Where Islam & Christian Agree and Differ |
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believer
Guest Group Joined: 08 January 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1397 |
Posted: 16 March 2009 at 1:06pm | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
2:130
And who shuns/turns away from Abraham's religion/faith except who made himself ignorant/foolish ?And We had chosen/purified him in the present world, and that he is in the end (other life) from (E) the correct/righteous.
Nur - that is where your thinking is wrong- Jesus did not want to save Himself. He knew what the plan was. Jesus' Kingdom is not here on earth.
Many Muslims have been told that Jesus did not complete His mission one earth Please read:
John 16
16"In a little while you will see me no more, and then after a little while you will see me."
17Some of his disciples said to one another, "What does he mean by saying, 'In a little while you will see me no more, and then after a little while you will see me,' and 'Because I am going to the Father'?" 18They kept asking, "What does he mean by 'a little while'? We don't understand what he is saying."
19Jesus saw that they wanted to ask him about this, so he said to them, "Are you asking one another what I meant when I said, 'In a little while you will see me no more, and then after a little while you will see me'? 20I tell you the truth, you will weep and mourn while the world rejoices. You will grieve, but your grief will turn to joy. John 17
1After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: "Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. 4I have brought you glory on earth by completing the work you gave me to do. 5And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began. |
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John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. |
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Shasta'sAunt
Senior Member Female Joined: 29 March 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1930 |
Posted: 16 March 2009 at 2:10pm | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
"All authourity on heaven and earth has been given to Christ why after 500 years do we need someone elses authority."
According to the Bible all authority has not been given to Jesus:
Matthew 24: 35"Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.
36"But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. Edited by Shasta'sAunt - 16 March 2009 at 2:13pm |
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�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt |
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Nazarene
Senior Member Male Joined: 05 September 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 298 |
Posted: 16 March 2009 at 6:07pm | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
peace to you and gods blessings!
here's a cool vid. to help out on why it took some 600 yrs. for muhammad to come.
title " WHY DID GOD WAIT SO LONG?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFmKZb7I8hg
also here's a good book on the true history of christanity
BEYOND BELIEF by ELAIN PAGELS
ALSO
READ THE GOSPEL OF THOMAS by STEVEN DAVIES
READ THE GOSPEL OF PHILLP
READ THE GOSPEL OF THE HOLY TWELVE.
as you will find in islam we love QUESTIONS!
muslims will rarely ever{ i've never experenced it } tell you not to read this or do not watch that as most christain leaders direct thier " flock " to do.
and yes i was a active christain all my life.
my mother was a decon in the amrican baptist church.
and my father is curently a decon at the church.
i know what i was taught about islam in the church. the samethings you were taught. lies!
when you can look at the bible with the same standards as the church implores towards others then you may begin to see.
love
leland Edited by Nazarene - 16 March 2009 at 7:42pm |
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love for all conquers all
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honeto
Senior Member Male Islam Joined: 20 March 2008 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 2487 |
Posted: 16 March 2009 at 6:35pm | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jouberar,
welcome to this Islamic website, a source for guidance for you and for all who seek it in truth. I can guarentee you that you will not only learn more about Islam but you will also discover the truth about your own belief that you have overlooked so far.
Most of what you wrote has already been discussed and answered in detail in various posts on various threads.
It is useless to agrue about others, if they sinned or not when we ourselves deny the sins we do on a regular basis and think no one has seen them, just a bit disbelief on our own part. As a Muslim we acknowledge that its only ourself that we will answer for when accountablity/ the Day of Judgement comes. As you don't believe so far on accountablity 'cause you belief Jesus has paid for your sins, you may not observe the same standards when it comes to truth vs falsehood.
There is no doubt for a true believer who submits to God alone, that:
God is One God.
God is not a male nor a female, not limited to a body form.
Everything and everyone other than God is His creation, none can become equal to God nor over power God.
God is not born, nor God dies.
God does not have sons, daughters, mother or a father, nor a wife nor a husband.
God does not have any needs nor wants.
God does not get tired, nor God grieves.
For God, nothing is difficult, nor anything out of God's reach, nor things go out of God's control.
God knows All, even the deepest secrects of the hearts.
God grants Power to whom God wills.
God does not incarnate into other forms, nor God take shape of one of His creatures whether be a human, an elephant, a monkey, a tree or so on.
God is Merciful and Forgiving, God Loves those who Obey and seek God's pleasure. For them God has said to have prepared Forgiveness for their mistakes and a reward beyond measure.
Now to answer to some of what you wrote, as I said most of it has already been discussed but I will briefly address some of what you wrote. You may have a good intention when writing them but you need to know truth about them, and not just repeating what you've heard from others.
You wrote: First we know that all authority on heaven and earth has been given to Christ (Matt 28:18).
Now that raises at leat two issues for me, 1- if you note the word "given" is the key. Given by who, of course who else can give, God Almighty. So there is a clear distinction between who can give or grant.
Now 2-"all authority" that seems a bit exaguration since we see verse in the Bible that show how much authority he was given for example when he said, "John 5:30 "By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me." Jesus according to this verse seeks pleasure of one who sent him, just like I as a Muslim do, seek pleasure of my maker, all of God's prophets were sent for this purpose to practice and teach to seek the pleasure of their maker.
Then further you wrote:
"Fourthly, Jesus intercedes for us, this He began to do before He left earth (John 17:1-26) This means that Jesus is praying for you now, today. Because He is all powerful He is able to turn His attention to all of us individually. He will continue this ministry as long as any of His people are on earth (John 17:20). "
You missed one point that is more common than that: "Jesus died for your sins" a line I hear more often from preachers. They quote John 2:1-2 "... he himself (Jesus) is the propitaion for our sins, and not for our sins only but also for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD"
Now contradictory to the above quote there are those i.e. Matthew 12:36-37 36But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. 37For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned."
Now to close I may add this verse from your trusted source that shows that to whom you call God, indead was a servant of God and shared the same and Only God as a Muslim I worship and serve to as well:
John 20:17 "'........I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God."
John 14:28 " ........the Father is greater than I"
And here is the confirmed truth:
The Quran 3:59 "Verily, in the sight of God, the nature of jesus is as the nature of Adam, whom He created out of dust and then said unto him, "Be" - and he is"
Hasan
Edited by honeto - 16 March 2009 at 6:53pm |
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The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62
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believer
Guest Group Joined: 08 January 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1397 |
Posted: 18 March 2009 at 7:11am | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
Shasta- good question Matthew 28
18Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
If you read the Gospels you will notice that Jesus is always humble and never shows His power to make Himself greater then the Father, GOD.
Does all authority of heaven and earth include knowledge of the end of earth? Is there a reason why man should not know the date of the end of the earth?
Notice that authority does not always include knowledge- definition #5 does include it.
LOL!! honeto- Because the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are One True GOD none of them can go against each other. GOD's WORD made flesh can not go against GOD's plan.
GOD is one so how can Jesus not do what GOD has given Him authority to do?
Muslims are trying to make Jesus a renegade partner to GOD, remember GOD is ONE.
His word/expression He threw it away to Mary, and a Soul/Spirit from Him
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John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. |
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semar
Senior Member Male Islam Joined: 11 March 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1830 |
Posted: 18 March 2009 at 11:42am | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
If so Jesus was not god, he was a slave of God, he was messenger of God, he was a helper of God. That what Muslim always say. What kind of God, if he didn't have his own will. What kind of God if he just received authority from the higher God. What kind of God if he need approval from the other God. What kind of God if he didn't have absolute authority and absolute will. God should has absolute authority on everything, no need permission, no need approval, no need instruction, no need guideline from other authority. Edited by icforumadmin - 18 March 2009 at 5:11pm |
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honeto
Senior Member Male Islam Joined: 20 March 2008 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 2487 |
Posted: 18 March 2009 at 2:21pm | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
believer wrote:
"If you read the Gospels you will notice that Jesus is always humble and never shows His power to make Himself greater then the Father, GOD. "
And that's all we have been trying to tell you, one that humbles (Jesus) to God is not God. You understand it through logic but bound to repeat others words that "he is also God".
Now that you spoke for yourself, you are very clear in your belief, that Jesus humbled himself to God. Now we all know that its only God that does not humble nor serve nor obey to anyone, but Jesus did as you acknowledge, but refuse to proclaim?
Hasan
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The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62
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Shasta'sAunt
Senior Member Female Joined: 29 March 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1930 |
Posted: 18 March 2009 at 5:10pm | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
[QUOTE=believer]
Shasta- good question Matthew 28
18Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
If you read the Gospels you will notice that Jesus is always humble and never shows His power to make Himself greater then the Father, GOD. Does all authority of heaven and earth include knowledge of the end of earth? Is there a reason why man should not know the date of the end of the earth?
Notice that authority does not always include knowledge- definition #5 does include it.
LOL!! honeto- Because the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are One True GOD none of them can go against each other. GOD's WORD made flesh can not go against GOD's plan.
GOD is one so how can Jesus not do what GOD has given Him authority to do?
Muslims are trying to make Jesus a renegade partner to GOD, remember GOD is ONE.
His word/expression He threw it away to Mary, and a Soul/Spirit from Him [/QUOTE]
Believer, do you read what you post? If Jesus and God are one, how can Jesus make himself greater or lesser? How can Jesus make himself humble to God if he is God? Why would that even be necessary?
You ask: GOD is one so how can Jesus not do what GOD has given Him authority to do?
I ask, if God is One, why would God have to give Jesus authority to begin with?
It is not a question of whether or not man should have knowledge, it is a question of whether or not God can hide the knowledge of an event from Himself.
Muslims are not trying to make Jesus any type of partner to God, that is shirk, we make no partners with God, period. We are merely pointing out that Jesus, by his own words, was subservient to God, had no power other than what God gave him, deferred to God, and lacked knowledge that only God had.
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�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt |
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