I just dont understand

Whisper wrote: Human, a great post. I agree with every word and your fair logic. But, the sad reality is that the educated and enlightened Muslim has been rendered redundant by the reality of occupations of Muslim lands, mass killings, prisoner abuse and, finally, by the desecrations of the Quran. Shall I place just an example from one of my neighbour countries? The Islamists had never held more than TWO seats in the National Assembly of Pakistan. Afghanistan made them hold two whole provinces, Baluchistan and the NWFP. Iraq and the US continued support for their general in Islamabad (with total disregard for the man in the street - as usual) I would be surprised if the country won't have something even worse than Talibaan in power within this decade. Brother, ideal solutions and sheer logic does get lost in ground realities.

Thanks for your compliment. Within all the strife and acrimony, we do find some common ground.

In all fairness, it is despicable for the western powers to exploit the weaknesses of the muslim (and other) countries. Lot of people, including many Americans, realize that. But, the major portion of the blame, must go to muslims. If the americans are able to exploit Saudis, Egyptians, Turks, Nigerians and Jordanians, it is because they are simply exploiting the weaknesses inherent in those societies. This is an age old, time honored trick perfected by imperialists for several millennia.

India is a good example. Throughout her history, the greeks, mongols, turks, mughals and europeans have exploited the deep divisions in the society. It is true that two wrongs do not make it right, but India found a unique solution. Welcome the agressor and make him love the land and the people. In due course of time, he becomes one of us.

But I digress. I think the solution lies in education, introspection and development. Eye for an eye sounds great, but in practice it has never worked. Should America and the west be more humane and just. Of course. If history has taught us anything, it is that justice, fairness and tolerance are good for small communities and within a country. When it comes to global politics, they have no place on the table. Sad, but that's the reality.

Human

Just forgot to add that the actual effect of the supposed Rasputinic Mullah's sermon is sexed up in the Interest of the State.

Our present day situation is caused by sheer disregard for the man in the street. I agree, Imperialism does have its costs. 

Whenever there are terrorist attacks, and if the terrorists happen to be muslims, the first reaction of the muslim community (a typical response, obviously no one speaks for all muslims), is that of denial. At first they say, it is a western conspiracy. Once there is proof that it was indeed islamic terrorists who did it, then they start saying the terrorists are not "real" muslims because Quran doesn't allow it.

Morality is established by cultures and society. The laws of the land and religious scriptures only go so far and no further. That's why we have crimes, even in Singapore where laws are very strict and Saudi Arabia where apparently strict islamic rule is in place. On the other hand, in some of the scandinavian countries, which are not terribly religious, nor do they have draconian laws, the crime rate is very low.

My take from all this is that the cultural values and society play a major role in how people see themselves. In societies where there is a strong disapproval of corruption of any kind, people tend to be less corrupt. I have seen the other extreme in India, where corruption is a way of life. It is practiced at all levels of life and it is okay to be corrupt. Just as I am not blaming all muslims for terrorism, I am not saying all Indians are corrupt.

Therefore it behooves on muslims to do serious introspection about their belief system and their books. As muslim apologists keep saying that it was okay for the prophet to marry a nine year old girl at that time, but it is not okay today, there are many other things that require revision. It should not be okay for a cleric to teach gullible youth that in order to reach heaven, he needs to kill so many people. It should not be okay for a cleric to preach that their primary responsibility is towards their religion and the mythical umma, not to the country of their residence. Most importantly, it should not be okay for a cleric to teach young children that all the wisdom is concentrated in Quran and all other knowledge is superfluous and useless. This can only happen if the educated and enlightened muslims call a spade a spade.

Human

Whisper, are you sure about that? There seems to be some evidence that some mosques in UK are indulging in hate mongering. This denial is what is causing the entire muslim community to be tarred with a single brush. That's why I keep calling for introspection.

Must apologise for not being able to respond to you any earlier, I was away at a place with most feeble phone lines.

Yes, there are some clerics in the UK who possibly like to play it up for the media attention they seek. It will be a tall order to find even 10 of these in a place with over 216 mosques.

Their importance and numbers are being sexed up like our now very famous Downing Street dossier on the WMDs. Do I need to spell out for what purpose?

Nothing like introspection. But just one side doing it solves nothing. We must try and Make Killing History instaed of decorating our killers - on both sides of the fence.