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Shasta'sAunt
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Posted: 22 July 2008 at 4:27pm |
aspacia wrote:
Salams_wife wrote:
"Occupation? Iraq had free elections, and has Sharia Law. This irks many citizens, but this is Iraq, and the people must make their own laws."
I can't in all honesty agree with you there. Many tried to vote in those elections and were forced to leave before casting their vote because it went against what the local militia wanted. US troops were not stationed at all the poling stations and certainly not inside. You can't know what was going on for that election. |
Okay, now do you have valid support for this claim? I did not come across this information.
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- "US authorities say Iraqis will vote in the insurgent centres of Fallujah and Ramadi but officials will keep the number and location of polling stations secret until the last minute to prevent attacks."
- 20 Jan 05: Political Animal Kevin Drum at the Washington Monthly reports:
- "On ABC News tonight they had a report about preparations for voting in the city of Mosul. The original plan was to have 100 polling places, but because of the violence there that's been cut down to 40.
- "The population of Mosul is 2 million, and you can probably figure that about two-thirds of that number are eligible to vote. That means each polling place will have to handle 33,000 voters. Even if turnout is only 50%, that's still about 16,000 people per polling station.
- "Even 100 polling stations sounds like far, far too few. But 40?"
Robert Fisk, CounterPunch Election series
- "Fear Stalks Baghdad: The City Where Even Police Hide Behind Masks," The Independent (UK) via CounterPunch, January 12, 2005.
- "The Tent of Occupation: Fallujah's Refugees Won't Return Home, Won't Vote," The Independent (UK) via CounterPunch, January 14, 2005.
- "Flying Carpet Airlines: My Return to Baghdad," The Independent (UK) via CounterPunch, January 15/16, 2005.
- "Hotel Room Journalism: The US Press in Iraq," The Independent (UK) via CounterPunch, January 17, 2005.
- "The Shia Will Inherit Iraq: This Election Will Change the World, But Not in the Way the US Wanted," The Independent (UK) via CounterPunch, January 29/30, 2005.
- "No One Believes the Insurgency Will End: Amid Tragedy, Defiance," The Independent (UK) via CounterPunch, January 31, 2005.
Dahr Jamail, "Some Just Voted for Food", Inter Press Service, January 31, 2005. "Voting in Baghdad was linked with receipt of food rations, several voters said after the Sunday poll."
Robert Parry, "Sinking in Deeper", ConsortiumNews, February 3, 2005.
Edward Herman, "The Election In Iraq: The U.S. Propaganda System Is Still Working In High Gear,"] ZNet, February 13, 2005.
Douglas Jehl and David E. Sanger, "Plan Called for Covert Aid in Iraq Vote", New York Times, July 17, 2005.
Seymour M. Hersh, "Get Out the Vote. Did Washington try to manipulate Iraq�s election?" The New Yorker, posted online July 18, 2005; July 25, 2005 (issue).
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�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt
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aspacia
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Joined: 05 June 2005
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Posted: 22 July 2008 at 4:39pm |
Hayfa wrote:
The region was already destabilized and very violent. That is, lawless. |
Now, let me ask you this, do tell were you ever in Afghanistan? Before the war and everything? Just curious..[/quote]
Nope. However, I have had students who were refugees from this area, and read numerous accounts regarding the totalitarian rule.
Because you are wrong. They had laws. .and a sytem of governance, etc. Now you may not have liked it but they had some. |
Oh, another Taliban apologist. You condone how they behave, and follow their "laws." but we should change our laws to accommodate immigrants. To this Western mind, yes they did have laws, but were lawless and violent in many regards. Rape, honor murder, maimings, executions without trial or representation. There is a huge amount of documentation, and the following is a small portion: http://www.rawa.org/h-kill.htm http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/11/22/ret.wh.taliban.attrocities/index.html
And we never did go in there to help the Afghanis.. if so we would have done what Greg Mortenson has done and build schools, in stead of bombing it back further than the stone age (after the Russians). |
We sure did not. However, there was a huge outcry regarding the Taliban which many reporters covered. Too bad the women still do not have a fair shake.
It was and is a tribal culture. And they have rules.. you may not know them but they do. Having been in northern Pakistan, people have rules, they are quite capable of running themselves, have done so for thousands of years. And no, they don't really need your help. Though they'd like us to stop killing people. |
Sure, like aiding and abetting those who murder civilians, and this includes Muslims. Look at the massacres in Pakistan by these tribes. How about Bhutto?
And we did not go into Iraq and make it all seem fine.. but you watch and see who ultimately gets control of those oil fields.. where that revenues goes. We did not like it when those countries nationalized the oil and we won't let them do it now. |
We generally do not approved of any nationalization, although many on this site believe that we do. I hope the Iraqis benefit from the oil production, and that we will geopolitically benefit as well.
It is interesting that for alot of people in other areas, I've ben to PAkistan they want to know who is this "Al Queda." They think it is all in America's own head..a boogie man enemy to justify its tactics. |
Are these people literate. Can they freely associate and view various web sites. Pakistan is under Musharrif, and is basically under marshal law. He jailed the secular lawyers and civil servants.
And its weird you think that they are "on the run" as if it okay to attack a country that did not invade or attack you.. How is this different than colonization? |
Again, they were aided and abetted by the Taliban. We had every right to attack Afghanistan after Al Quaeda targeted and murdered nearly 3,000 civilians.
And have you lived in a wat zone? |
No, but my mother grew up during the WWII bombing of Plymouth. Many friends and family were blown to bits.
Do you think that it is easier to live in chaos? And originally when the Kurds rose up in the 90s after the Guld war we did not back them. We jusy invaded later at our own whim.. |
No, we did not back the Kurds. and it was not just a whim. Bush went to the UN, and to Congress. We had/have other partners in this Iraqi endeavor. Hussein was a bad guy, but now is gone.
would we like it if China did that to us??? |
China probably does plan to do this to us, except, they will probably go for total, unrestrained warfare, and poison, as well as bomb us.
Have you ever been to these regions.. just curious |
No, just read and watched Globe Trotter regarding various Middle-Eastern lands. Have known several people who worked their as contractors, instructors, and simply refugees.
Ugle American.. yes there was a certain view by Europeans. But the IDEAL of America was very prominant with people. It STOOD for something in the eyes of the average person around the world. It was a sign of hope and betterment. |
We do hope for freedom and democracy for those living under totalitarian rule, especially when the rulers threaten us, as Iran has rhetorically done on numerous occasions. Not really. I encountered much of this "Ugly American" b.s. when traveling to France during the 60's. Yuk! Parisians can be very arrogant and nasty.
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Curious
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aspacia
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Joined: 05 June 2005
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Posted: 22 July 2008 at 4:41pm |
Whisper wrote:
Extremely Educated!
As educated as all the rest of Neo-con war criminals? The all hold doctorates, somehow.
How difficult is it to get QUALIFICATIONS in the US:
* Received it jsut this morning along with all the other Great News about increasing all types of sizes, which seems to be the premier preoccupation of the Amreekan mind. Size specially of Fire Power!
Bachellor, MassterMBA, and Doctoorate certification available in YOUR field of choice.
Yes, you can become a Doc and get all the benefits alongside it! Our Diiploma/Certiificates are recognised worldwide. No need for exams, or testing, classrooms, tests, even interviewing. We turn no one down We guarantee confidentiality. CALL US 24 HOURS A DAY, 7 DAYS A WEEK For US: 1-781-634-7970 Outside US: +1-781-634-7970 "Just leave your NAME & PHONE NO. (with CountryCode)" in the voicemail our staff will get back to you in next few days
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Whisper, I attended two expensive universities on scholarships. I currently have a $20,000+ postgraduate bill.
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Curious
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aspacia
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Posted: 22 July 2008 at 5:21pm |
Whisper wrote:
Okay, now do you have valid support for this claim?
What the . . . . I am seriously tempted to use a word I never use. I will give you a valid support for the sheer fact THAT ANY ELECTIONS UNDER ARMY OCCUPATION are not elections.
Just see how Anne Patterson (your Ambassador in Pakistan) is screwing up Democracy in Pakistan right at this very moment.
Great (I wont use the most appropriate word here) Amreekans saving and caring for the world!!! Idiotic boring cultureless, power maniac control freaks produced by an even more boring square grid street system.
Get down from your ultra right wing horse and get straight with us. We know all these "provide me proof of this n deata for that" tricks of your DEBATE trade. The old Afghan is back after having total kidney failure and a mega Cardiac Arrest. And, in this very condition he will fry you. |
ROLF, and not a word of valid rebuttal. Typical.
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Curious
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JihadX
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Posted: 22 July 2008 at 5:35pm |
I hate America!! I wish i could pack up and move.. i wasn't exactly invited to this country anyway
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�The knife that slaughtered the guards at Bagram and set us free is now on its way to other places,�
_ The Mujahid, The Eminent, Sheikh Abu Yahya Al Libi
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aspacia
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Posted: 22 July 2008 at 5:59pm |
Shasta'sAunt wrote:
Aspacia:
"How about the fact that no Jews were allowed into Jerusalem until they took it in 1967."
Actually there have been Jews living in Jerusalem for centuries, quite peacefully on the whole until the U.N., the British, and the Zionist decided to take all of the land and expel the Palestinians. |
Peacefully, Arabs Jews had been under attack by their neighbors. Come on. Jews left in fear, not under Israeli edicts; Arabs fled under edicts and in fear.
In 1947 Jordan invaded and and occupied East Jerusalem, but even then Jews only fled the part that was occupied. From 1948 until 1967 Jerusalem was divided between Israel and Jordan. So your claims that Jews were forbidden in Jerusalem are historically incorrect. The Jews never really left Jerusalem, they just relocated to the unoccupied Israeli side. |
Hence, Arabs relocated to Arab lands.
"Sure did, against our old adversary Iran. Remember the hostage crisis, and the inept Carter?" |
Sure I remember the hostage crises. Remember Operation Ajax in which the CIA and SIS deposed the democratically elected Prime Minister Mosaddegh because he wanted to nationalise the oil fields and actually keep the oil money in Iran, and set up the Shah as a puppet ruler? A brutal dictatorship in which thousands of Iranians opposed to the Shah were murdered or disappeared, all with monetary aid and arms from the U.S. |
Yes! We did this, but should business interests have their investments confiscated without compensation? Yes, the Shah did this, but so have numerous other Arab dictators.
Then we are shocked and surprised when the Iranians dare to take Americans hostage and overthrow the leader we forced upon them. |
We were, Carter allowed this. Who is more brutal; the Shah or the Ayatollahs?
Sorry, Turkey is a member of the EC and has full candidate status to the EU. |
They key word is "candidate."
"They did have a few training camps, and Saddam was giving a chunk of change to suicide bombers' families."
If there were any truth in this or verifiable proof it would have been trotted out when Bush was doing his big war dog and pony show. This is just another lie. |
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/006/550kmbzd.asp http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/gunning/interviews/khodada.html http://www.nationalreview.com/mccarthy/mccarthy200406170840.asp There is much more. It was trotted out, but as usual, our alphabet media ignored much of this or just mentioned it once or twice, similar to the recent yellowcake removal
"I read a huge amount of Arab media, especially while on vacation"
Hal tal takallum Arabi? Keef haalik? Kulshi Bekhir? |
This does not translate. I went to three translation sites. What give. Also, I am monolingual, as are most Muslims who cannot read Arabic.
Fin katskun? Shehal mad wenta hna? Ash kat'amli? Wash fhemti?
"Hum, can a Buddhist worship is much of the Middle-East. Are Copts dhiminis? How about women's rights? Can I drive in Saudi Arabia? I am one of the kaffir or infidels or dhiminis in the Middle-East, are you in the U.S. Nope, you are equally protected, not the same can be said of other minorities in the Middle East. You may be poorer than others, well guess what, so am I." |
In Islam anyone can worship however they choose and women have greater rights than those established in most western cultures. |
Nope, read Sharia Law for insight. The Qu'ran helps too. Two women = one man's testimony, etc.
What the governments in the Middle East, most of whom are kept in power in part or whole by our democracy speading, tyrant hating government, do has nothing to do with my religion. |
Ah, but this is a political thread. Want to discuss religion? Do the recent Surahs supercede the previous one? No Islamic scholar will answer this very simple question. Yes or no will suffice.
Actually, as a Muslim in the U.S. I am a target of profiling, secret arrests, extraordinary rendition, detention without the right of habeus corpus or due process, and subject to torture. This is hardly equal protection under the law. |
Profiling is conducted regarding behavior, not appearance, similar to Israeli profiling. I do hope you have behaved in a seditious fashion.
I am not a minority. I am a Euro-caucasian with a Native American, (a TRUE American) grandfather. |
Hence, you probably have nothing to worry about. Just do not threaten, and do not fratrinize with those who threaten. BTW: Most Native Americans immigrated from Mongolia. ROLF, my significant other is an eighth Iroquois.
My father, uncles, and brother all served in the Army. My father for 35 years. |
Yes, so did my brother, uncles, mother and father. Father was on the tin can Roan when it was sunk off the coast of Salerno. None were lifers, but served their time. [quote]I grew up on army bases all over the world and studied at some of the finest military schools. The only thing that makes me a minority in this country is the hatred of Americans for my self-chosen religion. A hatred fueled by ignorance and misinformation. Much like that which you have been posting. |
Okay, so prove me incorrect with valid support. BTW: Freedom of worship is guranteed under our Constitution. This is not a guaranteed under Sharia Law, and generally in most of the Middle-East. Thank your lucky stars we do not stone people for changing faiths.
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Curious
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aspacia
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Posted: 22 July 2008 at 6:02pm |
Whisper wrote:
Also, isn't it a sin to call a person a fool in Islam?
Is it a sin any religion to call a spade a spade - to tell the truth? |
Yes, in Christianity. Read Matthew.
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Curious
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aspacia
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Posted: 22 July 2008 at 6:04pm |
JihadX wrote:
I hate America!! I wish i could pack up and move.. i wasn't exactly invited to this country anyway |
You can pack and move. Just save your coins and leave, as we do not want those who hate us.
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Curious
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