to adultery.
 
 
Yes, much the same as laws regarding stem cell research, same sex marriage, and sex education were blocked and are being blocked by the conservative Republicans in the U.S. who think that such laws would/will lead to fetuses being killed, the end of civilization as we know it, and rampant teen sex...... in that order.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote believer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 April 2009 at 8:34am
Shasta, you really need to do more research on this topic - "Yes, much the same as laws regarding stem cell research, same sex marriage, and sex education were blocked and are being blocked by the conservative Republicans in the U.S. who think that such laws would/will lead to fetuses being killed, the end of civilization as we know it, and rampant teen sex...... in that order. "
 
Actually there has been much more success with mature stem cell research then ever thought possible.  Also there is not the chance of immune rejection and no need for immune supressing drugs.
 
There is same sex marriage in Islam?
John 3
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shasta'sAunt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 April 2009 at 1:02pm
Originally posted by believer believer wrote:

Shasta, you really need to do more research on this topic - "Yes, much the same as laws regarding stem cell research, same sex marriage, and sex education were blocked and are being blocked by the conservative Republicans in the U.S. who think that such laws would/will lead to fetuses being killed, the end of civilization as we know it, and rampant teen sex...... in that order. "
 
Actually there has been much more success with mature stem cell research then ever thought possible.  Also there is not the chance of immune rejection and no need for immune supressing drugs.
 
There is same sex marriage in Islam?
 
I think you have that wrong, Christians need to do more research on this topic, I think stem cell research is great. However many Christians, including our last president,  think it is evil:
 

Bush stands firm against US stem-cell bill

The US Senate Wednesday voted in favor of funding stem-cell research on human embryos, but President George W. Bush promptly vowed to veto the bill which has incensed Christian conservatives....

..."This bill crosses a moral line that I and many others find troubling," Bush said. "If it advances all the way through Congress to my desk, I will veto it."

"I believe this will encourage taxpayer money to be spent on the destruction or endangerment of living human embryos -- raising serious moral concerns for millions of Americans."....

http://rawstory.com/news/afp/Bush_stands_firm_against_US_stem_ce_04112007.html
 
Catholic Church, Evangelical Christian team up against stem-cell research in CA
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San Francisco, Calif., Sep 3, 2004 / 12:00 am (CNA).- The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops and a wealthy evangelical Christian are the major funders to date of a campaign against a California ballot measure that would fund stem-cell research and cloning in the state, reported The Associated Press.

Each contributed $50,000 this week to separate campaign groups, which have raised $115,000 combined. Ballot measure supporters have raised about $12 million.

The measure, which is listed on the Nov. 2 ballot as Proposition 71, would have the state borrow $3 billion to pay for the controversial research.

"We believe life begins at the moment of conception," said USCCB spokesperson Sr. Mary Ann Walsh. "Stem-cell research involves the taking of a human life."

As a result, the USCCB contributed $50,000 to a new campaign committee, called Californians Against Loan and Clone, created by the Catholic Church of California.

Evangelical Christian Howard Ahmanson Jr. made a $50,000 contribution to the official opposition campaign group called Doctors, Patients & Taxpayers for Fiscal Responsibility.

As heir to a savings and loan fortune, Ahmanson finances many Christian organizations and non-denominational think tanks, including the Seattle-based Discovery Institute, which disputes much of Charles Darwin's theory of evolution, reported the AP.

Some women's groups also oppose the research because of its insatiable need for fertilized eggs, most of which are now donated by fertility clinics with surplus supplies."

and lobbied successfully against it. It is only now with Obama in office that the ban on this research is being reversed...
 

Obama Reverses Course, Lifts Stem Cell Ban

President Signs Executive Order Approving Federal Funds for Stem Cell Research

By DAN CHILDS and LISA STARK
March 9, 2009
 
In what has been interpreted as a direct rebuke of former President George W. Bush, President Obama said today that his administration would make "scientific decisions based on facts, not ideology."
 
Enlightenment at last....
See how religious beliefs can affect the "secular" government of even the United States?
 
There is no same sex marriage in Islam, but what does that have to do with it being banned for religious reasons in the U.S.?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote believer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2009 at 1:30pm
Bush was agaisnt embryonic stem cell research not adult stem cell research.
 
"scientific decisions based on facts, not ideology." -
no cures or treatnments have come from embryonic stem cell research.
 
In Islam himosexuality is not allowed.  Isn't ihomosexuality punished for religious reasons?  I know in Iran thousands have been executed for being gay.  I'm not sure what your point is here.

"We believe life begins at the moment of conception," said USCCB spokesperson Sr. Mary Ann Walsh. "Stem-cell research involves the taking of a human life."

So you feel the peoples belief of these people should be tossed aside- and their tax money used to kill what they believe to be human life?

John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote believer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2009 at 1:34pm
Really it is too bad stem cell research isn't decided state by state- that way a state with the majority of Christian voters could choose to work with adult stem cells and a state with atheist, Muslim voters could do what ever.
 
My daughter is a Type 1 Diabetic- she says she will never kill an embryo to use stem cells.


Edited by believer - 02 May 2009 at 1:35pm
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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