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Will anyone defend Islam?
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Joined: 23 November 2010
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Points: 311 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Experiential Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 June 2013 at 4:14am
Originally posted by NABA NABA wrote:

brother U R quoting the verses out of context,U quoted the verse 12 of ch 8 incompletely.in that verse says-remember Allah inspired to angels-"I am with U and strengthen those who believe"then comes the lines U quoted,in the next verse I.e 13-Allah says fight them because they oppose Allah and their messenger,U R not alien to the fact that in those days many people through mischief cause harm to our Nobel apostle,U also quoted ch 9 v 29 incompletely -fight those who disbelieve in Allah and apostle,fight those who do not consider unlawful what Allah has considered unlawful,fight till they themselves get humbled".now fight has different meanings,for eg when we say to people that alcohol is haraam,but some people will not accept it,but when I tell the harmful effects some will agree,some will disagree,but those who have disagreed I will still try to stop them,similarly fight doesn't mean just to hit somebody,when U try to convince others not to do those deeds which are harmful for themselves,I.e fight.it depends on how U take it,since Allah forbids killing innocent human beings unless for murder or causing mischief(ch 5 v 32).logically keeping this verse in mind one will not cause harm to others,remember whatever verses for fighting is for those who cause mischief and harm people for their needs,Allah clearly says in ch 28 v 83-We will give the home of hereafter only to those who do not believe in causing mischief.

Yes Chapter 8 verse 12 mentions Angels. However it is obviously talking about human beings when it says �. �cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their head and strike off every fingertip of them."-

Sura (8:12)

 

Yes fight can have different meanings. But in Ch 9 verse 29 it is obviously talking about making war on the non believers.

 

Whose definition of mischief? Yours or Al Qaeda?
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Points: 867 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NABA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 June 2013 at 9:30am
brother U R quoting the verses out of context,U quoted the verse 12 of ch 8 incompletely.in that verse says-remember Allah inspired to angels-"I am with U and strengthen those who believe"then comes the lines U quoted,in the next verse I.e 13-Allah says fight them because they oppose Allah and their messenger,U R not alien to the fact that in those days many people through mischief cause harm to our Nobel apostle,U also quoted ch 9 v 29 incompletely -fight those who disbelieve in Allah and apostle,fight those who do not consider unlawful what Allah has considered unlawful,fight till they themselves get humbled".now fight has different meanings,for eg when we say to people that alcohol is haraam,but some people will not accept it,but when I tell the harmful effects some will agree,some will disagree,but those who have disagreed I will still try to stop them,similarly fight doesn't mean just to hit somebody,when U try to convince others not to do those deeds which are harmful for themselves,I.e fight.it depends on how U take it,since Allah forbids killing innocent human beings unless for murder or causing mischief(ch 5 v 32).logically keeping this verse in mind one will not cause harm to others,remember whatever verses for fighting is for those who cause mischief and harm people for their needs,Allah clearly says in ch 28 v 83-We will give the home of hereafter only to those who do not believe in causing mischief.

Edited by NABA - 26 June 2013 at 9:32am
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Originally posted by NABA NABA wrote:

we not at all can match Allah,the concept of God is mentioned in Ch 112 v 1-4-Allah is one,he is eternal,he begets not begot,there is nothing like him.so we cannot even think of matching Allah,since Allah says do good deeds and enter jannah,we have to do it,yes jesus(pbuh) was the peaceful man because he is one of the best prophets of Allah,all prophets are peaceful because they preach to submit will to Allah and acquire peace,in Surah Al Tawbah ch 9 v 12-it is mentioned fight those who attack ur religion,one can take different meanings,either fight literally our fight rather struggle to clear misconceptions,I ask U how would U feel if I attack ur religion,U will fight,in fact U should fight,as far as marrying with 9 yr old girl to prophet.Hazrat Aisha(may Allah b please with her)was naturally a very intelligent woman,in Islam when girl or boy attains puberty they are liable to marry,similarly she attained puberty and was ready to marry,in fact prophet always forbid forcing girl to marry,hazrat Aisha was superintelligent woman(may Allah b please with her).regarding having sex with slaves,in that time verse regarding to not have sex besides wife was not revealed.

Isa in the Injil (John 14.27.) did not just say we are to acquire peace but he said as The Christ Messiah he is peace.

 

If someone attacked my religion then, yes, I would struggle to clear the misconceptions. I would not riot, make death threats or pronounce fatwa like a lot of Muslims do.

 

The confusion with Islam is Jihad can have different meanings. And the Quran does say to make violent Jihad against those who do not believe �

 

 �cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their head and strike off every fingertip of them."-

Sura (8:12)

 

 "Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor follow the religion of truth... until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection."  

Sura 9:29

 

In regards to Aisha. It does not matter how you explain it. For a man aged in his 50s to have sex with a 9 year old girl is still disgusting.

 

You said regarding having sex with slaves, in that time the verse regarding to not have sex besides wife was not revealed. My answer is so what? The fact that Mohammad would even tell his men to have sex with the captured women is disgusting.

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Points: 867 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NABA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 June 2013 at 9:37am
we not at all can match Allah,the concept of God is mentioned in Ch 112 v 1-4-Allah is one,he is eternal,he begets not begot,there is nothing like him.so we cannot even think of matching Allah,since Allah says do good deeds and enter jannah,we have to do it,yes jesus(pbuh) was the peaceful man because he is one of the best prophets of Allah,all prophets are peaceful because they preach to submit will to Allah and acquire peace,in Surah Al Tawbah ch 9 v 12-it is mentioned fight those who attack ur religion,one can take different meanings,either fight literally our fight rather struggle to clear misconceptions,I ask U how would U feel if I attack ur religion,U will fight,in fact U should fight,as far as marrying with 9 yr old girl to prophet.Hazrat Aisha(may Allah b please with her)was naturally a very intelligent woman,in Islam when girl or boy attains puberty they are liable to marry,similarly she attained puberty and was ready to marry,in fact prophet always forbid forcing girl to marry,hazrat Aisha was superintelligent woman(may Allah b please with her).regarding having sex with slaves,in that time verse regarding to not have sex besides wife was not revealed.
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Originally posted by NABA NABA wrote:

if enemy does not become our friend we will continue to do good deeds because it will open the pathway for paradise as mentioned in Surah Al Asra ch 103 v 1-3-with token of time man is in state of loss except those who have faith,does good deeds,resorting people to truth,resorting people to patience and perseverance.Prophet Muhammad was the best human being,but he was a warrior too,what will u do if someone try to kill u,u will fight.we should b thankful that we are nit living during war periods,in those times every civilian should bbready for war,as today in Saudi.in Surah Al Tawbah ch 9 v 6-Allah says if any disbeliever wants peace forgive him and cast him to protective place.those violent verse were for those who want mischief on the land.

Surah Al Asra ch 103 v 1-3 has nothing to do with enemies. It does not even mention any thing about enemies.

Here is a good verse from Jesus about enemies �

"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor [fn] and hate your enemy.'   But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 

Mathew 5:43

Do you really think you are capable of enough faith and good deeds to match God? Can a mans deeds ever match and satisfy the glory of God?

How will the scales swing?

 

How was Mohammad the best human being?

He spoke badly of women and when he was aged in his 50s he married and had sex with a 9 year old girl. How disgusting!

He had the men of Ukl or Uraynah tortured by having their hands and feet cut off. Then he ordered for nails which were heated and passed over their eyes, and they were left in the desert. When they asked for water, they were given none and left to die.

He had his enemies assassinated and murdered.

He gave permission for his �warriors� to make slaves of captured women in battle and have sex with them. See the Quran Chapter 70.Verse 22-30.

I don�t see what is great about this Naba.

There is nothing fantastic about warriors. The world is full of them and most of the worlds problems are because of them.

Mohammad was a killer and a warrior. Isa. Jesus Christ The Messiah was a peace loving man. He said to Love your enemies. Mathew 5:43

 

You say in Surah Al Tawbah ch 9 v 6-Allah says if any disbeliever wants peace forgive him and cast him to protective place.

But read on Naba. Ch 9 verse 12 says �

But if they violate their oaths after their covenant, and attack your religion with disapproval and criticism, then fight (you) against the leaders of disbelief -- for surely, their oaths are nothing to them -- so that they may stop (evil actions).

 

So nothing wonderful here !

 

Muslims quote peaceful verses from the Quran and Muslims quote violent verses from the Quran. Either Muslims are confused, or the Quran is confused, or both.

When Mohammad and Islam were weak in the early days they said to be peaceful. When they got stronger later they said to be violent.

Who decides peaceful verses or violent verses? Al Qaeda or you ?

And then there is the issue of abrogation in the Quran which makes the Quran even more confused. You have not answered Bronaz on this in the other post about the Quran.
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if enemy does not become our friend we will continue to do good deeds because it will open the pathway for paradise as mentioned in Surah Al Asra ch 103 v 1-3-with token of time man is in state of loss except those who have faith,does good deeds,resorting people to truth,resorting people to patience and perseverance.Prophet Muhammad was the best human being,but he was a warrior too,what will u do if someone try to kill u,u will fight.we should b thankful that we are nit living during war periods,in those times every civilian should bbready for war,as today in Saudi.in Surah Al Tawbah ch 9 v 6-Allah says if any disbeliever wants peace forgive him and cast him to protective place.those violent verse were for those who want mischief on the land.
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Originally posted by NABA NABA wrote:

first of All a person cannot b called a Muslim unless he is peaceful,so there is no question to quote peaceful Muslims.if a person calls himself a Muslim then automatically he is peaceful,because Muslim is a person who acquires peace by submitting will to Allah and follow Quran and sayings of prophet.a person does not need to have arabic/persian name to b a muslim.for eg take this verse Surah Al Fussilat ch 41 v 34-Allah says no doubt a bad deed cannot b equal to a good deed,b good to your enemy and then U will c that he had become ur best friend.jihad doesn't mean to fight or cause terror,jihad means to strive and struggle.a common man doing hard work to feed his family,this is jihad,a wife taking care of whole household,this is jihad.those people who call themselves jihadists and cause terror among innocent human beings are not Muslims,they are those who are buildings their place in the hell.

Here is more of the Quran �

 

�cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their head and strike off every fingertip of them."-

Sura (8:12)

 

 "Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor follow the religion of truth... until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection."  

Sura 9:29

 

Regarding Sura 41.34 and doing good deeds to enemies. And if they don�t become your friend? What then? If they are pagans who will not follow your prophet, what then? Cut off their hands and feet, ambush them, kill them and crucify them.

 

Also your prophet was not peaceful. He was a violent man and lived by the sword. He had blood on his hands. He even gave his soldiers permission to take captured women as prizes.

 

Yes, Jihad has different meanings. Sometimes to do with striving to do good work, feeding your family or spiritual goodness. However it can also mean killing by the sword.

The Fascist Jihadists are not totally wrong. It is what Quran says and what Mohammad did. They follow his teachings and his example.
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�O you who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allaah, even though it be against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin�

[al-Nisa� 4:135] 
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