Philippines Flashback

As an American, I should be grate­ful for Benedict Urn's appreciation ["Filipino Aop," Letters, March] of our occupation of the Philippines, but as an historian I am troubled by his one-sided characterization of the first decade of our rule. The "eradication" of Filipino hatred was accomplished not just by schools and hospitals but also by mili­tary brutality and draconian sedition laws, including a prohibition on flying the Philippine flag. Mortality was re­duced-after we had "contributed directly or indirectly" to the death of an estimated 775,000 Filipinos out of a total population of just over 7 million, . according to Ken De Bevoise's Agents of Apocalypse. The "democracy" we im­planted gave the vote to less than 2.5 percent of the population, essentially only property-owning males. Evaluat­ing the success of the United States' colonial experiment in the Philippines requires nuance and balance, not pa­triotic whitewash.

Norman G. Owen, Ph.D.

Duke University, Durham, N.C.

Sister, my point is very simple. I will reveal it as soon as you educate us on how has the United States' actions and the attutudes of her over patriotic folks have changed since?

Professor Owen works and lives in the US. I feel, he could best explain why he was forced to write this letter in "Harpers" - a one hunderd and ten percent respectable American publication.

Clue: my point has something to do with Patriotic Hogwash.

Interesting Whisper!

Salam

Whisper, I have really tried to ignore you....but you will keep this up, this hatred for everything/anything white or American, and I will post the realities of what really happened.  If you insist on posting your narrow-minded bigotry and hatred....I will at the least, explain the inaccuracies and the actualities of what happened. 

We cannot change history -- NO ONE CAN DO THAT.  But we can learn from it.  The important thing is that to LEARN FROM IT, the posted articles must be completely accurate and unbiased.  Your's are NOT...they are always slanted, bigoted, inaccurate, or just plain untrue.  I can't help but wonder why you would do such a thing, if you truly want to enlighten people and bring about peace throughout the world.

Brother Whipser, please carry on posting as I am educating myself with you.

Salam

Whisper wrote: Sister, my point is very simple. I will reveal it as soon as you educate us on how has the United States' actions and the attutudes of her over patriotic folks have changed since? Professor Owen works and lives in the US. I feel, he could best explain why he was forced to write this letter in "Harpers" - a one hunderd and ten percent respectable American publication. Clue: my point has something to do with Patriotic Hogwash.

Whisper I see you still haven't gone to fight the evil US in your home country of Afghanistan. Your family there must be proud to know you hide in Spain and only bad mouth the US instead of fighting it. Then again like you have said you are no patriot and I guess you couldn't care less about your home country. At least you have muslima buying all the stuff you put out here. By the way, any proof of what you say or just one guy who claims to know what happen? You seem to always lack the proof and believe anything anti-america you read.

Yes, we know how much American is good, we already know that..

Who's next?!

Akm, I know you fancy me but I prefer Salman. Please stop following me everywhere!

Peace

My Dear Friend, Maryah,

We have been friends, I think, right?  Well, as you know, in America we are soon to have another election to choose a new president.  That's one thing about this country....we are NOT stuck for a long, long time with one person in the presidency.  At the most he can be there no longer than 8 years, and this is nearly up.  So we are far from powerless.  We will again choose who the majority want to be president.  I, too, believe the troops should come home.  But I'm a little more intense about it than most....I want every single one of our military members, no matter where they are now, back on US soil. They should be here defending our borders, helping when catastrophes hit the country, like Katrina, etc.  I'm 100% for isolationism, but I know in this day and age it would be an impossibility.  We should, and will, continue to offer humanitarian aid to impoverished countries in the form of food, clothing, shelter, medical assistance, etc....but that's it.  We are not wanted, we are hated, and we should be home in America.  My Mom always taught me not to go anyplace where I wasn't invited.  And that's how I feel about our military being out of America.  We should employ these young soldiers for defense purposes only.  Let the other countries work out their differences, or if some other country wants to "step in" and offer their assistance, fine!  I wish them well!!

Yes, sadly, you MUST pay your taxes.  I hate the loss of wages, but I also realize without them we would not have the budgets needed to repair roads, bridges, build schools, and operate the multitude of organizations which help millions of people who are less fortunate, i.e., the poor, sick, and elderly.

So, with all our MANY faults, we still are never powerless.  We have many options open to us.  We HAVE THE FREEDOM to protest in the street, write letters, etc.  Many other individuals in some countries are not that fortunate, are they?

Peace be with you.....

I agree 100% with you Maryah.

Salam

My friend, if you believe in NATO, you have won already. The victory belongs to the oppressors.

But our time will come inshAllah.

I would never unite with a Keffer. EroudoubIlleh! I prefer my Muslim brothers and sisters. You keep Colin all to yourself, there is no chance I may be interested.

Not the Muslims, this is wrong. You mean so-called Muslim government put in place by the US.

You always have the same attitude akm. You are very angry towards those so called Muslims )and I undertsand you) but this is OK for the people who gave you a passport and for the Americans.

If you are to have this attitude, you have to have it for all.

You criticise those oppressive regimes but you defend Musharraf. That does not make sense either!

Whisper, I have really tried to ignore you....but you will keep this up, this hatred for everything / anything white or American,

My friend, I find your presumptions interesting. You slander everything as hate if it doesn't agree with you. Is it ever possible that some people in our world would post something out of some better reasons than you may care to count?

and I will post the realities of what really happened.

Is that a promise or just a threat? What are we here for if not for a healthy exchange of what we know? What are we waiting for? Please post those secrets.

If you insist on posting your narrow-minded bigotry and hatred....

Thank you for your kind and rather amusing compliments, but kindly direct these to Dr. Norman G. Owen, he is a respected American professor - his comment appeared in one of the two most respectable US publications.

I will at the least, explain the inaccuracies and the actualities of what happened.

Kindly post and explain, I promise you, I am not taken to calling people names if their posts differ with my point of view. I will read them exactly for what they are meant for - reading and measuring against other evidence.

We cannot change history -- NO ONE CAN DO THAT. 

You are absolutely right. Well, I will keep quiet about the US agenda of the day out of sheer decency.

But we can learn from it.

I sincerely hope, but see very slim chances of that.

The important thing is that to LEARN FROM IT, the posted articles must be completely accurate and unbiased.  Your's are NOT...they are always slanted, bigoted, inaccurate, or just plain untrue. 

I had, for a moment, thought that you lived in a democratic country and would allow open honest discussion. Besides, I didnt realise that you had been vested with the powers to hallmark the accuracy and validity of articles appearing in the Global press.

I can't help but wonder why you would do such a thing, if you truly want to enlighten people and bring about peace throughout the world.

Thank you for this new lesson. I hadn't known that World Peace is brought about if we push all our muck under the carpet? And we can enlighten people only if we feed them just the good things about us? And, anyone who says anything different is, at best, a bigotted hate bag if not outright mad.

I wonder why that seems to remind me of a few chaps the whole world fought against only for such very attitude?

I can only agree with you Whisper and I am now looking in the direction of Patty for her to show us the document/information she was talking about.

I am interested in the debate.

Salam

Whisper I see you still haven't gone to fight the evil US in your home country of Afghanistan. Your family there must be proud to know you hide in Spain and only bad mouth the US instead of fighting it. Then again like you have said you are no patriot and I guess you couldn't care less about your home country. At least you have muslima buying all the stuff you put out here. By the way, any proof of what you say or just one guy who claims to know what happen? You seem to always lack the proof and believe anything anti-america you read.

Sir, by now, I have started to enjoy your habit of barking up the wrong tree. An eminent American professor wrote this piece. You have his name and address on the article, kindly, try that tree.

I often go to my area, though I am in no dire need of doing so, people are doing full justice to the American puppet regime.

Proof? Need I get into that when your forces and admin are so bent upon proving their reality almost on a daily basis?

My best compliments.

Actually, this post does have some relevance. In the US today the voters are rather powerless, they have a despot in the presidency that has bought his way into power and has left the voter populace "powerless". Most people I have spoken to despise the war in Iraq and i myself have been in the street protesting it, I have written letters and partipated in protests and it gets us absolutely nowhere. Should we refuse to pay our taxes? I would love to but they steal this out of my paycheck before I ever see it! After all, wasnt it Bro Jebs state that kept the shrub in power, reread this article and you will see. Are we doing this to Iraq?

I have noticed tha people with higher IQs do come to understand what I am saying. It's sad that the Pat Riots always happen to be a bit dim. Why else won't they chose to celebrate Human Rights instead?

So, Americans are quotable and to be trusted if they write something negative about an occupation, but vile and untrustworthy if they write something positive? 

So, Americans are quotable and to be trusted if they write something negative about an occupation, but vile and untrustworthy if they write something positive?

Sister, Life is such a complex goddess, she can't really be dealt in just the negative and the positive, love and hate and other such basic simple pairs of choices. Only few lucky people can be programmed with such a nice and manageable view of Life.

I firmly believe in the basic Rights the Creator has granted us all as humans. I find Pat Riotism, specially the mindless gung ho American variety, a vulgar crime against humanity.

Plus, I don't believe that a man (or, a nation for that matter) becomes more equal just with a bigger fistfull of dollars. And, somehow they come to hold the Divine Right to speak as if they are the international community and accept only governments that they have themselves placed or are their tributaries and bomb any place across the world - at will.

I find use of force, be it at the domestic front or at the global level, a mere vulgarity. 

I find a place where a mother and some school teacher have to scrap for their dental care and a half naked woman is paid millions just for performing pornographic acts on the telly. (Or, a young kid for chasing and kicking a ball)

I find a people just vulgar when they count only their own dead and cover up for all other killings And, pay Americans $7,000,000 if killed by some Libyan or whoever and when they kill an Eyeraki - he is paid $1,500.

Sir Whisper, your language is, shall we say, a little on the flowery side, but otherwise, a good post.

Last night was the "Noche de San Juan" the official all singing all dancing start of summer, the BBQ is still going at the pool, I just slipped in sometime during the night. The post has to smell a little.

You are vested with the rights to edit and post it back!

Last night was the "Noche de San Juan" the official all singing all dancing start of summer, the BBQ is still going at the pool, I just slipped in sometime during the night. The post has to smell a little.

If my BBQ's are anything to go by, it was probably an undercooked sausage!

You are vested with the rights to edit and post it back!

Wouldn't dream of it.

Brother Whisper:

I find I would put more credence to your claims if you were as upset about all injustice, vulgarity, and violence as you seem to be with American injustice, vulgarity, and violence.

True, an Iraqi may be worth $1500 to an American soldier, but how much were they worth to a Ba'athist soldier?

Millions for kicking a ball? Are you speaking of the Saudi soccer team? Who I hear got their bonuses for tying instead of winning.

There is injustice, bloodshed, and inhumanity everywhere. There are Muslim footballers making millions while Muslims around the world starve. Why not show righteous anger about that? We are Muslims after all. Some Muslim child under the control of a "Muslim" government has probably died of starvation while I was typing this. Or while you were eating your BBQ. The leaders of these countries are as guilty of being controlled by Western money and influence as the West is of controlling them. More so, I would say, as it is their own people they are sacrificing for power and wealth.

I am working to change my government. Why not work to change yours instead of obsessing over mine?

Candid, you are so right! But I think this is important to fight also the dictators. We should go on different fronts at the same time.

Allah help us InshAllah!!

So.....if I understand all this blather correctly, the consensus appears to be that America cannot please any other country.  If we go into a country to help free the innocent, we are seen as murderous invaders.  If we send humanitarian aid, it's never enough, it doesn't get to the "right people", etc., etc. 

Wow. I've been looking over a lot of the deviations and reading stuff on the news sites. Guess what? People don't like America. What a surprise. After all, what is there to like about us? We've been the world's bank, police force . . . hmm. And we're the only country I know that forces its students to sit through classes where the theme is "You're white, you're American, you're evil."

So! What to do about all this? I have a few suggestions on how to make America a better country.

1. Stop all the humanitarian aid to foreign countries. Oh, Pakistan's had an earthquake? Darn. Famine in the Sudan? Gee whiz, we sure wish we could help, but you see, we have our own problems at home.

2. Do what people in our government want and make it a crime for foreigners to come into the country without going through the proper channels. (That's why they're called ILLEGAL immigrants.) When they're caught, either send them back to where they came from or, if they're so eager to live as Americans, throw them in jail.

3. Speaking of jail, let's revamp the prison system while we're at it. No more libraries, movies, weight rooms, or ability to sue over getting creamy peanut butter when you want chunky. None of that, thank you. Prison is supposed to be PUNISHMENT, not Disneyland.

4. Reinstate the death penalty for murder and sex crimes. Nationwide. And none of this waiting around for years while lawyers keep running the case around in circles. Once someone's found guilty of a death-penalty crime, they have six months for a lawyer to make a convincing case that they're innocent. If not, goodbye, sucker.

5. Get rid of the ACLU. Or else have a competing agency with the same clout that Christians can use to sue when their rights are being violated.

6. Do what other countries do--you go to Germany? Learn German. France? Learn French. Japan? Learn Japanese. America? Speak American or go home. (Why do we have ENGLISH courses anyway? This is America, not England.)

7. Pull our troops out--not just from Iraq, but EVERYWHERE we have even 1 American troop stationed. Whoops, a dictator in the Middle East is slaughtering his own people by the millions? Sorry, it's their problem. (Not like anyone appricates the help anyway.)

8. Develop our own energy resources. Tell the Middle Eastern oil barons to shove their oil.

9. Stop apologizing for the past. This is the 21st century. What happened in the 1600s, 1700s, and 1800s shouldn't matter anymore.

10. Give nukes to these tiny countries who want to blow us up with them--if they can catch them, they can have them.

And God bless us....everyone......

This is impossible to reason somebody who has been brainwashed.

If you still believe that American went to Irak to free the innocent, this is hopeless.

I have already explained how Saddam came to power. It may have been deleted but I am sure you can find the true information somewhere...

Candid, all my respect!

Brother Whisper:

I find I would put more credence to your claims if you were as upset about all injustice, vulgarity, and violence as you seem to be with American injustice, vulgarity, and violence.

B�fazle�ta�la I hold a traditioned platform and I am on record about my stand on these matters. Here, at this forum, I expose what pains most at the global level. 

True, an Iraqi may be worth $1500 to an American soldier, but how much were they worth to a Ba'athist soldier?

Thank you for admitting such an interesting fact. I agree, time has proven the Baathists to be a wee kinder over these few years

There is injustice, bloodshed, and inhumanity everywhere. There are Muslim footballers making millions while Muslims around the world starve. Why not show righteous anger about that?

I often wonder why everything has to be just about anger and hatred to someone in the US? I am not angry about anything at all, in fact I am far from it. This is not some us versus them matter for me. I find it simply vulgar.

I didn�t realise that these million dollar wasteful transactions were started and spread through the world by some saudi mischief.

I am working to change my government. Why not work to change yours instead of obsessing over mine?

I hold every right to shoot at your government since it is running and ruining my country albeit through an ex-Burger chef from down town Chicago.

When anyone as much as speaks, he is shot and added to the al-Qaeda count.

If you have some effective recipe for changing my government, kindly, mail it to me on my account. 

Whisper:

The Americans and your ex-burger chef have only been in Afghanistan for a couple of years. Before that, it was the Taliban, who I believe you look favorably upon. Now, I may be wrong, but for those 10 or so years that the Taliban were the de facto government, anyone could have gone to Afghanistan and helped effect positive change, without being shot and added to the Al Qaeda body count. So, I can only assume that it is much easier to be an armchair quarter back from Europe, than to actually roll up your sleeves and personally go set the world to rights.

These links are about the Taliban, the former rulers of Afghanistan:

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/taliban.html - http://www.infoplease.com/spot/taliban.html

This is part of the website for the Revolutionary women of Afghanistan, or R.A.W.A...ever see the pictures of the executions from the soccer fields? They are here in this website, look and see.

http://www.rawa.org/zarmina1.jpg - http://www.rawa.org/zarmina1.jpg

http://www.rawa.org/newyork.htm - http://www.rawa.org/newyork.htm

Just read and view the pictures under the links on this page:

http://www.rawa.org/women.html - http://www.rawa.org/women.html

Seems like the situation in Afghanistan hasn't improved with the country being occupied, but it was horrid before. So this that what you would like your country to return to, Whisper? I certainly hope not, I think more highly of you than that!

The current situation in Afghanistan, The links are here: it is really bad:

http://www.rawa.org/betray.htm - http://www.rawa.org/betray.htm

http://www.rawa.org/organs2.htm - http://www.rawa.org/organs2.htm

http://www.rawa.org/unicef.htm - http://www.rawa.org/unicef.htm

http://www.rawa.org/index.html - http://www.rawa.org/index.html

Whisper, and YOU dare insult America?  Clean your own house before you throw aspersions on mine!!  This is a perfect example of how women are perceived in Afghanistan.  They are of less worth than a dog.  I am so sad for them.  I pray for them, that Almighty God will protect them from these sinful, hateful men.  Only animals could treat another human being in this manner.

Here's what they can do to a young girl:

http://www.rawa.org/rahima.htm - http://www.rawa.org/rahima.htm

http://www.rawa.org/zarmeena.htm - http://www.rawa.org/zarmeena.htm

This is sad!

I have simply no words to express my anger and sadness at how these poor, innocent women are abused and murdered!  There simply are no words.

God's Peace.

The Americans and your ex-burger chef have only been in Afghanistan for a couple of years.

I was responding to your "minding my own government" recipe.

Before that, it was the Taliban, who I believe you look favorably upon. Now, I may be wrong, but for those 10 or so years that the Taliban were the de facto government, anyone could have gone to Afghanistan and helped effect positive change, without being shot and added to the Al Qaeda body count.

Taliban have never been my favourite, but they had started to move somewhere - after two decades of war! In an After-War situation it could not have be any better.

Yes, we could AND we were changing our lot, folks had begun to contribute fresh ideas after returning from other countries. We are a vital and an extremely political tribal lot, we don�t leave anything on th ewrong foot any longer than it is required. If they weren�t good for us, I promise you upon my scout�s honour, even my small tribe would have done our very own breed of justice to them.

Sister, do you always preach colonisation or does US has some soft spot with you?

So, I can only assume that it is much easier to be an armchair quarter back from Europe, than to actually roll up your sleeves and personally go set the world to rights.

It�s simply not possible to be an armchair anything in our such interesting days and, specially, when we are responsible for a wee over 3.2 million people in that region. I don�t hold any particular fancy for Europe, I just love Spain for her depth of culture and passions, not just of people, but as also defined by her colours and weather.

I hope, you will agree that it�s far better to live in a dignified state than to live next door in Pakistan run by the U S and her best puppet in the world? through the farce of a democracy.

It won�t be long before the poor Americans face the bill for the US meddlings in Pakistan, specifically, by forcing changes in their religious texts

I am in my area almost every five weeks. I am heading in that direction right this minute. Even otherwise, I get two hourly mail reports from my council of 28 deputies and a phone-conference three times a daily - irrespective of the time zone I am in.

That must some real armchair job?

Whisper, and YOU dare insult America?  Clean your own house before you throw aspersions on mine!! 

Sorry, Patty, it seems that you didn�t get the news?

My country is run entirely by your country�s Pentagon and we have no say whatever in its affairs.

Also, please, NOTE once and for all times that I happen to be an Afghan of some really rare traditions. (I have no need to mention those here as, I have known through my experience, those will be extremely difficult to grasp for a flag wrapped American mind)

Just please remember that: If your country weren�t running and ruining mine I won�t as much as look or even spit at yours.

Here's what they can do to a young girl:

You should send this link to Dick Chenny, Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz, they were running the country on that date.

Or, start a fresh thread, we are discussing something different and entirely beyond the usual flag wrapped mindlessness.

Patty, what about the women abused, raped and killed by your soldiers in Irak and Afghanistan?!

HezbEllah Wenermelwekil!!! I want to see with my own eyes inshAllah the punishment of God, before I die.

The talibans released Yvonne Ridley and she is now a Muslims activist. Do not speak without knowing.

The whole Muslims world knows that! Even men have been raped in Irak! I have a friend Iraki I have met this weekend and he is here as a refugee, and he told me that they even raped a Sunni Imam! Most of his family had to take refuge in Jordan.

Whoever loves the Keffiroun, May Allah keep them together in the same place tomorrow inshALlah!

Akm, I can't wait for the Judgement day! And I am saying this for you! You are worse that the KKK....

From whisper:

"You should send this link to Dick Chenny, Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz, they were running the country on that date.

Even if that were so, they were clearly NOT the ones committing these atrocious crimes against the Afghanistani women.  NO, it was the Taliban men.  There is no excuse for this, absolutely none.

What do you do to help your fellow Afghanis?  Or anyone for that matter? You talk a dismal talk, and walk an even more dismal walk when you choose to ignore the situation of women in your homeland.

"Patty, what about the women abused, raped and killed by your soldiers in Irak and Afghanistan?!"

Show me the evidence, Muslima....show it to me.  I would be just as appalled as I am over the Taliban's abuse and slaughter of Afghan women....unlike you, who only becomes upset if these acts are committed by Americans.

But then we DO know for a fact that Saddam had women raped and tortured, and his sons were two of the worst rapists know in modern times.  How do you feel about them?

Actually, The Talibans came into power thanks to the Americans. They were even invited in the White House because the Americans wanted to build an oleoduc across the country.

I am sure I have already said that. You do not wish to learn, this is hopeless.

If you want to speak about poltics, you need to be educated and know what you are talking about, and not spit out the false information you have been brainswashed into your head since you came to this life. This is what they do in America.

What is the help the Americans brought to Afghanistan or Irak? Only misery!

People in the UK can testify there was a program recently (and once again I have already said that but you do not want to learn or listen to anything) and it was about iraki women. They all said that Americans had to go because they brought only misery to their country. You do not know how much peple hate you because you do not understand how much you hurt people everyday everwhere, not only in Muslim countries. Also in Asia and Latinoamerica.

Thank God, we have people like Chavez to help the poeple in your continent!

But you are so puritan and have such a good conscious about yourself, because you were fed this since your birth....This is impossible to reason an American, impossible!!!

Poverty and political instability are the major problems of the Muslims(both man and woman). Much more women are suffering from poverty than from gender discrimination. Afghanistan is a poor country. Even if ideal government was in place condition won't have been better. Taliban cannot be blamed for the suffering of the Afghans when they ruled. They were not ideal but they were the best.

They were successful in stopping the opium production in Afaghanistan which resumed after the Taliban were overthrown.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,605618,00.html - http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,60 5618,00.html

Poverty and political instability are the major problems of the Muslims(both man and woman). Much more women are suffering from poverty than from gender discrimination.

I often wonder about your posts and far more about your finely tuned mind. A great majority of can afford to think only what we are told to think.

Afghanistan is a poor country. Even if ideal government was in place condition won't have been better. Taliban cannot be blamed for the suffering of the Afghans when they ruled. They were not ideal but they were the best.

But my friend we must blame them for anything and everything just because they refuse to accept the US imperialism.

They were successful in stopping the opium production in Afaghanistan which resumed after the Taliban were overthrown.

When Muslima posts something, it's Show me the evidence, Muslima....show it to me. 

But when Her Imperial US Highness says anything it becomes we DO know for a fact that . . . .

I CANNOT believe you are saying: show me the evidence!

This kind of comments gioves me the strength to become a Mujahida, I swear!

I have read the testimonials published in the Washington Post, an American newspaper! I have friends who are Iraki! i am sponsoring an orphan who is iraki, they cannot even tell me if he is still alive or not!

We have seen in the Uk the program about Iraki women and yes, they have been raped. My friend who is iraki told me a Sunni Imam was raped!!!!!!

You DARE telling me: show me the evidence! You have raped so many young men. In Abu Ghraib, the men could hera the women shouting, they were kept underground. Some yankeeds have been kidnaped and the kidnapers were only asking the liberation of the women, they the yankees denied there were women in the prison and it was shown that was a lie.

There even were women at Guantanamo! Check this out(first one on the top left-hand side, only one maong others):

http://www.cageprisoners.com/prisoners.php?location=Ghost - http://www.cageprisoners.com/prisoners.php?location=Ghost

Patty Kelba, never ever say again my brothers and sisters are inventing their pains. Never again!

I let Muslims see on which side you are.

Someone had a signature saying you cannot be a Muslim whithout fighting for the people. I do agree!

Akm, I disagree with you! I do not mind for its image, I worry for my brothers and sisters, the ones who have been raped, beaten, stolen, torture.

I do not give a thing about America's image!!!

I put lives first marketing preoccupations.

You two do not agree with me! You agree with each other!!!

Oh, Good!  I feel so much better now!

Muslima:  for what it is worth, I was agreeing that the Guantanamo Bay situation is horrific, and that America has atrocities to answer for.  Try reading other people's posts, but then I guess you are so busy writing your own, you don�t have enough time, do you? 

It really is hopeless, isn�t it. (Rhetorical question, hence no question mark to the tag.)

No, you only care for your image. If the article was about Irakis hurting Americans, your attitude would be far different!

Please do not pretend you care for my people. You do not need to convince me, I have lots of Iraki friends. I have followed in detail Abu Ghraib. What do you think those people will grow up into? What do you think? I know the effects of torture, see the Battle of Algiers.

Don't be surprised to have the majority of the world who hates you. You are a burden for humanity, that is the truth!

"My image"?  I live in Spain, sweetheart, a country with a better way of looking at the beauties and joys of life than you with your hatred and vitriol cold ever imagine!  As for what I care about, I care about injustice, I care about fairness, I care about free speech, I care about real freedom, open and unbiased education, love, children, and small animals.  I care about my fellow correspondents on this forum and their fair minded evaluations of the WORLD�s sorrows.  I care that people like you are exactly what people like me are afraid of....please go join those of your ilk, and then maybe this forum can go back to the decency it had before you joined it.  I "do not need to convince" you.  No Muslima, thankfully, I do not.

(O.K.  For those with "Ears to Hear": So I said I wouldn't post for a while, but really.........)

Yes really? In Spain? What about the events of El Ejido in which they have chased and killed Morroccans? They treat them like animals there and now they even stopped giving them work and give it to the Romanians.

Of course, you muist be far from that. This is not your world, but this is mine! I can see it and i fell the suffering of my brothers.

You carry on and work on your image, girl!

Muslima! No one is perfect! OKAY!!!

Nothing people gonna say will be not good in your eyes, you just end up coming back at them with "but but you have done this and that ...."

yes everyone has done this and that, no one is perfect!

So get off your high horse.

Angel, your sister tells me that she lives in a perfect Spain and now you are angry because I tell you about another aspect of Spain that is unfortunately very real.

I am not going to apologise for making you feel bad by reminding you of the existence of these people.

I have never I or anyone was perfect.

Too bad for you i know so many things, and I hope to learn and learn more and more from my Muslim brothers and sisters here InshAllah.

Knowledge is Power!

Muslima wrote: I hope to learn and learn more and more from my Muslim brothers and sisters here InshAllah.

So why is it that I get the strong impression that you are only interested in learning from those that can reinforce your fragile, twisted and disturbed viewpoint? I'm afraid you will never learn, meaningful learning requires a will take on board things you might not like to hear.

Until we learn that we are ALL brothers and sisters in this fragile world, none of us will ever learn anything.

I've said it before, but why not...

He who speaks does not know

He who knows, does not speak.

Lao Tse

Colin wrote: Muslima wrote: I hope to learn and learn more and more from my Muslim brothers and sisters here InshAllah. So why is it that I get the strong impression that you are only interested in learning from those that can reinforce your fragile, twisted and disturbed viewpoint?

the above thing should be said to you colin and your people that you people are only interested in learning from those that can reinforce your fragile, twisted and disturbed viewpoint !

insha Allah muslima will learn more and more from her muslim brothers and sisters here

"My image"?  I live in Spain, sweetheart, a country with a better way of looking at the beauties and joys of life

I have grown to agree with all your posts, but this one will stand out as an exception. Sorry, Spain is not a country with a better way of looking at the beauties and the joys of life.

It's the single most beautiful old cultured soul and the best place on earth for looking at the beauties and joys of life.

Yasta! 

salman_s wrote: the above thing should be said to you colin and your people that you people are only interested in learning from those that can reinforce your fragile, twisted and disturbed viewpoint !

.....said the chief spokesman for the Salman and Muslima Martyrs Brigade.

Colin wrote: salman_s wrote: the above thing should be said to you colin and your people that you people are only interested in learning from those that can reinforce your fragile, twisted and disturbed viewpoint !   .....said the chief spokesman for the Salman and Muslima Martyrs Brigade.

wrong !

......said by muslims who care for their muslim brothers and sisters, who are suffering !

Colin, I can tell you at least 90% of muslims think like me. Go and travel and you will see by yourself.

Anything that you do not like, you dismiss.You do not like Muslims, you want to contril them. This is the reason why you are here.

We are all brothers: is this what the soldiers thought when they were raling my brothers in Abu Ghraib? and this is only the tip of the iceberg. You should know that those people now have nothing to lose at all. That should worry you.

Yes, of course, we should live it to you Brits. You started the mess there.

I think you should find yopurself a Mormon forum and whatever it is they call themselves.

(y ya est�!)

Muslima wrote: Actually, The Talibans came into power thanks to the Americans. They were even invited in the White House because the Americans wanted to build an oleoduc across the country. I am sure I have already said that. You do not wish to learn, this is hopeless. If you want to speak about poltics, you need to be educated and know what you are talking about, and not spit out the false information you have been brainswashed into your head since you came to this life. This is what they do in America. What is the help the Americans brought to Afghanistan or Irak? Only misery! People in the UK can testify there was a program recently (and once again I have already said that but you do not want to learn or listen to anything) and it was about iraki women. They all said that Americans had to go because they brought only misery to their country. You do not know how much peple hate you because you do not understand how much you hurt people everyday everwhere, not only in Muslim countries. Also in Asia and Latinoamerica. Thank God, we have people like Chavez to help the poeple in your continent! But you are so puritan and have such a good conscious about yourself, because you were fed this since your birth....This is impossible to reason an American, impossible!!!

I didn't ask for a history lesson, dear, I asked your opinion on Saddam and his sons who raped and tortured thousands of Iraqi women.  I know history much more than you could ever expect.  I'm not asking history questions here.  You simply "change the subject" when you're asked a question straight up!  Hmmm, wonder why that could be??

I don't deny America has made mistakes.  YOU are the one who cannot see any mistake made by even the most evil people of the Middle East.  Talk about wearing rose colored glasses. 

As we all know this site is monitored by the CIA, FBI, and other American undercover agencies, is it really true, as you have said that you are joining with your terrorist Al-Queda brothers, even to the point of wearing a suicide vest?  Can you at least answer that question?

As I have said....now listen carefully this time....AMERICA HAS MADE MANY MISTAKES.  Okay, got it now??  But we do not set out, or send out our young people to blow themselves up in order to kill innocent children and babies.....to deliberately target the most innocent of all for death because of extreme hatred for their race or religion.  AMERICA does not do that.....but YOU believe in it.  You have said you would do it.  How evil can one be?????

Casserole, I am happy you show your agressive side. Unfortunately, you are not in israrel and you cannot kill me. Too bad, dear.

patty if you knew aboyt history, then you would know that Saddam Hussein was put into power by the CIA. The whole of Europe knows that and I have already written it, but you are too brainwashed to understand that.

I am not answering any questions dear.

Suicide bombers have only this means of fighting back. This is their last chance.

I hope inshAllah i have many children. I will all call them O, even the girls. See of you get it.

"I am not answering any questions dear."

Wow!  What a surprise.  I know who put Saddam into power, AND I ALSO KNOW WHO TOOK HIM OUT. 

You will not answer, because to answer you would be forced to admit to the many rapes, torture methods, and slaughter of innocents commited by Saddam and his rich little sons.  And as you refuse to see or openly admit any wrongs committed by those in the Middle East, this would be far too much for you to ever admit.  BTW, since you're such a lover of history, do you remember how Saddam and  his evil compadres killed thier own citizens....gassed them, I believe....the men, women, children, and infants??  I still see those innocent bodies in my mind.

Yes, Muslima, AMERICA, with all her many mistakes (and there have been many) has never stooped to the level of slaughtering her own innocent citizens.  The only thing that reigns in Iraq is hatred and evil.  Brother against brother.....there is NO unity or solidarity in the ME.  I really don't understand why this is so.

America put him in power. I never supported him. What are you talking about woman?!

hatred and Evil created by you puritan hypocrites. On Judgement day, you will not have the possibility to hide behinf your self-approving good puritan conscious. You will have to answer to those people and I do not know what you will answer.....

As I have said....now listen carefully this time....AMERICA HAS MADE MANY MISTAKES.  Okay, got it now??  But we do not set out, or send out our young people to blow themselves up in order to kill innocent children and babies.....

At least for once we agree on something!

You are absoultely right . . . we don't have to set out our young people to blow themselves up in order to kill innocent children and babies . . . of course you don't have no need to do that, the US does it from 52,000 feet up in the air . . the age of Aquarius!

to deliberately target the most innocent of all for death because of extreme hatred for their race or religion. 

Do you yourself also believe in fairytales or just want us (who have seen it all) to start believing in such patriotic hogwash, your Extreme US Imperial Highness?

I am siting down on my computer so could I, please, courtesy later?

"At least for once we agree on something!"

Be still my heart!

"Do you yourself also believe in fairytales or just want us (who have seen it all) to start believing in such patriotic hogwash,

I don't believe in fairytales at all, whisper.  What "fairytales" are you referring to....that suicide bombers DO NOT slaughter innocent babies when they ignite their suicide vests??  That's no fairytale, my friend, that's a fact." 

"your Extreme US Imperial Highness?"

Grow up....rude name-calling is very unbecoming on a person of your age.  Very childish behavior!

Everything is rude to you patsy! You also stress the killing on one side, but not on your side. They are the ones instigating everything.

Your soldiers and your politicians as well as your businessmen are terrorists, murderers and criminals.

If you wanted to do the world a favour patsy, you would blow yourself up where there is a high concentration of soldiers, politicians and businessmen. Can you find that for us?

"I wish I could vote for you Whisper! MashAllah!!"

Teacher's Pet.....Teacher's Pet!!  Get a grip girl!

Yes, Muslima, AMERICA, with all her many mistakes (and there have been many)

Could you sincerely count a few or is this just one of your hollow gesture?

has never stooped to the level of slaughtering her own innocent citizens. 

Agreed. They don't have to. They slaughter and support their puppets in the slaughtering games. Surely you don't want me to name just a few well known puppets?

The only thing that reigns in Iraq is hatred and evil.  Brother against brother.....

Agreed. Since 23rd or was it the 21st March 2003?

there is NO unity or solidarity in the ME.  I really don't understand why this is so.

We really thought you knew it all. Why this sudden turn?

Have you thought about my proposition? You could save many lives!!!

Who are you addressing, Mujahida?

If that one then please see that she is only ever interested in saving those fading colours of a flag.

Nothing else.

Patsy, this is hopeless. You have to re-do your whole education. You understand nothing of the Muslims world and international politics.

I cannot believe you learnt nothing in 5 years......

Flies...Honey....Vinegar.....?????? Sasha, didn�t we agree on this?  You are so busy biting each other�s fingers that you have lost the view(point).  Patty, Whisper has many good reasons for his anger.  Whisper, Patty isn�t America. She hates much of what her country stands for, as do 67% of her countrymen.  She is trying to understand or she wouldn�t be here would she? Perhaps you both need to read a little Marcel Proust:

"The real voyage of discovery lies not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes."

Can�t we put some of this energy into The Angela Plan? This bickering between you really saddens me. You are both too skillful with words to waste them like this.

Have you thought about my proposition? You could save many lives!!!

Who are you addressing, Mujahida?

If that one then please see that she is only ever interested in saving those fading colours of a flag.

Nothing else.

I was addressing her...for a laugh!

Flies...Honey....Vinegar.....?????? Sasha, didn�t we agree on this?  You are so busy biting each other�s fingers that you have lost the view(point).  Patty, Whisper has many good reasons for his anger.  Whisper, Patty isn�t America. She hates much of what her country stands for, as do 33% of her countrymen.  She is trying to understand or she wouldn�t be here would she? Perhaps you both need to read a little Marcel Proust:

"The real voyage of discovery lies not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes."

Can�t we put some of this energy into The Angela Plan? This bickering between you really saddens me. You are both too skillful with words to waste them like this.

"I was addressing her...for a laugh! "

I feel sorry for you, Muslima.  You are not just filled and consumed by hate, you really are mentally ill and in need of help.  IF Whisper wanted to do something productive for a fellow Muslim, he should urge you to seek help for your own sake.

God's Peace.

"If that one then please see that she is only ever interested in saving those fading colours of a flag."

Nothing could be further from the truth.  I am sorry for the hurt you have suffered....even though you have not shared that with me.  And you don't need to....I believe you have suffered.  I am truly sorry for that.

God's Peace.....

Could you recommend me someone, please Patsy!

Maybe I could visit your own therapist, What do you say? Could you recommend me?

I genuinely have no hate for you Patsy. I am saying things you would hear in Muslim countries but you are not willing to learn. You are patronising and seeking censorship. before me, was whipser, and after me, there will also be another Muslim.

You can't stop of from thinking.