Antony-Islah wrote: i do not speak Arabic so please excuse my inquisitiveness, i am open to your opinions.

Note: This could be just a copyist error, and not an error in the original.

But, either way, I am open to all corrections ... just as long as they are corrections.

damaninchrist wrote: Yes, I can see one obvious grammar error in the following ... sura 3.45 http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/arabicscript/3_9/3_45-48.htm - http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/ara..._9/3_45-48.htm Here, let me elaborate for the Arabic speaking people Iz kalati lmala2ikatou ya maryamou inna llaha youbasshirouki bikalimatin minhou smouhou lmasee7ou 3eesa bnou maryama wajeehan fee ddonya wal2akhirati wa mina lmoukarrabeena Notice the bolded part hou is erroneously a masculine pronoun when it should be feminine since it's referring to "kalima" which is feminine not masculine. Oh, and no cheap replies, like "the Quran can never have grammar mistakes" because, unlike you, I don't assume that the Quran is perfect and that the Quran is exactly the same as the original. So spare me such replies, and just refute my point. It is clearly a grammar mistake (probably a copyist error). Do you agree or not?

Salaamu Alaykum Wa Rahmatulaahi wa Barakatuhu,

No.  You're just wrong.  Do you like Bush too?  Why do you go around wasting your time slinging false accusations like this?  Are you like a two year old who thinks he knows everything when he doesn't? 

The grammar is correct.  The "Ismoohoo" refers to Prophet Issa, may Allah Listen to him, his name, and he are masculine.

How silly of you to use something that you are completely wrong in to attack Islaam.  You need to take up crochet and send socks to earthquake victims and leave the grammar to experts, or even people as simple as me who know that your attack is foolish.

herjihad wrote: Salaamu Alaykum Wa Rahmatulaahi wa Barakatuhu, No.  You're just wrong.  Do you like Bush too?  Why do you go around wasting your time slinging false accusations like this?  Are you like a two year old who thinks he knows everything when he doesn't?  The grammar is correct.  The "Ismoohoo" refers to Prophet Issa, may Allah Listen to him, his name, and he are masculine. How silly of you to use something that you are completely wrong in to attack Islaam.  You need to take up crochet and send socks to earthquake victims and leave the grammar to experts, or even people as simple as me who know that your attack is foolish.

The hou refers to Kalima, you "expert".

And Kalima is a feminine term.

In Arabic grammar, the gender of the pronoun is determined by the gender of the term that it refers to and not the gender of the person or object described by the term.

But anyhow, it's expected from some people to insult, since they can't refute.

Sign*Reader wrote: damaninchrist wrote: herjihad wrote: Salaamu Alaykum Wa Rahmatulaahi wa Barakatuhu, No.  You're just wrong.  Do you like Bush too?  Why do you go around wasting your time slinging false accusations like this?  Are you like a two year old who thinks he knows everything when he doesn't?  The grammar is correct.  The "Ismoohoo" refers to Prophet Issa, may Allah Listen to him, his name, and he are masculine. How silly of you to use something that you are completely wrong in to attack Islaam.  You need to take up crochet and send socks to earthquake victims and leave the grammar to experts, or even people as simple as me who know that your attack is foolish. The hou refers to Kalima, you "expert". And Kalima is a feminine term. In Arabic grammar, the gender of the pronoun is determined by the gender of the term that it refers to and not the gender of the person or object described by the term.   But anyhow, it's expected from some people to insult, since they can't refute. Sister Let this troll get a life some where else, ignore this troll whos name has another built in name, which is more appropriate, I would say

What's the matter? Can't answer my question?

damaninchrist wrote: Sign*Reader wrote: damaninchrist wrote: herjihad wrote: Salaamu Alaykum Wa Rahmatulaahi wa Barakatuhu, No.  You're just wrong.  Do you like Bush too?  Why do you go around wasting your time slinging false accusations like this?  Are you like a two year old who thinks he knows everything when he doesn't?  The grammar is correct.  The "Ismoohoo" refers to Prophet Issa, may Allah Listen to him, his name, and he are masculine. How silly of you to use something that you are completely wrong in to attack Islaam.  You need to take up crochet and send socks to earthquake victims and leave the grammar to experts, or even people as simple as me who know that your attack is foolish. The hou refers to Kalima, you "expert". And Kalima is a feminine term. In Arabic grammar, the gender of the pronoun is determined by the gender of the term that it refers to and not the gender of the person or object described by the term.   But anyhow, it's expected from some people to insult, since they can't refute. Sister Let this troll get a life some where else, ignore this troll whos name has another built in name, which is more appropriate, I would say   What's the matter? Can't answer my question?

I think your question "agree or not agree" was answered, it was a 'no'

air_one wrote: Are you arabic? If not, do you have a firm grip on the arabic language?

Yes

If you answered yes to both these questions then wait for someone who has a good knowledge of arabic to answer your question. If no one answers still please go and ask a scholar of islam or an arab. And to answer your question about this question....i cant answer your question.

Ok, I'll be waiting. Thanks for your politeness. The Lord bless you.

I think your question "agree or not agree" was answered, it was a 'no'

Hehe, good one!

damaninchrist wrote: Yes, I can see one obvious grammar error in the following ... sura 3.45 http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/arabicscript/3_9/3_45-48.htm - http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/ara..._9/3_45-48.htm Here, let me elaborate for the Arabic speaking people Iz kalati lmala2ikatou ya maryamou inna llaha youbasshirouki bikalimatin minhou smouhou lmasee7ou 3eesa bnou maryama wajeehan fee ddonya wal2akhirati wa mina lmoukarrabeena Notice the bolded part hou is erroneously a masculine pronoun when it should be feminine since it's referring to "kalima" which is feminine not masculine. Oh, and no cheap replies, like "the Quran can never have grammar mistakes" because, unlike you, I don't assume that the Quran is perfect and that the Quran is exactly the same as the original. So spare me such replies, and just refute my point. It is clearly a grammar mistake (probably a copyist error). Do you agree or not?

When you are engaged in an interfaith dialogue, you don't make up your mind this way and use terms such as "clearly a grammar mistake" etc. This is not appropriate way to have meaningful discussion. What if you just say, " I want to clarify this misunderstanding about so and so".

Hope you would receive appropriate response to your concern.

Peace

Bismillah irrahman irrahim

Iz kalati-lmalaikatou ya maryamou inna-llaha youbasshirouki bikalimatin minhou,

Im sure that as you claimed you know arabic and its grammatical chages, i wonder how you missed that this sentence has a pause here, then start again with

ismouhou-lmaseehou eesa-bnou maryama

Now if you read the ayah in arabic you will see a sukun on the letter Laa of almaseehou and in arabic language if you have a sukun on the word in the start it means you join it with with the word before if there is no break of phrase, So if you join two words together ismouhou-lmaseehou then it means HIS name will be Masih so what about the error?

again a break

wajeehan fee ddonya wal2akhirati wa mina lmoukarrabeena

Hope this explains things for you this time but there is a manner of seeking the knowledge and truth, hope you care to observe that next time

fatima wrote: Bismillah irrahman irrahim Iz kalati-lmalaikatou ya maryamou inna-llaha youbasshirouki bikalimatin minhou, Im sure that as you claimed you know arabic and its grammatical chages, i wonder how you missed that this sentence has a pause here, then start again with ismouhou-lmaseehou eesa-bnou maryama Now if you read the ayah in arabic you will see a sukun on the letter Laa of almaseehou and in arabic language if you have a sukun on the word in the start it means you join it with with the word before if there is no break of phrase, So if you join two words together ismouhou-lmaseehou then it means HIS name will be Masih so what about the error?

How come you put a break before "ismouhou" when there's also a sukun on "ismou"?

"minhou" is connected to "ismouhou", correct?

So why did you force a break?

Bismillah irrahman irrahim

and you say you know arabic? Anyway translate the ayah for me, will you?

fatima wrote: Bismillah irrahman irrahim and you say you know arabic?

Yes.

Anyway translate the ayah for me, will you?

Ok ...

The angels said: "O Mary, Allah blesses you with good news with a word from Him, whose name is the Messiah Isa, son of Mary, outstanding in this world and the afterlife and one of the closest."

Apple Pie, oops, I mean Damanchrist,

From you: "Here, let me elaborate for the Arabic speaking people"

Elaborating for the Arabic-speaking people?   

Let me first edit your numerics within the translation of the verse!

"Iz kalatil-malaikato 'ya maryamo innal-laha yobash-shirokay bikalimatin minho-smohul-maseeho ee-sab-no maryama', wajeehan feed-dunya walakhirati wa minal-mukar-rabeena................."

Ismohu means whose name was or whose name is or whose name will be, simply his name.

The verse is not discussing the gender of the word or kalima.

"Innallaha yobashshirokay baykalimatum-minho" does NOT really mean "Surely God gives you the good news of a word from Him". That is the word-to-word translation. The nessage to Maryam simply means "O' Maryam, God gives you the good news of a son". That is all to that.

From you: "Notice the bolded part

hou is erroneously a masculine pronoun  when it should be feminine  since it's referring to "kalima" which is  feminine not masculine."

If Jesus, essabno maryama were a girl, it would not have been ismo-hu. Since Jesus was Mary's male child, we cannot say that her name was Jesus, the son of Mary.   

From you: "Oh, and no cheap replies, like "the Quran can never have grammar mistakes" because, unlike you, I don't assume that the Quran is perfect and that the Quran is exactly the same as the original. So spare me such replies, and just refute my point."

I am sure you would consider this scholarly reply proper in response to your cheap comments!  

Good Night from Singapore.

BMZ

Hey,

Can you post this one for me at carm.org?  They will love this!

To the Administrator,

Salaam Alaikum and I have miraculously lost my "editing power".  can you restore that please?

What is the use of blunt scissors?

Best Regards

BMZ

Bismillahirrahmaanerraheem

I dont think I quited understand what you mean bzmsp.

 'Eesa (Jesus) is the Word of Allah. He was created by Allah's Word, Allah said "Be" and he was, meaning that he was born miraculously.

The Bible also calls him "the Word of God" in the book of revelation, chapter 19.

Sawtul Khilafah,

I can't describe the beauty of the language of Qur'aan in the Meccan Arabic dialect.

Firstly, I was responding to the nonsensical post. Secondly I explained very clearly what the verse meant in real Arabic.

When God Almighty says "be" that is a Command of God and it is done! We use "kun, faya-kun" and the Bible describes it as "God said, 'let there be....". The word Kalimah is in that verse of Qur'aan.

The "word" belongs to all Semitic languages, Hebrew, Aramaic and Arabic and people made God out of it!  Adam was a word too, so was Abraham, so was Ismaeel, so was Issac, so was Judah (not one of my favourites)  and so was John (Yahya). It was the thought by God to create those people.

It's too late in the night now and good night from my side.

Salaams

BMZ

Cyril wrote: There is apparently no break between "bikalimatin minhu" and "smuhu l-mas�Hu". The article "al" of mas�H looses its hamza with its "a" sound because of the "u" from smuhu. It is shown in the Arabic script by the waSlah (=liaison) on top of the alif. The same happens between the "u" of minhu and smu which has lost its initial hamza and "i" because of the "u" of hu. Again it is shown by a waSlah on top of the alif of ism. It could be "bikalimatin minhu smuh� l-mas�H". But as the Quran says smuhu so the pronoun must refer to the masculine name around which is al-mas�H. I don't think it is a mistake. The choice was between smuh� refering to al-kalimah or smuhu refering to al-mas�H. It is the second option which is written. Strangely enough there is a similar "error" in the Arabic Gospel of John (1:1) where it says: "fil-bad'i k�na (instead of k�nati) l-kalimatu".

If we want to talk grammar, pronouns like "hou" and "ha" don't refer to terms after them.

You are basically saying that "ismou l masee7ou houwa l masee7ou" instead of "ismou l kalima houwa l masee7ou". Which statement makes sense?

And about the Bible in Arabic, I never claimed it's perfect in Arabic.

bmzsp wrote: Apple Pie, oops, I mean Damanchrist, From you: "Here, let me elaborate for the Arabic speaking people" Elaborating for the Arabic-speaking people?    Let me first edit your numerics within the translation of the verse! "Iz kalatil-malaikato 'ya maryamo innal-laha yobash-shirokay bikalimatin minho-smohul-maseeho ee-sab-no maryama', wajeehan feed-dunya walakhirati wa minal-mukar-rabeena................." Ismohu means whose name was or whose name is or whose name will be, simply his name. The verse is not discussing the gender of the word or kalima. "Innallaha yobashshirokay baykalimatum-minho" does NOT really mean "Surely God gives you the good news of a word from Him". That is the word-to-word translation. The nessage to Maryam simply means "O' Maryam, God gives you the good news of a son". That is all to that. From you: "Notice the bolded part hou is erroneously a masculine pronoun  when it should be feminine  since it's referring to "kalima" which is  feminine not masculine." If Jesus, essabno maryama were a girl, it would not have been ismo-hu. Since Jesus was Mary's male child, we cannot say that her name was Jesus, the son of Mary.    From you: "Oh, and no cheap replies, like "the Quran can never have grammar mistakes" because, unlike you, I don't assume that the Quran is perfect and that the Quran is exactly the same as the original. So spare me such replies, and just refute my point." I am sure you would consider this scholarly reply proper in response to your cheap comments!   Good Night from Singapore. BMZ

BMZ, I still remember testing your knowledge in Arabic grammar by asking you three simple questions ... you did not post since then!

Here's one question for you here:

Are you good at "i3rab"?

If so, do this one for me ...

Zahaba l waladou ila l madrasati

3reble kilmet "zahaba" then "waladou" then "madrasati"

Yalla ya shattour

bmzsp wrote: Apple Pie, oops, I mean Damanchrist, From you: "Here, let me elaborate for the Arabic speaking people" Elaborating for the Arabic-speaking people?    Let me first edit your numerics within the translation of the verse! "Iz kalatil-malaikato 'ya maryamo innal-laha yobash-shirokay bikalimatin minho-smohul-maseeho ee-sab-no maryama', wajeehan feed-dunya walakhirati wa minal-mukar-rabeena................." Ismohu means whose name was or whose name is or whose name will be, simply his name. The verse is not discussing the gender of the word or kalima.

The "hou" is referring to the term before it ... that's what we're discussing.

"Innallaha yobashshirokay baykalimatum-minho" does NOT really mean "Surely God gives you the good news of a word from Him". That is the word-to-word translation. The nessage to Maryam simply means "O' Maryam, God gives you the good news of a son". That is all to that.

Oh, really? So all English translations of the Quran are wrong. Assuming you're right, the grammar is still wrong.

From you: "Notice the bolded part hou is erroneously a masculine pronoun  when it should be feminine  since it's referring to "kalima" which is  feminine not masculine." If Jesus, essabno maryama were a girl, it would not have been ismo-hu. Since Jesus was Mary's male child, we cannot say that her name was Jesus, the son of Mary.

Obviously, you don't know grammar, then.

"Nafs" is a feminine term than can describe a male.

"Zawj" (when it means mate) is a masculine term that can describe a female.

Have fun learning

JIG

Apple Pie,

Don't waste my precious time or that of others', please. Do this on that Christian channel and have fun.  I will see you there in April 2007, when I will be teaching the Bible to the Christian friends there.

BMZ

bmzsp wrote: Apple Pie, Don't waste my precious time or that of others', please. Do this on that Christian channel and have fun.  I will see you there in April 2007, when I will be teaching the Bible to the Christian friends there. BMZ

Actually, I am not Apple Pie.

Apple Pie or not, we always own you in Arabic.

Don't forget that you admitted yourself that you're not an Arab boy, while I am one.

JIG

damaninchrist wrote: If we want to talk grammar, pronouns like "hou" and "ha" don't refer to terms after them.

That is a strange statement. Pronouns refer to what is logically related to them whatever their place.

You are basically saying that "ismou l masee7ou houwa l masee7ou" instead of "ismou l kalima houwa l masee7ou". Which statement makes sense?

And about the Bible in Arabic, I never claimed it's perfect in Arabic.

According to what I found in a detailed grammar of Classical Arabic there is no mistake in John 1:1.

Bismillah irrahman irrahim

I was going to ask you exact word for, 'whose, it, this' in arabic but seeing you are a professional in this circle. I will leave you to burn in this hatred of yours and yes you are arab and can speak arabic but what good has it done to you? 'And when they hear idle talk they turn aside from it and say: We shall have our deeds and you shall have your deeds; peace be on you, we do not desire the ignorant' (28:55).

I showed my son something very fascinating today and he was dazzled by it and said to me,"My Father, My God"!

Now I have become a God!   

Come on CARM member, let's discuss the short-cut to become God.