It is more evident to me that I perhaps suffer from a crisis of faith, which has lead me to question my own religion. I have been Muslim for about 6 years now and through the years of my study of Islam it appears that in the year 2006 religious confidence has diminished. It seems that I see Islam (as opposed to how I saw it the first time I converted) the same as I see Judaism and Christianity or like the many tens of thousands of other religions. Like so many of you here believe I am perhaps a hypocrite. In some way the comment made by the moderator Mishmish was perhaps true. How can any true observant person be a Muslim if he/she questions the Word of God.

Perhaps subconsciously I do question it. Not because of clarity but because of how its socially interpreted. There is no universal interpretation of the Qur'an that is consistent enough for me to feel confident in. Of course there is, in unison the agreement of the simplistic beliefs however in other areas of interest there are some difference. Among some of my inquiries I feel that Islam is too much intertwined in a culture that is not like my own. For instance the Arabization of Islam. Many Linguist who have mastered Arabic and who are also theologians further extend their claims in the supremacy of the Arabic language by referring from the Hadith as mentioning that "Arabic is the Language of the Angels."

I too also have heard that in the Empyrean, Arabic is the language spoken. The Funny thing about this is that this is similar to what the Jewish Sages have spoken about the Torah. Similar toJudaism about the creation of Angels the Angels were created from the Shekinah or Glory from God. In Islam Angels were created from light--or Nur. I feel that if there is some great distinction within this monotheistic faith there must exist a large gap that exist between itself and from the entire religions on the face of this planet. However as reality notes there isn't.

I feel greatly the sense of isolation between myself and a large group of Muslims because my experience shave lead me to feel this way. First off, the large majority of influential Muslims support their cultures of choice. Not once did I ever see Muslims from any reputable organization come into the African-American community or involve themselves publicly, with any troubled youth nor any inmates in the prison system. I have found much discrimination, not once, not twice, not three times, but multiple times. It is true people have more of an influence on people that scripture has. If you don't believe me then we can find evidence in the actions of several men who drove planes in buildings on 9/11. Of course the Jews did it though right?

I have tried numerous times forcefully tried to reconcile myself with the community and even to the greater extent tried to reconcile the Muslim community with itself. Largely none of you wish to involve yourselves in none of my topics. If one goes back I have posted numerous positive subjects which many of us can be involved in. Of course I get the occasional response of: "Sometimes people don't know what to say" or "Sometimes people show their agreement with what you say by their lack of a response." However in the same instance would automatically input their feelings when we discuss issues with the United States or the War in Iraq or the cartoons.

Goodness here and in the world abroad is not cherished nor "out of the box" thinking is. As I was told not by just the moderators Rami and Peacemaker, but by others that, my ideas and thoughts seen as divisive towards others who are genuinely seeking Islam. So in other words, my logical ideas are basically dangerous which could lead others way basically. However blind as they are do not see that ther comments made against my country and made against so-called Western Muslim would drive away other Muslims.

I extend an apology to all those who see me as a hypocrite. Perhpas I am and perhaps I serve more than anyone else to serve in eternal damnation. You know I have done nothing but try to be the best human being as I can. The one thing I totally dislike about the Muslim community are the fake, conditional gestures. I do not call a Muslim my brother but all human beings because we live in a brotherhood and sisterhood within each other as a species. Unfortunately we have come to the point that we begin to be exclusive to each other because of religious/social influence. I love the peaceful gesture of "As'Salaamu Alaikum" but am tired of the conditional; behavior of Muslims who say to me "I say this as your sister because Allah in the Qur'an has told me so."

So basically if you were to give advice to your brother or sister of blood you will say "I am telling you this because my momma told me" rather saying "I'm telling you this because I sincerely care about your well being." I find the former rather parroting, and insincere. We should be welcoming to all people regardless of race, religion, sexual orientation. That is why I firmly believe that we humans will continuously suffer in ignorance of each other the more we divide ourselves and exclude ourselves.

In regards to Heaven and Hell I firmly believe in their existence however I believe in the opposite of what it is socially thought as. God being so great I cannot first comprehend suffering nor bliss since we humans cannot truthfully imagine the physical sensation of Heaven and Hell. What is the need of boiling hot water poured in the mouth of a liar when the soul is farther away from his Maker? I make a similar argument in my case. I suffer my great loss because my mother is not here and I suffer everyday she is not here with me. So can you imagine the soul that is condemned by his maker? The absence of God's love is the greatest torment so there is no need for fire and boiling water for if God tuns away from you there is no greater pain. If God loves you this is the ultimate bliss because then, you come into the boosom of God's infinity and are one with him.

I can say the only reason why I am still Muslim is the fear that I am wrong.......If I didn't have this fear I would traverse to my original belief, which was a journeyman for God. I cannot in my heart of hearts feel the same way an orthodox Muslim does in viewing people of other faiths. I cannot belief that God would literally hate something in compared to him a microscopic organism, just because they have a religion something in the world so small. I tend to think God made us in many shapes, forms and colors and with many religions for the purpose of involvement with each other as a species knowing that with our growing intelligence it too, can be used to be divisivse, hateful, and spiteful.

I understand that my beliefs ar eperhaps shocking or what not and I expect not much of a response here but this is the honest truth. Everyday I ask God to forgive me if I am wrong but I sincerely feel this way. I have been judged here anyway and never once feel any spiritual connection with any Muslims here. Many of you love to compare my age but at least I show limited intelligence enough to respect people of other faiths, something I find extraordinarily hard for other Muslims to practice. Regardless what I said previously here my faith in God has not been shaken but reminaed firm but I'm should some ignorant fool would reply with an ignorant comment base don what I say here.

I hope what I say here will sink in to the other Muslims in how the are towards so-called "Western Muslims." It is important to know that we as people do in fact make a differenc ein each others lives and its important to have a welcoming attitude to people of all backgrounds. If I'm a hypocrite because I love my fellow brother and sister in my human species then I'm guilty as charged. I would also like to thank Abeer23 for this spiritual ressurection, without her ignorant comments in the other section this would not have been possible. I would like to thank the Moderators and other members for for their comments because it showed me how true the nature of the Muslim community is, today. But perhaps through  the hurtful gestures of others we can learn something.... Since respect here is rare, I'm sure the moderators will evetually close this......Regardless I'm glad I said it here.

Brother Israfil,

I am in pain that you are going through this crisis. I would like to say that I know and we all know that you are not a hypocrite.

Brother, I was speaking about this to a friend of mine who knows very very well religion. He said we are all different and when Islam is introduced to a country, people embrace it but they still have their cultures, their traditions, some good, some bad.

You will find conservative people among the Muslim community and you will find liberal people. I have also taken the risk to be treated as a hypocrite. I said I was a leftist. I love travelling and meeting people from all races and cultures. I speak a few languages.

Some other people are different and there may be things about me that you will dislike or even hate, but it does not mean that islam is bad. Your crisis is not a religious one, it is about the society. I think this is a political crisis.

I am going through it all the time. Brother, I have suffered from racism a lot and so I know what you can feel about the segregation of the Afro-American community, even by Muslims or Arabs.

You can read millions of books and this is good, but I invite you brother to go travelling to Arab countries. You will see that it has nothing to do with life in the US.

Brother, I got lost when I was in Damascus. I was going on the top of the town to see the whole of Damascus. On my way down, I spoke with some students who came there to learn Arabic. There was an Arab, and African from Senegal and some other nationalities. MashAllah, we spoke and we were all brothers (and sister;-)

I would like also to go to Mali because they are very good Muslims and very good people!! If you go to North-Africa, there is a bit of racism but I bet you that you will tell me, sister, I went there and made so many friends. Especially when they see you embraced Islam.

I am aware of the situation of the Afro-American in the US and what happened yesterday is outrageous!!!! I hope that the rest of the community will help them but I doubt that....unfortunately.

Brother, if you were to be Muslim for the Muslims, you would probably leave Islam. But do not let social stupidities and racism and traditions let you down.

Brother, I like socialism, I will never throw a stone to anyone whether they are gay or not (only Israelis, I told you you may not like everything about me;-), I may do things that conservative people do not like.

Well, I am not going to let anyone tell me if I am an hypocrite or not.

Allah Knows Best and Allah Loves you, otherwise, he would not have let you found The Message.

Salam brother and remember that I am here for you, ALWAYS.

Muslima

Israfil wrote: were to give advice to your brother or sister of blood you will say "I am telling you this because my momma told me" rather saying "I'm telling you this because I sincerely care about your well being." I find the former rather parroting, and insincere. We should be welcoming to all people regardless of race, religion, sexual orientation. That is why I firmly believe that we humans will continuously suffer in ignorance of each other the more we divide ourselves and exclude ourselves.

Amen.

I say Amen to that. I appreciate the comment made by those who've responded here. There is much work on my part but it is just frustrating to me because the influence of mankind is very great and there is so much tormeent in the world.

I remember a case where my neice and I were walking on the strip in the city of Long Beach California, and these two ladies were handing out these papers. Upon reading the papers it was basically proseltyzing to convert to being a Baptist Christian. These ladies suddenly attacked my neice after she told them she didn't follow a Christian faith.

My neice knowing that I have SOME knowledge of religion came to me for help and the ladies had started on me like Bees to an attacker. Basically it boiled down to if I don't believe as they do God will reject me in the end. As I have seen here there is so much judgement as there is in the real world. People maks their judgement by saying "I'm telling you the word of God."

That is the ultimate deception!

Perhaps there is a universal law unknowing to the human mind that says that we humans have to be of one religious faith. Perhaps. However according to the Qur'an God could have lead everyone to the same path. But he chose not to. I believe that the same truth is apparent to me today.

We as humans have different paths in life and we must follow them but I truly feel that these minute paths all end up ion the same direction. Based on "THE WORD OF ALLAH" let me ask the people of the forum this:

Based on the theology of the Qur'an please judge accordingly:

In the court of God who would God likely condemn

1) Buddhist Monk

2) Catholic Priest

3) Wiccan

4) Hindu

5) Jew

6) Muslim

I can tell you from this list whom God would most likely choose. If in your mind your choice would be Hindu, the question is why? If such a Hindu is guilty for peacefully practicing his/her religion what is their crime? worship? Should we judge on the internal beliefs or be content with what we see from the external?

This is my point....

The intent of the person is perhaps the most profound evidence of truth that we can come up with. Sadly, what people internalize as their beliefs cannot be seen by the world. I believe that since we do not know the true intent of the individual God's word or not we should not make any inclination towards judgement despite in the face of absolute so-called blasphemy.

I have a firm belief that God is the author of all that exist and is the designer of all that actively moves and functions. With this in mind perhaps God is creating a work of art in the making--literally. In my 24 years of young life from my adolescence, to my adult life now I have seen so many beautiful people.

So many words and so many truths proves hard for me to sometimes sustain my faith.

DavidC, this is exactly what I was thinking about!

I went to see the derviched in Istanbul and I read a book but this is in French Israfil, about a reverted Muslim who was head of Phylosophy deaprtment in the most prestigious research centre in france.

Thsi is a shame I do not have a translation but she speaks about the wheel for monotheist religions.

I also agree with what Annie said, maybe you need to concentrate on your personal relationsip with God. let me know if you want the title of that book Israfil.

Salam brother

Israfil wrote: I say Amen to that. I appreciate the comment made by those who've responded here. There is much work on my part but it is just frustrating to me because the influence of mankind is very great and there is so much tormeent in the world.

Sometimes you need to shut out the world and its influence on you.  I know it's hard.

Israfil wrote: I remember a case where my neice and I were walking on the strip in the city of Long Beach California, and these two ladies were handing out these papers. Upon reading the papers it was basically proseltyzing to convert to being a Baptist Christian. These ladies suddenly attacked my neice after she told them she didn't follow a Christian faith. My neice knowing that I have SOME knowledge of religion came to me for help and the ladies had started on me like Bees to an attacker. Basically it boiled down to if I don't believe as they do God will reject me in the end. As I have seen here there is so much judgement as there is in the real world. People maks their judgement by saying "I'm telling you the word of God."

Welcome to the club.  The Baptists would probably condemn me too. Muslims condemn me.  Jews condemn me.   Look to the New Testament.  What does Jesus say?

All religions are exclusionary in many respects.  They all claim to have the answers.  Most of them claim to be the only religion.

Israfil wrote: That is the ultimate deception! Perhaps there is a universal law unknowing to the human mind that says that we humans have to be of one religious faith. Perhaps. However according to the Qur'an God could have lead everyone to the same path. But he chose not to. I believe that the same truth is apparent to me today.

I believe that all religions have some truth in them.  You can compare them.  The basics are the ten commandments.  Everyone has a choice.  God gave us choices.  Sure, God could have lead everyone to the same path, and I think that He has, but He has given us the choice.  If we didn't have choices, we would be robots.  We would follow God and love God because He made us do that, but I don't believe that God wants people who follow Him like that.  Do you?

Israfil wrote: We as humans have different paths in life and we must follow them but I truly feel that these minute paths all end up ion the same direction. Based on "THE WORD OF ALLAH" let me ask the people of the forum this: Based on the theology of the Qur'an please judge accordingly: In the court of God who would God likely condemn 1) Buddhist Monk 2) Catholic Priest 3) Wiccan 4) Hindu 5) Jew 6) Muslim

From what I know of the Qur'an,  Allah would condemn them all except the Muslims who follow Muhammad.

Israfil wrote: I can tell you from this list whom God would most likely choose. If in your mind your choice would be Hindu, the question is why? If such a Hindu is guilty for peacefully practicing his/her religion what is their crime? worship? Should we judge on the internal beliefs or be content with what we see from the external?

Hindu's worship many gods.  If there is only one God, then we must not worship many gods.  God makes the rules and we do not.

Israfil wrote: This is my point.... The intent of the person is perhaps the most profound evidence of truth that we can come up with. Sadly, what people internalize as their beliefs cannot be seen by the world. I believe that since we do not know the true intent of the individual God's word or not we should not make any inclination towards judgement despite in the face of absolute so-called blasphemy.

I believe that God is the final judge and we cannot judge for Him.  Also, I believe that even though we see good people in the world and we wonder how God could condemn them, we are judging by the rules of men and not the rules set by God.  We must leave this up to God and treat everyone with respect and leave the rest to God.  We cannot judge.  Only God judges.

Israfil wrote: I have a firm belief that God is the author of all that exist and is the designer of all that actively moves and functions. With this in mind perhaps God is creating a work of art in the making--literally. In my 24 years of young life from my adolescence, to my adult life now I have seen so many beautiful people.

Yes, indeed, Israfil and believe it or not many of them are atheists and agnostics.

So many words and so many truths proves hard for me to sometimes sustain my faith.[/QUOTE]

Keep your faith in God and let Him take care of the rest.

Annie

Dear Israfil,

The most important event in your life took place when you found God Almighty and your Imaan.

You have the spiritual ladder with you, brother. Reach the heights.   

Salaam Alaikum & Best Wishes

BMZ 

DavidC wrote: I would say God would most likely condemn the Wiccan, as that is a religion based on making God serve the will of man.  Definitely bassackwards. Second would be the Buddhist, who is full of good works but without any relationship to God. Since Hinduism is not an single religion it really does not fit the premise very well.

Haha, we're just simple people having a religious discussion.  This isn't a seminary or anything, DavidC!

I understand what you are talking about, Israfil.  I'm a big believer in people being accepted for "who" they are, rather than "what" they are.  As you know from our now closed thread on homosexuality, my daughter is a lesbian.  And you know how much I love her, unconditionally love her.  My Church believes homosexuals will go to Heaven just like everyone else who follows the teachings of God.  And so that means God's love for us is unconditional too.  God is very merciful and just.  He does not wish for any of his creation to go to Hell.  Many people do not like Catholics at all...can you believe it!?  It breaks my heart because of the many misconceptions and lies against my Church.  So I know what you feel about being left out or disregarded at times.

I agree with Annie that you should take some time to reflect and think and be silent.  There is a scripture verse which I love.  It is "Be still and know that I am God."  He wants us to listen to him for guidance.

I will remember you in my prayers....that you may find true peace and joy in your life, for which you are searching.

Peace be with you......

Hi,

   I think I need to contribute something here to share what my thoughts are... I believed that everyone at their point in time in his/ her life have come to a crisis to the Big Question about the Existence of God.....that question that brought us to where we are right now... whether we get the answer to that Very Question & where it lead us depend on our own rational in depth study of every answer we had and choose the course of direction and are responsible to the very action that we chose.

   I've been in this forum for quite sometimes now reading about the many interesting post here and sometime get glued for hours reading. I've those many people here as a passive member just love being here reading.

I love reading post like brother bmzsp always giving a very clear straight answer "not beating around the bush" which by the way is my countrymen... hehehe...Sister Angela being LSD trying to accomodate and being very nice using nicest word to agree/disagree with everyone....Its tough being the nicest one aint it, it's tough to be though not here but in real world...hehehe. AnnieTwo trying to save us all through Salvation & by doing so intentionally or otherwise she create more question to the question rather then answer which inturn cause more confusion and sis dont you think its very obvious you are trying to take advantage of our brother that is in crisis...Sister Patty having trying to clear the misconception about Catholic never seem to comes up with a definitive answer & create more misconception... Brother Davidc giving Seminary with available chance got a Gospel thumper nice work bro... should try harder though... Ps:- to all Christian brother/sister do you think people of the world need to be save & do you think of all the people of the world Muslim are top in the list need to be "SAVE"? Just a thought. Sister Mishmish which almost being the wisest giving good answer to every question which I think deserved credit for your effort sis...And that's lead me to last but not least brother Israfil trying to accomodate all religion putting it in one basket trying to make it right.... I've been there & it a very difficult task don't you think? And also not forgetting to all other members not mention which is by the way very nice and great people...we can learn from each other. And as you know learning is a journey itself till the end of time.

   Here's the difference point of view I have....just to tickle our mind a little...What if after asking ourself the Big Question and we come to a conclusion and very sure that we've got the RIGHT Answer to this very Question.... That means to say we have reach the end of the journey "Jihad" about Questioning God Existence & thus follow what commanded by God written in the Scripture. Should it not then be our responsibility to follow whatever is written and commanded in the Scripture and if we dont after a very long struggle, "in depth study" to whatever Religion we are into, dont it be that we are accountable to our own action. If not all Almost everyone here have made the decision to be in the faith of their own choosing, as for you  my brother Israfil I think your journey has not end to which I think you need to sit and think deep through again as to which Religion fit best for you... They have made their choice & stand firm to their very own belief & eventually you too my Brother. Just my thought, not sure if this of any help. Thanks

Regards

Annie,

Thanks for your words of wisdom and your moral suppot extended to brother Israfil.

I have only a few comments:

From you: "Welcome to the club.  The Baptists would probably condemn me too. Muslims condemn me.  Jews condemn me.   Look to the New Testament.  What does Jesus say?"

Jesus said, "For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."

Jesus also said, "But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgement for every careless word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned."

Thus according to Jesus, people shall have to achieve a high level of righteousness. That is the key word here. No righteousness, no entry to heaven. The second part is self-explanatory.

From you to Israfil: "Keep your faith in God and let Him take care of the rest."

That was really beautiful.

God Almighty knows our weaknesses but yet is ready to forgive and still gives people a chance to turn to Him and repent sincerely, which is a prelude to a peaceful world one day.

ABS67,

Assalaam Alaikum,

Thanks for the compliments and I am glad to see a fellow Singaporean here.

Best Regards

BMZ

Israfil wrote: It is more evident to me that I perhaps suffer from a crisis of faith, which has lead me to question my own religion. I have been Muslim for about 6 years now and through the years of my study of Islam it appears that in the year 2006 religious confidence has diminished. It seems that I see Islam (as opposed to how I saw it the first time I converted) the same as I see Judaism and Christianity or like the many tens of thousands of other religions. Like so many of you here believe I am perhaps a hypocrite. In some way the comment made by the moderator Mishmish was perhaps true. How can any true observant person be a Muslim if he/she questions the Word of God. Perhaps subconsciously I do question it. Not because of clarity but because of how its socially interpreted. There is no universal interpretation of the Qur'an that is consistent enough for me to feel confident in. Of course there is, in unison the agreement of the simplistic beliefs however in other areas of interest there are some difference. Among some of my inquiries I feel that Islam is too much intertwined in a culture that is not like my own. For instance the Arabization of Islam. Many Linguist who have mastered Arabic and who are also theologians further extend their claims in the supremacy of the Arabic language by referring from the Hadith as mentioning that "Arabic is the Language of the Angels." I too also have heard that in the Empyrean, Arabic is the language spoken. The Funny thing about this is that this is similar to what the Jewish Sages have spoken about the Torah. Similar toJudaism about the creation of Angels the Angels were created from the Shekinah or Glory from God. In Islam Angels were created from light--or Nur. I feel that if there is some great distinction within this monotheistic faith there must exist a large gap that exist between itself and from the entire religions on the face of this planet. However as reality notes there isn't. I feel greatly the sense of isolation between myself and a large group of Muslims because my experience shave lead me to feel this way. First off, the large majority of influential Muslims support their cultures of choice. Not once did I ever see Muslims from any reputable organization come into the African-American community or involve themselves publicly, with any troubled youth nor any inmates in the prison system. I have found much discrimination, not once, not twice, not three times, but multiple times. It is true people have more of an influence on people that scripture has. If you don't believe me then we can find evidence in the actions of several men who drove planes in buildings on 9/11. Of course the Jews did it though right? I have tried numerous times forcefully tried to reconcile myself with the community and even to the greater extent tried to reconcile the Muslim community with itself. Largely none of you wish to involve yourselves in none of my topics. If one goes back I have posted numerous positive subjects which many of us can be involved in. Of course I get the occasional response of: "Sometimes people don't know what to say" or "Sometimes people show their agreement with what you say by their lack of a response." However in the same instance would automatically input their feelings when we discuss issues with the United States or the War in Iraq or the cartoons. Goodness here and in the world abroad is not cherished nor "out of the box" thinking is. As I was told not by just the moderators Rami and Peacemaker, but by others that, my ideas and thoughts seen as divisive towards others who are genuinely seeking Islam. So in other words, my logical ideas are basically dangerous which could lead others way basically. However blind as they are do not see that ther comments made against my country and made against so-called Western Muslim would drive away other Muslims. I extend an apology to all those who see me as a hypocrite. Perhpas I am and perhaps I serve more than anyone else to serve in eternal damnation. You know I have done nothing but try to be the best human being as I can. The one thing I totally dislike about the Muslim community are the fake, conditional gestures. I do not call a Muslim my brother but all human beings because we live in a brotherhood and sisterhood within each other as a species. Unfortunately we have come to the point that we begin to be exclusive to each other because of religious/social influence. I love the peaceful gesture of "As'Salaamu Alaikum" but am tired of the conditional; behavior of Muslims who say to me "I say this as your sister because Allah in the Qur'an has told me so." So basically if you were to give advice to your brother or sister of blood you will say "I am telling you this because my momma told me" rather saying "I'm telling you this because I sincerely care about your well being." I find the former rather parroting, and insincere. We should be welcoming to all people regardless of race, religion, sexual orientation. That is why I firmly believe that we humans will continuously suffer in ignorance of each other the more we divide ourselves and exclude ourselves. In regards to Heaven and Hell I firmly believe in their existence however I believe in the opposite of what it is socially thought as. God being so great I cannot first comprehend suffering nor bliss since we humans cannot truthfully imagine the physical sensation of Heaven and Hell. What is the need of boiling hot water poured in the mouth of a liar when the soul is farther away from his Maker? I make a similar argument in my case. I suffer my great loss because my mother is not here and I suffer everyday she is not here with me. So can you imagine the soul that is condemned by his maker? The absence of God's love is the greatest torment so there is no need for fire and boiling water for if God tuns away from you there is no greater pain. If God loves you this is the ultimate bliss because then, you come into the boosom of God's infinity and are one with him. I can say the only reason why I am still Muslim is the fear that I am wrong.......If I didn't have this fear I would traverse to my original belief, which was a journeyman for God. I cannot in my heart of hearts feel the same way an orthodox Muslim does in viewing people of other faiths. I cannot belief that God would literally hate something in compared to him a microscopic organism, just because they have a religion something in the world so small. I tend to think God made us in many shapes, forms and colors and with many religions for the purpose of involvement with each other as a species knowing that with our growing intelligence it too, can be used to be divisivse, hateful, and spiteful. I understand that my beliefs ar eperhaps shocking or what not and I expect not much of a response here but this is the honest truth. Everyday I ask God to forgive me if I am wrong but I sincerely feel this way. I have been judged here anyway and never once feel any spiritual connection with any Muslims here. Many of you love to compare my age but at least I show limited intelligence enough to respect people of other faiths, something I find extraordinarily hard for other Muslims to practice. Regardless what I said previously here my faith in God has not been shaken but reminaed firm but I'm should some ignorant fool would reply with an ignorant comment base don what I say here. I hope what I say here will sink in to the other Muslims in how the are towards so-called "Western Muslims." It is important to know that we as people do in fact make a differenc ein each others lives and its important to have a welcoming attitude to people of all backgrounds. If I'm a hypocrite because I love my fellow brother and sister in my human species then I'm guilty as charged. I would also like to thank Abeer23 for this spiritual ressurection, without her ignorant comments in the other section this would not have been possible. I would like to thank the Moderators and other members for for their comments because it showed me how true the nature of the Muslim community is, today. But perhaps through  the hurtful gestures of others we can learn something.... Since respect here is rare, I'm sure the moderators will evetually close this......Regardless I'm glad I said it here.

Bismillah,

We are glad you said it here also.  Many of us will appreciate your poignant, heartfelt words.

Peace

DavidC wrote: I would say God would most likely condemn the Wiccan, as that is a religion based on making God serve the will of man.  Definitely bassackwards. Second would be the Buddhist, who is full of good works but without any relationship to God. Since Hinduism is not an single religion it really does not fit the premise very well.

Well this is the problem I have with that mindset because who are we to judge others based on our own religious criterion?  Exactly my point. Recently I was in a discussion with another Muslim about the reliability of translation. He told me that the translations that we have in other various languages are interpretations because in the original content of Arabic it is unchanged therefore when trying to translate, requires an interpretation to fit the proper meraning of translated term.

Although in some ways agreeable I feel that it takes away the motivation of reading any Holy doctrine because of the translated terms is considered not up to par with the language which was revealed to the prophet. Of course its good to understand the original context but the spirituality of the message resides within the meanings not the words themselves. However no matter how a Western Muslim such as myself (if I can call myself one) looks at it, there is always a counter argument from another Muslim in defense of this...Religion more and more becomes unappealing to me whenever I hear this.

Brother Israfil, Arabic is the heart of Islam.

The Bible and the Thora have been changed and so the Koran cannot be changed. Anyone can learn Arabic brother. This is the language that God chose and the Message is for all.

Maybe you need a break brother. Too many ideas and too much thinking can be too much for you. Islam also comes from the heart, this is about faith. You need to feel the Iman.

All the best brother,

Muslima

Muslima wrote: Brother Israfil, Arabic is the heart of Islam. The Bible and the Thora have been changed and so the Koran cannot be changed. Anyone can learn Arabic brother. This is the language that God chose and the Message is for all. Maybe you need a break brother. Too many ideas and too much thinking can be too much for you. Islam also comes from the heart, this is about faith. You need to feel the Iman. All the best brother, Muslima

Language is a human invention.

God does not speak arabic and he doesn't prefer any language over another.  It's all about the message, not the language.  Muhammad happened to speak arabic; therefore, the Koran comes in arabic.

Worrying about learning arabic is a distraction that, it seems to me, Muslims could afford to lose.

Salam Alaikoam

I have been through a Spiritual Crisis at one time too, now I realize that my Faith is bettween me and Allah, God, The Creator and no one else.

It is up to us how we will express our Islam and no one else can tell us how to do that.  We have to decide for ourselves how many times we will pray in a day and maybe the best prayer is a living prayer, ie being the best most wonderful person we can be.

Submission to Allah may mean getting Education and Training in some profession so we can provide for ourselves and our families with grace and dignity for all.

Maybe our submission to Allah means we accept we have problems or challenges we are having a difficult time dealing with and go to trained, educated counselors or Doctors for solutions and counseling that helps us be dignified and give dignity to others.

Maybe our submission is consulting community about needed infra structure and encouraging them to set it in place like affordable and accessible day care.  It could also be asking community to set in place affordable counseling or self help groups so we can be sorted into groups to see what we have done wrong and what we have done right and be taught better skills like communication skills, relationship skills, parenting skills, coping with frustration skills, effect conflict resolution skills and other issues like addiction services.

So you see Islam is not in a box like some people think, it is an open book with room to evolve and room to explore what Islam means to us.

Even myself at first I thought Islam was wrapped up in 5 daily prayers, Hajj, giving Alms but it really is not.

What I discovered is that Islam transcends all living experiences by all of humanity even though most would not accept this.

So in my view there are not 4 million Muslems there are ten Billion of them all expressing their Islam the way they see fit.

We can try to model everyone into the same box but it would soon be full of holes because everyone is different and we all have our own ideas and opinions.

However I do believe that Humanity can be Called to an Inter Faith Education, Counseling and Consultation Jihad (The word Jihad means struggle and the most important level is the struggle we have we being/becoming the best person we can be)

So I would not worry if you express your Islam a little differently than others because there are many ways to express our submission to Allah, God, The Creator.

Salam

Anne Marie Elderkin Habibi

The previous posts are agreeable I was just noting a couple of things which bothered me. I agree that God has given humans the ability to speak in their languages accordinly however I feel that Arabic is not some spiritual language, I find it like any other. As one here said language is created by human beings. However I get tormented when I here others say that the written words in doctrine are not spiritually "on par" as the language as it was originally written." I too have found that there are some cultural emphasis in Islam. What I struggle in religion is that it is made around the culture of that specific people. What I have tried to reconcile before is how can a "Religion of God" be culturally specific?

For instance when I say "As'Salaamu Alaikum" to other who are Arabic speaking, most get surprised because they see me, an African-American speaking briefly in their language. I get the occasional "What country are you from?" obviously not too observant seeing how I have tattoos and clearly sounding American, I respond respectually saying "I'm American." Since being Muslim I feel that I have sense reach the pennicle of my faith not in the sense of knowledge but in the sense that I am restricted intellectually within the limits of religion. Most religious faiths do not allow theoretical thinking as, not surprisingly is said to lead people astray.

But what I'm really surprised at is the reaction I get from people when I use the ancient greeting. I understand most of you all here some Muslims and non-muslims understand my point of view and yes we all have our momentary spiritual crisis. But how can I truly combat it? I have prayed. I have asked God to forgive me. Nothing. I'm not saying anything irrational like "God abadoned me" or something totally outrageous but I do not feel that sense of belonging. I felt more of a sense of belonging as a non-Muslim as I do a Muslim. Kind of like a club really.

When I conversed with Muslims before my conversion there was some sincere hospitality. Some would tell me "I have a brillant mind why not convert to Islam and share it." Some others would tell me that even as a non-muslim my heart is like a Muslim. Then when I convert those individuals seem to disappear. One guy I remember when I converted, told me "Now that you are Muslim you must also adopt a fiqh." On top of that follow a particular following, or sect. I found these too complicated because it all eventually goes to someone elses interpretation on following Islam correctly. Thus my belief that Scholars are in reality not different than a history teacher who interprets history.

Truly a struggle for the Ages!

salam aleikum brother israfil,

I am a muslim from Egypt. I have been on this forum for some time although i barely posted anything. I would check it once every month , and i would like what you write in yr posts generally speaking.

Any way, Israfeel, what you are going through is normal . We are humans and are pressurable. Muslims arent in their best shape these days and as you noticed there are many faults that we need to work on .

If you go back to your Journey to God out of Islam you will again come back to Islam for one simple reason .

Islam is the closest thing to what God really wants from us.

Its important to differentiate between if you are looking for spirituality or looking for God. Your path of God can get you some spirituality but not necessarily the opposite.

There are things that you have posted that are not ubnormal for a revert to feel , the sense of lonliness , the difficulties between reconciling your cultural references with Demanding faith. The hindrances that are put in your face when people from the faith mix their culture with religion ... etc...

in Brief... you are a perfectionist and you are feeling pressured and eventually fatigue.. deep spiritual fatigue.

Take it easy . Do search for the truth . However i am sorry to say that the truth isnt easy and doesnt have the road leading to it full with roses.

People from all faiths who have strived for God have been where you are and more. I am not belitteleing what you are going through, i am just trying to tell you that this is the symptoms for an honest God searching person.

If you dont like what your brothers in Islam are doing then do better. Islam doesnt controll you . There is no pope. Be better muslim than them .

God will reward you for your intentions.

Sleep well and no matter if you are muslim or not . If you search for God ''sincerely'' then he will guide you back to his Islam . His pure Islam .

May you have peace in your heart and comfort and guidance.

and all of us

Ameen

Meedo

Muslima wrote: Brother Israfil, Arabic is the heart of Islam.

Arabic is the language of the arabs not islam.