Khamr and Sakar is alcahol the same?

As-salaam alaykum

 

I ordinarily would not respond to questions like this because it seems you've got your mind made up irrespective of the explanations& clerifications you've been given&am so glad my dear sister&brothers are doing a fine job here.Am not giving you any facts as they've already done that.I'd just like to ask what your 'aim' of this topic really is(take it as a rhetorical question).Are you in a'knowledge battle' or are you trying to say Rasulllah(s.a.w) did not deliver the message Allah sent him?Or that the Revelation was tampered with?Or that we're blind followers& do not even know what we're doing?

 

if you "Still don't drink wine',then why bring up this controversy?Are you aware what damage  it could cause to people who're just coming up& have little understanding of Islam?

If you understand &believe in the Prophet(s.a.w),you'd desist from 'controversy as he said,"what is lawful is clear and what is unlawful is clear.Alcohol is 'unlawful'.The fact that some people would claim this otherwise to suit their argument for whatever purpose does not make it'lawful'.May Allah open your heart to accept the truth!

Wa Alaikum Assalaam,

My apologies to everyone for not responding to this as I am usually busy with polemical evangelists on other sites.  Just saw your post today. I have formed a precis of your post in my mind and I would answer off that memory.   Let us understand the simple message of the verses by understanding in simple beautiful language of Qur'aan, what is being told:

In V2:219, we are being told that people asked the Prophet about Drinking and Gambling. It is understood that the people were not asking about drinking water, milk and other fruit juices. Thus the drinking here refers to consumption of intoxicating drinks such as wine, toddy, etc. They are told that there is more to lose than gain, for people. It is left to us to imagine what do we gain and what do we stand to lose more. Simply put, the result is more evil. there is nothing wonderful about the letter " wau" there and it is just a conjunction.  All it says is that drinking along with gambling is a serious hazard and a double killer.

In V4:43, we are told not to go for prayers when DRUNK (Wa antum sukaraa, which means when you are drunk) and to go when we are back in senses. And not to pray when we have had sex until we perform a ghusl.

Bro Minuteman is right in saying that this verse has not been abrogated. I agree with him. What about some Muslims who drink but still pray? They will be "finished", if this verse was treated as abrogated and would have been condemned forever by not having a chance to pray. Please note that this is my own conclusion.

You quoted V5:90 but you forgot to add 5:91 which has the real answer. After Allah tells us in 5:90 that intoxicating drinks, gambling and naming/consecrating idols and drawing lots were abominations, Allah tells us in V5:91 that all these are evil and keep us away from remembrance of Allah and prayers to Allah.

Then comes the big question: "Fa-hal antum muntahoon?", which means Allah is asking us,"Would you not abstain from them?" or "Would you then not desist or stay away from them?"

What will be our answer? Of course it will be, "Yes, Lord Almighty! I will refrain or keep myself away from these evils You have mentioned."

"Fa-hal antum muntahoon?" is the verse which was accepted by all the Muslims who were there with our dear Prophet and that was the day, all stopped drinking liquors, wines, intoxicants, etc. There is no direct order of prohibition. This is how intoxicants became forbidden.

For the life in the Hereafter, the word used is Sharaab, which does not mean intoxicating liquors. In the Indo-Pak Sub-Continent and Iran/Afghanistan, the word Sharaab is alcoholic drink in Persian, Hindi, Bangla and Urdu.

There is a huge difference between the words Sakar (sweet) and sukaraa (drunk).

Hope this helped. Salaams

BMZ

Edited by BMZ

Good responses by seekshidayat and minuteman.  BrotherMo, I suggest you not try to rationalize this sinful behavior by trying to reinterpret the ayats which have been unanimously agreed upon as completely forbidding all intoxicants, whether it is wine, beer, cocaine, marijuana, morphine, opium etc.  Can you demonstrate that the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) or the Sahabah drank wine?  If not, how do you reconcile your recreational use of wine, when Allah's final Messenger did not do that?  Ponder very carefully on this subject.

As'Salamu Alaikum,

Before starting up to the topic, lets pray Allah swt, to open our hearts to seek with the true knowledge and keep us away from the whisperings of satan

Dear brother if you are thru the Quran alone. then its not possible for you to grasp the subject of the verse.  One needs to know many details about the time and occasion on which a particular verse was revealed. For this people refer to tafsir - and one cannot understand tafsir if one is going to reject all hadith, as these documents are based a great deal on the authentic hadith. Tafsir is nothing but commentary.

Now coming up to the order of the verses revealed, lets have a look.There are three verses in the Quran connected to intoxicants.

It is narrated in Musnad Ahmad  that Abu maysarah said that Umar (ra) once said "O Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala give us a clear ruling regarding al-khamr!" Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala sent ayaat of Surah Baqarah, '2:219] They ask you about intoxicants and games of chance. Say: In both of them there is a great sin and means of profit for men, and their sin is greater than their profit. And they ask you as to what they should spend. Say: What you can spare. Thus does Allah make clear to you the communications, that you may ponder'. Umar was then summoned and the ayah was recite to him.

Yet, he still said "O Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala give us a clear ruling regarding al-khamr!" Then second time this verse  in surah Nisa was revealed, [4:43]'O you who believe! do not go near prayer when you are Intoxicated until you know (well) what you say, nor when you are under an obligation to perform a bath-- unless (you are) travelling on the road-- until you have washed yourselves; and if you are sick, or on a journey, or one of you come from the privy or you have touched the women, and you cannot find water, betake yourselves to pure earth, then wipe your faces and your hands; surely Allah is Pardoning, Forgiving'.

Then, when the prayer was called for, a person used to herald on behalf of Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala's Messenger PBUH, "No drunk person should attend the prayer" Umar was summoned again and the ayah was recited to him, Yet, he still said "O Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala give us a clear ruling regarding al-khamr!" Then the Ayah that is in Surah Ma'idah was revealed, '5:91] The Shaitan only desires to cause enmity and hatred to spring in your midst by means of intoxicants and games of chance, and to keep you off from the remembrance of Allah and from prayer. Will you then Resist?
On hearing this he said, "we did obstain, we did obstain" The ayaah in Surah Ma'idah is the one which forbids all forms of gambling and intoxicants. 

 In the first verse cited above, the word for "intoxicated" is sukara which is derived from the word "sugar" and means drunk or intoxicated. That verse doesn't mention the drink which makes one so. In the next verses cited, the word which is often translated as "wine" or "intoxicants" is al-khamr, which is related to the verb "to ferment." This word could be used to describe other intoxicants such as beer, although wine is the most common understanding of the word. Muslims interpret these verses in total to forbid any intoxicating substance -- whether it be wine, beer, gin, whiskey, or whatever. The result is the same, and the Qur'an outlines that it is the intoxication, which makes one forgetful of God and prayer, which is harmful. Over the years, the list of intoxicating substances has come to include more modern street drugs and the like.

I hope this may now stop u take any type of intoxicants be it before or after salah brother.