Category: Americas, World Affairs Topics: Occupation Views: 2651
2651
Coexistence, Not Apartheid
 |
For the last 60 years, all those who have sought a genuinely peaceful and fair solution for Israel and Palestine have faced the same obstacle - Israel's sense of invincibility and military arrogance, abetted by the US and other Western governments' unwavering support.
Despite recent setbacks on the military front, the Israeli government is yet to awaken to the reality that Israel is simply not invincible. The wheel of history, which has seen the rise and fall of many great powers, won't grind to a halt. Experiences have also repeatedly shown that neither Israel's nuclear arms nor Washington's billions of dollars in annual funds could create 'security' for the former.
While Israel can celebrate whatever skewed version of history it wishes to, it still cannot defeat a people, ordinary people armed with their will to survive and reclaim what was rightfully theirs. The same problem confronted the US in Vietnam, France in Algeria and Italy in Libya. The Palestinian people will not evaporate. Attempts to undermine Palestinian unity, instigate civil violence, and groom and present shady characters as 'representatives' of Palestinians have failed in the past and will continue to fail.
Representing, and thus dealing with the conflict as one invented and sustained by Arab greed and Palestinian terrorism helped Israel garner sympathy, while simultaneously convoluting what should have been an urgent example of injustice, predicated on colonialism and ethnic cleansing.
More, depicting the mere existence of Palestinians as a 'threat', a 'problem' and a 'demographic bomb' is inhumane and actually a full-fledged form of racism. Throughout its 60 years of existence, successive Israeli governments have treated Palestinians - the native inhabitants of historic Palestine - as undesired and thus negligible inhabitants of a land that was promised only to Jews by some divine power thousands of years ago.
This archaic concept has managed to define mainstream politics in Israel, and increasingly the US, allowing religious doctrines to discriminate and brutally repress Palestinians, both citizens of Israel and residents of the occupied Territories.
Needless to say, neither a figurative Iron wall, like that proposed by Vladimir Jabotinsky in 1923, nor an actual massive and menacing structure as the one being erected in the West Bank can really separate Israel from its 'problem', the Palestinians. An area roughly the size of the US state of Vermont cannot sustain such a complex model - a country that is open unconditionally for all Jews who wish to immigrate, and an oppressed population that is caged in between walls, fences, and hundreds of checkpoints - without inviting perpetual conflict.
What Israel has created in Palestine belies its own claim that its ultimate wish is peace with security. While occupied East Jerusalem is entirely annexed by an Israeli government diktat, 40 per cent of the total size of the West Bank is used exclusively for the purposes of the illegal Jewish settlers and the Israeli military. How can Israel's claim of wanting to live in peace be taken seriously if it continues to invade the lives, confiscate the land and usurp the water of Palestinians?
When Israel invaded East Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza in 1967, the Jewish citizens of Israel celebrated the 'return' of biblical Judea and Samaria and the reunification of Jerusalem. Nearly 300,000 more Palestinians were ethnically cleansed, adding to the many more who were evicted from historic Palestine in 1948.
Yet, most Palestinians have remained hostage to the Israeli-invented limbo that suggests they were neither citizens of Israel, nor of their own state, nor deserving of the rights of an occupied civilian population under the Geneva Convention.
Despite this, Israel's insistence on employing military 'solutions' in its dealing with Palestinians have constantly backfired. Palestinians naturally rebelled and were repeatedly suppressed, which only worsened the feud and heightened the level of violence.
The PLO's acceptance of Israel's existence, and UN Resolution 242 as a first step towards a two state solution was both ridiculed and rejected by the Israeli government, which continued to arrange for its own ineffective and ultimately destructive solutions.
Throughout the years, Israel translated its military strength to erect more settlements and move its population to occupied Palestinian territories. Even after the Oslo Accords of September 1993, the construction of settlements didn't slow down, but rather accelerated. After the most recent peace talks in Annapolis in November 2007, Israel continues to grant more permits to build more homes in illegal settlements under the guise of 'natural expansion.'
But it may have gone too far, leaving itself and Palestinians with few options now.
In a November 29, 2007 interview with Israeli daily Ha'aretz, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert warned that without a two-state agreement, Israel would face "a South African-style struggle for equal voting rights" in which case "Israel (would be) finished." It's ironic that Israeli leaders are now advocating the same solution that they vehemently rejected in the past. However, the Israeli version of the two-state agreement hardly meets the minimum expectations of Palestinians.
Without Jerusalem, without their refugees' right of return as enshrined in UN resolution 194 and with a West Bank dotted with over 216 settlements and scarred by a mammoth wall, asking Palestinians to accept an Israeli version of the two-state solution is asking them to agree to their eternal imprisonment, subjugation and defeat - which they have rejected generation after generation.
If Israel is indeed interested in a peaceful resolution to this bloody conflict, one that is based on equal human and legal rights, justice, security and lasting peace, then it must add a new word to its lexicon: coexistence. Jews and Arabs coexisted peacefully prior to the rise of Zionism, and they are capable of doing so in the future. Any other solution would simply institutionalize racism and apartheid, undermine democracy and human rights and thus further perpetuate violence.
It's time for a secular, democratic state to cease being part of a removed academic discussion, and instead be integrated into mainstream debate, if not dialogue in Palestine and Israel. This is the right, moral and indeed urgent course of action required now.
Ramzy Baroud (www.ramzybaroud.net) is an author and editor of PalestineChronicle.com. His work has been published in many newspapers and journals worldwide. His latest book is The Second Palestinian Intifada: A Chronicle of a People's Struggle (Pluto Press, London).
Related Suggestions
Older Comments:
ROMESH CHANDER FROM USA said:
Note to Mr Edriss:
You write "just from Spain alone, millions of jewish who converted to Islam after being genocided or moved by the roman catholics, with the moslems who lived there. and the majority of them are North African Moslems today... they are not going to get the land of meeting promised to their unlucky forefathers 4000 years ago???"..
Fine with me. Now let us apply that argument to Palestinians. Does that mean that if Palestinians wait another few hundred years, they will have no claim to Palestine either, just like Jews have no claim to land in Spain and Arabia, and muslims have no claim to lands in Spain (Remember, Muslims were also kicked out of Spain along with Jews too)?
Is that what you mean?
Don't get mad at me. It is your thesis, not mine.
What is good for gander is also good for goose.
You write "just from Spain alone, millions of jewish who converted to Islam after being genocided or moved by the roman catholics, with the moslems who lived there. and the majority of them are North African Moslems today... they are not going to get the land of meeting promised to their unlucky forefathers 4000 years ago???"..
Fine with me. Now let us apply that argument to Palestinians. Does that mean that if Palestinians wait another few hundred years, they will have no claim to Palestine either, just like Jews have no claim to land in Spain and Arabia, and muslims have no claim to lands in Spain (Remember, Muslims were also kicked out of Spain along with Jews too)?
Is that what you mean?
Don't get mad at me. It is your thesis, not mine.
What is good for gander is also good for goose.
()
RAMESH CHANDER FROM USA said:
romesh chander you are in reality sound like azionist or mossad spy. the way you write. defending the evil actions of israel all the time if you were a neutral man then your writings would be differnet you are arcist jerk who will face the same end as the ariel sharon or ven wors.e just wait and watch what god has instore for you whatver race or kabbalah or jewish black magic practicing cult you belong to.
()
DR EDRISS FROM US said:
romesh, when you gonna go get a real job and leave this stupid job that you are in? if I was Indian like you, I will be working in what benefit my people so when I get incarnated to a chiwawa, I will not be chased by the untouchables in street.
don't get mad romesh and unleash your chiwawa soul on me here? I still love you and your NO LOGIC friend. I just want to tell you: don't waste your time fighting people who did nothing to you for couple dollars? think if you incarnate to a chiwawa in middleeast? think of karma and how you gonna be treated? :)
what I wrote about the myth of Israel is the fact and everybody knows it, when he thinks about it. and it is mainly directed to the people who live in Israel and the Arabs. they have big problem to resolve this problem, because they don't see the real problem...they look at fake image of it.
today, I saw olmer or whatever his name saying in one of TV channels, it's his land 3000 years ago :).
the problem, he was speaking to a reporter who is worst than him :). he told him Islam give it to moslems!!! that's the kind of retards with logic I spoke about... not you NO LOGIC! you still didn't develope one :)
just from Spain alone, millions of jewish who converted to Islam after being genocided or moved by the roman catholics, with the moslems who lived there. and the majority of them are North African Moslems today... they are not going to get the land of meeting promised to their unlucky forefathers 4000 years ago???
Oh! Olmert doesn't count them because he is from the sons of Israel tribes and his age is 4001 years old. shoooot! I didn't get this right! the people in Israel are all older than 4001 and they came from the heaven to get the land promised to them :).
that's the end of copying anglosaxon's mentality: living in fear from what tomorrow may brings...I feel sorry for the kids...
romesh, when you gonna go get a real job and leave this stupid job that you are in? if I was Indian like you, I will be working in what benefit my people so when I get incarnated to a chiwawa, I will not be chased by the untouchables in street.
don't get mad romesh and unleash your chiwawa soul on me here? I still love you and your NO LOGIC friend. I just want to tell you: don't waste your time fighting people who did nothing to you for couple dollars? think if you incarnate to a chiwawa in middleeast? think of karma and how you gonna be treated? :)
what I wrote about the myth of Israel is the fact and everybody knows it, when he thinks about it. and it is mainly directed to the people who live in Israel and the Arabs. they have big problem to resolve this problem, because they don't see the real problem...they look at fake image of it.
today, I saw olmer or whatever his name saying in one of TV channels, it's his land 3000 years ago :).
the problem, he was speaking to a reporter who is worst than him :). he told him Islam give it to moslems!!! that's the kind of retards with logic I spoke about... not you NO LOGIC! you still didn't develope one :)
just from Spain alone, millions of jewish who converted to Islam after being genocided or moved by the roman catholics, with the moslems who lived there. and the majority of them are North African Moslems today... they are not going to get the land of meeting promised to their unlucky forefathers 4000 years ago???
Oh! Olmert doesn't count them because he is from the sons of Israel tribes and his age is 4001 years old. shoooot! I didn't get this right! the people in Israel are all older than 4001 and they came from the heaven to get the land promised to them :).
that's the end of copying anglosaxon's mentality: living in fear from what tomorrow may brings...I feel sorry for the kids...
()
ROMESH CHANDER FROM USA said:
Note to Dr Edriss regarding reply to Uncle Logic (#49100):
For an educated person, you do not use any logic. Your reply may be fine in a captive audience (e.g., a mosque), but not in a public forum like internet. I wonder how can you communicate with anybody and convince them with your point of view without using common sense logic.
For an educated person, you do not use any logic. Your reply may be fine in a captive audience (e.g., a mosque), but not in a public forum like internet. I wonder how can you communicate with anybody and convince them with your point of view without using common sense logic.
()
ROMESH CHANDER FROM USA said:
Note to Dr Edriss:
You write "British and US, Aussie or Canada... supported this myth called Israel... there is no biblical root to Israel.".
If Israel is just a myth, then who are you fighting? People don't myths with guns, intifada and suicide bombers. If it is just a myth, why are Arabs & Muslims so uptight about it and get nightmares about it?. Israel is a relity and you know it. How long will Israel last? I don't know and I don't care. After all mighty empires like Ottomans, Mughals, British, French, Spain vanished in a poof; the sorriest state was that of Mughals who for over 50 years (since 1803 till 1857) did not rule but were pensioners of a commercial corporation; at the end, many of the descendants of Mughals became beggars, because they had no other skills to earn a living. Will Israel end that way, I don't know. It is immaterial Israel has any biblical roots, it is reality today and has been for the last 60 years.
You also write "God never promised any land to anybody from 20 century(most of the people fail to see that)! God is not a joke like, the people who believe myths present it. if God promise any people something, He will, with no doubt, fullfill His promise".
Dr Edriss, I wonder if God has been talking to you? If that is the case, then you should consider declaring yourself a 'prophet' (oops, that will start monstrous wars; but just a thought).
You also write "WE WILL LIE TO OURSELVES IF WE CLAIM THERE IS A SOLUTION TO WHAT IS HAPPENING IN PALESTINE.".
Dr Edriss, please, who does not lie? Are you saying musims/Arabs never lie and Britts, Americans, and Jews/Hindus lie? Lying is a common trait to all civilizations (no exceptions).
Could I make a suggestion. Please think before you write. For an educated person like you, your comments don't make any sense, because they have no logic. No offense, please; I enjoy rants of educated persons.
You write "British and US, Aussie or Canada... supported this myth called Israel... there is no biblical root to Israel.".
If Israel is just a myth, then who are you fighting? People don't myths with guns, intifada and suicide bombers. If it is just a myth, why are Arabs & Muslims so uptight about it and get nightmares about it?. Israel is a relity and you know it. How long will Israel last? I don't know and I don't care. After all mighty empires like Ottomans, Mughals, British, French, Spain vanished in a poof; the sorriest state was that of Mughals who for over 50 years (since 1803 till 1857) did not rule but were pensioners of a commercial corporation; at the end, many of the descendants of Mughals became beggars, because they had no other skills to earn a living. Will Israel end that way, I don't know. It is immaterial Israel has any biblical roots, it is reality today and has been for the last 60 years.
You also write "God never promised any land to anybody from 20 century(most of the people fail to see that)! God is not a joke like, the people who believe myths present it. if God promise any people something, He will, with no doubt, fullfill His promise".
Dr Edriss, I wonder if God has been talking to you? If that is the case, then you should consider declaring yourself a 'prophet' (oops, that will start monstrous wars; but just a thought).
You also write "WE WILL LIE TO OURSELVES IF WE CLAIM THERE IS A SOLUTION TO WHAT IS HAPPENING IN PALESTINE.".
Dr Edriss, please, who does not lie? Are you saying musims/Arabs never lie and Britts, Americans, and Jews/Hindus lie? Lying is a common trait to all civilizations (no exceptions).
Could I make a suggestion. Please think before you write. For an educated person like you, your comments don't make any sense, because they have no logic. No offense, please; I enjoy rants of educated persons.
()
DR EDRISS FROM US said:
uncle NO logic, when you finish throwing up, clean up the table? I thought you self claimed jewish at the begining!!! unfortunatly, you are just one more untouchable who hang 24/7 like romesh.
get lost? or go back to India and deal with untouchable problems? leave your CEO come here defend Israel? :)
last message for you, midget! :)
uncle NO logic, when you finish throwing up, clean up the table? I thought you self claimed jewish at the begining!!! unfortunatly, you are just one more untouchable who hang 24/7 like romesh.
get lost? or go back to India and deal with untouchable problems? leave your CEO come here defend Israel? :)
last message for you, midget! :)
()
UNCLE LOGIC FROM UK said:
Doc Ed, was there a five year old dictating or something?? You did not de bunk anything I said you just made some clueless statements and a load of dribble. Have you been taking pills sold to you in a night club or bang your head really really hard or something? I think you need to see a doctor, I have no idea what you were raving about, all I know is it wasn't a very good counter argument.
()
UNCLE LOGIC FROM UK said:
A good question andi, I make sure the claims are not just made in one source and do take other things into account. For example, I remember watching an American show in which an old Texan guy interviewed an ex Muslim author from Egypt who had written books with titles like Islam and terrorism and the truth about jihad etc. They had a long conversation about how bad Egypt is and was and then about how he found Christianity and how he was persecuted for it.
But I am aware of the criticisms; he interviewed ONE apostate, no doubt the one who proved his point the best and overall it seemed very much to just be an attempt to demonise Islam mostly in a desperate attempt to turn Muslims against their religion and turn to Christianity, the religion of the host and guest. Making money also seemed to be a factor.
And I once saw an British tv show in which over a dozen Muslim apostate were interviewed and quotes from Saudi published books were read, however a Muslim Imam who wanted to point out that much of these actions are not part of Islam as it should be was allowed to voice his opinions on the show and it also pointed out that Muslims who convert are not always well supported in the Christian community so it wasn't just about having a go at Islam. Overall this show was better than the other because it's only real motive was to show there are flaws in the Muslim community in Britain and not about making an attack on the religion itself.
If a statement is sufficiently backed and supported by actual detail I accept it, I don't just see what I want to see.
There was this man on youtube and various websites etc who's posted hundreds of videos against Islam you may have seen some, his original username was Investigate Islam but I'm sure that one got taken off. Anyway it became obvious he was just totally full of hate and he showed some verses of the Koran and really twisted what the verses were saying until they seemed to be say someting violent.
But I am aware of the criticisms; he interviewed ONE apostate, no doubt the one who proved his point the best and overall it seemed very much to just be an attempt to demonise Islam mostly in a desperate attempt to turn Muslims against their religion and turn to Christianity, the religion of the host and guest. Making money also seemed to be a factor.
And I once saw an British tv show in which over a dozen Muslim apostate were interviewed and quotes from Saudi published books were read, however a Muslim Imam who wanted to point out that much of these actions are not part of Islam as it should be was allowed to voice his opinions on the show and it also pointed out that Muslims who convert are not always well supported in the Christian community so it wasn't just about having a go at Islam. Overall this show was better than the other because it's only real motive was to show there are flaws in the Muslim community in Britain and not about making an attack on the religion itself.
If a statement is sufficiently backed and supported by actual detail I accept it, I don't just see what I want to see.
There was this man on youtube and various websites etc who's posted hundreds of videos against Islam you may have seen some, his original username was Investigate Islam but I'm sure that one got taken off. Anyway it became obvious he was just totally full of hate and he showed some verses of the Koran and really twisted what the verses were saying until they seemed to be say someting violent.
()
ROMESH CHANDER FROM USA said:
Reply to Ahmed Asghar:
You write "Now see if your home, dignity and family were annihilated; and collectively punished as a criminal in your own country with NO recourse to justice - emphasis on last point - Then tell this forum: How would you react?".
Good point. Now let us go back to Muslim History. How did Muhammed treat Jews when he ruled Arabia in the 7th century? Do you remember that? He slaughtered quite a few, kicked a lot of them, made slaves many of them, and confiscated their land and businesses; and forbade Jews to come to Arabia. Today, no Jews can visit Muhammed's Arabia, not to talk of living there. Do you call that treatment with justice and diginity?
May be Jews are getting even with Muslims (I don't know really if they are doing that). But what is wrong with getting even? After all it is an Arab tribal trait to take revenge even if it takes decades and even centuries. Well, at least Jews have not eliminated Muslims from Palestine/Israel; if they would have done that, then it would have been really getting even and taking revenge.
Read your history. Other people have not forgotten how they were treated. Yes, Ottomans welcomed Jews. But they are not Arabs. Actually, Ottomans ruled Arabs for 400-500 years, and Arabs did not launch a single revolt against Ottomans. Because muslims want to be ruled by muslims. And they have opposing Jews in Palestine since 1890's.
US supports Turks because they serve our purpose; they keep a check on Russia and on Arabs too; so US $$ are well spent. Americans are businessmen; they don't give anybody something for nothing. Of course, like everybody, Americans do make mistakes like Iraq war.
You write "Now see if your home, dignity and family were annihilated; and collectively punished as a criminal in your own country with NO recourse to justice - emphasis on last point - Then tell this forum: How would you react?".
Good point. Now let us go back to Muslim History. How did Muhammed treat Jews when he ruled Arabia in the 7th century? Do you remember that? He slaughtered quite a few, kicked a lot of them, made slaves many of them, and confiscated their land and businesses; and forbade Jews to come to Arabia. Today, no Jews can visit Muhammed's Arabia, not to talk of living there. Do you call that treatment with justice and diginity?
May be Jews are getting even with Muslims (I don't know really if they are doing that). But what is wrong with getting even? After all it is an Arab tribal trait to take revenge even if it takes decades and even centuries. Well, at least Jews have not eliminated Muslims from Palestine/Israel; if they would have done that, then it would have been really getting even and taking revenge.
Read your history. Other people have not forgotten how they were treated. Yes, Ottomans welcomed Jews. But they are not Arabs. Actually, Ottomans ruled Arabs for 400-500 years, and Arabs did not launch a single revolt against Ottomans. Because muslims want to be ruled by muslims. And they have opposing Jews in Palestine since 1890's.
US supports Turks because they serve our purpose; they keep a check on Russia and on Arabs too; so US $$ are well spent. Americans are businessmen; they don't give anybody something for nothing. Of course, like everybody, Americans do make mistakes like Iraq war.
()
AHMED ASGHER FROM BAHRAIN said:
Romesh: You obviously think that many Muslims support the ottomans or the despotic rulers of the Gulf, supported by American empire and your tax dollar. Did you know that modern Turkey and Morocco took Jewish victims of Holocaust more that any country at the time?
You seem to read only from one source to prove your point. A balanced mind reads boths sides of a story.
Visit http://ifamericansonlyknew.com/
Now see if your home, dignity and family were annihilated; and collectively punished as a criminal in your own country with NO recourse to justice - emphasis on last point - Then tell this forum: How would you react?
Your comment will be heard when you have seen and felt the plight of the innocent. Until then keep safe behind your laptop in your newfoundland.
You obviously have a grudge against all Muslims and can not agree with anyone, no matter how? You see their religion as the cause of trouble and mostly believe in your own superior self.
Peace.
p.s. try answering my question pasued to you without digressing.
You seem to read only from one source to prove your point. A balanced mind reads boths sides of a story.
Visit http://ifamericansonlyknew.com/
Now see if your home, dignity and family were annihilated; and collectively punished as a criminal in your own country with NO recourse to justice - emphasis on last point - Then tell this forum: How would you react?
Your comment will be heard when you have seen and felt the plight of the innocent. Until then keep safe behind your laptop in your newfoundland.
You obviously have a grudge against all Muslims and can not agree with anyone, no matter how? You see their religion as the cause of trouble and mostly believe in your own superior self.
Peace.
p.s. try answering my question pasued to you without digressing.
()
DR EDRISS FROM US said:
WOW! uncle logic! what did you left to uncle NO logic !!!??? :)
you got trapped in believing myths!!! I know how it feels to be raised with a mother telling you everyday you are chosen, later you find out you are just animal evolved following darwin :). I already supposed that you refuse the truth sent by the Almighty where humans are the same created from one father and one mother. :)
don't worry? I said at the end that we can not know the end of this problem because it involves retards with logic!!! sometimes I think of myself as descendent of jewish but thanks God to my forefather who did much better and accepted the truth of Islam: if I was left believing to be chosen and have a land of meeting, I will be here ranting to justify the genocide of palestinians as "God with us".
there is ignorance and there is artificial ignorance. what we see in Israel can be called artificial ignorance... the people involved in the land of meeting myth, can see the truth but they can't accept it... there is no where to go after acknowledging the right of palestinians... they end it building artificial ignorance to be able to survive no matter what.
the root of the problem is the Anglosaxon mentality copied by the people who thought themselves converted to jewdaism.
WOW! uncle logic! what did you left to uncle NO logic !!!??? :)
you got trapped in believing myths!!! I know how it feels to be raised with a mother telling you everyday you are chosen, later you find out you are just animal evolved following darwin :). I already supposed that you refuse the truth sent by the Almighty where humans are the same created from one father and one mother. :)
don't worry? I said at the end that we can not know the end of this problem because it involves retards with logic!!! sometimes I think of myself as descendent of jewish but thanks God to my forefather who did much better and accepted the truth of Islam: if I was left believing to be chosen and have a land of meeting, I will be here ranting to justify the genocide of palestinians as "God with us".
there is ignorance and there is artificial ignorance. what we see in Israel can be called artificial ignorance... the people involved in the land of meeting myth, can see the truth but they can't accept it... there is no where to go after acknowledging the right of palestinians... they end it building artificial ignorance to be able to survive no matter what.
the root of the problem is the Anglosaxon mentality copied by the people who thought themselves converted to jewdaism.
()
ANDI FROM INDONESIA said:
to:uncle logic
i believe u have many information on what's going on in jerusalem. but how do you kinow you are not misinformed your self? because my self, i don't believe anything which the media tell me before i go there by my self.
have you been to jerusalem? all i'm saying is that you sound like you're the one who's having the right informations and make conclusions based on that. it's a crazy world with full of deceptions nowdays, some people can manipulate information in order to favor their interests.
i believe u have many information on what's going on in jerusalem. but how do you kinow you are not misinformed your self? because my self, i don't believe anything which the media tell me before i go there by my self.
have you been to jerusalem? all i'm saying is that you sound like you're the one who's having the right informations and make conclusions based on that. it's a crazy world with full of deceptions nowdays, some people can manipulate information in order to favor their interests.
()
ROMESH CHANDER FROM USA said:
Note to Azeez:
You write "How could illegal Jewsih state be honored while it reject the Prophethood of Jesus(p)?".
Wait a minute. I thought you are a muslim. Now why do muslims have to worry about what Jews think of Jesus? Are musims the keepers of every religion? I don't think so. After all, muslims don't care about Hindusism, Budhhism, Animism, Pagans, polythiests, etc; they are valid religions and like it or not, billions of people practice them; and you cannot ignore facts even though Koran recognises only Christianity and Judaism. I don't think, Koran recognises Protestant Christians (it did not exist in 7th century).
Now if you were Christian, then your comment is confusing. Because, Christians don't oppose Jews having their own state; Even Pope is not opposed to that (I think, Pope visited Jerusalem not too long ago).
It is preferable that you worry about your own religion; let others worry about their own.
I am an atheist. To me, the word 'prophet' is meaningless; does that mean, I cannot live in any state; or that the people who believe in prophethood can live in any state; guess what, Buddhists have no prophet, either; and neither do Hindus.
You write "How could illegal Jewsih state be honored while it reject the Prophethood of Jesus(p)?".
Wait a minute. I thought you are a muslim. Now why do muslims have to worry about what Jews think of Jesus? Are musims the keepers of every religion? I don't think so. After all, muslims don't care about Hindusism, Budhhism, Animism, Pagans, polythiests, etc; they are valid religions and like it or not, billions of people practice them; and you cannot ignore facts even though Koran recognises only Christianity and Judaism. I don't think, Koran recognises Protestant Christians (it did not exist in 7th century).
Now if you were Christian, then your comment is confusing. Because, Christians don't oppose Jews having their own state; Even Pope is not opposed to that (I think, Pope visited Jerusalem not too long ago).
It is preferable that you worry about your own religion; let others worry about their own.
I am an atheist. To me, the word 'prophet' is meaningless; does that mean, I cannot live in any state; or that the people who believe in prophethood can live in any state; guess what, Buddhists have no prophet, either; and neither do Hindus.
()
UNCLE LOGIC FROM UK said:
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh!
What is with everybody!?!#
First of all it's not true they killed 300,000 in east Jerusalem, it is true that they kicked 300,000 Palestinians out but that's not the same.
Over the last 8 years, the Israelis have killed 5,000 Palestinians 1,000 and over the last 50 years the Israelis have killed 35,000 Palestinians and the Palestinians 15,000. The Israelis have the means to kill millions but they don't.
The things the Israelis do cannot possibly be called Genocide. Dr Edriss, are you really a doctor? you sound misinformed enough to be a doctor from a country like Syria. If you are a doctor trained in a western country I sincerely hope it is not in a profession involving politics, if you are I suggest you go back to university AND STUDY A LITTLE HARDER THIS TIME!!!! You say: "angloSaxon in misquoting the Torah instead of the bible to justify their barbarism..." and yet, many Muslim leaders and solders use the Hadith to justify their actions instead of the Koran, NON MORE SO THAN THE PALESTINIANS!!
The article tries to portray the Israelis arrogant ignorant and foolhardy and yet these descriptions fit the Hamas much better. I think Israelis often being prejudice to Muslims and Palestinians often being prejudice to Jews is inevitable, however the prejudice the Hamas show is light years beyond reason, they are calling for the annihilation of Jews, had a war with Jordan which cost 7,000-8,000 lives have squabbled got into fights with and even killed Fatah rivals, insisted on boycotting Denmark because of one newspaper, brain washed children and can be held responsible for much of the political, economic, militant, educational and diplomatic failures in Palestine and have been strongly linked to and increase in terrorist activities as well as arms and drug smuggling in Egypt. The Hamas are the Neo Nazis not the Israelis. And I've so still got loads more to say Doc and if you are reading this I would really love to hear your counter ar
What is with everybody!?!#
First of all it's not true they killed 300,000 in east Jerusalem, it is true that they kicked 300,000 Palestinians out but that's not the same.
Over the last 8 years, the Israelis have killed 5,000 Palestinians 1,000 and over the last 50 years the Israelis have killed 35,000 Palestinians and the Palestinians 15,000. The Israelis have the means to kill millions but they don't.
The things the Israelis do cannot possibly be called Genocide. Dr Edriss, are you really a doctor? you sound misinformed enough to be a doctor from a country like Syria. If you are a doctor trained in a western country I sincerely hope it is not in a profession involving politics, if you are I suggest you go back to university AND STUDY A LITTLE HARDER THIS TIME!!!! You say: "angloSaxon in misquoting the Torah instead of the bible to justify their barbarism..." and yet, many Muslim leaders and solders use the Hadith to justify their actions instead of the Koran, NON MORE SO THAN THE PALESTINIANS!!
The article tries to portray the Israelis arrogant ignorant and foolhardy and yet these descriptions fit the Hamas much better. I think Israelis often being prejudice to Muslims and Palestinians often being prejudice to Jews is inevitable, however the prejudice the Hamas show is light years beyond reason, they are calling for the annihilation of Jews, had a war with Jordan which cost 7,000-8,000 lives have squabbled got into fights with and even killed Fatah rivals, insisted on boycotting Denmark because of one newspaper, brain washed children and can be held responsible for much of the political, economic, militant, educational and diplomatic failures in Palestine and have been strongly linked to and increase in terrorist activities as well as arms and drug smuggling in Egypt. The Hamas are the Neo Nazis not the Israelis. And I've so still got loads more to say Doc and if you are reading this I would really love to hear your counter ar
()
AZEEZ FROM US said:
In response to Brother Romesh Chander. I would say the bottom line of this crisis Israel cannot live or have a state in the middle east. Israel is like a virus that spreads to the body and its destroys the intestines. How could illegal Jewsih state be honored while it reject the Prophethood of Jesus(p)?. The problem now is not about weither Palestine refuses isreal right to exist or not it's isreal arrongant and obstinate rebellion against God and His Messangers that's leading isreal to destruction. Never will the Jews live amicably with the Muslims or Arab for they have been cursed by the tongue of David and Jesus the son of Mary. Now they wanna claim he Land that they once rejected. How dare them? well I guess you stuy prophesis very well.
()
NORMAN SCHULTZ FROM USA said:
Biblical Christianity will be spread for the defense of the west, the world, and Israel.
()
TASNEEM FROM USA said:
YOU CANNOT TEACH PEACE OR TALK ABOUT PEACE..IF YOU
DONT PRACTICE YOURSELF...EVERYTHING BEGINS WITH YOU
FIRST....I AM TALKING TO ALL MUSLIMS AND JEWS
DONT PRACTICE YOURSELF...EVERYTHING BEGINS WITH YOU
FIRST....I AM TALKING TO ALL MUSLIMS AND JEWS
()
A.N. FROM US said:
Coexisted peacefully is really subjective! One could also phrase it as "living oppressed for so long that they forgot how to fight back". Dhimmitude is not coexisting peacefully.
()
KHANNA FROM NORWAY said:
America has lost the war in Iraq. The invasion of Iraq by Britain and the US has trebled the price of oil, according to a leading expert, costing the world a staggering $6 trillion in higher energy prices alone.
The oil economist Dr Mamdouh Salameh, who advises both the World Bank and the UN Industrial Development Organisation (Unido), told The Independent on Sunday that the price of oil would now be no more than $40 a barrel, less than a third of the record $135 a barrel reached last week, if it had not been for the Iraq war.
Khanna
The oil economist Dr Mamdouh Salameh, who advises both the World Bank and the UN Industrial Development Organisation (Unido), told The Independent on Sunday that the price of oil would now be no more than $40 a barrel, less than a third of the record $135 a barrel reached last week, if it had not been for the Iraq war.
Khanna
()
NIZAM FROM INDIA said:
I only pray to Allah, The Almighty to bring justice to palestanian, if they truely deserve it. None else can help the helpless. insallah, it will happen soon. There will come a time when these jews will find not a single helper in the whole world and I am certain that they are heading in that direction. The demise of israel is inevitable but their demise will also be accompanied by the destruction of US. Now when and how will that happen, only Allah knows. I hope to live till that day so that I can pray two raka. As far as, islamicity concerned, it seems to me that it is also following a course of all other islamic countries, namely to appeaseing the west and their supporters. I am sorry to say that but I have noticed that when some comments which support blindly the injustices of israel or us or europe, islamicity is eager to post, but if it is otherwise, editor simply do not find it suitable for posting. I say also GOOD LUCK to our brothers like one of the post.
()
TOM FROM FRANCE said:
Romesh, don't forget the real tigers. Iran. Try it. Iraq is not eliminated. America is in trouble. These Muslims have destroyed all the superpowers, Romans, Persians, Soviets in Afghanistan, now Americans in Iraq, oh' Spanish empire too.
Tom
Tom
()
AJAM FROM FRANCE said:
Romesh Chander, I had in agreement with many of your comments in the past. Unfortunately not this one. First, Jimmy Carter visited Hammas not long ago and got their approval of coexistence. Israel has rejected it. Really, you need to vist the area.
Second, had not for the Othamans, Jewish people would have become extinction by the turn of the several centuries ago. Co-existence is the necesssity of Israel not Arabs. If you don't beleive, then read the intellectual articles of Jewish leaders. They are ringing the bells. Have peace with Arabs while we are powerful, otherwise every Arab child is reading the history. It is only a matter of time before the wheels turn over. Crusaders behaved the same way.
I am a firm beleiver of co-existence. Jewish people must understand that their existence is attached to the existence of Muslims. 800 years in Spain and 600 years under Othaman. We need to co-exist with respect and honour. Muslims can come back without the help of American dollars, not Jewish people. How long are they going to dance on American Dollars.
By the way, Romesh, why don't you buy the CD or the book written by Stephen Walt and John Mersheimer of University of Chicago and Harward. They also wrote a book "Israeli lobby and American Foreign Policy". Read those books please.
By the way, the sufferings of Palestanians are more to be blamed on Arabs than Israel since all the petrodollars are buried under the palaces. On the contrary, 30 trillion dollars of western economies is at the service of ISRAEL, the god.
Ajam
Second, had not for the Othamans, Jewish people would have become extinction by the turn of the several centuries ago. Co-existence is the necesssity of Israel not Arabs. If you don't beleive, then read the intellectual articles of Jewish leaders. They are ringing the bells. Have peace with Arabs while we are powerful, otherwise every Arab child is reading the history. It is only a matter of time before the wheels turn over. Crusaders behaved the same way.
I am a firm beleiver of co-existence. Jewish people must understand that their existence is attached to the existence of Muslims. 800 years in Spain and 600 years under Othaman. We need to co-exist with respect and honour. Muslims can come back without the help of American dollars, not Jewish people. How long are they going to dance on American Dollars.
By the way, Romesh, why don't you buy the CD or the book written by Stephen Walt and John Mersheimer of University of Chicago and Harward. They also wrote a book "Israeli lobby and American Foreign Policy". Read those books please.
By the way, the sufferings of Palestanians are more to be blamed on Arabs than Israel since all the petrodollars are buried under the palaces. On the contrary, 30 trillion dollars of western economies is at the service of ISRAEL, the god.
Ajam
()
DR EDRISS FROM US said:
British and US, Aussie or Canada... supported this myth called Israel because it is something that they can always hide behind and avoid being attacked as anglosaxons and daves for destroying weak civilizations to establish their empires.
there is no biblical root to Israel.
in the history of the anglosaxons: whenever they want to support their genocides of others, they link that to some weak interpretations of the bible.
this people who invaded palestine have no link to Israel. they are linked to the mentality of the anglosaxons in missquoting the Torah instead of the bible to justify their barbarism...
God never promised any land to anybody from 20 century(most of the people fail to see that)! God is not a joke like, the people who believe myths present it. if God promise any people something, He will, with no doubt, fullfill His promise.
He is the All Almighty not America and not British. God doesn't need US, British or France to deliever palestinian land to people collected from arround the world.
unless you believe that US and UK is your god and thier fake stories is His book, there is no way that you can link the existance of an Apartheid genociding native people in Palestine to any ancient text in this world.
the biggest myth in the history of mankind is:
Israel the land of meeting
who will meet who? think about God making a land for me to meet you the reader? but we will not meet in the reality!!! after 4000 years from now, someone will meet someone and claim that God fullfilled our meeting in their meeting...!
is this not the Bigeest myth in the world!!!???
unfortunatly, with a world full of materialistic people, they obey the new law of the jungle where the power converted to dollars:
WE WILL LIE TO OURSELVES IF WE CLAIM THERE IS A SOLUTION TO WHAT IS HAPPENING IN PALESTINE.
British and US, Aussie or Canada... supported this myth called Israel because it is something that they can always hide behind and avoid being attacked as anglosaxons and daves for destroying weak civilizations to establish their empires.
there is no biblical root to Israel.
in the history of the anglosaxons: whenever they want to support their genocides of others, they link that to some weak interpretations of the bible.
this people who invaded palestine have no link to Israel. they are linked to the mentality of the anglosaxons in missquoting the Torah instead of the bible to justify their barbarism...
God never promised any land to anybody from 20 century(most of the people fail to see that)! God is not a joke like, the people who believe myths present it. if God promise any people something, He will, with no doubt, fullfill His promise.
He is the All Almighty not America and not British. God doesn't need US, British or France to deliever palestinian land to people collected from arround the world.
unless you believe that US and UK is your god and thier fake stories is His book, there is no way that you can link the existance of an Apartheid genociding native people in Palestine to any ancient text in this world.
the biggest myth in the history of mankind is:
Israel the land of meeting
who will meet who? think about God making a land for me to meet you the reader? but we will not meet in the reality!!! after 4000 years from now, someone will meet someone and claim that God fullfilled our meeting in their meeting...!
is this not the Bigeest myth in the world!!!???
unfortunatly, with a world full of materialistic people, they obey the new law of the jungle where the power converted to dollars:
WE WILL LIE TO OURSELVES IF WE CLAIM THERE IS A SOLUTION TO WHAT IS HAPPENING IN PALESTINE.
()
ROMESH CHANDER FROM USA said:
Coexistence not Apartheid!! Good catchy slogan.
Let us look at the history. Since late 1900's when Ottomans were in power and all the way to 1948 when British left, Palestinians never tried to let Jews coexist with them. After Zionist victory, with 3 wars by Arabs, and 2 intifadas, palestinians still refuse to coexist with the Jews. So what do you expect? Love and flowers!. Apartheid may be harsh and inhumane solution, but that may be the only viable one (sorry, I have not vistied Palestine/Israel to try to figure out a better solution).
PLO may have accepted the existence of Israel, but PLO is not in power; It is Hamas who is in power. And Hamas charter refuses to recognize the existence of Israel. Even Yasser Arafat's recognition of Israel's existence was lukewarm and tactical and not trustworthy.
If palestinians & Arabs living in US had started intifada, they would have found out how the situation americans handle -- there would have been no Apartheid here; rather there would have total elimination, just like the natives were eliminated. You are lucky, Jews have not adopted the american version. And if the Palestinians keep it up, they might adopt that solution some day. First they need to eliminate their neighbours. Egypt signed the Peace treaty; and so did Jordan. Iraq is eliminated as an adversary. Syria will probably sign a treaty in a few years. Then Lebanon will have no choice but to calm down. Presto, Palestinians will have nobody to depend upon for any kind of aid (finaincial, military, arms, political, etc). EU might even stop all the aid, too; they are tired of supporting Arabs and trying to find a way out.
Palestinians cannot convince anybody except Islamic fundamentalists of Saudi Arabia and Egypt. Even UN does not care for UN resolutions.
I say, good luck.
Let us look at the history. Since late 1900's when Ottomans were in power and all the way to 1948 when British left, Palestinians never tried to let Jews coexist with them. After Zionist victory, with 3 wars by Arabs, and 2 intifadas, palestinians still refuse to coexist with the Jews. So what do you expect? Love and flowers!. Apartheid may be harsh and inhumane solution, but that may be the only viable one (sorry, I have not vistied Palestine/Israel to try to figure out a better solution).
PLO may have accepted the existence of Israel, but PLO is not in power; It is Hamas who is in power. And Hamas charter refuses to recognize the existence of Israel. Even Yasser Arafat's recognition of Israel's existence was lukewarm and tactical and not trustworthy.
If palestinians & Arabs living in US had started intifada, they would have found out how the situation americans handle -- there would have been no Apartheid here; rather there would have total elimination, just like the natives were eliminated. You are lucky, Jews have not adopted the american version. And if the Palestinians keep it up, they might adopt that solution some day. First they need to eliminate their neighbours. Egypt signed the Peace treaty; and so did Jordan. Iraq is eliminated as an adversary. Syria will probably sign a treaty in a few years. Then Lebanon will have no choice but to calm down. Presto, Palestinians will have nobody to depend upon for any kind of aid (finaincial, military, arms, political, etc). EU might even stop all the aid, too; they are tired of supporting Arabs and trying to find a way out.
Palestinians cannot convince anybody except Islamic fundamentalists of Saudi Arabia and Egypt. Even UN does not care for UN resolutions.
I say, good luck.
()
