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nospam001
Senior Member Male Joined: 02 October 2012 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 149 |
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Posted: 12 February 2013 at 6:46pm |
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It wasn't discussed, but I gather they had already stopped believing before my parents were born.
(Do you stay away from weddings if they happen to be in a church? I assume not. Neither would an agnostic.)
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God has the right to remain silent. For His advocates, however, each resigned shrug is a missed opportunity to win new converts.
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Caringheart
Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Status: Offline Points: 2991 |
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Greetings Nausheen, I think only God can plunge the depths of a persons heart. The correct conclusion is, that it is beyond me to understand when people commit evil, whether God is temporarily displaced from that persons heart, or whether He was never there to begin with. Only God can know who can be redeemed, and only God can decide when they are forever lost. I do know that when one commits an evil act they are not acting for God... God is absent at that time. This does not necessarily mean they can not find Him later. Does that make sense? Salaam, Caringheart |
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Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
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Caringheart
Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Status: Offline Points: 2991 |
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Greetings Nausheen,
If I may jump in again... "Are you saying this person does not have God/Jesus in his heart? That the belief is altogether absent from the heart? "I would say, not so much that belief is absent, but that the conscience is dulled.. it is when a person is blinded and misled, by the lies of the world... by the ruler of this world, and this can be done in so many ways. "I think belief is necessary for practicing, and is incomplete without practicing but its not absent from the heart altogether just because it is not reflected in actions. "I think this was what TG was referring to when he spoke of weak belief... when one is struggling against his sin nature, they can be said to be in denial... I would say this is comparable to inner Jihad... one has belief but must fight against their sinful nature. Paul puts it this way; 21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God�s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do, I do not do, but[I do] what I hate I do. "Is there any difference between a godless person, and one who does not obey God, though believes there is a Maker who sent messages of guidance to mankind? "Yes. It is called being in denial... knowing that there is a God but denying the necessity of obeying Him. Lying to oneself, trusting in the mind of man, believing that belief in God is enough, that God will forgive whatever we do, or that it really doesn't matter... we can find so many reasons not to obey God... essentially believing the lies of this world, falling into the temptations of this world and finding excuses for it, or just plain old having a heart so dulled that it refuses to recognize the sin... just like Pharaoh with his heart too hard to see the truth that was before him. It is only in coming out of this denial, recognizing the love of God and what we owe to Him, when we turn ourselves over to God in obedience, that we experience the fullness of His grace and freedom from the sinful nature, and what it truly means to belong to God. I think the Christian faith always seeks to lead with love to draw a person towards God, towards the recognition of their need for God, and out of their denial. It is through love that hearts for God are won. Sometimes, yes, this does mean tough love. Sometimes it is pain that is needed to drive one towards God. Pain can either drive one towards God, or away from God, but in the end it is God that we need to be free of our pain... but we must come to choose Him for ourselves. I think Christians try to be there with love when the pain drives a person to finally seek God, if that is the path a person's life has taken them to find God. my two cents... Edited by Caringheart - 12 February 2013 at 1:03pm |
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Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
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Nausheen
Moderator Group Female Joined: 10 January 2001 Status: Offline Points: 4251 |
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Greetings Caringheart, Thank you for your input. Are you saying that for instance, a robber, a murderer, a rapist etc who believes there is God/Jesus - In reality he does believe though his actions are not in accordance to what he beleives. Will that be a correct conclusion of your statement? thank you. |
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<font color=purple>Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.[/COLOR] |
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Nausheen
Moderator Group Female Joined: 10 January 2001 Status: Offline Points: 4251 |
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Walaikum Assalam, the pleasure is mine.
Do you mean this person is not following what he believes in, or simply he does not believe what he professes to believe? To me there is a fine line between the two, thus all the fuss [IMG]smileys/smiley1.gif" align="middle" />
Essentially I understand what an ideal christian would be like. Was thinking though, if a person believes there is one God, who sent prophets and scriptures, and beleives there is heaven and hell - but he does not obey that one God, nor does he follow the scriptures ... what does christianity say about his belief? [Lets keep his actions aside for a while and focus on what is in the heart.] Are you saying this person does not have God/Jesus in his heart? That the belief is altogether absent from the heart? Im asking because I think belief is not equal to practice / following. I think belief is necessary for practicing, and is incomplete without practicing but its not absent from the heart altogether just because it is not reflected in actions. Is there any difference between a godless person, and one who does not obey God, though believes there is a Maker who sent messages of guidance to mankind? Does the christian faith see any fine line between the two kinds? Thank you for your response. It does help. Edited by Nausheen - 11 February 2013 at 10:49pm |
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<font color=purple>Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.[/COLOR] |
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Nausheen
Moderator Group Female Joined: 10 January 2001 Status: Offline Points: 4251 |
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The original comment was worrisome, and still is. By analogy to how we have a mixture within Muslims I presumed there would be several weak christians who would still be regarded as christians in the broad sense.
Here is a good laugh for you. I miss-spelled agnostic - It was past midnight at my end when I was typing that post :)
Cool Would you explain a little further. Does this mean your grandparents were still christians, although you do not call yourself one? What beliefs do you follow in particular? Thank you. |
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<font color=purple>Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.[/COLOR] |
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Caringheart
Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Status: Offline Points: 2991 |
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Greetings Nausheen,
I hope you don't mind me jumping in. I just had a couple of thoughts. "Do all christians believe the same?"I think I can safely say that no, all Christians do not believe the same. Just like Sunni's, Shia's, Sufi's, and Wahabbi's don't believe the same but I am sure that there are 'believers'(and God will be the judge) in each of those groups. I think what we first have to understand is that 'Christian' is just a label put on people, and Christianity is a name given to a religion, and neither one can, or should, be used to define who an individual is and what is in their heart. The heart will reflect the true self and God always knows the true self, and God alone can judge. Salaam, Caringheart Edited by Caringheart - 06 February 2013 at 5:36pm |
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Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
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nospam001
Senior Member Male Joined: 02 October 2012 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 149 |
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God has the right to remain silent. For His advocates, however, each resigned shrug is a missed opportunity to win new converts.
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