Where is the Injeel?

bmzsp wrote: "The Word Became Flesh:'In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning.' " Is this an statement from Jesus? Obviously it is not. I can write pages of commentary on this. This philosophy or the thought from John, which was NOT presented or taught or preached by Jesus himself, cannot be  considered as Injeel." It appears to me that you are in agreement with me on above. Thanks.

I'll keep silent on this part...as a Mormon, we feel this is a very misunderstood passage.

 

bmzsp wrote: Annie, I have noticed that most of the time you reply as if I am your teacher and you are answering like a child. Answers, like "He did", "He did not", "say what?", "I am not following you", etc., etc., are considered cop out in my opinion. You should read my thoughts, which are purely my own as I draft them myself, not just quote from polemic sites. You should be able to analyse them carefully and present serious replies. My simple point was: "Thou shall not worship any other God beside God.", "Thou shall worship only your Lord God with all thy hearts, all thy minds and all thy souls" and "Your Lord God is only one." The above will be treated as Injeel which means what Jesus taught and preached. As a Muslim, I agree with that. The message is crystal clear. "The Word Became Flesh:'In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning.' " Is this an statement from Jesus? Obviously it is not. I can write pages of commentary on this. This philosophy or the thought from John, which was NOT presented or taught or preached by Jesus himself, cannot be  considered as Injeel. Thus, if you follow and pick the true statements uttered by Jesus, you can collect the Injeel easily. The "Lost Injeel" has  actually drowned in the seas of the gospels. You talk more of narrations, stories and reports of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John but less of what really came from Jesus' own mouth.  I rest my case!

I understand you perfectly most of the time, BMZ, but some of your own thoughts and comments are not clear.  I good teacher would make himself clear.

It is not hard at all to find the words of Jesus in the Gospels.  Just buy yourself a Bible that puts his words in red.

If you want to compare the Bible with the Qur'an then you must include all the Hadiths with the Qur'an as the Bible does include the words of men.

You must admit that Muslims put much emphasis on the sayings of Muhammad  and the sayings of his companions.  This is where you find out what his associates thought of him and what he personally said and what was going on at the time of the sayings, what Muhammad did, what he thought of some people, how he treated people.

So, when you read the Gospels of Jesus you find his teachings, the reactions of the people around him and their thoughts.  This is all very important.

For instance, Jesus claimed divinity.  It is very important that we know what the Jews thought about that, their reactions to his sayings.  It is also important that we know what questions were asked of Jesus and under what circumstances they were asked.

Understand?

You will find Jesus' Gospel, his teachings, his commands in the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.  It is not hard to find them.

Annie

Angela wrote: I have seen a HUGE number of circular and unending arguments about the validity of the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.  Now, from what I understand, the Muslims believe that Jesus Christ (pbuh) revealed a book called the Injeel.  Correct?  Now, given that Moses (pbuh) supposedly wrote the Torah (which included the 1st 5 books of the Old Testament) and that Muhammed (pbuh) wrote down the Quran as it was revealled, why did Christ not write down the Injeel????

Hi Angela.

1) No one actually knows what the injeel was. Moses recieved the Torah, a book that contained laws and instructions, and was required to be written down. There was also an oral component to the Torah, which is contained in the Talmud.

2) Given that no one actually knows the nature of the injeel, it would be mere speculation to try and understand why Jesus did not wrie it.

Was it meant to be written? Did the nature of the revelation require it to be in book format? Was it a message meant only for the Jews?

Angela wrote: Where is this collection of revelations?

As far as the NT goes, it is unknown. many were destroyed, and none of them were actual direct copies.

The Torah is the handiwork of several writers, piecing it together from traditions and oral sources. There are at least two different traditions of the Torah that we know today. It is not in the same form that it was in the beginning. So the Torah exists as a series of books from one of the two traditions.

angela wrote:    Why did God not preserve the words of Moses and Jesus (pbut) like he did the revelations given to Muhammed (pbuh)?

They are preserved, as Gd does not forget.

1) The earthly recording is partially in the care of man.

2) The messages have periods of relevance. The specifics on ritual sacrifice in front of the ark is no longer a relevant bit of info.

Why was Noah's revelation not preserved in the time of Moses?

Angela wrote: Why is it that God/Allah did not guard all his truths and allowed the confusion to take place to begin with????

What confusion? I am not confused? Man brings confusion down upon himself.

angela wrote: Why is it that an All Powerful and All Merciful being would not preserve the message of one of his most unique Prophets and creations?

The same reason the revelation given to Noah was not preserved at the time of Noah. It was no longer relevant.

angela wrote: I'm really struggling with this one.  If there is an Injeel.  Bring it forth.....if you can't, tell me why God would allow the message destroyed when he had it in his power to preserve it, knowing that it would lead billions into Shirk?

There was an injeel given to Jesus. We do not know enough about it to make any conclusions. One important question is: Was the injeel relevant to gentiles? Did it only make sense to those who followed the Torah? Just as Noahs revelation was not preserved in the time of Moses. It was not relevant. Gd only gives His people what is relevant.

Peace

David,

Excellent and a thoughtful reply. Thanks for relieving me from the fear that my written English was poor and incomprehensible to some. You got me right.

"I get BMZ's point about the injeel being a subset of the gospels.

I think a starting point might be the Sermon on the Mount, which begins in Matthew 5."

Sermon on the Mount is my favourite.  Plenty of Injeel is there.

"The Quran:
5:46 And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah.

Matthew 5:17
Do not think that I have come to do away with or aundo the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to do away with or undo but to complete and fulfill them.
Matt. 5:18 For truly I tell you, until the sky and earth pass away and perish, not one smallest letter nor one little hook [identifying certain Hebrew letters] will pass from the Law until all things [it foreshadows] are accomplished.

This seems to be a point, and a significant one, where the Islamic criterion is useful
Quran 3:3
It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong).

The Quran itself states the Gospel is inaccurate in some way, and to use the criterion (Quran) to discern what is valid.  Based on the Sermon on the mount and Quran 5:46 this part of the gospel seems to be a likely candidate for acceptance by Islam. 

Why not start here, and save John 6:40 for another day? "

Rightly said.

Thanks, David for the understanding.

Best Regards

BMZ

Edited by bmzsp