asalamu alaikum

im posting this on behalf of my husband. he has requested me to get info for him regarding the above topic. are there any sites that i could go to , or is anyone here in a polygamous marriage who has some advise for my husband and he currently feels that hes caught in the middle of very trying circumstances. he is keen to hear from other brothers who are in a similar situation. any info provided will be greatly appreciated

salaams

im not seeking advise here on whether to ask for a divorce or not. i am in a polygamous marriage n i agreed to it on my own. no one pressured me into it. the help i seek here is for my beloved husband who is now struggling cos hes caught in between the 2 of us n he wanted some advise from brothers in similar situations

i already checked the site mentioned above but its from a female perspective. im looking here for something from the male perspective.

I can say that is why it is not encouraged.. conflict often happens. Theoretically wives should be treated equally. Between time and money, etc, that must be hard. Espcially if their are children are involved.. no daddy does not come home here tonight. And we encourage parents to be invovled in their children' lives, but for men it is only 50% if they have nultiple homes.. hmmm. Just a few thoughts.. though it may work out for women who are more independent.  

The hardest part is that ultimately true giving of 50% is difficult and there often will be a hierarchy. Typically one wife will be "above the other" even in subtle distinctions. How is "comptetition" avoided? If the husband does like one more then the other the other wife really is a "duty."  I like going home here the other I go cause I have to.

Seems to have more then wife, several things must happen

1. The man must know and accept his duties fully.

2. The women involved must accept the situation. If the women involved do not it seems rather it would be difficult, hmm?

Is your husband looking for:

1. What he should be doing Islamically?

2. What are some practical solutions involved?

 To Sister Rooqaiya I'd like to say that you should tell her husband to be patient and understanding. He should put himself in his first wife's shoes and think about how he'd feel if the shoe were on the other foot. Also tell him to make plenty of dua to make the situation get better. I know of many polygamous situations where the first wife seemed like she'd never ever get over it and now the first and second wives are good friends. It can happen in your situation too.

  To Sister Jenna, I'd like to say how can you say you have no tolerance for muslims who practice polygamy in the West because they make Islam look bad. If Allah owns the earth then there is no where on it where what He has allowed can look bad. You shouldn't give a care what they think of Islam.

Taliyya,

I don't think its polygamy so much as the disregard for the laws of the land.  My religion once practiced polygyny too, but laws were passed and they threatened to take our holy places and God commanded us to obey the law.  So now we do not practice it anymore.  But there are groups who splintered that still do and they have made people see polygyny as a door to all kinds of abuses and other illegal activities. 

If you live in a country where it is legal, then there is no problem.  But, in the US is its very much against the law.  Having no tolerance for lawbreakers is not necessarily bad. 

AssalamuAlaikum Jenni.  Is it in the Quran or  is it a hadith that you cannot practice polygamy in the US?  Yes, it is illegal in some countries, but so what. Do you actually think that Allah(SWA) will punish them for having a polygamist marriage in the US or countries where polygamy is illegal.  Even if they get jailed, do you think that Allah (SWA) will still punished them for practicing polgamy.    I agree with Taliyya 100percent.  Please, I hope that you will delete your comment when you said 

"Other than that the reasons can only be selfish and self serving and he is not looking out for you. All his money, time as resources will have to be diveded between two families and unless he is very rich you will probably suffer poverty because of it. Most women I know would tell thier husband no way, and if he insisted they would file for divorce. That is what I would do, since the deal was clear before marraige, I wouldn't stand for it!!!"

 To all sisters, we have to be careful of the advice that we  give one another.  Allah (SWA) may punish us for not rightly guiding our brothers and sisters.  Sister Jenni I am sure that your intentions were from a good heart.  But what will work for you is not necessarily the best for someone else.  I know many sisters who are in polygamy relationships and they agreed to it.  In fact, I know few sisters, like me who would say no to it.  I am sure that if you were to discuss to us some of the things that your husband do to you or vice versa, then there will always be room opened for someone to say "girl leave that husband of yours?"  Sister Jenni, I hope that you will read this message with a gentle heart and with the understanding that my words were written with kindness.  I think that we as muslims forget when it is time to give advice, and when it is time to direct a person to an Imam.  If my advice is wrong, then may Allah(SWA) give some of my blessings to Jenni.

http://family.findlaw.com/marriage/living-together/common-law-marriage.html - http://family.findlaw.com/marriage/living-together/common-la w-marriage.html

stumbled upon this.

Peace.

I know a guy who lives in Saudi Arabia. He knows a few people in polygamous marriages. He says it is not all that common, just more common then here.

Taliyya: you brought up a good point about having a girlfriend, or several, and having kids is not illegal. But having two wives is. That was a very interesting point.  The man is not thrown in jail. But if a man marries two women it is illegal. hmmm

I do agree that to make it work properly and Islamically is very difficult. But people do make it work. It really depends upon the people involved. 

It would be interesting is a man with two wives and is legal in the country he lives in, decided to come to a place like US or UK, then is one no longer legal? Guess that would be the 2nd wife?

Of course it is not Islamic but there are places where women marry two men in tribes in Nepal. They often marry brothers. And they rotate where one goes up to the hills with the animals. The other stays with the wife. So she always has help. And then the kids are related to the father.    Go figure.

I don't know who you know but the polygamous families I know aren't liars, stealers, or poverty stricken. And I know many. I grew up in a community where almost all of the women had co-wives and none of the families were on welfare. Our community doesn't believe in taking money from Uncle Sam. So that excuse is out the window. None of the families were rich but that's not why we are on this earth. Furthermore, you mention 'sneaking'. I assume you mean sneaking to marry as a second or third wife. I'm not telling anyone to sneak around. Marriage should be announced to everyone. All I said was that one doesn't need a legal marriage certificate to be married in the sight of Allah and the Muslims. You say scholars on Islamicity say FOLLOW THE LAWS OF THE LAND YOU LIVE IN. Well, I know scholars who say that the earth is owned by Allah and whatever Allah has allowed or has ordained can be practiced ANYWHERE. Maybe I wasn't clear. A man marrying one woman legally and then the second, third, or fourth Islamically isn't illegal in the U.S. So that excuse is out the window also.

 As a side note, it seems to me that you have a problem with ppl who have 'too many kids'. Is this so?

taliyya wrote:  Maybe I wasn't clear. A man marrying one woman legally and then the second, third, or fourth Islamically isn't illegal in the U.S. So that excuse is out the window also.

UTAH CONSTITUTION
http://www.le.state.ut.us/~code/const/htm/co_04002.htm - Article 3
http://www.le.state.ut.us/~code/TITLE76/htm/76_09002.htm - 76-7-101. Bigamy -- Defense.

(1) A person is guilty of bigamy when, knowing he has a husband or wife or knowing the other person has a husband or wife, the person purports to marry another person or cohabits with another person.
(2) Bigamy is a felony of the third degree.
(3) It shall be a defense to bigamy that the accused reasonably believed he and the other person were legally eligible to remarry.

In many states, it does not matter whether they attempted a legally binding marriage.  They can be prosecuted even if they just have a "spiritual" marriage.  Especially in Utah and other formerly Mormon heavy states.  The Nikkah only marriage would not save a good Muslim brother from prosecution by the State.

Jenni wrote: Then I am sorry for you... And I hope you are not in the States, the U.K. Canada or Europe where you are breaking the law, I have no tolerance for Muslims who come to the west and practice polygamy here, as they make Islam look bad and only look like lawbreakers.

You have heard from Secular Jenni..when you will break the idols in your heart Jenni?,please do it before your death with the knowledge of Islam...

AssalaamuAlaikum sister Jenni,  You seem so bitter or maybe I am reading your post reply wrongly.  I agree with taliyya last statement 100 percent.  Where did you get your information about there are more single men in the westerncountries  than  single women? Mona's question still has not been answered.  She wrote in on this discussion forum to say that her husband needs some advice from the brothers.  Women sometimes have the tendency to be so emotional and sometimes we loose focus on what we are really agruing about. 

Anyway, brothers, if you are in a polygamy marriage then please post your advice on your experience as a polygamist husband.  Advices are needed not judgemental statements.

Please read Angelas post. When you come to the U.S. on an immigration visa, apply for a green card or citizen ship, one of the questions asked is "Do you inted to practice polygamy in the united states? " Of course everyone says no. So if you then practice polygamy or bygamy in the U.k or U.s you are a liar because you have signed your name saying you wouldn't!!! Secondly many polygamous families in the U.s. do depend on the state for some kind of support. How many men do you know can provide for private health insurance, rent, schooling and all the other needs of a family without any assistance for the government. 3. Muslim women in the west are in high demand, many  men have come from all over the world as workers, students and refugees and stayed. Their sisters and mothers stayed behind. Many brothers are having a hard time finding one wife and marrying non Muslims.

I will give you and example. When I was 20 the Mormon church (12 years ago) brought about 1,000 young iraqi male refugees over to help them settle from camps in Saudi. There were 10, yes 10 women from Iraq in the whole city. Allmost all of those men married non Muslims, some even converted to christianity. They were desperate and had allmost no chance for marraige and could not just bring a girl from Iraq. Some even got into trouble with prostitutes.

Now recently a friend of mine was divorced with a toddler and posted her profile on an Islamic website. She got hundred of emails a day. Many of them from local people saying they were having such a hard time finding anyone and just wanted to marry a nice lady. She ended up with a great guy with no kids that was never married.

There are few places in the world where women outnumber men. Those are warring places where alot of men have died. Maybe Iraq, Afghanistan, Sudan and some African countries. Other than that how is polygamy helping women in the rest of the world???? What purpose besides variety in sexual partners is it serving???? It is giving women less time and kids little time with thier fathers and forcing women to live in secret in thier communities and lie to their American neighbors, thier kids teachers and co-workers.WOW WHAT A GREAT LIFE THAT WOULD BE!!!! I do not have one friend at the Masjid or in my area that is in a polygamous marriage. Maybe it is the circle I am in of mostly South asains that are highly educated professionals. My husband finds the idea bizzare for our current modern life and has not had anyone in his family or circle of friends in Pakistan marry more than one woman. And I say again none of my friends would stand for it. The husband would be out of the house before he knew what happened.(And by the way many of my friends paid for part or all of thier houses)!!

AsaalaamuAlaikum sisters.  I was hoping that a male would have written in by now.  I am not participating in this topic anymore.  I still think that Jenni is angry about what Allah says about polygamy.  We are going to really be punished for our own personal beliefs that we incorporate into as Islam.  I pray for myself and muslims all over the world to continue to ask Allah(SWA) for guidance towards the right path.  Also too, to make us conscious of when we are practicing and believing in something that is not Islamic.  I really feel sorry for us all, including myself. 

Jenni wrote: Lady by the way what does Allah say about Polygamy? Does he say men, go do it, all of you? No, I have no problem with what is said in Quran. What is said and what people believe and do are two different things!

Right.

i wish the administrator would clsoe this topic. i started by asking advise from brothers in polygamous marriage. i needed the info at the request of my hubby. but now this has truned into a debate abt the merits n demerits of polygamy

i have no problem with people saying what they feel, but I humbly request that another new topic be started n then we can all comment n speak our minds on that topic.

i would rather have no replies at all, than see this debate going on, which isnt addressing the topic at all.

i hope i havent hurt anyones feelings. if i have, please forgive me

 sister jenni's implications that mainly the uneducated, poor, welfare mongers get involved in polygamous situations is at best offensive. i know several men who have more than one wife and they own their own businesses. i know two lawyers who have not two, but three wives. none of them are struggling to support their children or wives. there are men who only have one wife to support and are struggling. there are men who struggle to support themselves. this is life. some ppl have and some have more. to suggest that families are poor because of polygamy is wrong.

Sorry rooqiaya. Just had to say one last thing. I'm done now Inshallah.

no problem taliyya

i wish the brothers would respond. i appeal once again to the brothers. if u not comfortable sharing your story with everyone to see, then please send me a PM or email me at least. i need to hear from the brothers.

Sisters, obviously you are in denial since none of you have responded to my many many points read through the thread again and if you can argue all of my points about why polygamy in the west is a bad idea then please do so and I will eat my ideas.

Taliyya you are in Gambia, so I don't give credit to your statement. If a rich man comes here to immigrate he could only Bring one wife!!!!! He would have to leave the rest behind!!!! So what happens in Gambia has nothing to do with polygamists here. Most of them are poor here, maybe not in Muslim countries.

Jenni wrote: Taliyya a woman needs to hear all sides. The good, the bad and the ugly. She deserves to know the bad side of polygamy and the problems it involves. men!!!

How very true this statement is!  I am always amazed how cavalier polygamy is discussed among Muslim men, jokes, smiles, chuckels but no serious discussion.  Jenni's characterization of polygamy amongst lower income and poor working class families, though it may sound painfull, generally speaking I believe is very true.  Sure, specific examples contrary are found, but generally speaking what she says I have found to be the case also.  Women should be the most proactive in this debate.  Men often times are not properly educated islamically and frankly unable to see past their desire.  Taking on the enormous responsiblity of another family in this society is a tremendous burden that few are able to cope with.  What mostly happenes is that one wife is replaced for another - broken families and children without a father present in the home.  Many of these men searching for seconds wives are not even mature enough for one wife, not to mention financially stability.  And what surprises me is that women passively comply.  As Jenni said, know the good and bad and most importantly be informed.  One cannot dismiss the legal implications, financial burden, welfare burden and a host of other problems and considerations.  Further, women need to know that you can put into your marriage contract that you will not allow polgamy.  This is a very critical and important debate as it affect the very core of our Islamic community, the family.

 When you say "one woman is replaced for another", what do you mean? One woman is divorced or one woman is put on the back burner? Also do you mean the second wife complies to be in a polygamous relationship or the first wife passively complies by allowing her husband to take another? About the marriage contract, there are scholars who say that women cannot put anything into the marriage contract preventing the husband from doing what Allah has allowed him to do. They even go so far as to say that a man can agree to those conditions, put them on a contract and then later do what he feels like. So some women will think they're all protected by this contract and it ends up happening anyway. Of course a woman should be informed about the negatives of polygamy. But I don't think that's the problem. We're constantly deluged with the negatives from childhood. Trust me, horror polygamy stories aren't hard to find. So letting people know what they're getting into isn't even an issue.

I once was in a discussion with a  man looking for another wife.  He said his wife was back in Egypt and he needed a 2nd wife here in the states.  I asked him why and he said, companionship, and to help a sister. I said well why don't you marry the poor widow from Afghanistan or Somalia. Why would he want to marry a "well off" sister (myself) who is not destitute. He had no answer really for that.

Then (it gets better)

I asked would he tell his wife beforehand. He said no. He does not have to. (Islamically that is true I suspect.) He said his wife would not like it. THEN he said it was selfish of her to not want her husband to help some "poor" woman who needs help (this is not me but this is one of the main reasons to do so).

THEN I asked

Well should not all men then marry marry these wdows and destitute women. Why is it not then selfish of him to only want one wife. He said it just isn't.

So women are selfish if they do not want to share their husband and men are not (according to his logic) if they do not want to help these women (and have the means to do so.) Go figure.

To a degree Jenni is right. That by participating in a polygamous marriage you are delgating yourself to be outside of society norms. It can put yourself and, most importantly, the children on the outside of the society.  Then again, considering the strange family structures that exist these days (divorces, remarraige, gay parents etc. Nothing is outside of the norm anymore.)  I teach in a school  you cannot define anymore what a family is.  It has less of a societal impact then say 20 years ago. You can live in any large city and no one will think too much about anyone else's situation.

Illegal or legal, I cannot say. But if it is done Islamically (which I think is quite difficult) why not?  I think it is far more serious an issue the trafficing of women and children in the sex trade around the world.

 When you say "one woman is replaced for another", what do you mean? One woman is divorced or one woman is put on the back burner?

I mean divorce.  What I have seen is likely the first wife will be divorced and in some cases due to pressure from the first wife, he will divorce his new wife.

Also do you mean the second wife complies to be in a polygamous relationship or the first wife passively complies by allowing her husband to take another?

The first wife has little choice except to be informed and assist her husband to think deeply about what is about to undertake, that is if he informs her prior to getting married.  I'm concerned that the first wife having been informed of his intentions to take a second wife does not simply say, 'Ma'sha'Allah.'  If she knows that he is not working or unable to even afford his current responsiblities, she should stongly advise him otherwise.

Second wives really surprise me because generally speaking, no woman wants this situation for herself, so why they willing accept this is very strange to me.  Do they not realize how this will hurt his first family?  Do they even care? Are they so blinded by their desire for him?  These and other issues need to be discussed prior to passively walking into polygamy.

About the marriage contract, there are scholars who say that women cannot put anything into the marriage contract preventing the husband from doing what Allah has allowed him to do. They even go so far as to say that a man can agree to those conditions, put them on a contract and then later do what he feels like. So some women will think they're all protected by this contract and it ends up happening anyway.

This is why the debate is important, because the most reputable scholars, in my humble opinion, do allow for a women to place into her contract her desire not to be placed in a polygamous relationship, and they further state that any man who marries this women must comply or not marry her.

Of course a woman should be informed about the negatives of polygamy. But I don't think that's the problem. We're constantly deluged with the negatives from childhood. Trust me, horror polygamy stories aren't hard to find. So letting people know what they're getting into isn't even an issue.

Oh, but it is an issue Sister, trust me, I speak from a male's perspective.  Men are very fickle.  You have those who are not following their religion, which admonishes against mixing with women.  So at work or otherwise they sometimes under the guise of "dawah" start talking and visiting daily with strange women and this of course affects their hearts.  They begin having desires and before you know it - "well, Allah says I can have up to four wives" on a whim, without thinking they then want to take another wife.  This issue must be frankly discussed and believe me it is not sufficiently discussed amongst men. 

hope my reply in the other thread may help rookaiya.......

a more down to earth response (which i am reluctant to share because of the speculative nature of it) would have me say that, his other wife and you are pulling on him in different directions, so he has become the battleground for each of your grievances�.. in which case your husband is not caught but in the illusion of his wives illusions.  

salaams

please simplify what u are saying as these points are above my head. u say that hes caught in the illusions of his wives. what do u mean by that. please explain in simple terms cos im not understanding this at all

i get the point u make of him being pulled on either side, i.e by me n the first wife. yes that is happening and he has told me so as well

but the illusion part. are u saying that life as a whole is an illusion and that we need to focus our attentions on more real things like preparing for the hereafter , which is real.

am i making any sense to u at all. i feel so confused now

Dear rookaiya, no need to be confused, you know more than you may think you do�..

Holy Qur�an

Surat �l-'Imr�n

185. Everyone shall taste death. And only on the Day of Resurrection shall you be paid your wages in full. And whoever is removed away from the Fire and admitted to Paradise, he indeed is successful. The life of this world is only the enjoyment of deception (a deceiving thing).

With regard to the �illusions of his wives� comment (forgive my abstractness), it is as simple as this� as long as each of you vies (against each other) for your husband�s attention, you will all end up losing.  

Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 33, Number 249

Narrated 'Amra:

i guess the lesson in that is that one shouldnt be too greedy cos in the end u will be the loser

i so wish i could get another job in a new town, far away from here. Subhanallah to encounter those 2 daily is really taking its toll on me. i cant deal with running into them daily. i dont even leave my office during lunch or go to other floors, cos im afraid ill bump into them

even in the afternoons, i wait a while n leave after 10 mins, whne im sure that thye have left the building

all of the insensitive things this man could have done to me, hes moving here n coming to work in the same building, n bringing her along was the most insenstive

now we having a work function n i wont attend cos they will be there, and i will be feeling miserable throughout, just seeing them together

And I confuse you!!! Well right now I am the one confused.

OK, after that sudden raft of confusion I think I know where you are.

There is the issue regarding the fact that your husband and his first wife have had more time to become better acquainted with each other, and this may manifest itself (to you) in the form of him neglecting you (in favour of her), because subliminally he may feel more comfortable with his first wife, as she is more able to cater for his idiosyncrasies.

I have a feeling you may (currently) prefer a reply along the lines of � he is indeed neglecting you, and been insensitive toward your feelings. You would not have the grievance you have expressed if he had been treating you both on an equal footing (even if that meant you needed more attention). He has obviously not resolved your sense of injustice, for on top of everything else he has now suffocated you in that injury!

You know I am unable to make any decisions for you, and hey, who am I to advise anyone when I do not know the facts! Hence without wishing to sound stereotypical - seek guidance when in prayer to Allah {SWT}, who better a guide than the All-Knowing!

Dear rookaiya� know that I am not going anywhere, and there are plenty of caring people here at this forum that are willing to help you (and anyone else for that matter) through trying circumstances.

Hope I have helped (and will be able to help).

salaams

sorry for the confusion anthony. i got a bit carried away and started venting out my frustrations. the above was actually about my ex hubby n his wife( the woman that he dumped me for)

we all work for the same company n he had a fling with her at work, in total disregard for me ofcourse. to cut a long story short, i upped and left and moved back to my home town, took a transfer. same company. differnt city

lo and behold, 2 years later ex hubby n wifey dearest also transfer . i was pissed when i found out. now i cant even attend the work function cos they gonna be there and im not up to seeing them. its complicated cos all the halaal people share a table n we are bound to share a table

it frustrates me to know that i left these 2 in my past, but they couldnt let me have peace..............OH NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!that was too much to ask. they had to just come n work here........in my face

a week after arrival, wifey makes some nasty remarks to me. i reported her n she was told not to communicate with me

then ex hubby calls me n visits my office like every day. i tell him to leave me alone cos we are over. he persists. i report him too n hes warned not to communicate with me at work

so at least i have some peace of mind now

so, u see the above drama has nothing to do with my hubby n his first wife. its my ex n his wife........................................................ .

Thanks for the clarification, and the lesson�..

Maybe I should have just been an ear to listen (and sympathise), rather than trying to solve your problem(s) for you� so yeah�.. what a bummer of a situation!

Hey its not like your missing much in a work do anyway, it�s the everyday that sounds like the greater grief�.. anyway I think he may still even have a thing for you, despite all that�s happened! I�d say your (current) hubby is the lucky one, after all, look at the trouble you have gone to in order to understand his problems.

Sorry but I can�t resist just offering a smidgen of advice (even if it is misplaced), they are the one�s festering, so don�t let them instigate that feeling within you�.. sounds like they deserve each other to me!  

salaams

just wanted to let everyone know tht i have started a blog where i vent out about my feelings and experiences with polygamy. i wanted to thank everyone for all the responses that i received here

u can find the blog here http://frompolygamytosinglemom.blogspot.com - http://frompolygamytosinglemom.blogspot.com