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Why do muslim countries not have strong economy? |
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PattyaMainer ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Female Joined: 03 August 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 352 |
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I like you too, Sasha, but don't try to tell me what I may say or when I may say it. Your bashing of anything and everything American interfers with good sense, and makes for only more hatred. Something I would love to see disappear. Angela brought the subject of these girls to light. Why do you not correct her for revealing it in the first place? I don't take orders from you, Sasha. If the moderators tell me I cannot express my opinion then I will comply. You are allowed great leniency on this board because of who you are, I would never (for example) get away with calling the public interest in Afghanistan "idiotic"......But then I would not insult any country as a whole by doing so in the first place.
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"FOR THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE, NO EXPLANATION IS POSSIBLE. FOR THOSE WHO BELIEVE, NO EXPLANATION IS NECESSARY."
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Duende ![]() Senior Member ![]() Joined: 27 July 2005 Status: Offline Points: 651 |
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Whisper, I am as seduced as the next woman by the declaration of woman as a Deputy Assistant Creator. I agree that women in Western society have largely been downgraded from their once respected role as such, to a role as mere 'productive' members of society, where production=wealth creation. I love the idea that women reach self-realisation, satisfaction if you will, by giving birth. But I know that this is simply not true for every woman.
Is it right to sanctify life? Obviously and emphatically yes. But is it right to equate a woman with God? Is it right to sanctify women as deputy creators, as something close to the divine? I think not, this creates some impossible conundrums. God is beyond us, by elevating a woman�s fertility to Godliness, is to place a burden upon her shoulders which no man could bear, let alone a woman. Perhaps this is one reason why we have known no great female prophets. Why did God entrust his message only to men? We know women are not less intellectually capable than men and the old excuse that women �have not been allowed to� be like men works only up to a point. History is dotted with great female writers, artists, musicians, scientists etc. But they are tucked away in the pages of �exceptions to the rule�. Their society and circumstances did not allow for their complete recognition and they remain exceptions, and modern women are still trying to have them removed from the exceptions category and simply taken for granted, as we do the few great men. The feminist push for women's education and eventual consideration as man's equal is confronted by this basic undeniable fact: women bear children and men do not. But what sort of consideration, under your Deputy Creator title do childless women have? The choice not to have children is often conscious and deliberate, not simply due to personal circumstances, or biological 'defects'. In the old days, a childless woman was called 'barren'. To be barren. Imagine the term; a waste land where nothing at all will grow. Imagine being described, your whole self, summing you up as a useless patch of wasteland. Lorca wrote a very powerfull theatre work about a barren woman in deepest Andalucia, called �Yerma�, it was inspired and set in a small community here in Almeria. On the other hand, an infertile man receives no similar label, yet I am sure his pain is no less accute. If western society is to achieve anything more than a semblance of equality and balance between the sexes, then it must ACCEPT women- the feminine- in ALL her aspects. In a debate on Spanish TV after the appointment of a heavily pregnant woman to the post of Defence Secretary, a female journalist said in an intensely passionate and improvised speech: if you want to involve women in every aspect of society, in government, institutions, in the work place etc., you MUST accept her in all her manifestations: single, married, pregnant, mother and not a mother. This is the basic paradox Western society has yet to embrace (there's not much else you can do with paradoxes ....) it is common knowledge that prospective employers (despite laws requiring complete equality) will rather look for a woman they can be sure will not one day announce her pregnancy and require subsequent paid maternity leave. A sign of the failure of the feminist movement is the fact that often these discriminating employers, are themselves, women Angela, your dream of taking computers to the women of Afghanistan is wonderful, but it seems similar to taking digital watches to the Guarani tribesmen of the Amazon. Our Western desire to help people we perceive to be backward and lacking is often terribly mistaken in its assumptions, and woefully misguided in its intentions. As Whisper points out, often the women we wish to help by providing them with a key to independence, resent us for actually taking them out from under the protective role of their husbands. You seem to want to separate the cultural traditions from 'education', you say: "Tribal Culture and Economics need to be separated. Tribal Culture and the access to Education need to be separated. One has to look at their "culture" and see what is important and what has become a tool to oppress" but I think it is far better to try to incorporate, to include and adapt education within the millenia old traditions of tribal culture, rather than create an 'either or' education. Cultures do not change. Here in Spain there are many many aspects of the culture, at the 'street' level if you like, which are almost exactly as they were during the days of the Moorish rule. That this is so, is hotly denied by such statesmen as our previous president, Aznar, and people totally immersed in the centuries of Arab denialism Spanish society is just starting to come to terms with, and which was instigated by and largely kept alive here, by the Catholic church. But the mere fact that Spaniards go on holiday by the thousands to Muslim lands and find a weird sense of feeling at home, is testament to the persistence of cultural habits, customs, perspectives etc., despite the ravages of time, the efforts of reformers, or the edicts of laws. .(... I just want to come back and by way of edit, add that I don't condone nore wish to see perpetuated throughout time the barbaric 'customs' perpetrated against women in some tribal cultures! It's just that I do not think one can change many aspects of a culture from the outside ... time has shown that with good governance, and yes, education, societies can rectify their ways: we gave up witch burning quite a few years ago!) Edited by Duende - 14 November 2008 at 5:47am |
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Whisper ![]() Senior Member ![]() Male Joined: 25 July 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4752 |
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I have a personal question my dearest Sasha.
Angela, your whole question is travelling to Madrid with me, just in an hour and I will be here long before I leave for the UK.
We can't taste the whole of society just with a few freak incidents, specially, when most of these freak incidents are inspired and conducted by various intell services!
I am not going to credit just the CIA, but the ISI, the RAW and even, will you believe it, MOSSAD are in the game. Edited by Whisper - 13 November 2008 at 8:57pm |
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Whisper ![]() Senior Member ![]() Male Joined: 25 July 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4752 |
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These men are the very epitome of evil. I pray the girls will recover and be well, but they will obviously be scarred. Very sad and troubling.
I like you Patty, BUT please you will have the right of talking about any men, good or evil, ONLY when your evil men have left our lands. Period
Their presence in our lands has been a tool of provocation. Not that I expect you to understand it, but I am declaring it in genaral idiotic American public interest. Edited by Whisper - 13 November 2008 at 8:46pm |
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PattyaMainer ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Female Joined: 03 August 2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 352 |
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These men are the very epitome of evil. I pray the girls will recover and be well, but they will obviously be scarred. Very sad and troubling.
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"FOR THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE, NO EXPLANATION IS POSSIBLE. FOR THOSE WHO BELIEVE, NO EXPLANATION IS NECESSARY."
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abuayisha ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Muslim Joined: 05 October 1999 Location: Los Angeles Status: Offline Points: 5105 |
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Angela ![]() Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 July 2005 Status: Offline Points: 2555 |
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I have a personal question my dearest Sasha. What worth would I be in your society? I am not a deputy creator. I would have no value, no place and no options. This "Deputy Creator" thing would leave me less than a dog. And I mean that with all the pain and sadness in my heart. Its all fine and good for woman to be measured in worth by her motherhood. But what about the rest of us. I saw this in the news today. I just thought I would add it to the numerous articles.
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Whisper ![]() Senior Member ![]() Male Joined: 25 July 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4752 |
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I should define what I call prosperity. Angela, I would have been the greatest admirer of this system just if I had not known it so well! One can be rich without being wealthy.
In 30 years my lands have died. They are poisoned by what Exxon has been selling me. (And, please, don�t tell anyone, I had got my manager appointed as their Regional Agent) After all this prosperity, we are producing nada sugar cane. There is no natural model of continued growth.
It would be nice to live with my family for 10 years and have the money to buy a house outright. However, I feel that I would have killed my father in law in that amount of time... Angela, all I believe is that a system that doesn�t assign woman with her basic natural �worth� of a Deputy Creator is a scam, a plain simple fraud and absolutely haram. I want to stay home when I have my first child and while they are too young to go to school. That is a desire of almost every woman. However, the idea that opening opportunity is a bad thing... that is beyond me. Absolutely. Thank goodness, I will die a happy man (well I nearly did on 12th June) in my community every woman holds and enjoys her status as a Deputy Creator. And, this Deputy Creator decree is my invention, because for ever I took God to be a bit better, more powerful and loving than my mother! For me, she was His Deputy. I may be wrong but for me that�s what she was! Edited by Whisper - 12 November 2008 at 9:50pm |
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