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Alwardah View Drop Down
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Points: 980 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alwardah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 September 2008 at 5:32am

Hi Gulliver

According to all the scholars the word Najasun refers to all Non-Believers not only the pagans and idolotors.

I have not read the responses in full (just a quick read) so please forgive me if I say anything that will hurt you or anyone else.

You are absolutely correct �There is no Compulsion in Religion.�

Allah Subhanahu wa Ta�ala (God) can be worshiped anyway so there is no need for you to go to the Holy lands to worship Him. If HE wished for all mankind (NAS) to visit the Ka'bah HE would not reveal the Ayah that I quoted above.

Why do Muslims and non-Muslims find it so difficult to accept rules for which there is clear evidence from the Glorious Qur'an and/or Sunnah.

Why do we do to the Holy Lands? Is it not part of our worship? It is the same with fasting and Salah. Why do only Muslims fast not the rest of mankind? Yes I know the Jews and the Christians fast and pray but not in the manner the Muslims do.

There are reports that Christian delegates prayed in the Prophet�s Masjid in Al- Madinah. These event happened before Allah Subhanahu wa Ta�ala revealed this Ayah.

Brother Gulliver, you are sincerely seeking the truth and I pray that Allah Subhanahu wa Ta�ala will guide you to the beautiful of Islam. Yes I addressed you as brother because we are all the children of Adam and thus part of the human race.

I would also like all mankind to visit the Holy Lands and I would also like to pray Salah twice daily and above anything else I would love to dress the way I want. But this is what I want not what Allah (God) wants for me.

Islam is a beautiful religion it is our (we Muslims) ignorance and our desires and whims that entice us to find loopholes to satisfy them. No Muslim country or government in the world today represents Islam we only have the Glorious Qur'an and Sunnah.

Once again I apologize to anyone if my response has hurt them in any way.

May Allah Subhanahu wa Ta�ala forgive us for our shortcomings and guide us to become better Muslims who abide by the Glorious Qur'an and Sunnah Ameen!

Peace.



Edited by Alwardah - 18 September 2008 at 5:37am
�Verily your Lord is quick in punishment; yet He is indeed Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful (Surah Al-An�am 6:165)
"Indeed, we belong to Allah and to Him is our return" (Surah Baqarah 2: 155)
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Gulliver View Drop Down
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Points: 621 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gulliver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 September 2008 at 4:53am

This reminds me of a story I heard two years ago.

 
Ghandi is in London, England. He wants to go into a little church on a sidestreet somewhere, to see, 'how the christians worship'. The man at the door refuses him admission because of the way Ghandi is 'dressed' in his 'white robe' like a 'beggar'. Ghandi apparently claimed that is why he could never emrbace Christianity. Christ was not the problem - the christians were. I must see if I can find more detail on this one folks.
 
I understand that a person who is not Muslim, or not acquainted with all that is required ritualistically of Islamic faith - may indeed act in a way, knowingly or not, that is not proper in such a place, and really maybe should not be tolerated for 'good' reasons.
 
I understand and accept that perfectly, and I would rather never go near such a place than offend anyone of true faith that way.
 
Like Moses, being asked to take off his shoes, when he was in the 'holy place'.
 
Then there is the one who might genuinely want to know, to learn, to see, to understand and to believe perhaps. But he is refused admission. Not because he won't take off his shoes. Rather because other human beings choose to decide what may or may not be in the heart - the 'intent'.
 
He/she is not permittted to do so, because they are not 'dressed' a certain way. I realise it's all more complicated than that. Or is it.  
 
It's the heart God looks at.
 
I fully respect that this is a sacred place for Muslim people, and would not in any way wish to take from that. Dear God no. There are places in Christian world that are held as sacred too.
 
I was asked a simple question, and I went looking a simple answer. I can't go, not yet, if ever. It would not in the least put me off trying to understand Islamic faith.
 
I don't mean this in a disrespectful way at all. I am more interested in seeing how Muslims, 'live' the 'life of faith,' than in going to any 'sacred' place - inside or outside of Islam. 
 
So no more arguing over the 'politics' of it all, people :-)  I hope someone truly deserving of going, gets to go - a humble soul from a little village somewhere. To see that would be a 'sacred', holy and beautiful thing indeed, and I know, and feel very sure there are many such souls who visit Mecca every year, who worked and saved hard to get there, and show their love of God, by 'taking off' their 'shoes' in the 'holy place' - 'the heart', where they meet with God.
 
God bless :-)
 
 


Edited by Gulliver - 18 September 2008 at 4:59am
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"It is only 345 pages!"  Is that all ? lol
 
With all the other books I am gonna have to read.
 
I can understand that there are protocols to follow in Mecca, and a non believer would not understand them or be able to follow. Other religions have these too. Places become more 'sacred' than people - maybe why there is so much real 'profanity' in the world. 

 

I dunno. Maybe Minuteman told me what I wanted to hear yesterday, "forget islam." He did not mean that at all. He was making a comparison.

But maybe that is what I wanted to hear - forget all of it -  the 'religious' - the God made in man's image.  Cause hard as man tries - it seems to me he cannot rise beyond the concept of God in his own image.
 
Thank you SignReader. I will have a look at that some time. If I seemed to speak out of turn with anyone yesterday I ask your forgiveness.
 
It was one of those days, when I agreed with my friend Buddy. I hope I am not thrown out for giving this little pearl of wisdom. 
 
"(Whomever)........    the world's so full of c???.......     why bother wipin' your ??s !"
 
It left me wondering I have to admit. If one reason people do turn to religion - or are attracted by certain aspects of it - is because they have been so steeped in the 'profane' of the world, that anything which offers a sense, glimpse of the 'sacred' is a 'blessing from God' and to be grasped  and held onto at all costs.
 
God bless all.
 
 
 
 

 



 
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Originally posted by minuteman minuteman wrote:

Originally posted by Alwardah Alwardah wrote:

For once we cannot blame the Saudi government or their scholars.

O you who believe! Verily, the Mushrikin (polytheists, pagans, idolators etc) are impure. So let them not come near Al-Masjid Al-Haram after this year; and if you fear poverty, Allah will enrich you if He wills, out of His bounty. Surely, Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise. (Surah At-Taubah 9: 28)

This command of Allah�s has being in place since the 9th Hijrah not since the Saudi came into power.

The only solution is to accept Islam.

Peace

 
  This is a clear order that the Pagans should never enter the Haram Sharif. But would it apply to all non-Muslims en-masse? I hope not. To be on the better side, if there was any verse of the Quran which said that only Momineen can perform Hajj, that would settle the matter in favor of those who do not allow non-Muslims to goto Hajj.
 
 There is another problem about the word "Al Naas". What does it mean? Does it mean all mankind or those of the mankind who have accepted Islam. If it means those who have accepted Islam then the situation changes. If it means all mankind then the situation becomes reverse. Please concentrate on the word "Al Naas". Thanks.

This protocol was settled so long time ago debating here is not going to change the rule one iota! The visiting the Inviolable House has certain protocol and minding of the manners that a non believer would never to be able to conduct properly! It takes some learning before you head out there even being a believer cuz I know been there done that!

If you like to know the whole mess of 911 was triggered by the American troops males and females cruising around Mecca round about the first gulf war!
Which ayah you are referring to about "Al Naas" thing?


Edited by Sign*Reader - 17 September 2008 at 10:50pm
Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
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Originally posted by Gulliver Gulliver wrote:

Just as a matter of curiosity.  If I wanted to get a good, reliable, unbaised read on Muhammad, what are the recommendations ?
 
Thanks again.

I would recommend the following:
Muhammad(his life based on the earliest sources)
By Martin Lings
It is only 345 pages!


Edited by Sign*Reader - 17 September 2008 at 10:24pm
Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
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"You showed an easy way brother { AbuAyisha} Smile."
 
I smiled when I read this seekshidayath. Easy way, eh ? lol  If you only knew. Be like asking me to abandon my dearest friend in the moments of greatest possible need. Like me asking you to, 'deny' Muhammad in some very core funfamental way.  It's a lot of things - but 'easy' is not one of 'em :-)
 
I could lie about it of course. But that wouldn't enter into it at all.
 
God bless folks anyway, and again thank you :-)
 
K
 
 
Offer 'dua'(?) for my friend if you remember, please. He asked me to ask you all to pray for him. I say 'pray for' - same as offering dua, I think ? You know what I mean anyway.
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Just as a matter of curiosity.  If I wanted to get a good, reliable, unbaised read on Muhammad, what are the recommendations ?
 
Thanks again.
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I said about my Muslim friend to some of before, meeting him and how he influenced me. I told him about this place and how so many sent him the 'salam' greeting. He is having a difficult time in life at present, and it did his soul good to hear that today I believe. He sent this link for the Qu'ran in different languages, and asked me to post it here incase you did not have one. So I am posting it here. I am sure perhaps you have something like this already. But he asked as a favour and with good intent, and I am honouring that request. Someone might move to the most appropriate place as necessary.
 
God bless and thanks to all again.  Salam.
 
Thank you again Hafya, and if I seemed 'off' today with anyone - misreading and or misunderstanding, as I have done, I apologise. We Irish are too quick tempered ;-) You don't know what 'soul jihad' truly is till you've had to master an Irish temper.  LOL   ;-)

God bless us all.
 

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