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AhmadJoyia
Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2005 Status: Offline Points: 1647 |
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Can you explain why you think Quran gives only one and same title (People of the Book) for the two different group of people? 1) Jews/Christians + others not converted to Islam. 2) Jews/Christians who became Muslims. Very strange theory. Please do support your theory by providing authentic references. I shall appreciate it.
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Abu Loren
Senior Member Joined: 29 June 2012 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1646 |
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The reason I think Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala mentions the new Muslims as the people of the book is to differentiate them.
Abd Allah bin Salem is just an example as a believer from the people of the book.
One can only be on the right path if they become a Muslim because Islam is the only religion acceptable to Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala. Nowhere in the Qur'an does it teach plurality and tolerance of other religions. Those people of the book who do not accept the teachings of the Qur'an nor the prophethood of Mohammad (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) are doomed. It seems that your understanding of the Qur'an and IslaM is at fault. (No offence). |
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La Ilaha IllAllah
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AhmadJoyia
Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2005 Status: Offline Points: 1647 |
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Dear Bro Abu Loren: I am really sorry to say that I am not convinced with your evidence of Tafseer that these verses are talking about those 'People of the Book' who had converted to Islam. Simply because after conversion they did not remain Christians or Jews. They all became Muslims and one can't expect Quran would address them yet as the 'People of the Book'. Secondly, there is nothing in your Tafseer which says anything about this other than very oblique reference to one unknown person Abd Allāh b. Salām. One must not confuse with the name, as such names were very common among the Arabic People of the Book. On the more, kindly look at the following 6 translations of Quran, which clearly talks in the present tense of grammar:- 1. Sahih International: They are not [all] the same; among the People of the Scripture is a community standing [in obedience], reciting the verses of Allah during periods of the night and prostrating [in prayer]. 2. Pickthall: They are not all alike. Of the People of the Scripture there is a staunch community who recite the revelations of Allah in the night season, falling prostrate (before Him). 3. Yusuf Ali: Not all of them are alike: Of the People of the Book are a portion that stand (For the right): They rehearse the Signs of Allah all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration. 4. Shakir: They are not all alike; of the followers of the Book there is an upright party; they recite Allah's communications in the nighttime and they adore (Him). 5. Muhammad Sarwar: The People of the Book are not all the same. Some of them are straightforward. They recite the words of God in prostration at night. 6. Mohsin Khan: Not all of them are alike; a party of the people of the Scripture stand for the right, they recite the Verses of Allah during the hours of the night, prostrating themselves in prayer. So essentially these verses are making a clear exception within the 'People of the Book' who are on the right path. Look at the very next verse which says "Yusuf Ali: They believe in Allah and the Last Day; they enjoin what is right, and forbid what is wrong; and they hasten (in emulation) in (all) good works: They are in the ranks of the righteous." These verses clearly teach plurality and tolerance, at least within the 'People of the Book'. Edited by AhmadJoyia - 06 December 2015 at 10:48am |
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Caringheart
Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Status: Offline Points: 2991 |
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Scripture teaches, �From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and He marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands� (Acts 17:26).
There is a corresponding verse from the qur'an similar to this. |
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Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
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Caringheart
Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Status: Offline Points: 2991 |
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6:111 And though We should send down the angels unto them, and the dead should speak unto them, and We should gather against them all things in array, they would not believe unless Allah so willed. Howbeit, most of them are ignorant.
from the book of Luke, the record of the Word of Yshwe, chapter 16; 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead. Edited by Caringheart - 06 December 2014 at 11:09am |
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Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
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Caringheart
Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Status: Offline Points: 2991 |
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I found this very interesting/enlightening Honor
Arab storytellers tell the story of a father who is working in
the hot sun with two of his sons. When he needed a drink of water,
he asked the older of the boys to get him some. 'No, I will not,'
the elder son replied. The father then asked his younger son who
said 'Yes, certainly father.' but he did not get the water. At
this point the storyteller always asks his audience, "Which
is the better son?" To give the wrong answer would be shaming but the storyteller knows that his listeners will give the correct answer. The younger son is the better of the two because he had saved his father's face by not defying him. In the west we would point out that both
boys were wrong. This seems irrelevant to the Arab who does not
think in terms of right and wrong, but in terms of shame and honor.
To say no to your father's face would be to dishonor him. To agree
with him, while in front of him, is to honor him. When Jesus told a similar story in Matthew 21:28-32, he added that the first son, who refused, later went and did what the father asked. In this way, he restored honor by obeying his father. Jesus used this illustration to show that repentance covers shame, a concept that has been adopted by western Christianity. I add here the passage... the teaching of Yshwe; 28 But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard. 29 He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went. 30 And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not. 31 Which of them did the will of his father?In my own words I add... who truly honors the father? Edited by Caringheart - 14 October 2014 at 8:59pm |
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Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
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Abu Loren
Senior Member Joined: 29 June 2012 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1646 |
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Poor Caringheart. You still don't get it. This is proof positive that your heart and head is covered by a veil of misunderstanding. ALL THE PROPHETS AND MESSENGERS CAME WITH THE SAME MESSAGE. When will you understand? The MESSAGE is from Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala the ONLY ONE GOD. |
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La Ilaha IllAllah
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Caringheart
Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Status: Offline Points: 2991 |
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The Prophet صلى الله عليه وآله was asked: O Messenger of Allah, when will the Qa�im appear from your offspring? So he said: Its [time is] like the proverb of the Hour, about which is said, �He alone will manifest it at its proper time. It is heavy in the heavens and the Earth. It shall not come upon you except unexpectedly.� (7:187)
It seems here that Muhammad is directly quoting Biblical scripture. Luke 21 - the Word of Yshwe 34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. 35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. 37 And in the day time he was teaching in the temple; and at night he went out, and abode in the mount that is called the mount of Olives. 38 And all the people came early in the morning to him in the temple, for to hear him. 'No one knows the hour but the Creator... and that day may may come as a 'thief in the night'' 36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. 43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. (Matthew 24) 32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. 33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is. 34 For the Son of Man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch. 35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: 36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. 37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch. (Mark 13) - all the words of Yshwe Edited by Caringheart - 06 October 2014 at 2:27pm |
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Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
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