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Sorry to say that I started to hate islam

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Topic: Sorry to say that I started to hate islam
Posted By: bharatiya
Subject: Sorry to say that I started to hate islam
Date Posted: 02 May 2005 at 9:04am
I was just reading the biography of mohammed.( http://www.islamic-paths.org/Home/English/Muhammad/Book/Biography/Chapter_25.htm - here )

I thought that mohammed was a good man.  You all people say,"peace be upon him"... its a farce.  I agree that mohammed himself did not kill anyone.  But muslims killed many in the name of islam.  Why didn't he ask them not to kill?  People have just criticised him.  They did not harm him in anyway.  But they were killed.  muslims killed an old man.  A women when she was sleeping was stabbed to death.  I agree that the man was blind.  But whats in it.  Can't a blind man kill?  What wrong has she done?  She only criticised.  She did nothing except that. 

he married so many women.  Even his daughter-in-law.  You people go on defence saying that he used to enjoy life, he wanted children blah blah blah...

Killing is a muslim's monopoly.  'jihad' LOL, a sadist's refuge for killing.

I am sorry for you people...

I have started hating islam...

I may be a kafir, its better than to be a muslim.

(to the admins, if you want you can ban me, you have a unique way to suppress your criticisers)


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THE SOIL OF BHARAT IS MY HIGHEST HEAVEN, THE GOOD OF BHARAT IS MY GOOD.



Replies:
Posted By: haja
Date Posted: 02 May 2005 at 10:30am
deaf dumb and blind can not understand the truth.
any how our duty is to convey the message of God who created the heaven , earth and you .
please ask simple question
our brothers will answer one by one

truth seeking soul will find the answer by thinking  about the universe .
if you are atrue hindu
you must read the source of your religion.
for the sake of harmony living side by side with muslim indiam amicably find out common platform between muslims and hindus

on the concept of God
both hinduism and islam will accept the truth that our God is one
i can give quotations from authentic VEDAS.
but you did nt touched those scriptures i think.

my suggestion is please read ur scriptures you will find what had been told in the past was distorted by some so called saits.

seek truth
you will not hate natural religion.

truth stand out clear from falshood
falshood is bound to perish
sathyameva jayathe


-------------
with peace
haja
00919842111420


Posted By: Suleyman
Date Posted: 02 May 2005 at 1:18pm
bharatiya,so wrong...you hate from the persons between u and Allah;you hate from the things in your mind between u and Allah causing wrong comments not giving u perception...please don't choose before pushing them from your mind and seeing the sky....


Posted By: Alwardah
Date Posted: 02 May 2005 at 1:42pm
 

Dear Bharatija, Hatred is so wrong, so evil � look around you despite the negativity about Islam and the Muslims in the media, it is the fastest growing religion in the world. Why?? Maybe this article will help you understand the life of our Prophet Muhammad (Sallallahu 'Alayhi wa Sallam)

 
Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him): A model for humanity
Author: By Professor M. Rafi 

IN contemporary times, people in general and Muslims in particular need to emulate Prophyet Muhammad s (peace be upon him) humane and practical approach to life. He showed that Islam is not a theoretical philosophy. He preached and practiced a code of life, its commandments and prohibitions, and rendered good actions and service to mankind in all spheres of human activity.

Within a short span of time, he had successfully ushered in an era of tolerance and liberalism and had revitalized a decadent social order. He was able to mold the character of his fellowmen, reform them and change their thoughts, put new ideals before them and elevate them to the higher plane of a better, harmonious life. Subsequently, the Muslim Ummah, not based on relations of blood, race, color or class, came into being through sheer adherence to permanent divine values.

He never compelled anyone to become a Muslim. Through his exemplary behavior people were drawn to him. He lived for 40 years among the people before inviting them to Islam. It was quite difficult for them to accept a human being like them as a nabi. He would plainly say that he was but a man like others and that he had no treasures, nor did he claim to know the secrets of the future. The Qur an testifies to this: Say (O Muhammad, peace be upon him) I am only a man like you . . . (18:110).

The Prophet (peace be upon him) always showed composure and balance while confronting the tribulations of life. The insistent demand of the people that he should work miracles to convince them made him despondent. He changed the attitudes and characters of people through his behavior. They were astonished to see his reaction toward the people of Taif who had been very unkind to him. He did not curse anyone, but prayed may Allah guide the people of Taif.

Following the setback at Uhud, the companions asked him to curse the people of Makkah. He said, I was not sent to curse people. I was sent as a caller to the truth and as a mercy to the people.

Edward Gibbon (Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire) writes, Even at the zenith of his worldly power the good sense of Muhammad [peace be upon him] despised the pomp and royalty he submitted to the menial offices of the family, he kindled the fire, swept the floor, milked the ewes and mended with his own hands his shoes and his woolen garments. He observed the abstemious diet of an Arab and a soldier.

How many of us claiming to be his followers practice these? His life was very simple. He would put on whatever kind of cloth he could get. He would eat whatever was placed before him. He would sit wherever he could find room, whether on a mat, carpet or the floor. He was a model family man, very loving to the children.

As a role model we must remember that he taught us to obey Allah s commands, give alms, speak the truth, to give back safe and whole what is entrusted to us by others, to be affectionate to our neighbors, to shun wicked acts and to avoid bloody quarrels.

To the Christians of Najran and the adjoining areas he promised the security of God and his own pledge. No cross or image shall be destroyed, they shall not be oppressed, they shall not be required to furnish provisions for the troops were his standing orders.

Contrary to some modern-day notions, he disliked wars and when he migrated to Madina, he brought an end to the tribal wars which had been rampant for more than a century. He invited the followers of all faiths and advised them to unite and establish a city-state to forge a common defense and security against all adversaries. Surprisingly, his advice was readily accepted even by the tribes of Aws and Khazraj.

The Meethaq of Madinah (charter) is the first constitution of the world. Today, as the world s population is increasing and the number of people adhering to different faiths continues to grow, this document should be widely propagated. It abolishes all forms of priestly and clergy rule. Following this ideal, the Islamic commonwealth included within its fold Jews, Sabians, Christians and others as citizens like the Muslims. They were accorded religious, social and political rights through this charter.

One of his sayings shows his respect for all religions. When the bier of anyone passes by thee, Muslim or non-Muslim, rise to thy feet. As a result of his teachings which laid the foundation of human rights and values, Muslim communities all over the world, even as far as China, India, Japan, Africa and the West, show that Islam still has the power to reconcile apparently irreconcilable elements of race and tradition. If Muslims truly follow his teachings in all aspects of social life, the opposition between eastern and western societies can be replaced with cooperation.

Islam upholds the dignity of labor and Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) himself worked along with others in the construction of the first mosque at Quba and in digging during the Battle of Trench. He emancipated slaves and women from bondage. The slaves were placed on an equal footing with their masters and they were elevated to the rank of generals and commanders. Bilal (Allah be pleased with him) was appointed the first muezzin of Islam and was respectfully addressed as Syedna (our master) Bilal. Women were given the right of divorce and inheritance in the property of their deceased husbands and fathers.

The Prophet (peace be upon him) was successful in bringing into existence a new type of man self-respecting, self-reliant, conscious of his worth and desirous of enhancing it with the ambition to set up a better social order in the world. Jeffery Lang in his book Struggling to Surrender writes: To swear that Muhammad is the messenger of God is to accept his life as an example and to affirm that his actions set the standard for mankind s conduct regardless of time and place. If Muslims are to convince Western civilization that Islam provides a better way, then they would have to either soften their commitment to Mohammad s example or invest their time and effort to argue their case convincingly.

A model which can serve as a standard for every class of people under different circumstances and states of human emotions will be found in the life of Muhammad (peace be upon him). For the rich there is his example as a tradesman; for the poor is his example as an internee of Shiab Abi Talib and the emigre of Madina. For the vassal, there is the man who endured the hardships imposed by the Quraish of Makkah; for the conqueror there is the victor of Badr and Hunayn. In defeat, one can take a lesson from the discomfort at Uhud. As a teacher, one can learn from the holy mentor of the school of Suffah; as a student from the man who sat before Gabriel.

Whenever anyone came, he moved quickly to give him a seat. He was quick to smile and greet the person, and was never harsh or offensive, and rarely angry. He was generous in praise, averse to conflict or too much comfort. He always rose to the challenge of history.

Abdullah Ibn Ubaiyy withdrew one-third of the Muslim army in Uhud, but Muhammad (peace be upon him) did not seek vengeance. He said, We will have mercy and treat him kindly as long as he remains with us. Fadallah came with the intention of killing him and felt nervous when Muhammad (peace be upon him) met him with calm and a smiling face. Muhammad (peace be upon him) advised him kindly to seek God s forgiveness and Fadallah lived the rest of his life saying, I came to kill him and left with no man more beloved and dear to me.

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) laid the greatest emphasis on human rights and tolerance. He made his followers realize the importance of observation and knowledge, and was able to divert man s attention to the vast and limitless universe and find the clue to God s greatness. He disclosed a concept of life compatible with nature. Through his lifetime of struggle and exemplary behavior he emphasized that the Qur an was not a collection of dogmas, but a code of life which regulated everything that involved human life. He never preached what he could not be practiced. His last words were not about property, dominance or kingdom, but the protection of the weak and downtrodden. Today Muslims all over the world are in a miserable situation. This is because they have failed to live up to the ideals set forth by Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).

Dawn. Karachi 29 April 2005.



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�Verily your Lord is quick in punishment; yet He is indeed Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful (Surah Al-An�am 6:165)
"Indeed, we belong to Allah and to Him is our return" (Surah Baqarah 2: 155)


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 02 May 2005 at 5:42pm
A Kafir better than a Muslim. HA! That doesnt make any sence! Don't be so quick to make your desicions in life. In death eavan the infedals will believe in the faith of islam when he/she are surrounded be the angels of death, but it will not be counted. The infedals grave will squeeze them very hard, angels will hit you with giant hammers, the infedals will have clothing of fire and snakes and scorpions will bite the infedal until judgment day. so you make the desicion.


Posted By: bharatiya
Date Posted: 02 May 2005 at 9:19pm
Brother haja,

Originally posted by haja haja wrote:


if you are atrue hindu
you must read the source of your religion.
for the sake of harmony living side by side with muslim indiam amicably find out common platform between muslims and hindus


I had been quoting our scriptures.

Quote on the concept of God
both hinduism and islam will accept the truth that our God is one
i can give quotations from authentic VEDAS.


I had been saying this for a long time, but most of my fellow members think that quran is the only good book...

Quote but you did nt touched those scriptures i think. my suggestion is please read ur scriptures you will find what had been told in the past was distorted by some so called saits.


I have had my education

You are right that our holy scriptures are misquoted.

Quote seek truth
you will not hate natural religion.

truth stand out clear from falshood
falshood is bound to perish
sathyameva jayathe


Yes, sathyameva jayathe...


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THE SOIL OF BHARAT IS MY HIGHEST HEAVEN, THE GOOD OF BHARAT IS MY GOOD.


Posted By: MOCKBA
Date Posted: 02 May 2005 at 11:35pm

Bharathiya,

mind my observation, but it seems to me that you have started hating Islaam long before you entered this forum and began waving the flag of "peace" showering everyone with petals of "love" only to hide your fangs... looking back at your postings, you were only warming up to unleash your "points" pretending to have so much love for other religions... as i mentioned to you in one of my earlier responses, Islaam does not need to be watered down in order to make it pleasing to you and people like you... there is no pretense, there are no tricks, there is no fake there is no marketing strategy to attract masses and amass material benefit.  



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MOCKBA


Posted By: bharatiya
Date Posted: 03 May 2005 at 1:05am
Originally posted by MOCKBA MOCKBA wrote:

Bharathiya,

mind my observation, but it seems to me that you have started hating Islaam long before you entered this forum and began waving the flag of "peace" showering everyone with petals of "love" only to hide your fangs... looking back at your postings, you were only warming up to unleash your "points" pretending to have so much love for other religions... as i mentioned to you in one of my earlier responses, Islaam does not need to be watered down in order to make it pleasing to you and people like you... there is no pretense, there are no tricks, there is no fake there is no marketing strategy to attract masses and amass material benefit.  



I would have hated a Muslim(I pointed out many times) but never Islam.  I even quoted what my ancestors said about Islam.  Thats the reason I am here and to know whether Muslims have a similar opinion.

I was reading about the controvery over history in Indian text books.  Scholars were saying that religious killing should not be taught as history as it may pervert the young minds.

In that they were saying that 'hindu' massacre, killing of Jews by the followers of the Prophet etc. should not be kept in the text books.

I wondered whether Muslims were against Jews from Islam's inception and I found it to be true.

Well Mockba... There is no pretense in any religion or is their any marketing strategy involved.

You are damn right.  I am a RAW agent here to sabotage this forum.

I am the most dangerous man  out there in the forum

And if you can hate 'hinduism', why can't I hate islam?

Its better to be a kafir than to be a muslim.


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THE SOIL OF BHARAT IS MY HIGHEST HEAVEN, THE GOOD OF BHARAT IS MY GOOD.


Posted By: bharatiya
Date Posted: 03 May 2005 at 1:09am
Originally posted by Suleyman Suleyman wrote:

bharatiya,so wrong...you hate from the persons between u and Allah;you hate from the things in your mind between u and Allah causing wrong comments not giving u perception...please don't choose before pushing them from your mind and seeing the sky....


So deep that I am unable to understand(after all I am a kafir).


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THE SOIL OF BHARAT IS MY HIGHEST HEAVEN, THE GOOD OF BHARAT IS MY GOOD.


Posted By: bharatiya
Date Posted: 03 May 2005 at 1:11am
Originally posted by Jameel_LeemaJ Jameel_LeemaJ wrote:

A Kafir better than a Muslim. HA! That doesnt make any sence! Don't be so quick to make your desicions in life. In death eavan the infedals will believe in the faith of islam when he/she are surrounded be the angels of death, but it will not be counted. The infedals grave will squeeze them very hard, angels will hit you with giant hammers, the infedals will have clothing of fire and snakes and scorpions will bite the infedal until judgment day. so you make the desicion.


Quran says that if one does not follow it, then they are kafirs.  I do not follow quran.  So I am a kafir.  And above all I am a 'hindu' aren't 'hindus'(who are killing so many muslims in Kashmir) and Jews(killing muslims) kafirs?


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THE SOIL OF BHARAT IS MY HIGHEST HEAVEN, THE GOOD OF BHARAT IS MY GOOD.


Posted By: bharatiya
Date Posted: 03 May 2005 at 1:12am
Thanks Alwardah!!!

Explanation is better than criticism...

But Alwardah... only Prophet seems to be a good Muslim... Most Muslims are against everything which is non-muslim.


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THE SOIL OF BHARAT IS MY HIGHEST HEAVEN, THE GOOD OF BHARAT IS MY GOOD.


Posted By: Alwardah
Date Posted: 03 May 2005 at 6:05am

Hi Bharathija

 

Are u really seeking the truth? Then look no further. You are located in India, so go seek out Dr. Zakir Naik who is well versed in the Hindu scriptures. He will soon sort you out. On the boards all we will have is a to and fro discussion. Go and meet the doctor face to face, he will answer all your questions. Yes it is very easy to criticize each other over the media, but come face to face it is a different story.

 

Maybe you don't stay in Mumbai, but far away, even so it will be worth ur while if you are really seeking the truth.

 

His website is http://www.irf.net - www.irf.net

 

Take a hard look at the world around you who are the victims. ?????????

 

Need I add more,

Originally posted by bharatiya bharatiya wrote:

But Alwardah... only Prophet seems to be a good Muslim... Most Muslims are against everything which is non-muslim.

I don't think you really know Muslims to make such a statement.

 

"And I shall not worship that which you are worshipping, nor will you worship that which I worship, to you be your religion and to me my religion." (Surah Al-Kafirun 109:4-6)



-------------
�Verily your Lord is quick in punishment; yet He is indeed Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful (Surah Al-An�am 6:165)
"Indeed, we belong to Allah and to Him is our return" (Surah Baqarah 2: 155)


Posted By: bharatiya
Date Posted: 03 May 2005 at 8:20am
Originally posted by bharatiya bharatiya wrote:

Originally posted by MOCKBA MOCKBA wrote:

Bharathiya,

mind my observation, but it seems to me that you have started hating Islaam long before you entered this forum and began waving the flag of "peace" showering everyone with petals of "love" only to hide your fangs... looking back at your postings, you were only warming up to unleash your "points" pretending to have so much love for other religions... as i mentioned to you in one of my earlier responses, Islaam does not need to be watered down in order to make it pleasing to you and people like you... there is no pretense, there are no tricks, there is no fake there is no marketing strategy to attract masses and amass material benefit.  



I would have hated a Muslim(I pointed out many times) but never Islam.  I even quoted what my ancestors said about Islam.  Thats the reason I am here and to know whether Muslims have a similar opinion.

My hatred stems from my interaction with the society and the world.   I know how great Islam is and I find that Quran is as much misinterpreted as any scripture.  Thats why many Muslims say that Islam is the only true religion and only Muslims are fit for Salvation. 

QURAN SAYS THAT A BELIEVER IS FIT FOR SALVATION.   ALLAH IS JUST A WORD MY FRIENDS.  WHAT MATTERS IS THE BELIEF IN GOD.

I was reading about the controvery over history in Indian text books.  Scholars were saying that religious killing should not be taught as history as it may pervert the young minds.

In that they were saying that 'hindu' massacre, killing of Jews by the followers of the Prophet etc. should not be kept in the text books.

I wondered whether Muslims were against Jews from Islam's inception and I found it to be true.

Well Mockba... There is no pretense in any religion or is their any marketing strategy involved.

You are damn right.  I am a RAW agent here to sabotage this forum.

I am the most dangerous man  out there in the forum

And if you can hate 'hinduism', why can't I hate islam?

Its better to be a kafir than to be a muslim.


-------------
THE SOIL OF BHARAT IS MY HIGHEST HEAVEN, THE GOOD OF BHARAT IS MY GOOD.


Posted By: Mustafaa
Date Posted: 03 May 2005 at 8:23am

It's interesting that moderators have still not acted against this poor fool misinterpreting and insulting our Prophet (peace be upon him) in the most dreadful way.



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There is no deity but Allah. Muhammad is the (last) Messenger of Allah.


Posted By: haja
Date Posted: 03 May 2005 at 10:59am
from www.irf.net
page1

COMPARATIVE STUDY BETWEEN ISLAM AND HINDUISM

 

PRESENTING ISLAM TO HINDUS

Arabic Recitation (3:64)

I.       Introduction

A.       Introduction of Hinduism

1.       Definition of a Hindu

The word Hindu has geographical significance and was used originally for those people who lived beyond the river Sindhu or the region watered by the river Indus. Some historians say that it was first used by the Persians who came to India through the north western passes of the Himalayas. The word Hindu is no where mentioned in Indian literature or scriptures before the advent of Muslims to India, according to the Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics. According to Jawaharlal Nehru in the book Discovery of India on page 74-75, he writes that the earliest reference to the word Hindu can be traced to a tantrik of the 8th Century CE, where it means a people and not a follower of a particular religion. The use of the word Hindu in connection with a particular religion is of late occurrence.

In short Hindu is a geographical definition used for the people living beyond the river Indus or those living in India

2.       Definition of Hinduism

a)   Hinduism has been derived from the word Hindu. Hinduism was a name given in English language in the Nineteenth Century by the English people to the multiplicity of the beliefs and faith of the people of the Indus land. According to New Encyclopedia Britannica 20:581. The British writers in 1830 gave the word Hinduism to be used as the common name for all the beliefs of the people of India excluding the Muslims and converted Christians.

b)   The term Hinduism is misleading because though it suggests the unified system of beliefs and ideas, it is certainly not the case. Hinduism is too broad a phenomenon to be confined to a usual definitions of religions. It does not owe its origin, formation or finalization to any historical person or a prophet since there is no uniformly accepted belief sacraments, rituals and practices in Hinduism, there are no criteria for establishing rules in Hinduism. In short a person who calls himself a Hindu becomes a true practicing Hindu irrespective who he worships and what ever may be his beliefs and practice.

c)   According to the Hindu scholars Hinduism is a misnomer and it should be referred a Sanatana Dharma, meaning eternal religion or Vedic Dharma meaning religion of the Veda. According to Swami Vivekananda the followers of this religion is referred as Vedantist.

B.       Introduction of Islam

1.       Definition of Islam

Islam is an Arabic word which comes from the word �Salaam� which means �Peace�. It also means submitting your will to Allah - the Almighty God. In short Islam means peace acquired by submitting your will to Allah (SWT).

2.       Definition of a Muslim

A Muslim is a person who submits his will to Allah - the Almighty God.

3.       Misconception about Islam

Many people have a misconception that Islam is a new religion which came into existence 1400 years ago and Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is the founder of the religion of Islam. Infact Islam is there since time immemorial, since man set foot on the earth. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is not the founder of the religion of Islam but he is the last and final messenger of Islam.



-------------
with peace
haja
00919842111420


Posted By: haja
Date Posted: 03 May 2005 at 11:02am

II. Pillars of Faith (Imaan) - Pillars of Hinduism

Pillars of Faith in Hinduism are not defined. As mentioned earlier that Hinduism does not have a set of unified or codified beliefs. Neither does it have any fixed pillars or principles which are obligatory for its followers to practice. A Hindu has a freedom to practice whatever he pleases, there is no such thing as compulsory or prohibited for him thus no act committed by a person can make him a non-Hindu. Neither omission of any act can make him a non-Hindu. However there are certain beliefs which are common to most of the Hindus. Even though it may not be agreed upon 100% by all the Hindus, we shall discuss some of them while discussing the pillars of Islam.

 

CONCEPT OF GOD IN HINDUISM

 

The most popular amongst the Aryan religion is Hinduism

1.      Common concept of God in Hinduism:

If you ask a common Hindu that how many Gods he believe in, some may say three some may say thirty three, some may say a thousand while some may say thirty three crore i.e. 330 millions. But if you ask this question to a Hindu learned man who is well Versed with the Hindu scriptures, he will reply that the Hindu should actually believe and worship only one God.

2.      Difference between Islam and Hinduism is �s�

(Everything is �God�s� - everything is �God�):

The major difference between the Hindu and the Muslim is that the common Hindu believes in philosophy of Pantheism i.e. everything is God, the tree is God, the sun is God, the moon is God, the snake is God, the monkey is God, the human being is God.

The Muslims believe that everything is God�s. God with and apostrophe �s�. Everything belongs to God, the tree belongs to God, the sun belongs to God, the moon belongs to God, monkey belongs to God, the human being belongs to God.

Thus the major difference between the Hindus and the Muslims is the apostrophe �s�. The Hindu says everything is God. The Muslim says everything is God�s, God with an apostrophe �s�. If we can solve the difference of the apostrophe �s�, the Hindus and the Muslims will be united.

The Holy Qur�an says, �Come to common terms as between us and you�, which is the first term? �That we worship none but Allah�, so lets come to common terms by analyzing the scripture of the Hindus and the Muslim.

3.      Bhagwad Geeta 7:20

The most popular amongst all the Hindu scriptures is the Bhagwad Geeta. Bhagwad Geeta mentions in Chapter 7, Verse 20, �Those whose intelligence has been stolen by material desires worship demigods� that is �Those who are materialistic, they worship demigods� i.e. besides the true God.

4.      Upanishad

Upanishad are also one of the sacred scriptures of the Hindus.

(i) Chandogya Upanishad, Chapter 6, Section 2, Verse 1

It is mentioned in the Chandogya Upanishad, Prapathaka(Chapter) 6, Khanda(Section)2, Shloka(Verse) �Ekam evaditiyam�, �He is one only without a second�.

The principal Upanishad by S. Radhakrishnan, page 447 and 448(sacred books of the east Volume 1 the Upanishads, part I, page 93)

a)   (ii) Similar to what is mentioned in the Holy Qur�an in Surah Ikhlas, Chapter 112, Verse 1, �Say he is Allah one and only�.

b)    (i) Svetasvatara Upanishad, Chapter 6, Verse 9

It is mentioned in the Svetasvatara Upanishad, Adhyaya(Chapter) 6, Shloka(Verse) 9, �Na casya kascij janita na cadhipah� �Of him there is neither parents nor lord�.

na tasya kascit patir asti loke, na cesita naiva ca tasya lingam, na karanam karanadhipadhipo na casya kascij janita na cadhipah�.

�Of him there is no master in the world, no ruler, nor is there any mark of him. He is the cause, the lord of the lords of the sense organs; of him there is neither progenitor nor lord�.

(The principal Upanishad by S. Radhakrishnan page 745 and in sacred books of the east Volume 15, the Upanishads, part II, page 263)

 (ii) Similar message is given in Holy Qur�an in Surah Ikhlas, Chapter 112, Verse 3,

�He begets not, nor is he begotten�.

(i) In Svetasvatara Upanishad, Chapter 4, Verse 19

It is mentioned in Svetasvatara Upanishad, Adhyaya(Chapter) 4, Shloka(Verse) 19,

Na tasya pratima asti� �There is no likeness of him�.

nainam urdhvam na tiryancam na madhye na parijagrabhat na tasya pratima asti yasya nama mahad yasah� �There is no likeness of him whose name is great glory�.

(The principal Upanishad by S. Radhakrishnan page 736 & 737 and in sacred books of the east Volume 15, the Upanishad, part II, page 253)

c)       (ii) Similar message is given in the Holy Qur�an in Surah Ikhlas, Chapter 112, Verse 4,

�And there is none like unto him�.

c)  (iii) Surah Shura, Chapter 42, Verse 11 and also in Surah Shura, Chapter 42, Verse 11,

�There is nothing whatever like unto him�.

d)       (i) In Svetasvatara Upanishad, Chapter 4, Verse 20

It is mentioned in Svetasvatara Upanishad, Adhyaya(Chapter) 4, Shloka(Verse) 20,

na samdrse tishati rupam asya, na caksusa pasyati kas canainam� �his form cannot be seen, no one sees him with the eye�

nasamdrse tishati rupam asya, na caksusa pasyati kas canainam. Hrda hrdistham manasa ya enam, evam vidur amrtas te bhavanti

�His form is not to be seen; no one sees him with the eye. Those who through heart and mind know him as abiding in the heart become immortal�.

(The principal Upanishad by S. Radhakrishnan page 737 & in sacred books of the east Volume 15, the Upanishad part II, page 253)

e)       (ii) Similar message is given in the Holy Qur�an in Surah Anam, Chapter 6, Verse 103,

�No vision can grasp him. But his grasp is over all vision: he is above all comprehension, yet is acquainted with all things�.

5.  Yajurveda

     Vedas are the most sacred amongst all the Hindu scriptures, there are principally 4 Vedas, Rigved, Yajurved, Samved and Atharvaved.

a) Yajurveda, Chapter 32, Verse 3

     It is mentioned in Yajurved, Chapter 32, Verse 3

     na tasya pratima asti� �There is no image of Him�

      It further says as �He is unborn, He deserves our worship�

�There is no image of him whose glory verily is great. He sustains within himself all luminous objects like the sun etc. may he not harm me, this is my prayer. As he is unborn, he deserves our worship�.

      (The Yajurveda by Devi Chand M.A. page 377)

b) Yajurveda, Chapter 40, Verse 8 

      It is mentioned in Yajurved, Chapter 40, Verse 8, �He is body less and pure�

�He hath attained unto the bright, bodiless, woundless, sinewless, the pure which evil hath not pierced. Far-sighted wise, encompassing, he self existent hath prescribed aims as propriety demands unto the everlasting years�

      (Yajurveda Samhita by Ralph I.H. Griffith page 538)

c) Yajurveda, Chapter 40, Verse 9 

     It is mentioned in Yajurved, Chapter 40, Verse 9

     Andhatma pravishanti ye asambhuti mupaste

     �They enter darkness, those who worship natural things� For e.g. air, water, fire etc.

It further continues and says, �They sink deeper in darkness those who worship Sambhuti i.e. created things�, For example table, chair, idol etc.

�Deep into shade of blinding gloom fall asambhuti�s worshippers. They sink to darkness deeper yet who on sambhuti are intent�

(Yajurveda Samhita by Ralph T.H. Griffith page 538)

6.   Atharvaveda

a) (i) Atharvaveda, Book 20, Hymn (Chapter) 58, Verse 3

      It is mentioned in Atharvaveda, Book 20, Hymn (Chapter) 58, Verse 3

      Dev maha osi� �God is verily great�

      �Verily, surya, thou art great; truly, aditya, thou art great. As thou art great indeed thy greatness is admired: yea, verily, great art thou, O God�

      (Atharvaveda Samhiti Volume 2, William Dwight Whitney page 910)

a) (ii)  Surah Rad, Chapter 13, Verse 9     

      A similar message is given in Qur�an Surah Rad, Chapter 13, Verse 9,

      �He is the Great, the most High.�

7.      Rigveda

      The most oldest and sacred amongst all the Vedas is Rigveda.

a)   Rigveda, Book No.1, Hymn No. 164, Verse 46

      It is mentioned in Rigveda Book no.1, Hymn no.164 Verse 46                               

      �Sages (learned Priest) call one God by many names�

�They have styled (Him, God or the sun) indra (the resplendent), mitra (the surveyor), varuna (the venerable), agni (the adorable), and he is the celestial, well-winged garutmat (the great), for learned priests call one by many names as they speak of the adorable as yama (ordainer) and matarisvan (cosmic breath)�.

b) (i) Rigveda, Book 2, Hymn 1      

Rigveda gives no less than 33 different attributes to Almighty God several of these attributes are mentioned in Rigveda, Book 2, Hymn 1

b) (ii) Brahma - Creator - Khaliq, Rigveda Book 2, Hymn 1, Verse 3       

Amongst the various attributes given in Rigveda one of the beautiful attributes for Almighty God is �Brahma�. �Brahma� means �the creator�. If you translate into Arabic it means �Khaliq�. We Muslims have got no objection if you call Almighty God a �Khaliq� or �Creator� or �Brahma� but if someone says that �Brahma� is Almighty God who has got 4 heads and on each head is a crown and he has got 4 hands. We Muslims take strong except to it because you are giving an image to Almighty God. Moreover you are going against Yajurveda, Chapter 32, Verse 3, which says,

Na tasya pratima asti� ��There is no image of him�

b) (iii) Vishnu - Sustainer - Rabb: Rigveda, Book II, Hymn 1, Verse 3

Another beautiful attribute mentioned in the Rigveda, Book II, Hymn 1, Verse 3, is Vishnu, �Vishnu� means �the Sustainer�. If you translate into Arabic it means �Rabb�, we Muslims have no objection if anyone call Almighty God as �Rabb� or �Sustainer� or �Vishnu� but if someone says Vishnu is Almighty God who has got 4 arms. One of the right arm holding the �Chakra� i.e. a discus and one of the left arms holding a �Conch shell� and he is riding on a bird or reclining on a snake couch. We Muslims take strong exception to this, because you are giving an image to Almighty God. Moreover you are going against Yajurveda, Chapter 40, Verse 8.

c)   Rigveda, Book 8, Hymn 1, Verse 1      

      It is mentioned in Rigveda, Book 8, Hymn 1, Verse 1

      Ma Chidanyadia Shansata

      �Do not worship anybody but Him, the divine one Praise Him alone�

Ma cid anyad vi sansata sakhayo ma rishanyata in dram it stota vrishanam saca sute muhaur uktha ca sansata�.

�O friends, do not worship anybody but Him, the divine one. Let no grief perturb you.  Praise Him alone, the radiant, the showerer of benefits. During the course of self-realization, go on repeatedly uttering Hymns in His honour�.

(Rigveda Samhiti, Volume IX, page 1 and 2 by Swami Satyaprakash Sarasvati and Satyakam Vidhya Lankar)

d) (i) Rigveda, Book 5, Hymn 81, Verse 1   

      It is mentioned in Rigveda, Book 5, Hymn 81, Verse 1,

�Verily great is the glory of the divine creator�

(Rigveda Samhiti, Volume 6, page 1802 and 1803 by Swami Satya Prakash Saraswati and Satyakam Vidhyalanka)

d) (ii)  Surah Fateha, Chapter 1, Verse 2

      Similar message is given in the Holy Qur�an In Surah Fateha, Chapter 1, Verse 2,

      �Praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds�.      

e) (i)   Rigveda, Book 3, Hymn 34, Verse 1 

It is mentioned in Rigveda, Book 3, Hymn 34, Verse 1

�The bounteous giver�

(Hymns of Rigveda, Volume 2, page 377, by Ralph T.H. Griffith)

e) (ii)  Surah Fateha, Chapter 1, Verse 3

       Same as Surah Fateha, Chapter 1, Verse 3,  �Most Gracious, most merciful�       

f) (i) Yajurveda, Chapter 40, Verse 160    

       It is mentioned in Yajurveda, Chapter 40, Verse 16

       �Lead us to the good path and remove the sin that makes us stray and wonder�

�By goodly path lead us to riches, Agni, thou God who knowest all our works and wisdom. Remove the sin that makes us astray and wander: most ample adoration will we bring thee�

        (The Yajurveda Samhiti by Ralph T.H Griffith Page 541)

f) (ii) Surah Fateha, Chapter 1, Verse 6 and 7     

      Similar message is given in       Surah Fateha, Chapter 1, Verse 6 and 7

�Show us the straight way, the way of those on whom thou has bestowed thy grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath. And who go not astray�.

 

g)     Rigveda, Book No VI, Hymn 45, Verse 16

  It is mentioned in Rigveda, Book VI, Hymn 45, Verse 16

  Ya eka ittamushtuhi

  �Praize Him who is the matchless and alone.�

  (Hymns of Rigveda by Ralph T.H. Griffith page 648)

8.   Brahma Sutra of Hindu Vedanta

The Brahma Sutra of Hindu Vedanta is:

Ekam Brahm, dvitiya naste nen na naste kinchan

Bhagwan ek hi hai dusara nahi hai, nahi hain nahi hai zara bhi nahi hai.�

�There is only one God, not the second, not at all, not in the least bit.�

Therefore only if you read the Hindu Scripture will you understand the correct concept of God in Hinduism.



-------------
with peace
haja
00919842111420


Posted By: haja
Date Posted: 03 May 2005 at 11:08am
DEAR BROTHER BHARATHIYA
IF YOU ARE SERIOUS IN STUDYING ISLAM VISIT WWW.IRF.NET
YOU WILL FIND REMAINING PART OF THIS TOPIC.

TRY TO ASK SIMPLE QUESTIONS FROM VARIOUS TOPICS LISTED BELOW

1. JIHAD AN TERRORISM
2.  CONCEPT OF GOD IN MAJOR RELIGION
3. IS NON VEGETARIAN FOOD PROHIBITED FOR HUMAN BEING?
AND MANY MORE


-------------
with peace
haja
00919842111420


Posted By: haja
Date Posted: 03 May 2005 at 11:11am
DEAR BROTHER BHARATHIYA
IF YOU ARE SERIOUS IN STUDYING ISLAM VISIT WWW.IRF.NET
YOU WILL FIND REMAINING PART OF THIS TOPIC.

TRY TO ASK SIMPLE QUESTIONS FROM VARIOUS TOPICS LISTED BELOW

1. JIHAD AND TERRORISM
2.  CONCEPT OF GOD IN MAJOR RELIGIONS
3. IS NON VEGETARIAN FOOD PROHIBITED FOR HUMAN BEING?
AND MANY MORE

-------------
with peace
haja
00919842111420


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 03 May 2005 at 12:17pm
You said it yourself those who don't folow the qu'ran is a kafir, you admitted being a kafir, BUT if you dont follow the qu'ran that means you wouldnt think your kafir, so actually you do follow the qu'ran  i guess you have a little muslim in you you just need to embrace it


Posted By: Suleyman
Date Posted: 03 May 2005 at 12:22pm

Originally posted by Jameel_LeemaJ Jameel_LeemaJ wrote:

You said it yourself those who don't folow the qu'ran is a kafir, you admitted being a kafir, BUT if you dont follow the qu'ran that means you wouldnt think your kafir, so actually you do follow the qu'ran  i guess you have a little muslim in you you just need to embrace it

  ,so nice...



Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 03 May 2005 at 12:30pm
Also, you said to me, arent hindus and jews kafirs, kafirs are not based on a certain religion its how you act. In the signs of judgment day the good people of other religions will fight alongside the muslims against evil, other religions are the people of allah to.


Posted By: Nausheen
Date Posted: 03 May 2005 at 2:05pm

Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir rajeem,

Bismillah ir rahman ir rahim,

 

Bhartiya and others,

Please remember to stay within the rules of this forum. Some ppl have posted outside the topic and this is not acceptable.

Please be careful when u challenge the concepts of any religion. If your challenges are disrespectful, these will result in censor.

Note that 'kafir' is a word we decided not to use in our conversations. So those who did not know pls make amendments.

Peace,

Nausheen 



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<font color=purple>Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa

Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena

wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.
[/COLOR]


Posted By: bharatiya
Date Posted: 03 May 2005 at 9:47pm
Originally posted by Alwardah Alwardah wrote:



Hi Bharathija

 

Are u really seeking the truth?



What truth are you talking about?  I am an Indian buddy and a so called 'hindu'.

Quote Then look no further. You are located in India, so go seek out Dr. Zakir Naik who is well versed in the Hindu scriptures.He will soon sort you out.



Buddy, I have already posted a post refuting Zakir, titled "Refutation of Dr.Zakir Naik".
Quote Go and meet the doctor face to face, he will answer all your questions.


Zakir's only aim is to prove that Islam is the only true religion.  But I don't want to criticize Zakir on everything.  I have explained what I think is enough in "Refutation of Dr. Zakir Naik".

Quote

Take a hard look at the world around you who are the victims. ?????????



What do you mean?

Quote
Originally posted by bharatiya bharatiya wrote:

But Alwardah... only Prophet seems to be a good Muslim... Most Muslims are against everything which is non-muslim.


I don't think you really know Muslims to make such a statement.



I live in Hyderabad.  Isn't it enough?


My hatred stems from my interaction with the society and the world.   I know how great Islam is and I find that Quran is as much misinterpreted as any other scripture.  Thats why many Muslims say that Islam is the only true religion and only Muslims are fit for Salvation.

QURAN SAYS THAT A BELIEVER IS FIT FOR SALVATION.   ALLAH IS JUST A WORD.  WHAT MATTERS IS THE BELIEF IN GOD.


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THE SOIL OF BHARAT IS MY HIGHEST HEAVEN, THE GOOD OF BHARAT IS MY GOOD.


Posted By: bharatiya
Date Posted: 03 May 2005 at 9:52pm
Sorry Sister Nausheen,

I have written it so many times.  From now on I will never write it in this forum.

My hatred stems from my interaction with the society and the world.   I know how great Islam is and I find that Quran is as much misinterpreted as any other scripture.  Thats why many Muslims say that Islam is the only true religion and only Muslims are fit for Salvation.

QURAN SAYS THAT A BELIEVER IS FIT FOR SALVATION.   ALLAH IS JUST A WORD.  WHAT MATTERS IS THE BELIEF IN GOD.


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THE SOIL OF BHARAT IS MY HIGHEST HEAVEN, THE GOOD OF BHARAT IS MY GOOD.


Posted By: bharatiya
Date Posted: 03 May 2005 at 9:58pm
Haja Bhai!!!

You are too clever...

Originally posted by haja haja wrote:

Therefore only if you read the Hindu Scripture will you understand the correct concept of God in Hinduism.



The actual sentence written by Zakir is "Thus only a dispassionate study of Hindu scriptures can help you understand the correct concept of God in Hinduism."

As I have said Zakir's intention was to degrade other religions.

Anyway, I am a so called 'hindu' and I am proud to be one.

My hatred stems from my interaction with the society and the world.   I know how great Islam is and I find that Quran is as much misinterpreted as any other scripture.  Thats why many Muslims say that Islam is the only true religion and only Muslims are fit for Salvation.

QURAN SAYS THAT A BELIEVER IS FIT FOR SALVATION.   ALLAH IS JUST A WORD.  WHAT MATTERS IS THE BELIEF IN GOD.


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THE SOIL OF BHARAT IS MY HIGHEST HEAVEN, THE GOOD OF BHARAT IS MY GOOD.


Posted By: MOCKBA
Date Posted: 04 May 2005 at 1:25am

Originally posted by bharatiya bharatiya wrote:

[QUOTE=MOCKBA]
And if you can hate 'hinduism', why can't I hate islam?

Its better to be a kafir than to be a muslim.

You are free to do what you feel like but try to get rid of the habbit of deciding what others hate and don't. I am quite indifferent with regards to 'hinduism', i neither like it nor hate it... When you make conclusions they have to be based on something solid, so far you have not learned that.

 



-------------
MOCKBA


Posted By: Alwardah
Date Posted: 04 May 2005 at 3:45am

Bharathija

 

You said: Zakir's only aim is to prove that Islam is the only true religion.  But I don't want to criticize Zakir on everything.  I have explained what I think is enough in "Refutation of Dr. Zakir Naik".

 

Why post on the boards refuting what he says? Why don't you take him on � a challenge in public to prove your point, that Islam is not the only true religion? He is better qualified to answer your questions than anyone of us in this forum.

 

How far is Hyderabad from Mumbai? I am sure if you invited him to a challenge in Hyderabad he will surely oblige. He is so confident in what he believes and says, are you?

 

Look at ur statement to Haja: As I have said Zakir's intention was to degrade other religions

Did Dr Zakir ever degrade other religions, or you are now mind-reading his intention?

 

Hatred only breeds more hatred.

 

Have a nice day.



-------------
�Verily your Lord is quick in punishment; yet He is indeed Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful (Surah Al-An�am 6:165)
"Indeed, we belong to Allah and to Him is our return" (Surah Baqarah 2: 155)


Posted By: wasi siddiqui
Date Posted: 04 May 2005 at 4:11pm

bharatiya
your comment about Islam and Prophet Mohammad is quiet disturbing and just answer few of my question then you should not hate islam and Prophet Mohammad.

Question 1 : who is the one who created you ? How did u born ? can u tell me who is running this universe ?

Question 2 : Did u ever realized if you just stop breathing , who you will be facing ?

Question 3 : you said Prophet Mohammad never bother to stop the killings in the name of jihad , can u tell me what is the meaning of jihad ?

Question 4 : I being a muslim has no right to critisized hindu religion or any other religion but answer my question when a man like Pope John paul II has prayed to God for a long life , how come a monkey or cow can be a God ?

I repeat again I have just a question please don't be offended . My advance apologies for any comments .

If you find the answer get back to me here in this forum .

Allah may guide you in right direction.

 



Posted By: bharatiya
Date Posted: 04 May 2005 at 8:30pm
Originally posted by Alwardah Alwardah wrote:

Bharathija

 

You said: Zakir's only aim is to prove that Islam is the only true religion.  But I don't want to criticize Zakir on everything.  I have explained what I think is enough in "Refutation of Dr. Zakir Naik".

 

Why post on the boards refuting what he says? Why don't you take him on � a challenge in public to prove your point, that Islam is not the only true religion? He is better qualified to answer your questions than anyone of us in this forum.



Yes buddy, I am eagerly waiting to meet him.  I may be in Mumbai next month for my personal work.  Hope I could get an appointment.

 

Well, the Truth is all religions are equal.  Different religions are like different paths to the same destination.


The word 'dispassionate' itself tells us that Zakir has some ill feeling towards 'hinduism'.

Quote He is so confident in what he believes and says, are you?


Yes, I am lot more confident than him.  I dont know Quran at all.  But I know a lot of Bible and our own Philosophy.

 

Quote Look at ur statement to Haja: As I have said Zakir's intention was to degrade other religions

Did Dr Zakir ever degrade other religions, or you are now mind-reading his intention?


As I have said, the use of 'dispassionate' is enough.  And he calls everyone to be a Muslim.

Quote Hatred only breeds more hatred.


Well said.

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THE SOIL OF BHARAT IS MY HIGHEST HEAVEN, THE GOOD OF BHARAT IS MY GOOD.


Posted By: bharatiya
Date Posted: 05 May 2005 at 3:24am
Originally posted by MOCKBA MOCKBA wrote:

Originally posted by bharatiya bharatiya wrote:

[QUOTE=MOCKBA]
And if you can hate 'hinduism', why can't I hate islam?

Its better to be a kafir than to be a muslim.

You are free to do what you feel like but try to get rid of the habbit of deciding what others hate and don't. I am quite indifferent with regards to 'hinduism', i neither like it nor hate it... When you make conclusions they have to be based on something solid, so far you have not learned that.

 



Dear MOCKBA,

Thanx for giving me freedom.  But I am from a free country, so I need not be freed from anything.

You have as much freedom as I have


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THE SOIL OF BHARAT IS MY HIGHEST HEAVEN, THE GOOD OF BHARAT IS MY GOOD.


Posted By: bharatiya
Date Posted: 05 May 2005 at 4:19am
Dear Wasi,

Originally posted by wasi siddiqui wasi siddiqui wrote:


bharatiya
your comment about Islam and Prophet Mohammad is quiet disturbing and just answer few of my question then you should not hate islam and Prophet Mohammad.


I am really sorry that I hurt your sentiments.  I didn't mean any such thing.  I just posted what I thought at that moment.

Aha.  Here we go.  At last.  The basics of every religion.

Myself being a student of Philosophy at JNU, I am really interested to answer these questions.

But I can't guarantee you that you can understand them.  Its really hard to understand our Philosophy.

But I want to know one thing, what are the attributes of Allah.  I mean, are we all and Allah different.  Or do we seem to be different but we are all one?  What is the position of Allah vis a vis the Universe.

According to our Philosophy, the sum total of all is Brahman.  God is not separate from us or vice versa.  Brahman is the sense and the sense organ.  Brahman is the beautiful, Brahman is the ugly.  Brahman is the good, Brahman is the bad.  Brahman is the word, Brahman is the grammar.

We say that Brahman is the "Sathyam, Gnanam, Anantham",  roughly translated "Existence, Consciousness, Infinity".  They are not three separate entities.  The sum of the three is Brahman.  And Life has the Consciousness part.  Thats why we are able to ask "who is God?" or any other question.

If you say that Allah is different from which is in this world, then you are considering Dualism.  And if you are considering that Allah is separate from Nature and us, then you are considering Special Monism.

Well, without you understanding this, I can move no further and answer your questions.

If you have any questions,  please feel free to ask me.

Peace and Love.


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THE SOIL OF BHARAT IS MY HIGHEST HEAVEN, THE GOOD OF BHARAT IS MY GOOD.


Posted By: MOCKBA
Date Posted: 05 May 2005 at 4:21am

Originally posted by bharatiya bharatiya wrote:

Originally posted by MOCKBA MOCKBA wrote:

[QUOTE=bharatiya] [QUOTE=MOCKBA]
And if you can hate 'hinduism', why can't I hate islam?

Its better to be a kafir than to be a muslim.

You are free to do what you feel like but try to get rid of the habbit of deciding what others hate and don't. I am quite indifferent with regards to 'hinduism', i neither like it nor hate it... When you make conclusions they have to be based on something solid, so far you have not learned that.

 


bharatiya,

Somehow, if you noticed, i am not in a position to distribute freedoms... therefore you need not thank me for something i could not do, though appreciate your cortliness.

The concept of freedom is vague. I, without doubt, consider myself free but must admit that taking into consideration some weaknesses that i have as a human, i also, at times, excercise restraint. There similarly exist certain rules of conduct that i chose to abide by, and which in view of some, like yourself, may mean limitations to one's freedom.

Am i free to abstain from taking a bath for a year - may be yes, but those very rules of conduct istruct me not to and that instruction prevails leaving me pretty much happier and healthier in the end. I conclude that i have as much freedom as anyone else, however i prefer to reserve some... for a good cause.

  



-------------
MOCKBA


Posted By: bharatiya
Date Posted: 05 May 2005 at 8:16am
Originally posted by MOCKBA MOCKBA wrote:

Originally posted by bharatiya bharatiya wrote:

Originally posted by MOCKBA MOCKBA wrote:

[QUOTE=bharatiya] [QUOTE=MOCKBA]
And if you can hate 'hinduism', why can't I hate islam?

Its better to be a kafir than to be a muslim.

You are free to do what you feel like but try to get rid of the habbit of deciding what others hate and don't. I am quite indifferent with regards to 'hinduism', i neither like it nor hate it... When you make conclusions they have to be based on something solid, so far you have not learned that.

 


bharatiya,

Somehow, if you noticed, i am not in a position to distribute freedoms... therefore you need not thank me for something i could not do, though appreciate your cortliness.

The concept of freedom is vague. I, without doubt, consider myself free but must admit that taking into consideration some weaknesses that i have as a human, i also, at times, excercise restraint. There similarly exist certain rules of conduct that i chose to abide by, and which in view of some, like yourself, may mean limitations to one's freedom.

Am i free to abstain from taking a bath for a year - may be yes, but those very rules of conduct istruct me not to and that instruction prevails leaving me pretty much happier and healthier in the end. I conclude that i have as much freedom as anyone else, however i prefer to reserve some... for a good cause.

  



Jus' kidding buddy...


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THE SOIL OF BHARAT IS MY HIGHEST HEAVEN, THE GOOD OF BHARAT IS MY GOOD.


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 05 May 2005 at 2:20pm

Lets just hope you make the right desicion in life. You seem to be very intelligent, so now just use some common sence. [May Allah be with you]



Posted By: bissmillah
Date Posted: 05 May 2005 at 8:20pm

good close  happy sailing to all thank you islam???



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john16:12-14 U have yet many things to say unto yuo,but Ye cannot bear them now....


Posted By: Sanjiv
Date Posted: 06 May 2005 at 9:45am

Bharatiya not such a good choice of words for your posting as mentioned before we shouldn't demote other religions as it only brings criticism on ones own religion. Hatred begot Hatred, peace for peace and tolerance for tolerance. This is pretty much a golden standard followed by any religion or atheists treat others as you would like to be treated so why can't religions do the same.

We shouldn't assume followers of other faiths to be this or that simply based on past atrocities or what some Holy Book says. Just look at the example led by most Muslims in this forum and you'll see a that they are a understanding and charasmatic bunch.

Don't mean to be too harsh. But you should approach the matter softly otherwise more often than not you will recieve a harsh responce although this is unsatisfactory too.

Anyways seems you have apologized so we will leave it at that. Peace Bharatiya.

 



Posted By: Shams Zaman
Date Posted: 06 May 2005 at 1:28pm

Answers to these questions are:-

(1)   Attributes of Allah are not anything physical. Like we say �Shams is angry� this does not imply that Shams is a different thing and anger is a different thing. Or �Shams is kind� this does not imply that my kindness and my personality are different. Or once we say that Oxygen is a gas or water is a liquid. So does this mean that gas and oxygen and water and liquid are two different things? No it�s the property of a particular thing which has no physical differentiation. So these 99 (known) attributes are not physical but are in simple words characteristics. So once the Arabs asked what is Allah? The reply came in Sura 112 of Quran, �1. Say: He, Allah, is One (Alone). 2. Allah is He on Whom all depend. 3. He begets not, nor is He begotten. 4. And there is nothing like Him.� Here the word used for One in Arabic is �AHAD� and not �WAHID�. There is a difference between Ahad and Wahid. Like I am a Wahid, means a single unit in my specie of humans. But Ahad is not like Wahid, Ahad means the �only and one� of which there is no thing even in resemblance what to talk of pair.

(2)   There is no concept in Islam that �we all are not separate from God.� Neither Islam holds a complex philosophy. Quran is in very simple terms and most things are mathematical means 2+2=4 or 4-4=0. Like the only way for salvation is to obey Allah. Allah will never forgive associating partners with Him but He may forgive any other sin other than that (this does not include the sins which we have committed with other humans or animals, like murder, rape, theft, etc. These can be forgiven by the individual alone against whom it has been committed.

(3)   This is the fault of Philosophy which holds you back from understanding simple things. Brother in Islam Allah is above all. The nature, this world, sky, earth, rotation, physical laws, life and death etc, etc, etc all has been created by Allah. He has the command over everything and he had created everything in pairs and groups. But He is Alone and only. Allah is not only different from this world but there is nothing even in resemblance with Him. He controls the nature, life, death and every single thing everywhere.

Shams Zaman   Pakistan  

 



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[email protected]


Posted By: Mukhlis
Date Posted: 16 May 2005 at 6:54am

To the administrators.

Salaam Alaikum, Brothers & Sisters.

I am a late comer to this topic but after reading the posts, I am just stunned. If a person says he is a non Muslim & hates Islam & makes most stupid statements out of crass ignorance - that should be enough to politely tell him that this is not a place for his ideas to air on open forum. He doesn't have to go to Dr. Naik. He can straight away go to hell. Muslims would lose nothing.

He has posted as an average more than 9 posts a day to become a senior member in four (?) months. I have read many of them. If he is studying phylosophy - he should be ashamed. He has no clue what is phylosophy, or thinking, or contemplation before opening one's mouth all the time Kaain Kaain.  If he churns out at this rate, you know this member is a nuisance. He thinks he knows better than every one on every subject. Most of his posts are just tit-for-tat, nothing phylosophic. Two liners. Let him gather his thoughts and write 2 pages on any subject every time he wants to post a comment. That will disciplin him.

Some believing Mulsims have tried to educate him. I wouldn't bother though I have done a lot of thinking on concept of God, religions, their utility to human society & stuff like that. I have lived life in dozens of countries before this man breathed.  Brother Sanjiv has tried to mildly reprimand.

Why I want this madman's posts to be expunged is because his posts generate hatred & anger instead of promoting understanding between religions & nationalities. That is contrary to aims and objectives of Islamicity.

I lived most of my adult life among non Muslims. People so accomplished in their own fields to be called creme de la creme. I never had a problem with any. This student needs to see life yet. Let him get out of the egg shell first. Mean while put him in isolation ward from Islamicity.

Mukhlis

 

 

 

 

 



Posted By: MOCKBA
Date Posted: 16 May 2005 at 8:57am

Wa'alaikumu salaam brother Mukhlis,

May be with time and experience and accumulated wisdom we will be able to identify "time-wasters" quicker. Sometimes it is difficult, if possible at all, to see whether a person is truly seeking knowledge and answers to his questions... or is just posting tit-for-tat. It may be due to my absence, but i noticed that he has reduced his pace recently, and possibly takes more time reading. "Am I right Kumar/Bharatiya?"  Personally, i fully agree with your observations and comments, brother Mukhlis. And i also hope that Kumar takes lessons from your comments, too. More often visitors like these come and very soon exhaust themselves and go. Jazzak Allahu Khair.



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MOCKBA


Posted By: bharatiya
Date Posted: 16 May 2005 at 6:41pm
LOL...

First things first...  Its over ten days since I posted in this discussion,  I haven't replied anyone since then, I even wanted to delete this post.  But then why did I not ask any admin to delete this post?  Because there are a lot many people in the world who hate Islam and would learn something from this post.  And you can see the title of my post.  Its "islam" not "Islam".

And dear Muklis, if I posted so many posts, does not mean that I will be a nuisance, does it?  I had time, thats why I posted.  Thats all.

If you do not want me here, it just shows your intolerance.

I myself do not want to be here as I have found more number of posts against other religions than about goodness of Islam.

I feel even posting this is a waste of time.

I do not need your sympathy MOCKBA, and not need to ban me.

Truth shall triumph.

Have a nice time.

Peace and Love.


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THE SOIL OF BHARAT IS MY HIGHEST HEAVEN, THE GOOD OF BHARAT IS MY GOOD.


Posted By: MOCKBA
Date Posted: 16 May 2005 at 8:43pm

Originally posted by bharatiya bharatiya wrote:

LOL...

First things first...  Its over ten days since I posted in this discussion,  I haven't replied anyone since then, I even wanted to delete this post.  But then why did I not ask any admin to delete this post?  Because there are a lot many people in the world who hate Islam and would learn something from this post.  And you can see the title of my post.  Its "islam" not "Islam".

And dear Muklis, if I posted so many posts, does not mean that I will be a nuisance, does it?  I had time, thats why I posted.  Thats all.

If you do not want me here, it just shows your intolerance.

I myself do not want to be here as I have found more number of posts against other religions than about goodness of Islam.

I feel even posting this is a waste of time.

I do not need your sympathy MOCKBA, and not need to ban me.

Truth shall triumph.

Have a nice time.

Peace and Love.

you DONT have my sympathy... therefore please stop crying on my shoulder on the private messenger... as i have pointed to you earlier, you are very self-centered and most of your posts are about yourself and not even what you believe in...



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MOCKBA


Posted By: AhmadJoyia
Date Posted: 19 May 2005 at 10:35am
Originally posted by bharatiya bharatiya wrote:


Yes buddy, I am eagerly waiting to meet him.  I may be in Mumbai next month for my personal work.  Hope I could get an appointment.

Well, the Truth is all religions are equal.  Different religions are like different paths to the same destination.


The word 'dispassionate' itself tells us that Zakir has some ill feeling towards 'hinduism'.

I think the dictionary meanings to dispassionate means "without any passion" i.e. to say without any baisness or preoccupation of one's own beliefs. This is, I think, the most honest advise to muslims to read and know about Hinduism and same goes to the hindus themselves. Where is the hatred? How do you pick just one word out of his whole article and that too totally wrong. I think you need a little more time to grow and then reflect your true academic strength. Till then, its better to listen and read more about Islam, especially from Quran, than feeling it from the attitudes of muslims around you.

Quote


Yes, I am lot more confident than him.  I dont know Quran at all.  But I know a lot of Bible and our own Philosophy.

This is another classical example for your need to grow up. Your confidence based upon your ignorance about Quran!!! What a statment. Are you suggesting discussing Bible with Dr. Zakir?? What a proposition????

Originally posted by bharatiya bharatiya wrote:

 

Quote Look at ur statement to Haja: As I have said Zakir's intention was to degrade other religions

Did Dr Zakir ever degrade other religions, or you are now mind-reading his intention?


As I have said, the use of 'dispassionate' is enough.  And he calls everyone to be a Muslim.

 

O yeah, is this your scholarly approach? Is this the way you read 'dispassionate' from your dictionary (If you have one)? Kindly consult your english teacher if you are having troubles with this language, after all you may have to pass the exams as well.




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