CRUCIFIED OR CRUCIPLAYED

Reepicheep wrote: Well, iec786, since you continue to make false claims about the contents of�Deedat's book, I see little point in continuing this discussion. � The only muslim sect that considers the swoon theory to be true is the Ahmadiyyas.� I've never understood why so many Sunni muslims consider Deedat to be a great scholar, when his writings not only contradict Sunni beliefs,�they also�contradict the koran.

Let me tell you Islam has no sects? All these so called wanna be Muslims,claim to follow Islam the way they see it.Islam is One Allah and Muhammad is the final messenger.Quraan and the hadith.



iec786, since you continue to make false claims about the contents of�Deedat's book

Such as?

The only muslim sect that considers the swoon theory to be true is the Ahmadiyyas. These are not in the fold of Islam.

Reepicheep wrote: iec786 wrote: Judas the traitor was crucified in the place Jesus.If you read the book you would have known this... I strongly suggest you take time out and read the book. �iec786 also wrote: Deedat never worked with theory he worked with facts. � You seem to be saying that Deedat was telling the truth when he claimed that it WAS Jesus who was arrested by the Romans, put on trial, sentenced to death, put on the cross, declared dead, put into the tomb, and later revived.� Correct? � But, in your previous post, you stated that it wasn't Jesus but instead Judas who was crucified. � How can both these beliefs be true?� They contradict each other.

Deedat did not claim the anything he was quoting what the Bible said jeez how do you read a book.

I must address this as I have given it quite a lot of study.
Here iec786 is asserting that, according to Islam, Judas was crucified in Jesus' place.  How does he think this occurred... this substitution?
I have had arguments with other Muslims who assert that there was a bar-Jesus that took Jesus' place on the cross, due to Roman error.
Anyone who knows anything about Romans, and Roman history, and the Roman military and societal structure, knows that  such an error would never happen.  It would have cost the soldier his own life to allow such a mistake or substitution, to occur.  Romans were not careless in their duties due to the cost to their own lives if they were.  Romans were ruthless.

As far as witnesses at the cross, Mary the mother of Jesus was there, Mary Magdalene was there... many women were there... 'all the people who had gathered to witness this sight saw what took place'... and so was John whom Jesus gave charge to be as a son to Mary His mother, after His death.
"When Jesus then saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing nearby, He said to His mother, "Woman, behold, your son!"

The disciples fled yes, at Jesus capture, but no where is there any statement as to whether or not they returned, to watch at a distance, the crucifixion.  This matter is not addressed, except in as much as the above statement.  We do not know which of them may have been there, aside from 'the disciple whom He loved', assumed to be John.  

It is sensible to me to assume that they were there.  Joseph of Arimathea("a disciple of Jesus, but secretly because he feared the Jews") came to claim the body to bury it.  How could the disciples not be there to witness the end of one they loved so much... to watch and see how He might be saved at the last minute.
The greater testimony is in the crowd of witnesses who saw Jesus after His resurrection.

All these reports were never disputed during the time in which they were being written... during the time in which the witnesses would still have been living and well able to make dispute.

Addressing the topic of this thread it seems clear to me that Mr Deedat does indeed contradict the teaching of both the Bible and the Qur'an.

Edited by Caringheart - 11 June 2012 at 1:23pm

Reepicheep wrote: iec786 wrote: Judas the traitor was crucified in the place Jesus.If you read the book you would have known this... I strongly suggest you take time out and read the book. � Of course I've read the book.� I would be quite the fool if I was to make claims about what was in the book, if I hadn't read it.� Right? � Your recent comment causes me to repeat the comment I made on April 12 within this thread: � I suspect you haven't read Deedat's book and have no idea of what it contains, correct? � Deedat's book�defends the "swoon" theory of the crucifixion, which states in brief: � Jesus was crucified on the cross. He sufferred and became unconscious. The Roman soldiers thought he was dead. He was buried in a tomb. Then his disciples came and resuscitated him. I don't see how Deedat's theory can be reconciled with what is written in the koran.� And Deedat certainly didn't accept the theory that Judas was crucified in place of Jesus.

The Bible says all his disciples forsook him and fled.Does all mean all in your language?if yes then who seen who on the cross remember all those who swore to die for him forsook him and fled like cowards.


    And Deedat certainly didn't accept the theory that Judas was crucified in place of Jesus.

Deedat never worked with theory he worked with facts.