Christian minorities in Muslim countries
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Topic: Christian minorities in Muslim countries
Posted By: Fidel
Subject: Christian minorities in Muslim countries
Date Posted: 24 September 2006 at 2:04pm
| A frequent complaint is made against us that we mistreat Christian minorities in our countries. What do you think? Surely, it is the Christians fault for not falling in line and becoming Muslim. |
Replies:
Posted By: superme
Date Posted: 24 September 2006 at 2:23pm
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Is that all? I thought they are in the firing line by now. My advice is stop making imagination in your spare time for something that is so obvious. Just spend a bit of your time and money and go to a place you have just created in your mind and talk to the local people and do sobbing there, air your grievances. I assume you also think the people in part of Indonesia also cannibals. See how the imagination works?
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Fidel wrote:Posted By: Fidel
Date Posted: 25 September 2006 at 1:08pm
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Posted By: ak_m_f
Date Posted: 25 September 2006 at 1:29pm
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another fake trying to tarnish the Image of Islam.
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Posted By: ummziba
Date Posted: 25 September 2006 at 1:42pm
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They seem to be crawling out of the woodwork in droves these days.... ------------- Sticks and stones may break my bones, but your words...they break my soul ~ |
Posted By: Aisha Muslima
Date Posted: 25 September 2006 at 1:45pm
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Fidel, christian have their rights to belive in their religions and Mohammad (saw) said to respect them. You cant said to them "go back to your own country!" that not a Islamic attitude ------------- Aisha Muslima |
Posted By: ak_m_f
Date Posted: 25 September 2006 at 3:54pm
yes ,when ever Islam is mentioned in the media. we see surge of them, This is an old tactic; act as muslim & post propaganda against Islam. He will soon declare his conversion to another religion and will start posting the work of Ali Sina [the so called Ex muslim himself.  ]
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Posted By: Fidel
Date Posted: 28 September 2006 at 12:33pm
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Me tarnish the image of Islam? Some would say it is doing a pretty good job of it by itself! (Lightning flash misses me) Joking aside, who are you to call me a fake? That's rather judgemental. I am insulted. I feel like holding several "days of anger" till you give a groveling apology, not once, but 3 times... |
Posted By: Shadi_Al-amin
Date Posted: 29 September 2006 at 10:11am
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People of ALL religions must be respected and treated as if you wanted to be treated...["Let there be no compulsion
in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects Taghut (evil)
and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trust worthy hand-hold, that never
breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. " (Qur'an 2:256)] Surah 109 Al-Kafir�n (The Unbelievers) Bismillaah ar-Rahman ar-Raheem Qul yaa ayyuhal kaafiruun Laa 'abudu maa t'abuduun Walaa antum 'aabidunna maa a'abud Walaa ana 'aabidun maa 'abadttum Walaa antum 'aabiduuna maa a'abud Lakmu deenukum wa liya deen In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful. Say: Oh you who turn away I do not worship what you worship, nor do you worship what I worship. And I will not worship what you worship, Nor will you worship what I worship. Your way is yours, and my way is mine. Translated by Kabir Helminski So you see Religious tolerance is commanded in islam. |
Posted By: muslim-mother
Date Posted: 29 September 2006 at 10:39am
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I have been to alot of western forums lately .. Sadly there is ongoing war on muslims every where since some time .. you can imagine how many websites spread lies about our beloved prophet .. and holy koran The west is resisting islam as it sees as threat to 'freedom' . in europe for example, they have already abandoned all religions , while islam is spreading fast in USA . I think muslims every where should KNOW how to talk to westerns about ISlam in a civilised way .. Muslims should unit again and present a good image of islam in the west ..
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Posted By: Shadi_Al-amin
Date Posted: 29 September 2006 at 10:48am
My Respected Elder I agree with you.I do my best to explain the qur'an and spread islam,and tell the truth about islam inshallah. |
Posted By: B.H.
Date Posted: 29 September 2006 at 8:07pm
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I have been a convert to Islam for about three or four months now.
I used to be real active and well repsected by a lot of people on the internet and in real life. I announced my conversion on the discussion boards I post on and immediately was cut off by just about everyone who was a Christian or atheist. I have not told anyone else that I have converted in person/real life. I live in the US and am afraid of what some people may do to me.
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Posted By: Shadi_Al-amin
Date Posted: 29 September 2006 at 8:09pm
Lol my brother I was born a muslim in the united states,and racism is so intense I was told to ignore it like all the other muslims.I gotten kicked out of 4 schools because my small city is so racist.But you have nothing to fear just do as you wish and nothing will happen to you. |
Posted By: ak_m_f
Date Posted: 29 September 2006 at 8:32pm
really? why didnt you sued them? |
Posted By: muslim-mother
Date Posted: 30 September 2006 at 12:47am
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TO Fadil There is a forum that really spreads hate to all muslims that i know .. if you want to go to this specific forum , tell me so i can give the web link to it .. I am so sad when i see all the insults and lies about our beloved prophet and koran .. so many muslims there have left this specific western forum .. i wish muslims can unit and support each other more .. Palestianans people in Gaza are starving in ramdan , Westerns are united to fight ISLAM itself not just terror groups just as Taliban .. We must are blind to the fact that westerns really hate muslims and islam itself .. the majority of westerns i have met in other forums, say that islam is a violent religion as they only see in thier media the killings . They donot see the real islam .. i have so many things to share with you muslims here .. The media is not even honest in spreading the real image of islam it take tolerance and patience to correct the false image the west has drawn to muslims .. so what we can do ? |
Posted By: muslim-mother
Date Posted: 30 September 2006 at 12:53am
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To shadi al amin You are not the first one to be treated this way .. In the denmark forum i went to , an american man said he converted to islam, They have insulted him and they have offended him ALOT .. you canot imagine how much they insulted him .. so shadi donot be upset at all or sad , God is watching all of thier lies and insults .. and we believers should have patienance and tolerance .. i want you to visit this website http://www.islamonline.net - www.islamonline.net i know all websites now .. God bless you and donot be sad or upset . Muslims are rejected every where .. and especially if one converts to islam, he/she is rejected more .. hold on to your faith ..
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Posted By: Fidel
Date Posted: 03 October 2006 at 9:02am
I think we have to be honest. Islam is a violent religion, that is, we do believe in the use of violence for certain purposes. (I don't see anything wrong in the use of Jihad for self-defense for example). That doesn't mean all muslims use violence, but only some when necessary. Also, we never hear of religions such Buddhism in connection with violence, because they clearly reject all forms of violence. Islam isn't a non-violent religion like for example the Amish or the Quakers, to suggest it is, is false. I think we have be honest and truthful, otherwise we make ourselves look like silly liars in the West. |
Posted By: Aisha Muslima
Date Posted: 03 October 2006 at 5:15pm
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ok Fidel, i completly disagree with you, Islam is NOT a violent religion! The only way we use "violent" is to protect ourshelf from oppressor!!!! and that not called violent, that is called self defense! Muslims are ONLY allow to use "violent" to protect themshelf and the society from oppressors but it only at the LAST resort, when we have no other options. If i speak like you, everyone is violent and every religions is violent even the laws, since self defense is bad! im sorry to said this but to be honest with you, i dont think you know the definition of violent and self defense. im sorry if i offend you but i had to tell you this since i really dont like it when people espicially Muslims said wrong things about Allah, Islam and Mohammad (saw) ------------- Aisha Muslima |
Posted By: aramuh
Date Posted: 03 October 2006 at 5:51pm
I really appreciate this post because it brings out how very careful we have to be with the words we use. A lot of misunderstandings arise so easily with different interpretations of language - especially in these times when we are such a global community and yet we need to account for cultural differences that can influence our translations. Its a great way to get to know one another but also there is danger in causing unintended offence as well. Peace |
Posted By: Dzul
Date Posted: 03 October 2006 at 8:26pm
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I agree that Fidel need to understand Islam a bit more before putting his thoughts or starting a thread like this. Hi I am a born Muslim residing in Singapore. Our country has a secular government hence all religion exists side by side. As far as I have seen here, Islam has never treated anyone with disrespect. We have not even go all out to preach to others to join our religion. Unlike the Christians, where they are constantly trying to get other Non-Muslims to join their faith by stopping them in the malls or other public places and talk religion to them. Even our "masjids" do not have banners that preaches about Islam. I cannot say likewise for the churches here. What we actually seek is for everyone else to understand us and leave us alone with our faith. At most that we do here is open up certain areas in our "masjids" to the public where we showcase information about Islam. For your information, the Eastern religions such as Hinduism, Taoism and Buddhism also adopt such ways here. But sadly, I cannot say the same about Christians. |
Posted By: Fidel
Date Posted: 04 October 2006 at 12:22pm
| I know self-defence is acceptable, but I do think we have to look at what we call self-defense. (For example, the US' idea of self-defense is attack first, before others attacks them. ) Some Muslims don't use self-defence in its true sense, as is the case with some non-muslims too. I am against violence and I struggle with my faith in Islam, because I see a growing acceptance of violence. Fatwas are sometimes issued if people disagree with us. In some countries there is still stoning and female circumcision. In other countries, we can still get get a hand taken off for stealing. I don't know if I can agree with this. I dislike the way some of us threaten those who we disagree with. I know we muslims ought to not express these things, but my conscience can't ignore them. What will my community do to me if I abandon Islam for a less militant religion. I am lost... |
Posted By: Aisha Muslima
Date Posted: 04 October 2006 at 3:37pm
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Assalam alikum Fidel, i understand what you feeling right now, i felt like this before. I dont think you have to leave Islam for this since in other religions they have this too (christianny, hinduism, juive), it probably not excatly the same but still. You need to study Islam more and regulary, it will help you inshaAllah. I see a growing acceptance of violence And you shouldnt associate those islamics country EVERYTHING they do, that dont necessary mean it Islamic. Many muslims misintreprting these acts. (For example, the US' idea of self-defense is attack first, before others attacks them. ) Some Muslims don't use self-defence in its true sense, as is the case with some non-muslims too. Self defense dont mean is attacking first, it mean ur protecting urshelf or other from the attacker. Example one evening, you are with ur family at ur home. A group of crazy mens get in ur house and they are armes. They are hurting ur mother, ur wife, ur sisters, brothers, ur childrens. They are about to rape ur family and beat them to death. What are you gonna do? Stand there and try to maitenance peace? No, you will do like everyone else SELF DEFENSE, you will kill them to protect ur family and ur community. The community because they (crazy mens) will do it to some other family too. female circumcision Some of my friends come from those muslim country like Somalia where they pratic female circumcision but it not about religious issues, it the traditions. But if you look at other muslims countrys they never pratic it. Some of my friends come from Morroco and her family NEVER hear of female circumcision and they do not agree with it. About to cut hand if u steal, i think u talking about Soudith Arabia country, Did u know that they have the less stealer of the country? One men who live there told me that they do that to protect the socety from stealers. The stealer think many times before commit the crime. They do not cut the hand of a kids or someone who steal 10 bucks! They do it to peoples who steal like millions of dollars from hard work, honest innoncents peoples. But in other muslim country they dont. ------------- Aisha Muslima |
Posted By: Aisha Muslima
Date Posted: 04 October 2006 at 4:06pm
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I have a excellent book "Islamic FActs refuting the allegations against Islam write by Dr. Mahmoud Hamdy Zakzouk. He explain about ur questions. So i will write some of ur question here Is the Islamic code of punishment brutal? 1- Islam is not a religion that advocates brutality. On the contrary it calls for mercy, clemency, and toleration. Nevertheless, it insists on establishing law and order in the community so as to safeguard the freedom and the rights of its members, and to protect their lives, beliefs, wealth, possessions, and families. When Islam imposes a certain punishment for a specific sin, it takes into consideration two factors: a) Man is not infallible, but it constantly exposed to temptation. Thus the door of repentance is always open to those who regret having committed sins and repent and desire to atone. b) Every member of the community is entitled to live a life of safety and to feel that he, his family, and his property are not exposed to any kind of danger. Thus the depraved or corrupted behavior of criminals should be dealt with accordingly, so that the peace-loving members of the community would not live in a state of fear and apprehension. 2- Although Islam had made laws to punish crimes, it requires decisive proof of the guilt of the accused person before passing a sentence on him and does not enforce the punishment if there is any doubt concerning his guilt. Also if any guilty person repents sincerely of his sin, the sentence can be suspended if the judge is convinced of the sincerity of the accused. The Prophet said: ��Try to prevent enforcing the penalty on Muslims whenever it is possible to do so, and should there be the slightest doubt as to the guilt of the accused person, set him free. It is far better that a judge errs in remitting the penalty than erring in enforcing it. � Such an authentic saying from the traditions of the Prophet is the essence of mercy and tolerance. 3- The penalty for adultery in Islam depends on a certain condition that makes it almost impossible to enforce. The condition is that the act of adultery must be witnessed by four peoples who must swear that they saw the act committed. Accordingly, the two incidents in the history of Islam when this penalty was enforced were the result of the confession of the guilty parties and not of the evidence of witnesses. The Prophet did his best to try and persuade the guilty persons to change their statements in which they confessed their guilt but they confirmed them and the Prophet was accordingly compelled to order enforcing the penalty, in spite of his profound grief. In view of the condition stipulated and the extreme difficulty of fulfilling it, such a punishment never occurred again in the history of Islam. Also you have to know that It only for the married couple who do zina with other person. Also you have to know that if other persons. And anyone who have a penalty for his sins like zina on earth, he will not be punish on the Day of Judgment since he allready being punish for it on reath, he will be saved from that. I will continue writting about cut off the hand and the femal circumission later inshaAllah take care ------------- Aisha Muslima |
Posted By: Fidel
Date Posted: 06 October 2006 at 3:17pm
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Assalam alikum Aisha Muslima! Thanks for your input! I probably needed to study Islam more regularly, but questions arise that the Qu'ran doesn't give clear answers to. For example, should anyone be involved in punishing adultery? Who is so sinless that they condemn another? I have read that in Christianty, Jesus said to a group about to punish a woman for adultery, "He who is without sin cast the first stone" (Of course, none threw a stone). I am thinking I will join a Christian church, as it's teaching is gentler, less harsh. Maybe it's a cop out, but it suits my personality. The whole world seems to hate Islam at the moment and I am beginning to wonder why. I know it will be hard on my family, but I can't bear being so different in society. I shaved my beard today for the first time in weeks. I have given my Qu'ran away to my family. I think when I did that, there is no turning back. I saw a priest today to begin instruction on becoming a Catholic. Their Church seems quite down to earth and welcoming. I haven't made up my mind fully, but at least finding out more will decide it for me. |
Posted By: Aisha Muslima
Date Posted: 06 October 2006 at 7:16pm
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assalam alikum Fidel, look about ur questions about aldultery i know it only about marry couple but it have to be witness by 4 peoples who see the act, it pretty hard to have sex in public no? If there is one single doubt about it, they cant do it and if the person dont confessed they cant. If the person repent they cant stone her to death since Allah is the more merciful god! So in the botton line it allmost impossible to happen. Like i told you before Catholic have these things too. You cant just change to catholic because you have some misunderstanding about Islam. I bet you dont even know about catholic very much either. I was catholic before and i have the bible and there is many "violence" too. They have the same about aldultery, if the girl is not a virgin before marriage, rape,,,,and other things. I rather not posts thoses verse in here, if you want them i post it in ur PM. The reason behind that is to protect the weakers peoples (the childrens, womens, eldery). Look i dont force u to stay as a muslim or to change as a catholic but i dont like the idea that you change to a catholic ONLY because you dont understand Islam and u didnt even study the bible. You should become in a religion only when you know and understand the religion. That mean STUDY. If you change to catholic now then one day you dont understand something in catholic what you will do change to other religion that seem easier to ur questions? Why dont you go to a islamics class and bible class to study it at the same time? Take your time, to understand the two religions and decide after. Also allways pray to God to guide you and help you on the right path. wa alikum assalam and one more thing you said the world seem to hate Islam so you will change to a religion that the world dont seem to hate, what if one day the world hate Christianisme? You will change to jews because the world dont hate the jews? Just dont fallow what other peoples do, if everyone jump in front of a moving train, to kill themshelf will you do it too? ------------- Aisha Muslima |
Posted By: Fidel
Date Posted: 09 October 2006 at 2:13pm
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I'll study more about Islam, but I get a better feeling, the more I
look at the Catholic faith. It seems more objective. In Islam, there is
too much scope to interpret things whatever way you like. It is very
subjective, it doesn't appeal to me anymore really. I think of why
Hitler was so successful in seducing a nation, it was because people
could hear or believe what they wanted to believe in either his book
"Mein Kampe" or in his speeches - it was intentionally vague. (I only
use that as an analogy - there is no moral comparison intended). All the attempts to interpret the Quran, either by the Caliphate or the numerous scholars seem to me now like attempts to fix bugs in Microsoft software with new patches. Fundamentally, the Quran seems to me a big muddle, maybe it is in poetic language, but it is a muddle. Be merciful, don't be merciful. Coercion is bad, coercion is good. It is a recipe for neurosis! It has all stretched my credibility too far. My belief has just popped like a bubble and I wonder why I believed in it all along. We believed in it, because we wanted it be true. We have only Muhammad's word on it, that it is true. The historical record is so scetchy. I wouldn't bet my eternal destiny anymore on what is so flimsy. Islam has become poisoned anyway, with Wahhabalism. It's a sinking ship and I don't want to stay on it any longer. Sorry! |
Posted By: Aisha Muslima
Date Posted: 09 October 2006 at 3:08pm
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assalam alikum fidel, as long as ur happy i dont care, but for ur information Nobody can interpret the quran like they wishs! But more the years goes more peoples get too much lazy to learn the true islam. They change it to their own interpretions. You speak like u said it only muslims who interepet quran as they want. The Catholicsm they change the bible many time and for my opinion nobody have a right to change them but there are too many mistake in the bible big and small like when they are naming the citys they said there are 14 citys and naming all of them but only name 13 citys. For my opinion nobody should change no religions they have to stay as they are. And dont tell me catholic dont kill nobody, i know a friend one of her family relative (her grand mother) had a baby and the church kill him because she wasnt marry and many peoples before got killed by the church because they were agaisnt catholicism. (im sorry if i offend anyone but that what happened) We Muslims dont only have Mohammad (saw)words on it, we have Abrahams (saw) words and Jesus(saw) words also. In the Torah, Bible and Quran. If you belive in it all alone only because you said it because you wanted it to be true then said it for urshelf, dont said the word WE, it might be your opinion but not mine! I belive in Islam (sumit to one god) all my life even if i was a catholic, i never pray to Jesus (saw) i never belive he is the son of god, i never belive that god the most merciful had to kill his own son Jesus (saw) so he can forgive our sins espicially the orginal sin of Adam and Eve. I do belive that Islam is the true and the christiannisme espically catholicsm become poissonous. Only look at the 10 commendenment and there a contradiction there. So be carful the way you explain ur own opinion, dont include everybody. If you change ur religion and ur happy good for you, i have mine and im happy. wa alikum assalam take care ------------- Aisha Muslima |
Posted By: muslim-mother
Date Posted: 10 October 2006 at 1:26am
Thank you Aisha for replying to Fidel .. I was busy last week so i didnot check the forum However i have replies to him First ; islam isnot violent religion because Muslims never spead islam by Sword .. And there is no compulsory in ISlam .. The Crusades who killed thousands of muslims bruthally and it was called by priests in the catholic church .. and then the holocaust .. Can any one deny that hilter _ the catholic did it .. SO now if we really history we know what religion is violent .. and Sadly Fidel , your faith is so weak .. I hope you can pray for guidance .. Please see this website http://www.abdelkafy.com/ - www.abdelkafy.com Fidel , if you are afraid of western reactions once they know that you are muslim , and you are not afraid of Almighty GOD .. YOU are afraid of people? Not GOD .. you are a muslim and you SHOULD be proud to be muslim .. Only God you MUST fear .. no one else .. !! FEDIL , seeing your post is very saddening to me .. if we muslims are afraid of people reactions .. then we are not really muslims ..we only fear GOD .. Your heart is afraid of people .. that is very sad ..
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Posted By: muslim-mother
Date Posted: 10 October 2006 at 1:28am
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Aisha . Thank you for replying to Fedil Fedil .. see my pervious post .. May GOD guide to a strong faith .. You need to PRAY alot and read quran .. |
Posted By: muslim-mother
Date Posted: 10 October 2006 at 1:43am
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TO fedil __________________
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����� ����� ������� ������ �������� ����������) �� ���� ��������� ���� ����� ���� ��� ����� ����� ������ ��� ���� ������ ������ �� ���� ���� �� ��� ����� ����� ���� ���� ���� ��� �� ���� ���� �� ���� ���� �� ���� �� ��� ������ ��� �� ��� ��� � ���� ���� ���� ������� �� �������� �� ������ �� �� �� ���� ���� ������ �������� ��� � � ��� ������� �� ������� ������ ��� �� ���!00 ����� ���� � �� ��� �����! ���� ���� �� ���� ������! ���� ���ѡ �� ���� ������!! ����� �������� �� ��� ����� �������00 �� ���� ���� ������ ��� ���!!00 �� ���� ���� ������� ��� ���!!00 �� ��� ���� ������ ��� �� ���� ���� �� ����!!00 �� ��� ���� ����� �� ����� ��� ����� ���� ���� �������..Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 15 October 2006 at 1:11am
Sis what script is this I can't read can you help, Thanx ------------- Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction. |
Posted By: Sign*Reader
Date Posted: 15 October 2006 at 2:36am
What is your date of birth, and where do you live then I can figure out what is your real problem with your soul  There is no need for scholar for the following signs to read Just remember one thing that every good is from Allah and every evil is from your own soul. 2:286 On no soul doth Allah Place a burden greater than it can bear. It gets every good that it earns, and it suffers every ill that it earns. You like to jump in a swamp, no problemo my friend--don't complain about aligators later 4:79 Whatever good, (O man!) happens to thee, is from Allah. but whatever evil happens to thee, is from thy (own) soul. and We have sent thee as an apostle to (instruct) mankind. And enough is Allah for a witness. Allah apostle's read disbelievers the riot act and that is what you got. People do throw away their summons feigning insanity and then one day they end up as guests in the big house. And pay to understand the charges against them in earnest. 4:97 When angels take the souls of those who die in sin against their souls, they say: "In what (plight) Were ye?" They reply: "Weak and oppressed Were we in the earth." They say: "Was not the earth of Allah spacious enough for you to move yourselves away (From evil)?" Such men will find their abode in Hell,- What an evil refuge! - 7:177 Evil as an example are people who reject Our signs and wrong their own souls. 8:53 "Because Allah will never change the grace which He hath bestowed on a people until they change what is in their (own) souls: and verily Allah is He Who heareth and knoweth (all things)." 10:44 Verily Allah will not deal unjustly with man in aught: It is man that wrongs his own soul. Now think about it, what is so vague? I would recommend that you need to know the Prophet first, and then Quran in in the context of its revelations. Nobody can help you but you Them my mom used to say bless her soul " when the mind is evil the excuses are galore to do or not do anything good"
You know what Quran is? it is the Quality Assurance Manual for human lives and souls, I suppose you may be living in western hamisphere and must understand how the Quality Assurance systems work, it is exactly the way you produce a rocket. If it is not clear I will explain later.
42:35 But let those know, who dispute about Our Signs, that there is for them no way of escape. Gooood luck ------------- Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction. |
Posted By: Fidel
Date Posted: 16 October 2006 at 9:32am
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Thank you all who have contributed their advice. I am afraid that
despite your assurances that a) Islam never spread itself by the sword
b) there is only one correct interpretation of the Quran that can be
made, I simply don't share your belief that this could be true. The
historical record is that Islam has forced people to convert when
persuasion wasn't enough (even Al Qaeda referred to the "head tax" of
the past). How did the second primary seat of Christianity,
Constantinople become Muslim? Persuasion, no? By force. It would be
like Rome suddenly becoming Muslim. Islam is doing the same today,
using terrorism. It is too easy to disown those, who do Islam's bidding
on one hand and accept them on the other hand when it suits. I
have been brainwashed for years. As soon as I brought up
awkward questions, others became defensive, because they haven't ever
really questioned it for themselves. I have since been baptised.
I have become a Christian. I have discovered that many things that we
said about Christians are untrue. |
Posted By: peacemaker
Date Posted: 16 October 2006 at 9:40am
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Back up your claims with reliable sources. This section is where non-Muslims can ask questions about Islam. You will not be allowed to spread any lies here. Back up your claims, otherwise your posts will be deleted. Consider this a warning. ------------- Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny? Qur'an 55:13 |
Posted By: peacemaker
Date Posted: 16 October 2006 at 9:46am
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Fidel: You will not be allowed to post anti-Islam web sites as references. Your recent post after first warning was deleted.
------------- Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny? Qur'an 55:13 |
Posted By: muslim-mother
Date Posted: 18 October 2006 at 9:23am
I agree that fidel should be banned from this forum .. He is spreading lies and misconceptions about his OWN religion and now he is hesitant about HIS religion Islam doesnot need someone like him .. he is not fearing GOD .. if he fears God . he will not post lies and hate about ISlam ..
Well - With all western media spreading lies and hate about Islam .. i wonder what the muslim world need to do .. I have seen so many westerns forums spreading so many lies . and hate .. muslims should unit .. And fedil ,, You are not welcomed here .. due to the fact that only true muslime need to be here in this ISLAMIC forum .. Salam alkoum
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Posted By: muslim-mother
Date Posted: 18 October 2006 at 9:27am
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the muslim world should wake up with all of its sincere muslims to defend islam in a strong way not violent way.. ISlam is the right true religion . if we muslims are not proud of our relgion , the west will never respect us .. I will post more article on how we msulims can defend our relgion facing the lies spread by the west .. it is a whole agenda
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Posted By: Fidel
Date Posted: 23 October 2006 at 1:14pm
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Peacemaker, you have asked me to back up my claims with reliable sources. (To those who are accusing me of telling lies, all I will say is simply that I am stating what I in clear conscience believe is the truth.) OK then: "Islam spread partly as a result of conquest". Who said this? The following in an open letter to Pope Benedict.
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Posted By: Dzul
Date Posted: 23 October 2006 at 6:51pm
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Eventhough Islam is spread through conquest but do you honestly think that Islam is forced to the people in that country ? If this ever happened why are there still Christian and Jews in that country ? What I know was through this people of the conquered country get to experienced Islam first hand not through lies and rumours... Waullahu'allam...
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Posted By: Andalus
Date Posted: 23 October 2006 at 9:54pm
This is the problem with your reasoning: "by conquest" is not an admission or an evidence of "forced conversion" after conquest. Before conquest, your neighborhood friendly Christians (the group you identify with in regards to theology but differ in nuances) considered Islam to be an outlawed, heretical branch unfit to be openly practiced and discussed in its lands. After war was waged between your group and Muslims, when Muslims were the victors, this allowed open practice and discussion of Islam. Christianity was not banned, or outlawed, but the face of Islam was open after conquest to societies that would have banned it, and killed people for practcing it openly prior.
Spread though trade meant that Muslims who traded with distant lands who did not have problems with open discussions of religion and were pluralistic were allowed to see it and talk to Muslims openly. Hope this helps. ------------- A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah http://www.sunnipath.com http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/ http://www.pt-go.com/ |
Posted By: Andalus
Date Posted: 23 October 2006 at 10:08pm
I believe in the use of violence to defned myself. So I am violent. The US believes in waging war to secure assets that have value to the globalist corporate machine by way of the indusstrial military complex. The Us is violent. According to CHristian theology, Jesus is Gd. Jesus was a part of the triune gdhead that justified mass genocide of babies and women as a means to cleanse the holy land of impure races to make way for those Jesus and family did love. So Jesus is violent. The church murdered and persecuted countless peoples who did not agree with even the smallest nuances of their set theological beliefs. The church is violent. Israel has used thousands of Arab Jews in medical experiemnts, leading to the deaths and illnesses of thousands (this is an established fact). Israel is violent. Are you getting the picture now? Is it becoming clear that you are over simplifying a deeper concept.
Jihad simpyl means "struggle". It would be more accurate to say that you see nothing wrong with Muslims defending themselves.
Tell that to the Ch'an buddhists (They formed the shaolin temple). Tell that to the thousands of Samurai who were Zen buddhists (Japanese offshoot of CH'an buddhism). You are still trying to over simplify a deeper concept.
who has been lying about it?
------------- A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah http://www.sunnipath.com http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/ http://www.pt-go.com/ |
Posted By: Fidel
Date Posted: 24 October 2006 at 11:04am
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Andalus, Your line of reasoning is bizarre. All I am interested in is genuine history, not the pseudo-history that says that despite the intimidating presence of Muslim armies in Christian countries people were free to remain non-Muslim. Constantionople was once one of the most Christian cities in the world. In 1453, Constantinople fell to Muslim armies, who enslaved the Greek Christian population of the city, changed the name of the city, and turned all the churches into mosques. According to Wikipedia, "Although the Turks overthrew the Byzantines, Fatih Sultan Mehmed the Second (the Ottoman Sultan at the time) styled himself as the next Roman Emperor ("Kayser-i-Rum") and let the Orthodox Patriarchate continue to conduct their own affairs, having stated that they did not want to join the Vatican. However, this did not stop him from ordering the conversion of the city's central cathedral, Hagia Sophia, into a mosque, and having a Muslim scholar decree from its pulpit that there is no god but Allah. Following the Turkish conquest all Christians not killed or sold into slavery were relegated to the status of Dhimmis." Also, in relation to the general experience of populations placed under Muslim rule, "Most conversions were voluntary and happened for a number of different reasons. However, forced conversion did play a key role in some later periods of Islamic history, mostly in the 12th century under the Almohad dynasty of North Africa and al-Andalus as well as in Persia where Shi'a Islam is dominant." (Wikipedia) "Bernard Lewis states:
We cannot undo past history however we stick our heads in the sand. We do have a problem with violence, the first step in tackling that is to face up to it, admit it and then root it out. I am not interested in semantics. Can those who have accused me of spreading lies, please retract that nonsensical accusation. I want to establish the truth. I am so glad to have left Islam. I can now live with my head out of the sand. Let us now have a sensible debate, based on facts and not on shouts of "liar, liar, your pants is on fire!" and without disrespectful threats of censorship.
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Posted By: Aisha Muslima
Date Posted: 24 October 2006 at 1:29pm
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i dunno Fidel but i got a feeling that u was never a muslim like you said, And all this time you was a Christian. Since you ask a question here for "help" but it wasnt true. You had ur own answer in ur brain and no matter what peoples here explain to ur questions you didnt even lestin to it. You keep trying to put Islam in lies! I got a feeling that you just here to try to bash Islam with lies just like some others non muslims (i said some because there are good non muslims). Peace. ------------- Aisha Muslima |
Posted By: Andalus
Date Posted: 24 October 2006 at 10:22pm
You will have to provide examples where my line of reasoning was "bizaar". It might be more productive to directly state the problems in my reply, rather than skip it (or what appears to be a bait and switch on your part) and assert a problem and then deflect to a point where the concpet was already covered. This is why I ask you to refrain from just labeling something as "bizaar", or "wrong", in contrast to directly engaging the points given to you. What pseudo history was given? You dispute that other faiths were unable to exist in Muslim lands? Do you disagree with my observation of your "ambiguous" focus on "by way of army" vs "by way of missionaries or traders"? You must be more clear.
First, it does not make your case look very worthy of serious refelction or consideration when you deliberately "exaggerate". You assert that all of the churches were converted to mosques, and your evidence is a quote which states that the Haja Sophia was converted into a mosque (a move more tasteful than the Christian act of truning mosques into stables). This is called generalizing from the particular. The Haja Sophia being converted does not imply that all churches were converted. The last I checked, Istanbul has many ancient churches, as does Turkey. Second, the Byzantium Romans had tried to do the same to the Turks of Anatolia, and if they had the opportunity, they would have conquered them. So these two forces had always been at odds, and used marriage as a way to maintain a peaceful "tension". Third, your quotes states that the Ottomans preserved and protected the Orthodox church. Given they had been under threat and pressure from the Roman Church, one may credit the Muslim Turks for protecting the line and place of the Eastern Church. This places your thesis in great doubt, and sheds light on your "exaggeration" of events. Fourth, if all of the Christians were murdered and sold into slavery, then Istanbul would have been a ghost town, and would could hardly answer the question: If so many Christians were murdered, and put into slavery, then how did Istanbul become a thriving center of trade and commerce that surpassed Constantinople, as a pluralistic society made up of peoples of differing faiths in such a short time? If your thesis and exaggerations were correct, this would not have happened. As an example: When the church took over Spain, they murdered and tortured and robbed Muslims and Jews of their properties. The Royalty filled their purses with stolen and looted material, actually molesting the economy left from the society where Muslms and Christians and Jews lived together. A great many Jews moved to Istanbul, under the protection of the Ottomans, from your beloved, peace loving church. Spain never recovered completely under the hand of Church debauchery, and no other faith was allowed to exist but that of the Church. Interesting? Non-Muslims seeking protection under the Ottomans, who also protected the Greek Orthodoxy from Church debauchery. Your claims are hardly tenable, given facts, and not missionary exaggerations.
Also, in relation to the general experience of populations placed under Muslim rule, "Most conversions were voluntary and happened for a number of different reasons. However, forced conversion did play a key role in some later periods of Islamic history, mostly in the 12th century under the Almohad dynasty of North Africa and al-Andalus as well as in Persia where Shi'a Islam is dominant." (Wikipedia)
Untenable. Since Islam was already well established by the 12th century, it would be juvenile to try and claim that a short lived fanatical regime (Almohad) in an isolated part of the world was the key for Islam to be spread. SOunds like the entry in wikpedia smells of missionary chicanery. Furthermore, the Shia were also a lesser power in the grand scheme of things, and they were isolated to their part of the world. Your claim is either based upon ignorance, or deception. I can hardly believe you were a Muslim making these huge blunders. Your view is nearly verbatim from the standard missionary handbook.
"Bernard Lewis states: This would called "appealing to authority". This is a fallacy under two conditions: 1) The authority is not an authority on the topic they are being used to prove, and 2), the topic is highly charged such that many experts can be found who state something contrary to what is being presented. In other words, it is not hard to show Brenard Lewis is a propoganda machine of Zionisn, and a neo-con (this is factual) and that a great deal of his work, especially lately, is highly motivated by politics and helping to rally support for the Neocon dream. And it is not hrad for me to show the works of other credible historians who say otherwise to what you quoted, For now, I hope you will directly reply to what I have given you, and not deflect.
No, we cannot undo past history with sophistry and with the work of pro-Zionist historians. I agree with you. We muist look at what did take place, instead of trying to change it in order to rally suport for US forgien policy, and to make missionary work easier. The first step is stepping up to the facts that did take place in order to critically look at the problems with pro western charged media and Orientalism. I know nothing of semantics. Please point out the use of sematics?
I would say that you are aither a liar, or very ignorant of Islam. You stated you were a Muslims. As far as establishing truth....we have a saying. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. So far, your contribution to a serious discussion has seemed disingenuous. What else would you expect people to think?
I think you are a liar. That's what your contributions tell me. If you were not making a claim of being Muslim, I would think you were just extremely ignorant. No longer can you be given the benefit of doubt. Regardless, this is the second time I have given you substance. The first time you "handwaved" you way through it (not very impressive given your claims and bragging of being rational), and then made another charge. Lets see what kind of substance you will give at my second attempt to have a rational discussion. Hope This Helps.
------------- A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah http://www.sunnipath.com http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/ http://www.pt-go.com/ |
Posted By: Hanan
Date Posted: 25 October 2006 at 6:26am
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muslim-mother wrote: the majority of westerns i have met in other forums, say that islam is a violent religion ... Sister, could it be possible that you made a simple error and actually meant to write: �the majority of westerns i have met in other forums, say that Christianity is a violent religion ��?The reason I�m asking is this: the Christian bible contains more factual tales of violence, cruelty and perversion than any Hollywood producer could ever make up. Throughout history, Christians have slaughtered countless Christians and non-Christians in the name of their religion - Christianity. Christians have committed genocides, and the Holocaust, with the endorsement of their Christian religious and political leaders. Christians place missionaries in many non-Christian regions of the world to convert, and if unsuccessful, to kill non-Christians. Christians have consistantly voted for, and elected, violent Christian leaders. In recent history, and presently, Christians sanction and even encourage genocide - as well as the killings of non-Christians by other non-Christians. Presently, Christians are engaged in the killing of hundreds of thousands of non-Christians in order to force Christian ideologies on them. It is fair to say that Christianity is a violent religion. I therefore can hardly believe that you have been on other forums in which Islam has been described as being violent. If these sites actually exist then they must have been created by Christians who are by nature very skilled liars in addition to being very violent because Christianity is a violent religion. Their behavior is sanctioned by their religious and political leaders. A Christian can easily be identified, not by his/her skin color or manner of dress/head garb, but by his/her violent nature, hate-filled manner of speech and cruel actions. Sister, I therefore conclude that you made an error in your original statement. Peace, Hanan |
Posted By: Fidel
Date Posted: 25 October 2006 at 12:48pm
| Yep, I am lying. I think I am in good company though, because you are all bending over backwards to present Islam's history in a false light for propaganda purposes. I see no difference. Lies are lies. Islam is demonic in origin. (This isn't a lie) |
Posted By: Aisha Muslima
Date Posted: 25 October 2006 at 2:07pm
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well Fidel i got news for you, Islam is not a violent religion and you ruinning ur christianny image! How? By being a...how can i said that more nicely.....discrimminate, liar, trouble maker, closing mind,,,i could add more thing but it not very nice words. Not all christiany peoples are like that unfortunnly peoples who act like you do, ruin them, you give them a bad image,a bad reputation. If you not interessted to know and learn more about the truth Islam, leave! We dont want trouble maker making up lies. ------------- Aisha Muslima |
Posted By: ZEA J
Date Posted: 25 October 2006 at 2:20pm
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From now on, NO one will ever believe a word you speak on this forum. You have lost the little respect you had. ------------- "You will never attain piety and righteousness,(and eventually paradise)until you spend of that which you love."(Al-Imran:92) |
Posted By: Andalus
Date Posted: 25 October 2006 at 5:47pm
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Is this tautological dribble the best you can put forth? You could not even address a single point? You are a waste of time. And now the forum knows you are a waste of time. Kindest Regards ------------- A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah http://www.sunnipath.com http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/ http://www.pt-go.com/ |
Posted By: Hanan
Date Posted: 25 October 2006 at 9:22pm
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Fidel admits: "Yep, I am lying." Now, wasn't that easy? It always makes me chuckle when another one of them bits the dust Fidel then, inpired by his sulfuric friend, wrote: "I think I am in good company though, because you are all bending over backwards to present Islam's history in a false light for propaganda purposes." You are not in MY company, and Muslims are not bending backwards. We bend forward to bow in prayer. You just had to embarass yourself one more time, didn't you? Oh how much would your mother weep if she knew. |
Posted By: Andalus
Date Posted: 25 October 2006 at 10:48pm
He says that Islam is of "demonic" origins, yet he is here as a liar to mislead. If I am not mistaken, this is an art of Satan. Saul of Tarsus gave a "blank check" (with a popular interpretation of his letters) to missionaries to lie. As long as the lie brings about converts, then how can it (the lie) really be bad. Now that we know he is a liar, and was unable to stand up to scrutiny, or back his claims, we know better than to waste our time with him/her.
------------- A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah http://www.sunnipath.com http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/ http://www.pt-go.com/ |
Posted By: Angel
Date Posted: 25 October 2006 at 11:14pm
Your whole post is literally out of line, I hope you will get pulled up by Admin and the moderators on it like those who say islam is a violent religion! to say christains are liars by nature is dispeccable. Yes Christians have been violent, and yes muslims have too, and then we have shieks who throw remarks about those who dress immodestly to a piece of meat, refer to my post in asia pacific - not very nice! what christian/s has said the likes of the that??? Christianity isn't violent islam is not violent, it is the people! but then when you read stuff it is there. As for islam well, cutting people's hands or feet for stealing is violent and unnecessary! so please islam is not all sweaky clean Who in their right mind will cut a person's hand or feet for stealing ??? Giving floggings (100) for adultery is violent but is it in the law of islam, so tell me where islam is not violent?? yes yes i know I there will be the usual justifications for it but the bottom line it is violent. -------------  ~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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Posted By: Hanan
Date Posted: 26 October 2006 at 9:21am
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Your whole post is literally out of line, my post appears out of line on your computer? How is that my fault? I hope you will get pulled up by Admin and the moderators on it like those who say islam is a violent religion! � pulled up from where? I�m not down there with the likes of you in the stinky pit of hate and murderous rage against non-Christians! At this very moment there are many - too many, in my opinion - of you here on this very forum who are allowed to continue to lie and say that Islam is violent. to say christains are liars by nature is dispeccable. I assume you were trying to write �despicable�? Well, aren�t Christians liars? I have met very few Christians, personally (a co-worker) and on this forum (Angela), who have not regurgitated the lies they�ve been indoctrinated with by their leaders. You must realize that most of you practice the wrong kind of Christianity. Yes Christians have been violent, and yes muslims have too, � and here is another Christian lie, this time by omission! Your sentence must read: �Christians have been AND STILL ARE violent� And why did you have to add that bit about Muslims? Are you saying that Christians are violent because Muslims are violent, and that Christians therefore are justified to continue to commit violence? and then we have shieks who throw remarks about those who dress immodestly to a piece of meat, refer to my post in asia pacific � I don�t know what the Sheiks (note the correct spelling) said and I�m certainly not going to refer to some diatribe you may have posted somewhere. We Muslims have personal opinions and I suggest that you get used to the fact that we don�t feel the need to get permission from you before we voice it. I personally compare the half-naked Christians who constantly offend my sense of decency, to meat hanging in the display windows of butcher shops, enticing customers to "get a piece." what christian/s has said the likes of the that??? You really don�t need me to refresh your memory about what Christians have said and are saying about Muslims, do you? Christianity isn't violent islam is not violent, it is the people! There are more references to violence in the Christian bible than in any other religious literature! As for islam well, cutting people's hands or feet for stealing is violent and unnecessary! You MUST provide me with the sources of such allegations, otherwise I assume that you�re just making up another lie. In your Christian opinion, what should the punishment be? Perhaps, a thief should be imprisoned for an undetermined amount of time (without disclosing his whereabouts), and while in captivity he should be mistreated, tortured, humiliated and mutilated? Or maybe he should be forced to watch his daughter being raped? so please islam is not all sweaky clean Who in their right mind will cut a person's hand or feet for stealing ??? Giving floggings (100) for adultery is violent but is it in the law of islam, By implying that one who cut�s off a hand or foot of a thief is not in his/her right mind, you are trying to justify the atrocities committed by your Christian brothers who have torn innocent people to pieces by chaining them to their trucks and dragging them down the road, who have mutilated and hanged people from trees in their own front yards, who have killed the civilian population of an entire village, who have raped, killed and sodomized defenseless men and women! so tell me where islam is not violent?? Didn�t you just declare that Islam is NOT violent, but the people are? (Christianity isn't violent islam is not violent, it is the people!) Without realizing it, you�ve just exposed yourself as the liar I knew you to be. Welcome to the �Christian Liars Club.� Make room for your sister, Fidel.yes yes i know I there will be the usual justifications for it but the bottom line it is violent. No, no - no justifications from me. I don�t even know what I should justify. There is nothing your kind hates more than to have Muslims turn the tables on them and expose your insane hatred for Islam and Muslims. Get a life. Sheila. You could start by enrolling in English-101. |
Posted By: Angel
Date Posted: 26 October 2006 at 10:49am
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don't act st**id!
� pulled up from where? I�m not down there with the likes of you in the stinky pit of hate and murderous rage against non-Christians! At this very moment there are many - too many, in my opinion - of you here on this very forum who are allowed to continue to lie and say that Islam is violent. FYI, i'm not christian! and your remark is just hate filled! I never lied either for that matter, if you are muslims then you know the law, do you need a non muslim to tell the laws? of course not.
I assume you were trying to write �despicable�? yes, thanks for the correct spelling
And there aren't muslims who have been indoctrinated and practiced wrong interpretations of islam right???
� and here is another Christian lie, this time by omission! Your sentence must read: �Christians have been AND STILL ARE violent� And why did you have to add that bit about Muslims? because what i see it is true. In Durfur muslims attack muslims. In Iraq the insurgents kill muslim civilian and police to.
No!
I don�t know what the Sheiks (note the correct spelling) said and I�m certainly not going to refer to some diatribe you may have posted somewhere. We Muslims have personal opinions and I suggest that you get used to the fact that we don�t feel the need to get permission from you before we voice it. I personally compare the half-naked Christians who constantly offend my sense of decency, to meat hanging in the display windows of butcher shops, enticing customers to "get a piece." Your muslims sister disagree with you! but then again they KNOW what is going on! Anyway it was also refered to muslim women.
You really don�t need me to refresh your memory about what Christians have said and are saying about Muslims, do you? go ahead refresh me.
There are more references to violence in the Christian bible than in any other religious literature! I'm not excusing one or the other whether one has more references or not.
You MUST provide me with the sources of such allegations, otherwise I assume that you�re just making up another lie. Hanan, if you know your laws, you do not need a non muslim to show you, do you really need that and be embarrassed?. If want me to get some thing then you'll have to give me time.
Your mistake Hanan, is assuming that non muslims here are Christian.
By implying that one who cut�s off a hand or foot of a thief is not in his/her right mind, you are trying to justify the atrocities committed by your Christian brothers who have torn innocent people to pieces by chaining them to their trucks and dragging them down the road, who have mutilated and hanged people from trees in their own front yards, who have killed the civilian population of an entire village, who have raped, killed and sodomized defenseless men and women! Honestly Hanan!! NO I am not trying to justify anything.
Didn�t you just declare that Islam is NOT violent, but the people are? Hanan, I am NOT a liar, those who know me well know this of me. What i said was in 2 different context. There are those who say christianity or islam or whatever religion is not violent but the people. And then there is what is said in law, and i used islamic law (since islam is the topic) and stealing and flogging as an example as it was the easiest and simplist for me at the time. I showed that there IS violence in islam (leaving aside any sayings as i don't have them at my disposable right now) . In nowhere have i lied or contradicted myself.
yes yes i know I there will be the usual justifications for it but the bottom line it is violent. No, no - no justifications from me. I don�t even know what I should justify. There is nothing your kind hates more than to have Muslims turn the tables on them and expose your insane hatred for Islam and Muslims. Get a life. Sheila. You could start by enrolling in English-101. Your attitude speaks for itself but then again you mentioned you don't care about others feelings just your own. I don't have a hatred towards islam and muslims, you are simpling lying and i detest that you or anyone else that implies so! ------------- ~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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Posted By: Hanan
Date Posted: 26 October 2006 at 11:25am
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I'm sure that YOU and your kind believe that whatever you just wrote should be viewed as "reply" or maybe even as "letting Hanan have it and telling her what's what." Let me see if I can't say it simpler so that even you can understand: You wrote, "Christianity isn't violent islam is not violent, it is the people ..." meaning that Islam is NOT violent, right? BUT! later you slipped up and said, "Giving floggings (100) for adultery is violent but is it in the law of islam, so tell me where islam is not violent??" This clearly negates your previous "statement" that Islam is NOT violent. Are you with me so far? And then you again write: "but the bottom line it is violent" declaring, obvious to everyone, that Islam is violent. End of Discussion! |
Posted By: Angel
Date Posted: 26 October 2006 at 11:56am
YOU delibrately misunderstand me. You feel like you have to be the high and mighty person thinking that you are never wrong! and that you must expose people. You are taking things out of context. I explained to you but you don't care. AND I never said islam is violent!!!! never have I said that anywhere in my years of being here! even with certain aspects i see as violent and questioned it "Giving floggings (100) for adultery is violent but is it in the law of islam, so tell me where islam is not violent??. I have mentioned that there are things that are violent like cutting hands or feet for stealing or flogging for adultery! that is volience and that is what i meant by but that is the bottom line it is violent. SO please do me the favour stop your accusations! ------------- ~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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Posted By: Fidel
Date Posted: 26 October 2006 at 12:18pm
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If you wonder why the people of formerly Christian countries converted to Islam: read below, it is like something out the Godfather movies. Imagine these coming to your town...scary... Questions to reflect on: a)Is Islam's laws violent? b)Was Muhammad violent? Here is what the Hadith say: The Book Pertaining to Punishments Prescribed by Islam (Kitab Al-Hudud) 'A'isha reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) cut off the hand of a thief for a quarter of a dinar rid upwards. Chapter 3: PRESCRIBED PUNISHMENT FOR AN ADULTERER AND AN ADULTERESS 'Ubada b. as-Samit reported: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Receive (teaching) from me, receive (teaching) from me. Allah has ordained a way for those (women). When an unmarried male commits adultery with an unmarried female (they should receive) one hundred lashes and banishment for one year. And in case of married male committing adultery with a married female, they shall receive one hundred lashes and be stoned to death. Jabir b. Samura reported: As he was being brought to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) I saw Ma'iz b. Malik-a short-statured person with strong sinews, having no cloak around him. He bore witness against his own self four times that he had committed adultery, whereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Perhaps (you kissed her or embraced her). He said: No. by God, one deviating (from the path of virtue) has committed adultery. He then got him stoned (to death), and then delivered the address: Behold, as we set out for Jihad in the cause of Allah, one of you lagged behind and shrieked like the bleating of a male goat, and gave a small quantity of milk. By Allah, in case I get hold of him, I shall certainly punish him. 'Abdullah b. Buraida reported on the authority of his father that Ma'iz b. Malik al-Aslami came to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and said: Allah's Messenger, I have wronged myself; I have committed adultery and I earnestly desire that you should purify me. He turned him away. On the following day, he (Ma'iz) again came to him and said: Allah's Messenger, I have committed adultery. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) turned him away for the second time, and sent him to his people saying: Do you know if there is anything wrong with his mind. They denied of any such thing in him and said: We do not know him but as a wise good man among us, so far as we can judge. He (Ma'iz) came for the third time, and he (the Holy Prophet) sent him as he had done before. He asked about him and they informed him that there was nothing wrong with him or with his mind. When it was the fourth time, a ditch was dug for him and he (the Holy Prophet) pronounced judg- ment about him and he (I love the unintentionally ironic juxtaposition of "Holy" and the death penalty. Also, the instruction to be "gentle" is bizarre!) Muhammad, ever one for religious tolerance: Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57: Narrated 'Ikrima: Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to 'Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn 'Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's Apostle forbade it, saying, 'Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire).' I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'" Narrated Abu Burda: The Prophet then sent Mu'adh bin Jabal after him and when Mu'adh reached him, he spread out a cushion for him and requested him to get down (and sit on the cushion). Behold: There was a fettered man beside Abu Muisa. Mu'adh asked, "Who is this (man)?" Abu Muisa said, "He was a Jew and became a Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism." Then Abu Muisa requested Mu'adh to sit down but Mu'adh said, "I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and His Apostle (for such cases) and repeated it thrice. Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed. Abu Musa added, "Then we discussed the night prayers and one of us said, 'I pray and sleep, and I hope that Allah will reward me for my sleep as well as for my prayers.'"
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Posted By: Andalus
Date Posted: 26 October 2006 at 6:51pm
I noticed you were unable to directly reply to my discussion with you about yoru claims. You simply admited you were a liar. And then accused my faith of being demonic. Now you are trying to "bait" and obfuscate the thread so that it no longer holds to be a discussion about your thoughts on Islam, but a circus, a fools charade so that you can continue making outrageous claims and then not actually back your claims up. You are trying to argue that lands that were conquered by Muslims had mass forced conversions. I gave you plenty of material to deal with. You igored it. Now you want to put up narratives about the view of adultery in Islam, as a means to show that Christians were masses converted. Not only is such a claim ignorant, and baseless, but you have no intention on presenting a serious dsicussion, you only wish to make claims, and like this case, back it up with irrelevant material, a red herring. Consider this your final warning. You have been treated fair, and have been given detailed, and rational replies to your problems, but you have, at every corner, obfuscated, and handwaved your way through them. That way, you try and present another claim with anothe rred herring that is irrelevant to the claim. You have shown yourself to be a coward and a liar (you seem tobe proud of being a liar, and Paul would concur!) If you continue your rpesent course, you will not get another warning. This thread is now closed.
------------- A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah http://www.sunnipath.com http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/ http://www.pt-go.com/ |