Thousands die in Indonesian quake
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Topic: Thousands die in Indonesian quake
Posted By: salman_s
Subject: Thousands die in Indonesian quake
Date Posted: 27 May 2006 at 4:53am
Thousands die in Indonesian quake |
More than 2,700 people have been killed and thousands more injured by a strong earthquake that struck the Indonesian island of Java, officials have said.
The quake, measuring 6.2, flattened buildings in a densely-populated area south of the city of Yogyakarta, near the southern coast of Java.
Witnesses said people fled as their homes collapsed around them, after the quake struck early in the morning.
Electricity and communications across the city were also down, police said.
At least 2,900 people have been injured, and many more are still thought to be trapped under rubble and collapsed buildings.
Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono has ordered the military to help evacuate victims, and plans to visit the area later on Saturday.
Yogyakarta's airport was closed. Local media said the runway had cracked and part of a roof had caved in.
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The quake left the dazed and injured scattered in the streets
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Yogyakarta is near the Mount Merapi volcano, which threatened to erupt earlier this month, forcing thousands of people to be evacuated.
The earthquake is not thought to be caused by the volcano, but there are reports of heightened activity in its vicinity.
Officials said that although the area affected was coastal there was no tsunami resulting from the quake.
'Concrete chunks'
The quake hit at 0554 local time (2253 GMT Friday), around 25km (15 miles) south of the city of Yogyakarta, the US Geological Survey (USGS) said.
Yogyakarta, Indonesia's ancient royal capital and one of its biggest cities, is about 440km (275 miles) south-east of the capital, Jakarta.
"The earthquake was felt to be massive - larger than the locals here say they've felt in their lives," said Brook Weisman-Ross, regional disaster co-ordinator for Plan International children's charity in Java.
"I was shaken from my bed... As furniture was falling, concrete chunks started falling from my hotel room as people were running out in panic in their bedclothes," he told the BBC.
He said there was extensive damage across the city and that many of the smaller, older houses had collapsed.
But a wide swathe south of the city, in the Bantul and Kulonprogo regions, appears to be the worst hit.
The BBC's Orlando Guzman in Yogyakarta says every other house on the main road south of the city is either flattened or seriously damaged.
Aftershocks
The death toll rose steadily as hospitals around Yogyakarta reported a growing number of fatalities.
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INDONESIA'S WORST RECENT EARTHQUAKES
March 2005 - Magnitude 8.7 earthquake kills 1,300 people on the island of Nias off Sumatra
Dec 2004 - Indian Ocean tsunami, resulting from a 9.3 magnitude earthquake off northwest Sumatra, kills more than 200,000 people across the Indian Ocean region
June 2000 - Indian Ocean earthquake magnitude 7.9 kills more than 120 people in Bengkulu province, Sumatra
Feb 1996 - Magnitude 8.2 earthquake near Biak Island off Irian Jaya triggers tsunami leaving more than 100 dead
Dec 1992 - More than 2,000 people die in a 7.8 magnitude earthquake and resulting tsunami on the island of Flores east of Bali |
Local radio said there were not enough doctors to cope with the numbers of injured.
People were ferried to hospital in lorries and buses, or made the journey on foot, because of a shortage of ambulances.
Aftershocks have forced medical staff to move injured patients outside.
Our correspondent says people here, who have been leaving in fear of a volcanic eruption for weeks, are very much still on edge. Many are still afraid to go back to their houses.
Mosques, churches and hospitals have been housing people who have fled their homes.
"We're still afraid. We don't want to go home," said Hendra, one of hundreds of people who took refuge at Yogyakarta's Marganingsih Catholic Church.
Indonesia is in a zone known as the Pacific "ring of fire", which is prone to earthquakes and volcanic activity.
In December 2004, a huge earthquake off Indonesia's coast killed hundreds of thousands of people across the Indian Ocean by triggering a tsunami.
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Replies:
Posted By: salman_s
Date Posted: 27 May 2006 at 4:54am
Posted By: ak_m_f
Date Posted: 27 May 2006 at 5:46am
salman_s wrote:
Allah is the greatest |
I dont know, sounds kinda wierd..
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Posted By: Alwardah
Date Posted: 27 May 2006 at 11:45am
As Salamu alaikum
Inna lillahi wa Inna ilahi Raji'un
May Allah Ta'ala grant Sabr to the families of the deceased. Ameen!
Wa alaikum Salam
------------- �Verily your Lord is quick in punishment; yet He is indeed Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful (Surah Al-An�am 6:165)
"Indeed, we belong to Allah and to Him is our return" (Surah Baqarah 2: 155)
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Posted By: Suleyman
Date Posted: 27 May 2006 at 1:34pm
Posted By: salman_s
Date Posted: 28 May 2006 at 7:16am
Allah's wrath comes on people where there are a lot of sins being practised. we must constantly fear Allah
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Posted By: ak_m_f
Date Posted: 28 May 2006 at 10:57am
salman_s wrote:
Allah's wrath comes on people where there are a lot of sins being practised. we must constantly fear Allah |
what sin is going on in Indonesia ?
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Posted By: Suleyman
Date Posted: 28 May 2006 at 11:09am
salman_s wrote:
Allah's wrath comes on people where there are a lot of sins being practiced. we must constantly fear Allah |
Brother Salman,what kind of a Islamic reference lying behind your words?,far as i know Indonesia is part of Islam World,
Please do not use the terms of Sunnetullah with some happenings you hear on your beside without knowing their backgrounds,if i were in Indonesia and hearing your words it could drop a fire in my heart...If it is a rule why Indonesia and why not Las Vegas,but also 20.000 Muslims live in Las Vegas???,can you see the silly parameter that proves your assumption is wrong?....
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Posted By: -ArabianKnight-
Date Posted: 28 May 2006 at 12:33pm
ak_m_f wrote:
salman_s wrote:
Allah's wrath comes on people where there are a lot of sins being practised. we must constantly fear Allah |
what sin is going on in Indonesia ?
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Maybe they broke the law of Sins... ... Its known to happen.. you know..
------------- THere Is no god, BUT GOD
and Adam was his First Messenger
_____________________________
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Posted By: superme
Date Posted: 28 May 2006 at 7:19pm
salman_s wrote:
Allah's wrath comes on people where there are a lot of sins being practised. we must constantly fear Allah |
Please help them if you able to do so. If you have experienced living a life on the receiving end you know what it is all about.
A kind word with forgiveness is better than almsgiving followed by injury. Allah is Absolute, Clement. (2:263)
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Posted By: ak_m_f
Date Posted: 28 May 2006 at 7:27pm
-ArabianKnight- wrote:
ak_m_f wrote:
salman_s wrote:
Allah's wrath comes on people where there are a lot of sins being practised. we must constantly fear Allah | what sin is going on in Indonesia ? | Maybe they broke the law of Sins... ... Its known to happen.. you know.. |
Imagine what will happen if u break co-sin law ?!
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Posted By: -ArabianKnight-
Date Posted: 28 May 2006 at 8:40pm
Actually no.. I shouldnt Joke... 5k Dead; as are the current figures... If this is God's Handy work... he sure is letting off alittle steam...
we pesky humans... all that fornication and sinning in Europe/America is taking its toll on the rest of the world.
------------- THere Is no god, BUT GOD
and Adam was his First Messenger
_____________________________
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Posted By: salman_s
Date Posted: 28 May 2006 at 11:21pm
yes, it is also one of the signs of qiyamah that Allah's wrath comes on the believers (muslims)
indonesia is the largest muslim population in the world. but the muslims there are not practising islam sincerely. they are moving away from islam. and Allah knows best what sins are taking place there. the tsunami is a lesson to all indonesian muslims to fear Allah and follow islam sincerely. nobody is trying there to work on buliding iman (faith in Allah). it is every muslim's responsibilty to work on building his iman. for that you need to organize religious islamic gatherings. we indian muslims are working hard on building our iman masha Allah
it is high time for the indonesian muslims to get back to islam and fear Allah and follow islam sincerely.
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Posted By: Colin
Date Posted: 29 May 2006 at 12:17am
salman_s wrote:
indonesia is the largest muslim population in the world. but the muslims there are not practising islam sincerely. |
How do you know this? Have you been to Indonesia?
Who knows, perhaps your tacit support for OBL on this forum, means that a minor earthquake is due in Salman's back garden..
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Posted By: -ArabianKnight-
Date Posted: 29 May 2006 at 12:29am
Salman wrote:
it is high time for the indonesian muslims to get back to islam and fear Allah and follow islam sincerely. |
Kind of like what you're doing Salman?... Beliving like you?... Condemning Evolution, dinosaurs and blindly following some random Imam's who happen to think like the ones you grew up with?
Saying "follow Islam Sincerly" is as vague as a nostradamus prophecy..
Sorry, but.. everything happens for a reason, and not everything is punishment from God..
A large meteor heading towards earth could bring the population together... channel the destructive forces and nukes to take out "The SheDevil" as they will come to call the Asteroid.
------------- THere Is no god, BUT GOD
and Adam was his First Messenger
_____________________________
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Posted By: mariyah
Date Posted: 29 May 2006 at 1:44am
Supplication for the deceased:
Inna lillahi ma akhadha, wlahu ma a ta, wa kullu shay'in Inddaju bi ajalin-mussama (fal-tasbir-wal-tahtasib)
{Surely Allah (swt) takes what is His, and what He gives is His: and to all things He has appointed a time (so have patience and be rewarded)}
May Allah (swt) protect the survivors and give them strength!
------------- "Every good deed is charity whether you come to your brother's assistance or just greet him with a smile.
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Posted By: Angel
Date Posted: 29 May 2006 at 3:05am
salman_s wrote:
yes, it is also one of the signs of qiyamah that Allah's wrath comes on the believers (muslims)
indonesia is the largest muslim population in the world. but the muslims there are not practising islam sincerely. they are moving away from islam. and Allah knows best what sins are taking place there. the tsunami is a lesson to all indonesian muslims to fear Allah and follow islam sincerely. nobody is trying there to work on buliding iman (faith in Allah). it is every muslim's responsibilty to work on building his iman. for that you need to organize religious islamic gatherings. we indian muslims are working hard on building our iman masha Allah
it is high time for the indonesian muslims to get back to islam and fear Allah and follow islam sincerely.
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Salman, well you may believe what you wrote above, but study the geology of the earth, please. Not everything pertains to God's wrath, actually I don't believe any natural disasters is from God's wrath myself.
The earth is a violent place, whenever there is stresses and movement of tectonic plates, the earth is going to let go and shift and normally it is in the form of eathquakes.
And volcanos, well similar activities.
What lies underneath the crust is a very active earth The earth is always evolving and changing. The lands/continents are actually moving.
------------- ~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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Posted By: sayariza
Date Posted: 29 May 2006 at 3:23am
salman_s wrote:
yes, it is also one of the signs of qiyamah that Allah's wrath comes on the believers (muslims)
indonesia is the largest muslim population in the world. but the muslims there are not practising islam sincerely. they are moving away from islam. and Allah knows best what sins are taking place there. the tsunami is a lesson to all indonesian muslims to fear Allah and follow islam sincerely. nobody is trying there to work on buliding iman (faith in Allah). it is every muslim's responsibilty to work on building his iman. for that you need to organize religious islamic gatherings. we indian muslims are working hard on building our iman masha Allah
it is high time for the indonesian muslims to get back to islam and fear Allah and follow islam sincerely. |
instead of bashing Indonesians what are you doing? you said : "but the muslims there are not practising islam sincerely" sounds racist ...you should know Islam forbides any form of racist..
there are already 5500 people dead, most of them are muslims, do you know? if someone has decreed shahadat, she/he is muslim
do you not shame on your self and then curse you muslim brothers and sisters as not good muslim ? you have never been there..you never met them b4.. Only Allah knows who good or who bad..not you...
If you see one indonesian steals something, you can not take conclusion that all indonesians are thieves..that's happened in this case too, bacause you see some Indonesians do not practise Islam very well you blame all indonesians are bad muslims..wow very clever
People who want to help, plz visit this website
the victim would increased until 15.000-30.000..because one city Bantul is 85% destroyed by this disaster,.... (bantul is a religious city, this city has 700 000 people, the Islamic parties have 21 of 35 total seats, this city has 8 pesantrens (madrasa with boarding an has toatally students = 40.000, this city is always considered as one of green belts (strength Islamic area) in centrale java)
http://www.pkpu.or.id/english/index.php">
------------- Islam is light
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Posted By: salman_s
Date Posted: 29 May 2006 at 4:45am
Angel wrote:
Salman, well you may believe what you wrote above, but study the geology of the earth, please. Not everything pertains to God's wrath, actually I don't believe any natural disasters is from God's wrath myself.
The earth is a violent place, whenever there is stresses and movement of tectonic plates, the earth is going to let go and shift and normally it is in the form of eathquakes.
And volcanos, well similar activities.
What lies underneath the crust is a very active earth The earth is always evolving and changing. The lands/continents are actually moving.
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hi angel
who causes stresses and movements of volcanic plates which results in earthquakes? it is Allah (alone) who does that
who causes volacanoes to occur and the earth plates to shift? it is Allah (alone) who does that
Allah has mentioned in the Qur'an that Allah forgives whom he wills and Allah punishes whom he wills.
Allah's punishment has come on the indonesians, and it is high time that indonesian muslims repent to Allah of their past sins and get back to the path of goodness and sincerely practise islam
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Posted By: salman_s
Date Posted: 29 May 2006 at 4:52am
sayariza wrote:
salman_s wrote:
yes, it is also one of the signs of qiyamah that Allah's wrath comes on the believers (muslims)
indonesia is the largest muslim population in the world. but the muslims there are not practising islam sincerely. they are moving away from islam. and Allah knows best what sins are taking place there. the tsunami is a lesson to all indonesian muslims to fear Allah and follow islam sincerely. nobody is trying there to work on buliding iman (faith in Allah). it is every muslim's responsibilty to work on building his iman. for that you need to organize religious islamic gatherings. we indian muslims are working hard on building our iman masha Allah
it is high time for the indonesian muslims to get back to islam and fear Allah and follow islam sincerely.
|
instead of bashing Indonesians what are you doing? you said : "but the muslims there are not practising islam sincerely" sounds racist ...you should know Islam forbides any form of racist..
there are already 5500 people dead, most of them are muslims, do you know? if someone has decreed shahadat, she/he is muslim
do you not shame on your self and then curse you muslim brothers and sisters as not good muslim ? you have never been there..you never met them b4.. Only Allah knows who good or who bad..not you...
If you see one indonesian steals something, you can not take conclusion that all indonesians are thieves..that's happened in this case too, bacause you see some Indonesians do not practise Islam very well you blame all indonesians are bad muslims..wow very clever
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i think you are an indonesian or you have some relatives in indonesia or something�. that is why your resonse is a harsh one.
Allah has mentioned in the Qur'an that Allah forgives whom he wills and Allah punishes whom he wills.
Allah's punishment has come on the indonesians, and it is high time that indonesian muslims repent to Allah of their past sins and get back to the path of goodness and sincerely practise islam
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Posted By: salman_s
Date Posted: 29 May 2006 at 5:19am
The Earthquakes
http://www.islaam.com/Scholar.aspx?id=96 - Shaykh Saalih al-Hamraani
Translation of a Khutbah (08/27/99)
Have fear and consciousness of Allah subhanahu wa ta`ala and ponder over events that happen around you. Learn lessons from them and remember, for the intelligent one is he who remembers and takes admonition.
The topic of this khutbah is the destructive earthquake that hit part of Turkey. The earthquake which caused thousands of people to die, caused loss of wealth and properties, and forced people to seek refuge outside of their dwellings, now being without their home and their wealth, and without food and drink. The earthquake which turned security into fear, richness into poverty, caused joined families to depart, and turned life into death. Without doubt, in it is a lesson for those who take lessons and a reminder for those who remember, so that they may return to their Lord and their Creator.
The Truthful, the Chosen one (as-Saadiq al-Mustafa), sallallahu `alayhi wa sallam, has informed us that a multitude of earthquakes is a sign of the proximity of the Hour. He informed us that they would be many at the end of the time.
Ahmad relates in a hadeeth narrated by Abu Hurairah, radhiallahu `anhu, that the Prophet, sallallahu `alayhi wa sallam said, "The Hour will not happen until knowledge is taken out, time passes quickly, earthquakes increase in number, tribulations (fitan) appear, and al-Harj increases in number." It was said, "What is al-Harj, O Rasoolullah?" He said, "Al Qatl, al Qatl (Killing)".
A lot of what is mentioned in this hadeeth has already materialized.
Happenings of earthquakes and the like from other destructive and disastrous events are the greatest evidence of the astonishing power of Allah subhanahu wa ta`ala. Earthquakes are from among the soldiers of Allah, subhanahu wa ta`ala, subjected to His order. He, subhanahu wa ta`ala, causes fear in the hearts of those whom He wills, teaches lessons whom He wills and punishes whom He wills.
"And none can know the Forces of your Lord, except He." (74:31)
"For to Allah belong the Forces of the heavens and the earth." (48:7)
If the Ummah leaves Allah's Sharee`ah, ignores the Deen of Allah ta`ala and follows its enemies, Allah will subjugate it to His armies, which no one knows except He. From among these armies are the earthquakes.
"Such is the Seizure of your Lord when He seizes the towns while they are doing wrong. Verily, His Seizure is painful and severe." (11:102)
"When We decide to destroy a town, We (first) send a definite order (to obey Allah and be righteous) to those among them who are given the good things of this life. Then, they transgress therein, and thus the word (of torment) is justified against (them). Then we destroy it with complete destruction." (17:16)
Allah, subhanahu wa ta`ala, with this earthquake makes clear to His servants a plain reality, that the kingdom of the heavens and the earth is in His Hands, subhanahu wa ta`ala, and that He is the Irresistible and Dominant over His servants.
Some people may be astonished by what the West has from the materialistic power, from various weapons, aircraft carriers, bombs, satellites etc., and they forget that Allah, subhanahu wa ta`ala, allowed that piece of land to move and shake, being able to shake the force of the West and the East. Everything is in His Hands, He has power over all things, and no one in the Heavens and the Earth can weaken Him, subhanahu wa ta`ala. Appearance of the earthquakes therefore points us to a different reality that may be absent in the minds of some people, those who are busy with this world and who are servants of materialism.
This earthquake also reminds us of the Day of Judgment. The Day when all of the Earth will shake, and not only one part of it. Allahu subhanahu wa ta`ala says,
"O mankind! Fear your Lord and be dutiful to Him! Verily, the earthquake of the Hour is a terrible thing. The Day you shall see it, every nursing mother will forget her nursling, and every pregnant one shall drop her load, and you shall see mankind as in a drunken state. Yet they will not be drunken, but the Torment of Allah will be severe." (22:1-2)
Look what is left after the earthquake from destroyed buildings and houses, deaths of thousands, and families seeking refuge outside of their homes. What state is that in which everyone is running away, caring about nothing? So what do you think of the Day of Judgment?
"That Day shall a man flee from his own brother, and from his mother and his father, and from his wife and his children." (80:34-36)
"One the day (when the first blowing of the Trumpet is blown), the earth and the mountains will shake violently." (79:6)
Allah ta`ala warns His servants with this earthquake to learn a lesson and be admonished, and to be ready and prepare themselves for the Day of sorting out, the day of the great earthquake, that will shake all of the earth.
Allah ta`ala has placed in this universe Sunan, fixed and manifest laws, neither do they change nor are they replaceable. He does not have any kinship with anyone, He is the sole Creator and Ruler, and He will question and hold accountable everyone, including prophets and messengers. "Then surely, We shall question those to whom it (the Book) was sent and We shall question the Messengers." (7:6)
From among the established Sunan of Allah is that He does not send punishment except due to sin and He does not remove it except after repentance. Allah ta`ala says, "Whatever misfortune befalls you, it is because of what your hands have earned." (42:30)
Allah the Mighty and Majestic says: "Evil and mischief have appeared on land and sea because of what the hands of men have earned, that Allah may make them taste a part of that which they have done, in order that they may return (by repenting to Allah)." [30:41]
Every disaster and every calamity that befalls the servants is due to their sins and wrongdoing. So know, servants of Allah, what wrongdoing does to its doers.
What has taken Adam and Eve from the Jannah except wrongdoing, and what Has drowned all of the people on the earth at the time of Nooh, to the point that water reached the peak of mountains, except wrongdoing?
Who is it who sent the furious violent wind upon the people of `Aad, so that they were seen lying overthrown and destroyed, as if they were hollow trunks of palm-trees? Who is it who sent the awful cry upon the people of Thamud until it cut their hearts inside their bodies, and they all fell dead without exception? Who lifted the villages of the people of Loot till the angels heard barking of their dogs, then turned them upside down, and then rained upon them a rain of stones?
That is the immediate punishment for wrongdoing: drowning, fire, earthquakes, destruction, famine, raging wind... "And the torment of the hereafter is far more severe and more lasting." (20:127)
Do we not take admonition and lesson? Allah subhanahu wa ta`ala says, "Did We not destroy the ancients? So shall We make the later generations to follow them. Thus do We deal with the Mujrimoon (criminals, disbelievers, sinners.). Woe that Day to the deniers (of the Day of Resurrection)!" [77:16-19]
The earthquake of Turkey is just a warning from Allah, subhanahu wa ta`ala - not only to the people of that country alone, but rather to the Muslims in general, in all lands - that they may return to their Lord and their Deen. Otherwise a punishment will come upon them. Allah ta`ala says, "So We seized each of them for his sins." (29:40)
Many of the Muslims today have gathered many sins. We see those who delay and neglect prayers, eat haram, deal with riba, do not fulfill their trusts, order the evil and forbid the good. Those who indulge in mixing, display of awra, listening to music and songs, and those who have abandoned the Qur'an. All these exist in our society. Let us fear Allah subhanahu wa ta`ala and preserve what we have from the blessings, for wrongdoing removes blessings, rather it changes it to a curse. And let us be warned of an evil end, for Allah gives us a chance but is not neglectful. What has happened to the previous nations and some of the current ones will happen to us if we obey the Shaytan and go far from the path of the Most Merciful. These are the sunan of Allah that will never change.
"Or do you feel secure that He, Who is over the Heaven, will not cause the earth to sink with you, then behold it shakes (as in an earthquake)? Or do you feel secure that He, Who is over the heaven, will not send against you a violent whirlwind? Then you shall know how (terrible) was My Warning." (67:16-17)
Let us pause and ask ourselves what has been the tangible impact on us since we have heard and seen this earthquake, and what it has left from the mighty and scary destruction that makes the hearts bleed. The happy one is one who learns from the calamity of others, and the sad one is by whom these calamities pass while he takes no lesson from them.
Just recently the sun eclipsed, then followed the floods, then the strong wind, and then this earthquake happened. The people are still as they were before, you see no change. You do not see people going back to the path of Allah and you do not see any crowds in mosques. It is unfortunate that the explanation offered for these events is that they are normal natural disasters, and that they do not link it to what happens to people due to their wrongdoing. Theirs is clearly an incorrect interpretation.
"And We sent not the signs except to warn, and to make them afraid (of destruction)." (17:59)
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Posted By: sayariza
Date Posted: 29 May 2006 at 7:18am
salman_s wrote:
sayariza wrote:
salman_s wrote:
yes, it is also one of the signs of qiyamah that Allah's wrath comes on the believers (muslims)
indonesia is the largest muslim population in the world. but the muslims there are not practising islam sincerely. they are moving away from islam. and Allah knows best what sins are taking place there. the tsunami is a lesson to all indonesian muslims to fear Allah and follow islam sincerely. nobody is trying there to work on buliding iman (faith in Allah). it is every muslim's responsibilty to work on building his iman. for that you need to organize religious islamic gatherings. we indian muslims are working hard on building our iman masha Allah
it is high time for the indonesian muslims to get back to islam and fear Allah and follow islam sincerely.
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instead of bashing Indonesians what are you doing? you said : "but the muslims there are not practising islam sincerely" sounds racist ...you should know Islam forbides any form of racist..
there are already 5500 people dead, most of them are muslims, do you know? if someone has decreed shahadat, she/he is muslim
do you not shame on your self and then curse you muslim brothers and sisters as not good muslim ? you have never been there..you never met them b4.. Only Allah knows who good or who bad..not you...
If you see one indonesian steals something, you can not take conclusion that all indonesians are thieves..that's happened in this case too, bacause you see some Indonesians do not practise Islam very well you blame all indonesians are bad muslims..wow very clever
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i think you are an indonesian or you have some relatives in indonesia or something�. that is why your resonse is a harsh one.
Allah has mentioned in the Qur'an that Allah forgives whom he wills and Allah punishes whom he wills.
Allah's punishment has come on the indonesians, and it is high time that indonesian muslims repent to Allah of their past sins and get back to the path of goodness and sincerely practise islam |
can you write your own post: ? indonesia is the largest muslim population in the world. but the muslims there are not practising islam sincerely"
not all indonesian is like what you said even you have never been there even you have never met them it makes what you tell about the muslims there is not practising islam sounds like an urban legend
In country you said the muslims there is not practising islam sincerely. from 275 regents, 20 regents use shariah at this moment, it will be 100 regents in 2009.
in country you said the muslims there is not practising Islam, this country is dare to say to condo , we support Palestine, we support Hamas goverment..
in country you said the muslims there is not practising Islam, people of this country demontrated 2 weeks ago in 165 cities, there were attended by 2.5 million people to support Palestine and hamas Govt while most Islamic countries (i said most..) are silence..
in country you said that the muslims there is not practising Islam, we give 1.5 million dollar for Palestine (by govt) and 1. million by people
in country you said that the muslims there is not practsing Islam, this country is dare to say to the world " we support nuclear program of Iran, because nuclear techonology may not be monopolied" in country you said that the muslims there is not practising Islam, this country is dare to say to the miss Condy when she asked the chairman of parlement if this country wants to open relationship with israel : "we never ever want to reacognize Israel, never ever" just one sentence.
the problem is you said: the muslims there is not practising Islam
it is similar you point your finger to muslims in that area is not practising Islam..
Do you know at the war in the middle 19 centuries they lost almost 60.000 people in 5 years war , because Dutch wanted to destroy a mosque because Dutch wanted to make road? those number was only for a mosque...mosque...you know a mosque of 10x4 mtr .. do you know in 1910 when Dutch tried once there were a big riot and 3000 dead and than plan was canceled forever after that..
what were you doing while babri mosque were destroyed?
if some of them are not good muslims, how can you blame that the muslims there are not good muslim
You just make generalization about what you do not know..
if you said The muslims there are not good muslim , that is offending.. it will be different than you said : some of muslims are not practising islam
remember : you have no right to evaluate "imaan" of a muslim that is not your right, 100% not. ===============
You said Allah's punishment
has come on the indonesians.. how do you know that is a punishment? how do you people who are not involved in thgis disaster they are not punished? The good muslim never takes a conclusion : "o this a punishment", we are learnt to say. it could be a punishment from God.
=================================
btw agree with you for this because you said
...it is high time that
indonesian muslims repent to Allah of their past sins and get back to
the path of goodness and sincerely practise islam..." it is actually not only for Indonesian but for all muslims, muslims everywhere are like one body...(sound familiar for you?) ================================= may Allah bless you May Allah bless All Muslims in Palestine, checnya, xinjiang, iraq, afghanistan, khasmir and everywhere
May Allah bless all of them: the victims and the survivals ================================================
I do not want to harsh you but should to keep your mouth if you do not know about that people. Offcourse thay are some people who are not good muslims, but can you can tell me (us), where is place on the earth at this time that 100% are good muslims? be careful with your language..words : "the muslims there" are different then "some of muslims there") The province were quake taken place are multicultural province; there are muslims, christians, hindu, budhism and even aninism. The worst disaster happenned in Bantul the most islamized city in that area.
I critisize you not because I am Indonesian, but because you makes so many mistakes..a lot of mistakes
salaam
"I do not want to continue this one..IF fellow forummers want to help, it is very good for them ...."
------------- Islam is light
|
Posted By: salman_s
Date Posted: 29 May 2006 at 7:36am
sayariza, please read the topic which i posted above The Earthquakes
|
Posted By: salman_s
Date Posted: 29 May 2006 at 8:01am
salman_s wrote:
Angel wrote:
Salman, well you may believe what you wrote above, but study the geology of the earth, please. Not everything pertains to God's wrath, actually I don't believe any natural disasters is from God's wrath myself.
The earth is a violent place, whenever there is stresses and movement of tectonic plates, the earth is going to let go and shift and normally it is in the form of eathquakes.
And volcanos, well similar activities.
What lies underneath the crust is a very active earth The earth is always evolving and changing. The lands/continents are actually moving.
|
hi angel
who causes stresses and movements of volcanic plates which results in earthquakes? it is Allah (alone) who does that
who causes volacanoes to occur and the earth plates to shift? it is Allah (alone) who does that
|
Allah is the One Who owns us fully and nothing happens in the universe except as a result of His will
|
Posted By: Hayfa
Date Posted: 29 May 2006 at 10:00am
I believe that Allah works beyond us. We have no idea the future of those people... they may be in Paradise.. we should not judge people. Death in this life will come to all of us. As this life is temporary I tend to think that death is not the end.. maybe by dying now they were relieved of some type of future suffering?
I may be way off base..
Besides, living near an active volcano is NOT a good thing. Science can tell you what will happen if you live on the edge of one of the moving plates.
May we each do what we can to help the living. Amen
------------- When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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Posted By: sayariza
Date Posted: 29 May 2006 at 10:03am
can you understand your own sentence:? why you ignore to answer my question? I make your sentence bigger to make you can read it..
you said :
the muslims there is not practising Islam...
just read my last post
you said it..
offcouse the disaster is God will i do not refuse that what I wrote is not about God as the decission maker for all things
but above you, your behavir , you are easy to judging people "not practising islam.."
but they way you tell blame that happened because the muslims there is not practising Islam...without seeing them, without meeting them, without knowing them
------------- Islam is light
|
Posted By: sayariza
Date Posted: 29 May 2006 at 10:42am
salman_s
indonesia is the largest muslim population in the world. but the
muslims there are not practising islam sincerely. they are moving away
from islam.....[/QUOTE wrote:
Is She muslima here below not practising Islam?
|
Is She muslima here below not practising Islam?
She is still praying to God... source: (http://www.republika.co.id/)
[http://www.thejakartapost.com/headlines.asp][/URL] Jakartapost (english)
Death toll rises, rescue efforts go on
The Jakarta Post, Jakarta The
death toll from Saturday's earthquake had reached more than 4,600 as of
late Sunday, as rescue workers continued to search for survivors.
Hospitals and medical staff remained overwhelmed as patients continued
to stream in. Around 200,000 people are thought to have been left
homeless by the quake, which hit 5.9 on the Richter scale, according to
the Meteorology and Geophysics Agency.
On a visit to Gontor Islamic school in Ponorogo, President Susilo
Bambang Yudhoyono said he would work from Yogyakarta with Cabinet
ministers so he could "directly supervise the evacuation process", said
his spokesman, Andi Mallarangeng.
A late night Cabinet meeting with Vice President Jusuf Kalla revealed
the government is setting aside Rp 1 trillion (about US$ 107.5 billion)
for one year, including Rp 300 billion for a three month emergency
relief phase, and the rest for reconstruction and rehabilitation. Electricity, telecommunications, and fuel supplies are yet to be restored to all quake-affected areas.
State Minister for State Enterprises Sugiharto said state power firm PT
PLN would have restored electricity in Central Java's Klaten regency,
Yogyakarta's metropolitan area and Bantul regency by Sunday, Antara reported.
Saturday's quake knocked out lines carrying 400 megawatts of power to
the area, with Yogyakarta's metropolitan area regaining electricity by
the day's end, but Klaten and Bantul still left in the dark. PLN will
bring in power directly from its West and Central Java grids.
Sugiharto also said state telecommunications firm PT Telkom had fixed
82 of the 112 telephone line towers damaged during the quake.
State oil and gas company PT Pertamina spokesperson M. Harun said
Yogyakarta's 60,700-kiloliter daily fuel requirements were being met by
supplies from the nearby cities of Cilacap, Solo, Cepu and Madiun. Yogyakarta's Adisucipto Airport is limited to humanitarian aid operations as repairs are still underway. Reuters reported medical supplies and body bags were arriving at the airport. From Bantul, south of the provincial capital, Agence France-Presse
reported thousands of troops and emergency rescue teams had joined
volunteers who were clawing at debris with their bare hands, but power
blackouts and heavy rain at dusk were hampering rescue efforts.
The stench of decomposing bodies filled the air as soldiers used a
backhoe to dig through the rubble in one neighborhood that was
completely leveled by the temblor. Yuni, in her 40s, searched frantically for her uncle, who lived with a maid at a house that had collapsed, AFP reported. Aid workers warned dwindling supplies of food and water and a lack of housing could pose long-term challenges.
In order to cater to the demand for blood, the Surabaya branch of the
Indonesian Red Cross was keeping its donation services open 24 hours,
the branch head said. UN Children's Fund spokesman John Budd told Reuters the number of people left homeless by the disaster was still vague. Inna lillahi rajiuun
------------- Islam is light
|
Posted By: Angel
Date Posted: 29 May 2006 at 10:55pm
salman_s wrote:
Angel wrote:
Salman, well you may believe what you wrote above, but study the geology of the earth, please. Not everything pertains to God's wrath, actually I don't believe any natural disasters is from God's wrath myself.
The earth is a violent place, whenever there is stresses and movement of tectonic plates, the earth is going to let go and shift and normally it is in the form of eathquakes.
And volcanos, well similar activities.
What lies underneath the crust is a very active earth The earth is always evolving and changing. The lands/continents are actually moving.
|
hi angel
who causes stresses and movements of volcanic plates which results in earthquakes? it is Allah (alone) who does that
who causes volacanoes to occur and the earth plates to shift? it is Allah (alone) who does that
Allah has mentioned in the Qur'an that Allah forgives whom he wills and Allah punishes whom he wills.
Allah's punishment has come on the indonesians, and it is high time that indonesian muslims repent to Allah of their past sins and get back to the path of goodness and sincerely practise islam
|
I am sorry I think that is crap, Then explain to me when earthquakes and underwater valcanos, or whatever, elsewhere where there are no people and yet these still occur.
If there were no people on indonesia and all this still happened, is God punishing then or is it just a normal natural movement of the earth? (perhasp God's doing)
I believe what happened or is happening in indonesia would have still happened if there were no people there and would not be a disaster.
No one ever says that it is god's punishment when it doesn't effect people directly or indirectly, amazing how that is It is always when people are affected, why is that so?
why is it different when people are involved than when it is not. These acts of the earth do not confine themselves to where people are only.
And it is only called a disaster when people are involved never when its in a place where no one gets hurt/affected.
Think a little Salman
------------- ~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
|
Posted By: salman_s
Date Posted: 29 May 2006 at 11:16pm
Angel wrote:
salman_s wrote:
Angel wrote:
Salman, well you may believe what you wrote above, but study the geology of the earth, please. Not everything pertains to God's wrath, actually I don't believe any natural disasters is from God's wrath myself.
The earth is a violent place, whenever there is stresses and movement of tectonic plates, the earth is going to let go and shift and normally it is in the form of eathquakes.
And volcanos, well similar activities.
What lies underneath the crust is a very active earth The earth is always evolving and changing. The lands/continents are actually moving.
|
hi angel
who causes stresses and movements of volcanic plates which results in earthquakes? it is Allah (alone) who does that
who causes volacanoes to occur and the earth plates to shift? it is Allah (alone) who does that
Allah has mentioned in the Qur'an that Allah forgives whom he wills and Allah punishes whom he wills.
Allah's punishment has come on the indonesians, and it is high time that indonesian muslims repent to Allah of their past sins and get back to the path of goodness and sincerely practise islam
|
I am sorry I think that is crap, Then explain to me when earthquakes and underwater valcanos, or whatever, elsewhere where there are no people and yet these still occur.
If there were no people on indonesia and all this still happened, is God punishing then or is it just a normal natural movement of the earth? (perhasp God's doing)
I believe what happened or is happening in indonesia would have still happened if there were no people there and would not be a disaster.
No one ever says that it is god's punishment when it doesn't effect people directly or indirectly, amazing how that is It is always when people are affected, why is that so?
why is it different when people are involved than when it is not. These acts of the earth do not confine themselves to where people are only.
And it is only called a disaster when people are involved never when its in a place where no one gets hurt/affected.
Think a little Salman
|
hi angel
how do you know that if there were no indonesians living in that region still the earthquakes would have occured?
and regarding other regions where no people live still earthquakes and volcanoes occur, then that is Allah's will. Allah does what he wills and we cannot question him.
|
Posted By: salman_s
Date Posted: 29 May 2006 at 11:21pm
sayariza, just by posting one woman who is praying you cannot say that the whole indonesian population is praying. and may be she prayed only after the earthquake struck. i just want to say that it is high time for the indonesians to turn to Allah in repentance and ask for forgiveness of their sins and pray that Allah saves them from all such calamities and disasters and Allah gives them patience in such situations.
|
Posted By: Angel
Date Posted: 29 May 2006 at 11:41pm
salman_s wrote:
[
hi angel
how do you know that if there were no indonesians living in that region still the earthquakes would have occured? |
By studying the geology of the earth, seeing where the tectonic plates are, volcanos etc. It's not that hard to see a mountain with a hole in it, and perhaps with smoking coming out
And oh because it is noted that area has these, so it would have happened anyway with or without people
and regarding other regions where no people live still earthquakes and volcanoes occur, then that is Allah's will. Allah does what he wills and we cannot question him. |
Typical answer that is non satisfactory and one that doesn't answer if you don't believe in God
Try again Salman
------------- ~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
|
Posted By: ops154
Date Posted: 29 May 2006 at 11:46pm
salman_s wrote:
yes, it is also one of the signs of qiyamah that Allah's wrath comes on the believers (muslims)
indonesia is the largest muslim population in the world. but the muslims there are not practising islam sincerely. they are moving away from islam. and Allah knows best what sins are taking place there. the tsunami is a lesson to all indonesian muslims to fear Allah and follow islam sincerely. nobody is trying there to work on buliding iman (faith in Allah). it is every muslim's responsibilty to work on building his iman. for that you need to organize religious islamic gatherings. we indian muslims are working hard on building our iman masha Allah
it is high time for the indonesian muslims to get back to islam and fear Allah and follow islam sincerely.
|
Who are you trying to fool here? If what you say is true than I would not want to be living in India anytime soon. With just a couple searches using google trending, which tells you where people search for what the most, I was able to see that India has the 3 cities in the top 5 for searching for sex and group sex. You had 4 of the top 5 cities that search for animal sex so what is all this high and mighty talk? You need to stop throwing stones from that glass house you live in.
------------- Get it through your heads that I don't support Bush or the Israeli's! Thank your lucky stars for America is here to stay!!!
|
Posted By: salman_s
Date Posted: 29 May 2006 at 11:54pm
ops154 wrote:
salman_s wrote:
yes, it is also one of the signs of qiyamah that Allah's wrath comes on the believers (muslims)
indonesia is the largest muslim population in the world. but the muslims there are not practising islam sincerely. they are moving away from islam. and Allah knows best what sins are taking place there. the tsunami is a lesson to all indonesian muslims to fear Allah and follow islam sincerely. nobody is trying there to work on buliding iman (faith in Allah). it is every muslim's responsibilty to work on building his iman. for that you need to organize religious islamic gatherings. we indian muslims are working hard on building our iman masha Allah
it is high time for the indonesian muslims to get back to islam and fear Allah and follow islam sincerely.
|
Who are you trying to fool here? If what you say is true than I would not want to be living in India anytime soon. With just a couple searches using google trending, which tells you where people search for what the most, I was able to see that India has the 3 cities in the top 5 for searching for sex and group sex. You had 4 of the top 5 cities that search for animal sex so what is all this high and mighty talk? You need to stop throwing stones from that glass house you live in.
|
wow really ops? thanks but i already knew that. don't you know that in india the majority of population is hindus? muslims constitute about 15 % so these practises are practised NOT by muslims but by other people who belong to religion other than Islam. in Islam all such things are haraam and we muslims here are really trying hard to be better muslims here in india masha Allah. and what i am talking about is indonesian population which has the largest muslim population in the world. i hope you get it now.
|
Posted By: salman_s
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 12:00am
Angel wrote:
By studying the geology of the earth, seeing where the tectonic plates are, volcanos etc. It's not that hard to see a mountain with a hole in it, and perhaps with smoking coming out
And oh because it is noted that area has these, so it would have happened anyway with or without people |
may be if Allah would not have let any people live in that region, then maybe Allah would not have created volcanoes and tectonic plates in that region and would not have created a mountain with smoke coming out of it.
Angel wrote:
Typical answer that is non satisfactory and one that doesn't answer if you don't believe in God
Try again Salman
|
But Angel I know that you DO believe in GOD
|
Posted By: ops154
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 12:00am
salman_s wrote:
ops154 wrote:
salman_s wrote:
yes, it is also one of the signs of qiyamah that Allah's wrath comes on the believers (muslims)
indonesia is the largest muslim population in the world. but the muslims there are not practising islam sincerely. they are moving away from islam. and Allah knows best what sins are taking place there. the tsunami is a lesson to all indonesian muslims to fear Allah and follow islam sincerely. nobody is trying there to work on buliding iman (faith in Allah). it is every muslim's responsibilty to work on building his iman. for that you need to organize religious islamic gatherings. we indian muslims are working hard on building our iman masha Allah
it is high time for the indonesian muslims to get back to islam and fear Allah and follow islam sincerely.
|
Who are you trying to fool here? If what you say is true than I would not want to be living in India anytime soon. With just a couple searches using google trending, which tells you where people search for what the most, I was able to see that India has the 3 cities in the top 5 for searching for sex and group sex. You had 4 of the top 5 cities that search for animal sex so what is all this high and mighty talk? You need to stop throwing stones from that glass house you live in.
|
wow really ops? thanks but i already knew that. don't you know that in india the majority of population is hindus? muslims constitute about 15 % so these practises are practised NOT by muslims but by other people who belong to religion other than Islam. in Islam all such things are haraam and we muslims here are really trying hard to be better muslims here in india masha Allah. and what i am talking about is indonesian population which has the largest muslim population in the world. i hope you get it now.
|
I get that you are being judgemental and basicly said all those people deserved to die since they sinned. I'm sure your after life will be very warm and sunny where you are going. Anyways I would like to know how you know it is not muslims who search for that stuff? Do you know every muslim in India and monitor what they look at on the web. Funny part is that no Indonesia city was listed at all in the top ten cities for anything I searched on. So like I said, if I lived in India I would really think about moving soon.
I still can't get over that India has 4 out of the top 5 cities that look for animal sex. Some of you Indians are nasty!!!
------------- Get it through your heads that I don't support Bush or the Israeli's! Thank your lucky stars for America is here to stay!!!
|
Posted By: Colin
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 12:06am
salman_s wrote:
sayariza, just by posting one woman who is praying you cannot say that the whole indonesian population is praying. and may be she prayed only after the earthquake struck. i just want to say that it is high time for the indonesians to turn to Allah in repentance and ask for forgiveness of their sins and pray that Allah saves them from all such calamities and disasters and Allah gives them patience in such situations. |
Salman, what evidence do you have that Indian Muslims are better Muslims than those from Indonesia?
With reference to what Angel said; What happens if there's an earthquake or undersea volcano far out in the ocean, away from human populations... Is god punishing clams for their shellfish behaviour?
|
Posted By: salman_s
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 12:07am
ops154 wrote:
salman_s wrote:
ops154 wrote:
salman_s wrote:
yes, it is also one of the signs of qiyamah that Allah's wrath comes on the believers (muslims)
indonesia is the largest muslim population in the world. but the muslims there are not practising islam sincerely. they are moving away from islam. and Allah knows best what sins are taking place there. the tsunami is a lesson to all indonesian muslims to fear Allah and follow islam sincerely. nobody is trying there to work on buliding iman (faith in Allah). it is every muslim's responsibilty to work on building his iman. for that you need to organize religious islamic gatherings. we indian muslims are working hard on building our iman masha Allah
it is high time for the indonesian muslims to get back to islam and fear Allah and follow islam sincerely.
|
Who are you trying to fool here? If what you say is true than I would not want to be living in India anytime soon. With just a couple searches using google trending, which tells you where people search for what the most, I was able to see that India has the 3 cities in the top 5 for searching for sex and group sex. You had 4 of the top 5 cities that search for animal sex so what is all this high and mighty talk? You need to stop throwing stones from that glass house you live in.
|
wow really ops? thanks but i already knew that. don't you know that in india the majority of population is hindus? muslims constitute about 15 % so these practises are practised NOT by muslims but by other people who belong to religion other than Islam. in Islam all such things are haraam and we muslims here are really trying hard to be better muslims here in india masha Allah. and what i am talking about is indonesian population which has the largest muslim population in the world. i hope you get it now.
|
I get that you are being judgemental and basicly said all those people deserved to die since they sinned. I'm sure your after life will be very warm and sunny where you are going. Anyways I would like to know how you know it is not muslims who search for that stuff? Do you know every muslim in India and monitor what they look at on the web. Funny part is that no Indonesia city was listed at all in the top ten cities for anything I searched on. So like I said, if I lived in India I would really think about moving soon.
I still can't get over that India has 4 out of the top 5 cities that look for animal sex. Some of you Indians are nasty!!!
|
i advise to you ops that you come in india and see for yourself who is searching all this stuff, note that the majority of population living in india is hindus. and you say that we indians are nasty , then let me tell you what the indians may be watching of sex and group sex, they see no images and photos except that of you nasty americans invovled in it
|
Posted By: salman_s
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 12:10am
Colin wrote:
salman_s wrote:
sayariza, just by posting one woman who is praying you cannot say that the whole indonesian population is praying. and may be she prayed only after the earthquake struck. i just want to say that it is high time for the indonesians to turn to Allah in repentance and ask for forgiveness of their sins and pray that Allah saves them from all such calamities and disasters and Allah gives them patience in such situations. |
Salman, what evidence do you have that Indian Muslims are better Muslims than those from Indonesia?
With reference to what Angel said; What happens if there's an earthquake or undersea volcano far out in the ocean, away from human populations... Is god punishing clams for their shellfish behaviour?
|
the evidence is the earthquake which is constantly striking the indonesian regions. Allah punishes the wrongdoers. after the tsunami struck, i heard many indonesians themselves saying that Allah has punished them because of their sins.
regarding places where there are no people living and earthquakes and volcanoes strike, then Allah does what he wills. we cannot question Allah.
|
Posted By: ops154
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 12:16am
salman_s wrote:
[QUOTE]
i advise to you ops that you come in india and see for yourself who is searching all this stuff, note that the majority of population living in india is hindus. and you say that we indians are nasty , then let me tell you what the indians may be watching of sex and group sex, they see no images and photos except that of you nasty americans invovled in it
|
I wouldn't be welcome there, I don't have enough fur. And I know there are some nasty Americans as well but I don't pretend to be perfect like you. What does it say when Indians want to look at nasty Americans?
------------- Get it through your heads that I don't support Bush or the Israeli's! Thank your lucky stars for America is here to stay!!!
|
Posted By: ops154
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 12:19am
salman_s wrote:
Colin wrote:
salman_s wrote:
sayariza, just by posting one woman who is praying you cannot say that the whole indonesian population is praying. and may be she prayed only after the earthquake struck. i just want to say that it is high time for the indonesians to turn to Allah in repentance and ask for forgiveness of their sins and pray that Allah saves them from all such calamities and disasters and Allah gives them patience in such situations. |
Salman, what evidence do you have that Indian Muslims are better Muslims than those from Indonesia?
With reference to what Angel said; What happens if there's an earthquake or undersea volcano far out in the ocean, away from human populations... Is god punishing clams for their shellfish behaviour?
|
the evidence is the earthquake which is constantly striking the indonesian regions. Allah punishes the wrongdoers. after the tsunami struck, i heard many indonesians themselves saying that Allah has punished them because of their sins.
regarding places where there are no people living and earthquakes and volcanoes strike, then Allah does what he wills. we cannot question Allah.
|
Well with using your logic then I guess the Iraqies, Afghans and Palestinians are all living the wrath of god for thier sins. I don't agree with that but with your logic about Indonesia then it is Allah who is hurting the muslims around the world. Do you agree?
------------- Get it through your heads that I don't support Bush or the Israeli's! Thank your lucky stars for America is here to stay!!!
|
Posted By: salman_s
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 12:21am
ops154 wrote:
salman_s wrote:
[QUOTE]
i advise to you ops that you come in india and see for yourself who is searching all this stuff, note that the majority of population living in india is hindus. and you say that we indians are nasty , then let me tell you what the indians may be watching of sex and group sex, they see no images and photos except that of you nasty americans invovled in it
|
I wouldn't be welcome there, I don't have enough fur. And I know there are some nasty Americans as well but I don't pretend to be perfect like you. What does it say when Indians want to look at nasty Americans?
|
what does it say when nasty americans practise such things? what does your religion teach?
|
Posted By: salman_s
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 12:23am
ops154 wrote:
salman_s wrote:
Colin wrote:
salman_s wrote:
sayariza, just by posting one woman who is praying you cannot say that the whole indonesian population is praying. and may be she prayed only after the earthquake struck. i just want to say that it is high time for the indonesians to turn to Allah in repentance and ask for forgiveness of their sins and pray that Allah saves them from all such calamities and disasters and Allah gives them patience in such situations. |
Salman, what evidence do you have that Indian Muslims are better Muslims than those from Indonesia?
With reference to what Angel said; What happens if there's an earthquake or undersea volcano far out in the ocean, away from human populations... Is god punishing clams for their shellfish behaviour?
|
the evidence is the earthquake which is constantly striking the indonesian regions. Allah punishes the wrongdoers. after the tsunami struck, i heard many indonesians themselves saying that Allah has punished them because of their sins.
regarding places where there are no people living and earthquakes and volcanoes strike, then Allah does what he wills. we cannot question Allah.
|
Well with using your logic then I guess the Iraqies, Afghans and Palestinians are all living the wrath of god for thier sins. I don't agree with that but with your logic about Indonesia then it is Allah who is hurting the muslims around the world. Do you agree?
|
earthquakes and volacanoes are not frequent in Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine. are they? No. so i am talking about the natural calamities.
|
Posted By: Angel
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 12:26am
Colin wrote:
With reference to what Angel said; What happens if there's an earthquake or undersea volcano far out in the ocean, away from human populations... Is god punishing clams for their shellfish behaviour?
|
I so cracked laughing at this
Good one Colin
------------- ~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
|
Posted By: Colin
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 12:28am
the evidence is the earthquake which is constantly striking the indonesian regions. Allah punishes the wrongdoers. after the tsunami struck, i heard many indonesians themselves saying that Allah has punished them because of their sins. |
The tsunami also killed people in India, Sri Lanka, The Maldives, Thailand, and Malaysia. I wonder why god felt the need to punish so many people of different religions.. I wonder why he only chose to punish those unlucky enough to be living in coastal areas...is there something about sea air that makes people sin more than those living away from the sea?
regarding places where there are no people living and earthquakes and volcanoes strike, then Allah does what he wills. we cannot question Allah. |
I am not questioning god. These events happen because we live on a geologically unstable planet..
BTW. The god I believe in is not a sadistic, indiscriminate killer.
|
Posted By: salman_s
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 12:29am
Angel wrote:
Colin wrote:
With reference to what Angel said; What happens if there's an earthquake or undersea volcano far out in the ocean, away from human populations... Is god punishing clams for their shellfish behaviour?
|
I so cracked laughing at this
Good one Colin
|
colin, you may become a good poet, go for it !
|
Posted By: Angel
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 12:33am
salman_s wrote:
Angel wrote:
By studying the geology of the earth, seeing where the tectonic plates are, volcanos etc. It's not that hard to see a mountain with a hole in it, and perhaps with smoking coming out
And oh because it is noted that area has these, so it would have happened anyway with or without people |
may be if Allah would not have let any people live in that region, then maybe Allah would not have created volcanoes and tectonic plates in that region and would not have created a mountain with smoke coming out of it. |
oh, you're just fishing for answers now
Angel wrote:
Typical answer that is non satisfactory and one that doesn't answer if you don't believe in God
Try again Salman
[QUOTE]
But Angel I know that you DO believe in GOD |
What has that got to do with anything? Wasn't talking specificly about myself here there are many people who do not believe in God
------------- ~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
|
Posted By: ops154
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 12:33am
salman_s wrote:
ops154 wrote:
salman_s wrote:
Colin wrote:
salman_s wrote:
sayariza, just by posting one woman who is praying you cannot say that the whole indonesian population is praying. and may be she prayed only after the earthquake struck. i just want to say that it is high time for the indonesians to turn to Allah in repentance and ask for forgiveness of their sins and pray that Allah saves them from all such calamities and disasters and Allah gives them patience in such situations. |
Salman, what evidence do you have that Indian Muslims are better Muslims than those from Indonesia?
With reference to what Angel said; What happens if there's an earthquake or undersea volcano far out in the ocean, away from human populations... Is god punishing clams for their shellfish behaviour?
|
the evidence is the earthquake which is constantly striking the indonesian regions. Allah punishes the wrongdoers. after the tsunami struck, i heard many indonesians themselves saying that Allah has punished them because of their sins.
regarding places where there are no people living and earthquakes and volcanoes strike, then Allah does what he wills. we cannot question Allah.
|
Well with using your logic then I guess the Iraqies, Afghans and Palestinians are all living the wrath of god for thier sins. I don't agree with that but with your logic about Indonesia then it is Allah who is hurting the muslims around the world. Do you agree?
|
earthquakes and volacanoes are not frequent in Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine. are they? No. so i am talking about the natural calamities.
|
So are you saying Allah can't control American's or Israelis? I would think if he wanted it stopped he would destroy America or something so that we would stop hurting his people. Do you not agree that he could if he wanted to and since he hasn't yet then I guess it's god's will.
------------- Get it through your heads that I don't support Bush or the Israeli's! Thank your lucky stars for America is here to stay!!!
|
Posted By: salman_s
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 12:36am
Colin wrote:
The tsunami also killed people in India, Sri Lanka, The Maldives, Thailand, and Malaysia. I wonder why god felt the need to punish so many people of different religions.. I wonder why he only chose to punish those unlucky enough to be living in coastal areas...is there something about sea air that makes people sin more than those living away from the sea?
[quote]
may be there were sinners in the coastal areas. and we should know what type of sins might be taking on beaches.
and what i said was the earthquake which is constantly striking indonesia. the tsunami struck once doing maximum damage to indonesia. after that where have there been frequent earthquakes? mostly in indonesia.
Colin wrote:
I am not questioning god. These events happen because we live on a geologically unstable planet..
|
Yes so Allah has set this geologically unstable planet as he wills.
[QUOTE=Colin]BTW. The god I believe in is not a sadistic, indiscriminate killer. |
thats good ! then why are you arguing that there are no sinners in indonesia? then you should agree with what i am saying since long in this topic.
|
Posted By: ops154
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 12:36am
salman_s wrote:
ops154 wrote:
salman_s wrote:
[QUOTE]
i advise to you ops that you come in india and see for yourself who is searching all this stuff, note that the majority of population living in india is hindus. and you say that we indians are nasty , then let me tell you what the indians may be watching of sex and group sex, they see no images and photos except that of you nasty americans invovled in it
|
I wouldn't be welcome there, I don't have enough fur. And I know there are some nasty Americans as well but I don't pretend to be perfect like you. What does it say when Indians want to look at nasty Americans?
|
what does it say when nasty americans practise such things? what does your religion teach?
|
I know American's like sex and most like it a lot but I really haven't seen a market for animal sex around here so we are not the ones who are practicing anything. My religion says not to look at things like that and that is why NO AMERICAN city was listed in the top ten for animal sex.
------------- Get it through your heads that I don't support Bush or the Israeli's! Thank your lucky stars for America is here to stay!!!
|
Posted By: salman_s
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 12:39am
Angel wrote:
salman_s wrote:
Angel wrote:
By studying the geology of the earth, seeing where the tectonic plates are, volcanos etc. It's not that hard to see a mountain with a hole in it, and perhaps with smoking coming out
And oh because it is noted that area has these, so it would have happened anyway with or without people |
may be if Allah would not have let any people live in that region, then maybe Allah would not have created volcanoes and tectonic plates in that region and would not have created a mountain with smoke coming out of it. |
oh, you're just fishing for answers now
Angel wrote:
Typical answer that is non satisfactory and one that doesn't answer if you don't believe in God
Try again Salman
[QUOTE]
But Angel I know that you DO believe in GOD |
What has that got to do with anything? Wasn't talking specificly about myself here there are many people who do not believe in God
|
but here i am only talking with you regarding this point, isn't it? and you believe in God.
if i would have to adress the atheists my answer would have been different.
|
Posted By: Angel
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 12:42am
Colin wrote:
the evidence is the earthquake which is constantly striking the indonesian regions. Allah punishes the wrongdoers. after the tsunami struck, i heard many indonesians themselves saying that Allah has punished them because of their sins. |
The tsunami also killed people in India, Sri Lanka, The Maldives, Thailand, and Malaysia. I wonder why god felt the need to punish so many people of different religions.. I wonder why he only chose to punish those unlucky enough to be living in coastal areas...is there something about sea air that makes people sin more than those living away from the sea?
regarding places where there are no people living and earthquakes and volcanoes strike, then Allah does what he wills. we cannot question Allah. |
I am not questioning god. These events happen because we live on a geologically unstable planet..
|
better watch out now, salman is goign to say Allah willed, made an unstable planet
Good points thou
------------- ~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
|
Posted By: salman_s
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 12:45am
ops154 wrote:
salman_s wrote:
ops154 wrote:
salman_s wrote:
Colin wrote:
salman_s wrote:
sayariza, just by posting one woman who is praying you cannot say that the whole indonesian population is praying. and may be she prayed only after the earthquake struck. i just want to say that it is high time for the indonesians to turn to Allah in repentance and ask for forgiveness of their sins and pray that Allah saves them from all such calamities and disasters and Allah gives them patience in such situations. |
Salman, what evidence do you have that Indian Muslims are better Muslims than those from Indonesia?
With reference to what Angel said; What happens if there's an earthquake or undersea volcano far out in the ocean, away from human populations... Is god punishing clams for their shellfish behaviour?
|
the evidence is the earthquake which is constantly striking the indonesian regions. Allah punishes the wrongdoers. after the tsunami struck, i heard many indonesians themselves saying that Allah has punished them because of their sins.
regarding places where there are no people living and earthquakes and volcanoes strike, then Allah does what he wills. we cannot question Allah.
|
Well with using your logic then I guess the Iraqies, Afghans and Palestinians are all living the wrath of god for thier sins. I don't agree with that but with your logic about Indonesia then it is Allah who is hurting the muslims around the world. Do you agree?
|
earthquakes and volacanoes are not frequent in Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine. are they? No. so i am talking about the natural calamities.
|
So are you saying Allah can't control American's or Israelis? I would think if he wanted it stopped he would destroy America or something so that we would stop hurting his people. Do you not agree that he could if he wanted to and since he hasn't yet then I guess it's god's will.
|
Allah is the One Who owns us fully and nothing happens in the universe except as a result of His will
didn't you see how Allah destroyed the people of new orleans last year by sending a terrible hurricane? Allah does as he wills. you never know another hurricane may be in store for the americans. it is Allah (alone) who sends these hurricanes. if Allah wills, a severe punishment from Allah may reach to you americans very soon.
|
Posted By: salman_s
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 12:48am
ops154 wrote:
salman_s wrote:
ops154 wrote:
salman_s wrote:
[QUOTE]
i advise to you ops that you come in india and see for yourself who is searching all this stuff, note that the majority of population living in india is hindus. and you say that we indians are nasty , then let me tell you what the indians may be watching of sex and group sex, they see no images and photos except that of you nasty americans invovled in it
|
I wouldn't be welcome there, I don't have enough fur. And I know there are some nasty Americans as well but I don't pretend to be perfect like you. What does it say when Indians want to look at nasty Americans?
|
what does it say when nasty americans practise such things? what does your religion teach?
|
I know American's like sex and most like it a lot but I really haven't seen a market for animal sex around here so we are not the ones who are practicing anything. My religion says not to look at things like that and that is why NO AMERICAN city was listed in the top ten for animal sex.
|
Ok good ! so why are you arguing with me? i am a muslim. Islam forbids all such haraam things and the ultimate penalty for these sins is hell fire. now the only people you can argue with are the indian hindus. ask them why they look at animal sex? what does their religion teach? ask them not ME !
|
Posted By: Angel
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 12:48am
Posted By: Colin
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 1:01am
Angel wrote:
better watch out now, salman is goign to say Allah willed, made an unstable planet |
Too late! I think Salman has already said it.
Perhaps god deliberately made the planet unstable so he could use it to punish believers.. at the same time cunningly allowing atheists to blame disasters on entirely natural causes. The only snag with with this theory is that however good god was at setting up a disaster, he would be bound to kill the innocent along with the sinners. No, if god wanted to punish sinners, he would be careful to make sure there were no innocent bystanders getting caught up in his wrathfest... Otherwise he would open himself up to charges of being an indiscriminate killer.. which is not a label that any self-respecting god would want to obtain.
|
Posted By: Angel
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 1:13am
yes, that is a good point Colin
------------- ~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
|
Posted By: ops154
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 1:22am
salman_s wrote:
[QUOTE]
Allah is the One Who owns us fully and nothing happens in the universe except as a result of His will
didn't you see how Allah destroyed the people of new orleans last year by sending a terrible hurricane? Allah does as he wills. you never know another hurricane may be in store for the americans. it is Allah (alone) who sends these hurricanes. if Allah wills, a severe punishment from Allah may reach to you americans very soon.
|
Ok so since he hasn't stopped our war on terror than I guess he supports it. Thank you for supporting America in our time of need.
------------- Get it through your heads that I don't support Bush or the Israeli's! Thank your lucky stars for America is here to stay!!!
|
Posted By: Mishmish
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 1:58am
ops154 wrote:
[QUOTE=salman_s]
Ok so since he hasn't stopped our war on terror than I guess he supports it. Thank you for supporting America in our time of need.
|
Oh, is the "war on terror" also known as the BIG LIE or Will Fight for Oil, going well? Guess I forgot to watch Fox tonight...
------------- It is only with the heart that one can see clearly, what is essential is invisible to the eye. (The Little Prince)
|
Posted By: Abeer23
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 2:37am
Inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi rajioon.
We cannot deny that Allah s.w.t has punished nations before us with what we call "natural disasters." The proof is in the Quran. We all know the stories of Aad, Thamud, and Qowmi Lut and others. Not to mention Allah clearly states:
42:30 "Whatever misfortune happens to you, is because on the things your hands have wrought, and for many (of them) He grants forgiveness. "
BUT, sometimes, disaster and heart-break is a mercy from Allah in disguise. I think you all know the story of Musa and Kidhr. Remember the boat belonging to the poor people that Kidhr a.s put a hole in?? Or the little boy Kidhr killed?? Allah is the All-Knowing not us. We can never fully comprehend why he wills what he wills. Allah tells us:
17:85 "...... of knowledge it is only a little that is communicated to you, (O men!)"
Arabian Knight has also made a very good point. Just because Natural disaster is one way Allah s.w.t punishes, doesn't mean that all natural disaster is a punishment! Everything happens by Allah's will. But not every mishap is a sign of Allah Ta'la's anger or punishment. In the story of Musa and Kidhr, the parents of the boy were good people, their son' death though it was a misfortune in their eyes, was in no way A punishment from Allah.
It's important for us to pray for our muslim brothers and sisters and aide them as much as we can during this difficult time. If they were in a state of disobedience then in sha allah what they have suffered will be kaffara for them. And if they were in a state of obedience and devotion to Allah then in sha allah their patience during these times will bring them great reward from our Lord, in this life and the hereafter (ameen).
Salaam
|
Posted By: amah
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 2:41am
Masha Allah sister Abeer!!!
------------- Allah is Sufficient as a Walee (Protector) and Allah is Sufficient as a Naseer (Helper).
(Surah An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #45)
|
Posted By: ops154
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 2:57am
Mishmish wrote:
ops154 wrote:
[QUOTE=salman_s]
Ok so since he hasn't stopped our war on terror than I guess he supports it. Thank you for supporting America in our time of need.
|
Oh, is the "war on terror" also known as the BIG LIE or Will Fight for Oil, going well? Guess I forgot to watch Fox tonight...
|
Well my nation hasn't been bombed or attacked lately so yeah I guess it's going good. You have all said that everything that happens is gods will so please try to explain how what America is doing is bad? If Allah didn't want it to happen wouldn't he of just struck Bush and his cronies dead at the first thought of attacking those nations? Please someone explain to me that if whatever happens in this world is Allahs will then why doesn't he stop America from attacking Iraq or Afghanistan. Or does this mean he agrees with what we are doing over there?
------------- Get it through your heads that I don't support Bush or the Israeli's! Thank your lucky stars for America is here to stay!!!
|
Posted By: amah
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 4:02am
ops154 wrote:
Please someone explain to me that if whatever happens in this world is Allahs will then why doesn't he stop America from attacking Iraq or Afghanistan. Or does this mean he agrees with what we are doing over there? |
Allah says:
Let not the free
disposal (and affluence) of the disbelievers
throughout the land deceive you. A brief enjoyment; then, their ultimate
abode is Hell; and worst indeed is that place for rest.
( سورة آل عمران
, Aal-e-Imran, Chapter http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=3&translator=5 - #3 ,
Verse http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=3&translator=5#196 - #196 /197)
------------- Allah is Sufficient as a Walee (Protector) and Allah is Sufficient as a Naseer (Helper).
(Surah An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #45)
|
Posted By: ak_m_f
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 4:30am
Angel wrote:
salman_s wrote:
Angel wrote:
Salman, well you may believe what you wrote above, but study the geology of the earth, please. Not everything pertains to God's wrath, actually I don't believe any natural disasters is from God's wrath myself.
The earth is a violent place, whenever there is stresses and movement of tectonic plates,�the earth is going to let go and shift�and normally it is in the form of eathquakes.
And volcanos, well similar activities.
What lies underneath the crust is a very active earth �The earth is always evolving and changing. The lands/continents are actually moving.
|
hi angel
who causes stresses and movements of volcanic plates which results in earthquakes? it is Allah (alone) who does that
who causes volacanoes to occur and the earth plates to shift? it is Allah (alone) who does that
Allah has mentioned in the Qur'an that Allah forgives whom he wills and Allah punishes whom he wills.
Allah's punishment has come on the indonesians, and it is high time that indonesian muslims�repent to Allah of their past sins and get back to the path of goodness�and sincerely practise islam
�
|
I am sorry I think that is crap, Then explain to me when earthquakes and underwater valcanos, or whatever, elsewhere where there are no people and yet these still occur.
If there were no people on indonesia and all this still happened, is God punishing then or is it just a normal�natural movement of the earth? (perhasp God's doing)
I believe what happened or is happening in indonesia would have still happened if there were no people there and would not be a disaster.
No one ever says that it is god's punishment when it doesn't effect people directly or indirectly, amazing how that is �It is always when people are affected, why is that so?
why is it different when people are involved than when it is not. These acts of the earth do not confine themselves to where people are only.
And it is only called a disaster when people are involved never when its in a place where no one gets hurt/affected.
Think a little Salman |
Also rain man makes it rain, its not water cycle or c02 cycle... its the rain man
|
Posted By: ak_m_f
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 4:34am
Angel wrote:
salman_s wrote:
[
hi angel
how do you know that if there were no indonesians living in that region still the earthquakes would have occured? |
By studying the geology of the earth, seeing where the tectonic plates are, volcanos etc.��It's not that hard to see a mountain with a hole in it, and perhaps with smoking coming out�
And oh because it is noted that area�has these, so it would have happened anyway with or without people �
and regarding other regions where no people live still earthquakes and volcanoes occur, then that is Allah's will. Allah does what he wills and we cannot question him. |
Typical answer that is non satisfactory and one that doesn't answer if you don't believe in God
Try again Salman |
Here is the map of
tectonic plates.
Indonesia lies close to it.
|
Posted By: ak_m_f
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 4:41am
salman_s wrote:
ops154 wrote:
salman_s wrote:
ops154 wrote:
salman_s wrote:
yes, it is also one of the signs of qiyamah that Allah's wrath comes on the believers (muslims)
indonesia is the largest muslim population in the world. but the muslims there are not practising islam sincerely. they are moving away from islam. and Allah knows best what sins are taking place there. the tsunami is a lesson to all indonesian muslims to fear Allah and follow islam�sincerely. nobody is trying there to work on buliding iman (faith in Allah). it is every muslim's responsibilty to work on building his iman. for that you need to organize religious islamic gatherings. we indian muslims are working hard on building our iman masha Allah�
it is high time for the indonesian muslims to get back to islam and fear Allah and follow islam sincerely.
|
Who are you trying to fool here? If what you say is true than I would not want to be living in India anytime soon. With just a couple searches using google trending, which tells you where people search for what the most, I was able to see that India has the 3 cities in the top 5 for searching for sex and group sex. You had 4 of the top 5 cities that search for animal sex so what is all this high and mighty talk? You need to stop throwing stones from that glass house you live in.
|
�wow really ops? thanks but i already knew that. don't you know that in india the majority of population is hindus? muslims constitute about 15 % so these practises are practised NOT by muslims but by other people who belong to religion other than Islam. in Islam all such things are haraam and we muslims here are really trying hard to be better muslims here in india masha Allah. and what i am talking about is indonesian population which has the largest muslim population in the world. i hope you get it now.
|
�
I get that you are being judgemental and basicly said all those people deserved to die since they sinned. I'm sure your after life will be very warm�and sunny where you are going. Anyways I would like to know how you know it is not muslims who search for that stuff? Do you know every muslim in India and monitor what they look at on the web. Funny part is that no Indonesia city was listed at all in the top ten cities for anything I searched on. So like I said, if I lived in India I would really think about moving soon.
�
I still can't get over that India has 4 out of the top 5 cities that look for animal sex. Some of you Indians are nasty!!!
|
i advise to you ops that you come in india and see for yourself who is searching all this stuff, note that the majority of population living in india is hindus. and you say that we indians are nasty , then let me tell you what the indians may be watching of sex and group sex, they see no images and photos except that of you nasty americans invovled in it |
Its the indians who want to see white skin. ops do you know about the democratic caste system in India?
Do you know that they rape white tourist in India?
does anyone knows what Indian did at the 18th Commonwealth Games?.
|
Posted By: ak_m_f
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 4:42am
Angel wrote:
Colin wrote:
With reference to what Angel said; What happens if there's an earthquake or undersea volcano far out in the ocean, away from human populations... Is god punishing clams for their shellfish behaviour?
|
�
I so cracked laughing at this �
Good one Colin |
for thy goldfish has sinned, he shall boil in the holy lava!
|
Posted By: ak_m_f
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 4:46am
ops154 wrote:
Well my nation hasn't been bombed or attacked lately so yeah I guess it's going good. You have all said that everything that happens is gods will so please try to explain how what America is doing is bad? If Allah didn't want it to happen wouldn't he of just struck Bush and his cronies dead at the first thought of attacking those nations? Please someone explain to me that if whatever happens in this world is Allahs will then why doesn't he stop America from attacking Iraq or Afghanistan. Or does this mean he agrees with what we are doing over there? |
yea its going good as long as you dont get blown by IED.
enlist now ..."patriot".
|
Posted By: ops154
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 4:47am
ak_m_f wrote:
ops154 wrote:
Well my nation hasn't been bombed or attacked lately so yeah I guess it's going good. You have all said that everything that happens is gods will so please try to explain how what America is doing is bad? If Allah didn't want it to happen wouldn't he of just struck Bush and his cronies dead at the first thought of attacking those nations? Please someone explain to me that if whatever happens in this world is Allahs will then why doesn't he stop America from attacking Iraq or Afghanistan. Or does this mean he agrees with what we are doing over there?
|
yea its going good as long as you dont get blown by IED.
enlist now ..."patriot". |
Well only a couple thousand US troops have died compared to how many Iraqies? I would say we are better off then them.
------------- Get it through your heads that I don't support Bush or the Israeli's! Thank your lucky stars for America is here to stay!!!
|
Posted By: ak_m_f
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 4:51am
ops154 wrote:
Well only a couple thousand US troops have died compared to how many Iraqies? I would say we are better off then them. |
yea ratio is in your favour. I say B-2's and Nighthawk rock!
|
Posted By: ops154
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 4:51am
ak_m_f wrote:
[QUOTE]
Its the indians who want to see white skin. ops do you know about the democratic caste system in India?
Do you know that they rape white tourist in India?
does anyone knows what Indian did at the 18th Commonwealth Games?.
|
I don't so please explain. Also I don't have to worry what Indians do to white people as I don't plan on going over there anytime soon. It sounds like they would rather have my dog then me go over there anyways.
------------- Get it through your heads that I don't support Bush or the Israeli's! Thank your lucky stars for America is here to stay!!!
|
Posted By: ak_m_f
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 4:57am
ops154 wrote:
ak_m_f wrote:
Its the indians who want to see white skin. ops do you know about the democratic caste system in India? Do you know that they rape white tourist in India? does anyone knows what Indian did at the 18th Commonwealth Games?. |
�
I don't so please explain. Also I don't have to worry what Indians do to white people as I don't plan on going over there anytime soon. It sounds like they would rather have my dog then me go over there anyways. |
|
some of the incidents I can recall of my head are these:
In 2003 Swiss diplomat was raped in India.
in 2005 German tourist raped.
Concerned over recent incidents of rape and killing of foreign tourists, India's Union Tourism Ministry would soon introduce "tourist cards" to ensure the safety of international guests........
|
Talk abot luv for white skin.... sickenin....
|
Posted By: salman_s
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 4:58am
ak_m_f wrote:
Angel wrote:
salman_s wrote:
Angel wrote:
Salman, well you may believe what you wrote above, but study the geology of the earth, please. Not everything pertains to God's wrath, actually I don't believe any natural disasters is from God's wrath myself.
The earth is a violent place, whenever there is stresses and movement of tectonic plates, the earth is going to let go and shift and normally it is in the form of eathquakes.
And volcanos, well similar activities.
What lies underneath the crust is a very active earth The earth is always evolving and changing. The lands/continents are actually moving.
|
hi angel
who causes stresses and movements of volcanic plates which results in earthquakes? it is Allah (alone) who does that
who causes volacanoes to occur and the earth plates to shift? it is Allah (alone) who does that
Allah has mentioned in the Qur'an that Allah forgives whom he wills and Allah punishes whom he wills.
Allah's punishment has come on the indonesians, and it is high time that indonesian muslims repent to Allah of their past sins and get back to the path of goodness and sincerely practise islam
|
I am sorry I think that is crap, Then explain to me when earthquakes and underwater valcanos, or whatever, elsewhere where there are no people and yet these still occur.
If there were no people on indonesia and all this still happened, is God punishing then or is it just a normal natural movement of the earth? (perhasp God's doing)
I believe what happened or is happening in indonesia would have still happened if there were no people there and would not be a disaster.
No one ever says that it is god's punishment when it doesn't effect people directly or indirectly, amazing how that is It is always when people are affected, why is that so?
why is it different when people are involved than when it is not. These acts of the earth do not confine themselves to where people are only.
And it is only called a disaster when people are involved never when its in a place where no one gets hurt/affected.
Think a little Salman
|
Also rain man makes it rain, its not water cycle or c02 cycle... its the rain man
|
ak, i would like to know are you a muslim?
it is Allah (alone) who sends down rain from the sky. Allah has given its description in the Qur�an in several verses.
Allah is the One Who owns us fully and nothing happens in the universe except as a result of His will
|
Posted By: ops154
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 4:59am
ak_m_f wrote:
ops154 wrote:
ak_m_f wrote:
Its the indians who want to see white skin. ops do you know about the democratic caste system in India? Do you know that they rape white tourist in India? does anyone knows what Indian did at the 18th Commonwealth Games?. |
I don't so please explain. Also I don't have to worry what Indians do to white people as I don't plan on going over there anytime soon. It sounds like they would rather have my dog then me go over there anyways.
|
| some of the incidents I can recall of my head are these:
In 2003 Swiss diplomat was raped in India. in 2005 German tourist raped.
Concerned over recent incidents of rape and killing of foreign tourists, India's Union Tourism Ministry would soon introduce "tourist cards" to ensure the safety of international guests........
|
Talk abot luv for white skin.... sickenin....
|
Well isn't that nice of Salmans country. Please Salman tell us more how your country is so god fearing and better than Indonesia.
------------- Get it through your heads that I don't support Bush or the Israeli's! Thank your lucky stars for America is here to stay!!!
|
Posted By: salman_s
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 5:01am
ak_m_f wrote:
Angel wrote:
salman_s wrote:
[
hi angel
how do you know that if there were no indonesians living in that region still the earthquakes would have occured? |
By studying the geology of the earth, seeing where the tectonic plates are, volcanos etc. It's not that hard to see a mountain with a hole in it, and perhaps with smoking coming out
And oh because it is noted that area has these, so it would have happened anyway with or without people
and regarding other regions where no people live still earthquakes and volcanoes occur, then that is Allah's will. Allah does what he wills and we cannot question him. |
Typical answer that is non satisfactory and one that doesn't answer if you don't believe in God
Try again Salman
|
Here is the map of tectonic plates.
Indonesia lies close to it.
|
Allah knows what happened in the past, what is happening in present and what will happen in future.
Allah is the All-Knower of the unseen and the seen.
Allah knows where there will be sinners born on the earth, so accordingly Allah has set the tectonic plates.
Allah knows best
|
Posted By: ops154
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 5:01am
salman_s wrote:
[QUOTE]
Allah is the One Who owns us fully and nothing happens in the universe except as a result of His will
|
So again do you believe it's god will for what is happening in Iraq, Afghanistan and Palestine?
------------- Get it through your heads that I don't support Bush or the Israeli's! Thank your lucky stars for America is here to stay!!!
|
Posted By: ak_m_f
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 5:02am
salman_s wrote:
ak_m_f wrote:
Angel wrote:
salman_s wrote:
Angel wrote:
Salman, well you may believe what you wrote above, but study the geology of the earth, please. Not everything pertains to God's wrath, actually I don't believe any natural disasters is from God's wrath myself.
The earth is a violent place, whenever there is stresses and movement of tectonic plates,�the earth is going to let go and shift�and normally it is in the form of eathquakes.
And volcanos, well similar activities.
What lies underneath the crust is a very active earth �The earth is always evolving and changing. The lands/continents are actually moving.
|
hi angel
who causes stresses and movements of volcanic plates which results in earthquakes? it is Allah (alone) who does that
who causes volacanoes to occur and the earth plates to shift? it is Allah (alone) who does that
Allah has mentioned in the Qur'an that Allah forgives whom he wills and Allah punishes whom he wills.
Allah's punishment has come on the indonesians, and it is high time that indonesian muslims�repent to Allah of their past sins and get back to the path of goodness�and sincerely practise islam
�
|
I am sorry I think that is crap, Then explain to me when earthquakes and underwater valcanos, or whatever, elsewhere where there are no people and yet these still occur.
If there were no people on indonesia and all this still happened, is God punishing then or is it just a normal�natural movement of the earth? (perhasp God's doing)
I believe what happened or is happening in indonesia would have still happened if there were no people there and would not be a disaster.
No one ever says that it is god's punishment when it doesn't effect people directly or indirectly, amazing how that is �It is always when people are affected, why is that so?
why is it different when people are involved than when it is not. These acts of the earth do not confine themselves to where people are only.
And it is only called a disaster when people are involved never when its in a place where no one gets hurt/affected.
Think a little Salman
| Also rain man makes it rain, its not water cycle or c02 cycle... its the rain man |
<P =Msonormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>ak,�i would like to know are you a muslim?
<P =Msonormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>�
<P =Msonormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>it is Allah (alone) who sends down rain from the sky. Allah has given its description in the Qur�an in several verses.
Allah is the One Who owns�us fully and nothing happens in the universe except as a result of His will |
what it has to do with anything?
Allah has designed a system, like planets in solar system.
I guess we owe him for creating these complicated designs.
Allah is not the one pushing the planets around that makes them revlove.
|
Posted By: ak_m_f
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 5:04am
salman_s wrote:
ak_m_f wrote:
Angel wrote:
salman_s wrote:
[
hi angel
how do you know that if there were no indonesians living in that region still the earthquakes would have occured? |
By studying the geology of the earth, seeing where the tectonic plates are, volcanos etc.��It's not that hard to see a mountain with a hole in it, and perhaps with smoking coming out�
And oh because it is noted that area�has these, so it would have happened anyway with or without people �
and regarding other regions where no people live still earthquakes and volcanoes occur, then that is Allah's will. Allah does what he wills and we cannot question him. |
Typical answer that is non satisfactory and one that doesn't answer if you don't believe in God
Try again Salman
| Here is the map of tectonic plates. Indonesia lies close to it. |
Allah knows what happened in the past, what is happening in present and what will happen in future.
Allah is the All-Knower of the unseen and the seen.
Allah knows where there will be sinners born on the earth, so accordingly Allah has set the tectonic plates.
Allah knows best |
In the map there is a square box in saudi arabia.. I wonder why?
|
Posted By: ak_m_f
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 5:07am
ops154 wrote:
salman_s wrote:
[QUOTE]
Allah is the One Who owns�us fully and nothing happens in the universe except as a result of His will
|
�
So again do you believe it's god will for what is happening in Iraq, Afghanistan and Palestine? |
I think you hvaent heard of the saying.
"God helps who help themselves".
now saying that we are muslims and God will help us is not 100% true.
sleeping in the middle of the battle field will get you blown up by 108mm motar shell.... not victory...
|
Posted By: salman_s
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 5:07am
ops154 wrote:
salman_s wrote:
[QUOTE]
Allah is the One Who owns us fully and nothing happens in the universe except as a result of His will
|
So again do you believe it's god will for what is happening in Iraq, Afghanistan and Palestine?
|
Allah is the One Who owns us fully and nothing happens in the universe except as a result of His will
yes, it is Allah's will for what is happening in iraq, afghanistan and palestine
it is testing times for we muslims. Allah is testing us in our lives. we muslims need to be patient and constantly fear Allah and worship Allah (alone) and be dutiful to Allah and seek Allah's mercy.
|
Posted By: ak_m_f
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 5:09am
salman_s wrote:
ops154 wrote:
salman_s wrote:
[QUOTE]
Allah is the One Who owns�us fully and nothing happens in the universe except as a result of His will
|
�
So again do you believe it's god will for what is happening in Iraq, Afghanistan and Palestine?
|
Allah is the One Who owns us fully and nothing happens in the universe except as a result of His will
yes, it is Allah's will for what is happening in iraq, afghanistan and palestine
it is testing times for we muslims. Allah is testing us in our lives. we muslims need to be patient and constantly fear Allah and worship Allah (alone) and be dutiful to Allah and seek Allah's mercy. |
reading quran in the middle of a battle is not enough, you also need tactic, weapons and will to fight.
Its a combination of tactic,weapon, and help from God that makes you win the battle.
of course nothing can happen without him, but it donst means that go and live in a mosque.
we still have to try, face it we are not Prophet.
|
Posted By: salman_s
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 5:10am
ak_m_f wrote:
salman_s wrote:
ak_m_f wrote:
Angel wrote:
salman_s wrote:
[
hi angel
how do you know that if there were no indonesians living in that region still the earthquakes would have occured? |
By studying the geology of the earth, seeing where the tectonic plates are, volcanos etc. It's not that hard to see a mountain with a hole in it, and perhaps with smoking coming out
And oh because it is noted that area has these, so it would have happened anyway with or without people
and regarding other regions where no people live still earthquakes and volcanoes occur, then that is Allah's will. Allah does what he wills and we cannot question him. |
Typical answer that is non satisfactory and one that doesn't answer if you don't believe in God
Try again Salman
| Here is the map of tectonic plates. Indonesia lies close to it. |
Allah knows what happened in the past, what is happening in present and what will happen in future.
Allah is the All-Knower of the unseen and the seen.
Allah knows where there will be sinners born on the earth, so accordingly Allah has set the tectonic plates.
Allah knows best
|
In the map there is a square box in saudi arabia.. I wonder why? |
but tell me has any major earthquake struck saudi arabia till now? never. see, Allah is able to do all things.
|
Posted By: salman_s
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 5:12am
ak_m_f wrote:
salman_s wrote:
ops154 wrote:
salman_s wrote:
[QUOTE]
Allah is the One Who owns us fully and nothing happens in the universe except as a result of His will
|
So again do you believe it's god will for what is happening in Iraq, Afghanistan and Palestine?
|
Allah is the One Who owns us fully and nothing happens in the universe except as a result of His will
yes, it is Allah's will for what is happening in iraq, afghanistan and palestine
it is testing times for we muslims. Allah is testing us in our lives. we muslims need to be patient and constantly fear Allah and worship Allah (alone) and be dutiful to Allah and seek Allah's mercy.
|
reading quran in the middle of a battle is not enough, you also need tactic, weapons and will to fight.
Its a combination of tactic,weapon, and help from God that makes you win the battle.
|
yes, i agree ak.
|
Posted By: ak_m_f
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 5:16am
salman_s wrote:
In the map there is a square box in saudi arabia.. I wonder why? |
but tell me has any major earthquake struck saudi arabia till now? never. see, Allah is able to do all things. [/QUOTE]
Its not active. It still does have potential.
|
Posted By: salman_s
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 5:18am
ops154 wrote:
ak_m_f wrote:
ops154 wrote:
ak_m_f wrote:
Its the indians who want to see white skin. ops do you know about the democratic caste system in India? Do you know that they rape white tourist in India? does anyone knows what Indian did at the 18th Commonwealth Games?. |
I don't so please explain. Also I don't have to worry what Indians do to white people as I don't plan on going over there anytime soon. It sounds like they would rather have my dog then me go over there anyways.
|
| some of the incidents I can recall of my head are these:
In 2003 Swiss diplomat was raped in India. in 2005 German tourist raped.
Concerned over recent incidents of rape and killing of foreign tourists, India's Union Tourism Ministry would soon introduce "tourist cards" to ensure the safety of international guests........
|
Talk abot luv for white skin.... sickenin....
|
Well isn't that nice of Salmans country. Please Salman tell us more how your country is so god fearing and better than Indonesia.
|
so why are you arguing with me? i am a muslim. Islam forbids all such haraam things and the ultimate penalty for these sins is hell fire. now the only people you can argue with are the indian hindus. ask them why they look at animal sex? ask them why they rape tourists? what does their religion teach? ask them not me.
and i am making a comparision between indian muslims and indonesian muslims.
|
Posted By: ak_m_f
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 5:21am
maybe the sins were done by non muslim indonesians ?
|
Posted By: peacemaker
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 6:47am
Assalamu Alaikum!
Brother Salman,
Regarding earthquakes, yes they are a sign of Qiyamah, and that, may or may not, be Allah's wrath. But we should not make comments on others' imaan and neither should we feel happy about others� suffering. Only Allah knows what He is doing.
We should not, for example, say that Indonesian Muslims are suffering because of this and this, and Indian Muslims are doing better than Indonesian Muslims. Such generalizations should not be made. Speak your mind without blaming entire group or people.
Only Allah(SWT) can judge a person's heart and only those who love this life more than the deen would feel death as a punishment from Allah(SWT).
If Allah(SWT) were to punish the insincere Muslims with death then that is better for them because they won't be punished in the next life. Allah(SWT) does not punish anyone twice for the same sin.
You should refrain from making judgements that only Allah(SWT) can make.
I hope you would understand that sensitivities at such points of calamities run very high. We should be very careful what we speak in this respect.
The best thing that we can do is to help those people in any way we can, and pray for them.
And what has happened to them can happen to anyone regardless of one�s Geographical location.
Peace
------------- Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13
|
Posted By: salman_s
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 7:33am
peacemaker wrote:
Assalamu Alaikum!
Brother Salman,
Regarding earthquakes, yes they are a sign of Qiyamah, and that, may or may not, be Allah's wrath. But we should not make comments on others' imaan and neither should we feel happy about others� suffering. Only Allah knows what He is doing.
We should not, for example, say that Indonesian Muslims are suffering because of this and this, and Indian Muslims are doing better than Indonesian Muslims. Such generalizations should not be made. Speak your mind without blaming entire group or people.
Only Allah(SWT) can judge a person's heart and only those who love this life more than the deen would feel death as a punishment from Allah(SWT).
If Allah(SWT) were to punish the insincere Muslims with death then that is better for them because they won't be punished in the next life. Allah(SWT) does not punish anyone twice for the same sin.
You should refrain from making judgements that only Allah(SWT) can make.
I hope you would understand that sensitivities at such points of calamities run very high. We should be very careful what we speak in this respect.
The best thing that we can do is to help those people in any way we can, and pray for them.
And what has happened to them can happen to anyone regardless of one�s Geographical location.
Peace
|
jazakallah khair peacemaker
|
Posted By: Angel
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 7:34am
hail to peacemaker
Salman, just because indonesia has the largest muslim population does not mean that ALL of the country is. Nor that all muslims are being sinful, mostly are innocent people anyway just trying to live with what little they have. What happens in natural disaster whether you associate that with gods will (or wrath) the thing is, it is indiscriminate because whether a place has many of one kind, the truth is it is mixed with many faiths and beliefs.
So really you can not say who and who isn't getting punished or not (if you believe that it is God's wrath)
------------- ~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
|
Posted By: salman_s
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 7:36am
ak_m_f wrote:
salman_s wrote:
In the map there is a square box in saudi arabia.. I wonder why? |
but tell me has any major earthquake struck saudi arabia till now? never. see, Allah is able to do all things.
|
Its not active. It still does have potential.
[/QUOTE]
thats a wonderful excuse ak.
inspite of saudi arabia being in square box, yet no major earthquake has struck saudi arabia till now. see, Allah is able to do all things.
|
Posted By: salman_s
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 7:40am
Angel wrote:
hail to peacemaker
Salman, just because indonesia has the largest muslim population does not mean that ALL of the country is. Nor that all muslims are being sinful, mostly are innocent people anyway just trying to live with what little they have. What happens in natural disaster whether you associate that with gods will (or wrath) the thing is, it is indiscriminate because whether a place has many of one kind, the truth is it is mixed with many faiths and beliefs.
So really you can not say who and who isn't getting punished or not (if you believe that it is God's wrath)
|
alright angel, then i should say that this calamity is to the indonesians no matter from what faith they come from, but i must say that indonesia has the largest muslim population in the world.
|
Posted By: salman_s
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 7:42am
i agree with what peacemaker said. peacemaker, jazakallah khair i really liked your post.
|
Posted By: Angel
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 7:47am
salman_s wrote:
[
Allah knows where there will be sinners born on the earth, so accordingly Allah has set the tectonic plates.
Allah knows best
|
oh come on! for goodness sake Salman its not all about sinners and punishing them.
I've told you that natural disasters happen all over including where no one is. Many innocent faithful people, including children, are affected when it does happen near them.
And other thing Salman, is islamic to discriminate against against one group of muslims who are different over that of another? And is it islamic to say that you are better than that of another muslim ?
------------- ~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
|
Posted By: Angel
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 7:51am
salman_s wrote:
but i must say that indonesia has the largest muslim population in the world. |
SO? and that is suppose to prove what?
------------- ~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
|
Posted By: salman_s
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 8:04am
Angel wrote:
I've told you that natural disasters happen all over including where no one is. Many innocent faithful people, including children, are affected when it does happen near them. |
Happenings of earthquakes and the like from other destructive and disastrous events are the greatest evidence of the astonishing power of Allah subhanahu wa ta`ala. Earthquakes are from among the soldiers of Allah, subhanahu wa ta`ala, subjected to His order. He, subhanahu wa ta`ala, causes fear in the hearts of those whom He wills, teaches lessons whom He wills and punishes whom He wills.
"And none can know the Forces of your Lord, except He." (74:31)
"For to Allah belong the Forces of the heavens and the earth." (48:7)
If the Ummah leaves Allah's Sharee`ah, ignores the Deen of Allah ta`ala and follows its enemies, Allah will subjugate it to His armies, which no one knows except He. From among these armies are the earthquakes.
"Such is the Seizure of your Lord when He seizes the towns while they are doing wrong. Verily, His Seizure is painful and severe." (11:102)
"When We decide to destroy a town, We (first) send a definite order (to obey Allah and be righteous) to those among them who are given the good things of this life. Then, they transgress therein, and thus the word (of torment) is justified against (them). Then we destroy it with complete destruction." (17:16)
Allah, subhanahu wa ta`ala, with this earthquake makes clear to His servants a plain reality, that the kingdom of the heavens and the earth is in His Hands, subhanahu wa ta`ala, and that He is the Irresistible and Dominant over His servants.
Some people may be astonished by what the West has from the materialistic power, from various weapons, aircraft carriers, bombs, satellites etc., and they forget that Allah, subhanahu wa ta`ala, allowed that piece of land to move and shake, being able to shake the force of the West and the East. Everything is in His Hands, He has power over all things, and no one in the Heavens and the Earth can weaken Him, subhanahu wa ta`ala. Appearance of the earthquakes therefore points us to a different reality that may be absent in the minds of some people, those who are busy with this world and who are servants of materialism.
This earthquake also reminds us of the Day of Judgment. The Day when all of the Earth will shake, and not only one part of it. Allahu subhanahu wa ta`ala says,
"O mankind! Fear your Lord and be dutiful to Him! Verily, the earthquake of the Hour is a terrible thing. The Day you shall see it, every nursing mother will forget her nursling, and every pregnant one shall drop her load, and you shall see mankind as in a drunken state. Yet they will not be drunken, but the Torment of Allah will be severe." (22:1-2)
Look what is left after the earthquake from destroyed buildings and houses, deaths of thousands, and families seeking refuge outside of their homes. What state is that in which everyone is running away, caring about nothing? So what do you think of the Day of Judgment?
"That Day shall a man flee from his own brother, and from his mother and his father, and from his wife and his children." (80:34-36)
"One the day (when the first blowing of the Trumpet is blown), the earth and the mountains will shake violently." (79:6)
Allah ta`ala warns His servants with this earthquake to learn a lesson and be admonished, and to be ready and prepare themselves for the Day of sorting out, the day of the great earthquake, that will shake all of the earth.
Allah ta`ala has placed in this universe Sunan, fixed and manifest laws, neither do they change nor are they replaceable. He does not have any kinship with anyone, He is the sole Creator and Ruler, and He will question and hold accountable everyone, including prophets and messengers. "Then surely, We shall question those to whom it (the Book) was sent and We shall question the Messengers." (7:6)
From among the established Sunan of Allah is that He does not send punishment except due to sin and He does not remove it except after repentance. Allah ta`ala says, "Whatever misfortune befalls you, it is because of what your hands have earned." (42:30)
Allah the Mighty and Majestic says: "Evil and mischief have appeared on land and sea because of what the hands of men have earned, that Allah may make them taste a part of that which they have done, in order that they may return (by repenting to Allah)." [30:41]
Every disaster and every calamity that befalls the servants is due to their sins and wrongdoing. So know, servants of Allah, what wrongdoing does to its doers.
What has taken Adam and Eve from the Jannah except wrongdoing, and what Has drowned all of the people on the earth at the time of Nooh, to the point that water reached the peak of mountains, except wrongdoing?
Who is it who sent the furious violent wind upon the people of `Aad, so that they were seen lying overthrown and destroyed, as if they were hollow trunks of palm-trees? Who is it who sent the awful cry upon the people of Thamud until it cut their hearts inside their bodies, and they all fell dead without exception? Who lifted the villages of the people of Loot till the angels heard barking of their dogs, then turned them upside down, and then rained upon them a rain of stones?
That is the immediate punishment for wrongdoing: drowning, fire, earthquakes, destruction, famine, raging wind... "And the torment of the hereafter is far more severe and more lasting." (20:127)
Do we not take admonition and lesson? Allah subhanahu wa ta`ala says, "Did We not destroy the ancients? So shall We make the later generations to follow them. Thus do We deal with the Mujrimoon (criminals, disbelievers, sinners.). Woe that Day to the deniers (of the Day of Resurrection)!" [77:16-19]
The earthquake of Indonesia is just a warning from Allah, subhanahu wa ta`ala - not only to the people of that country alone, but rather to the Muslims in general, in all lands - that they may return to their Lord and their Deen. Otherwise a punishment will come upon them. Allah ta`ala says, "So We seized each of them for his sins." (29:40)
Many of the Muslims today have gathered many sins. We see those who delay and neglect prayers, eat haram, deal with riba, do not fulfill their trusts, order the evil and forbid the good. Those who indulge in mixing, display of awra, listening to music and songs, and those who have abandoned the Qur'an. All these exist in our society. Let us fear Allah subhanahu wa ta`ala and preserve what we have from the blessings, for wrongdoing removes blessings, rather it changes it to a curse. And let us be warned of an evil end, for Allah gives us a chance but is not neglectful. What has happened to the previous nations and some of the current ones will happen to us if we obey the Shaytan and go far from the path of the Most Merciful. These are the sunan of Allah that will never change.
"Or do you feel secure that He, Who is over the Heaven, will not cause the earth to sink with you, then behold it shakes (as in an earthquake)? Or do you feel secure that He, Who is over the heaven, will not send against you a violent whirlwind? Then you shall know how (terrible) was My Warning." (67:16-17)
Let us pause and ask ourselves what has been the tangible impact on us since we have heard and seen this earthquake, and what it has left from the mighty and scary destruction that makes the hearts bleed. The happy one is one who learns from the calamity of others, and the sad one is by whom these calamities pass while he takes no lesson from them.
Just recently the sun eclipsed, then followed the floods, then the strong wind, and then this earthquake happened. The people are still as they were before, you see no change. You do not see people going back to the path of Allah and you do not see any crowds in mosques. It is unfortunate that the explanation offered for these events is that they are normal natural disasters, and that they do not link it to what happens to people due to their wrongdoing. Theirs is clearly an incorrect interpretation.
"And We sent not the signs except to warn, and to make them afraid (of destruction)." (17:59)
Angel wrote:
another thing Salman, is islamic to discriminate against against one group of muslims who are different over that of another? And is it islamic to say that you are better than that of another muslim ?
|
where am i discriminating angel? i know they are my brothers and sisters. i am not boasting myself neither i am feeling proud that i am a better muslim than the indonesian muslims. what i am saying is that a muslim must continuously try to become better everyday, and especially after such earthquakes, he must turn to his Lord (Allah) in repentance and ask forgiveness of his sins and lead a better life. even i want myself that indonesians become better muslims. and they can larn from such earhquakes.
|
Posted By: salman_s
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 8:08am
Angel wrote:
salman_s wrote:
but i must say that indonesia has the largest muslim population in the world. |
SO? and that is suppose to prove what?
|
my response is to your following statements angel
Angel wrote:
What happens in natural disaster whether you associate that with gods will (or wrath) the thing is, it is indiscriminate because whether a place has many of one kind, the truth is it is mixed with many faiths and beliefs.
So really you can not say who and who isn't getting punished or not (if you believe that it is God's wrath)
|
|
Posted By: Angel
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 9:30am
Salman just re-read Peacemarkers post again, I don't think you fullly understand it.
------------- ~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
|
Posted By: Angel
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 9:33am
Abeer23 wrote:
Arabian Knight has also made a very good point. Just because Natural disaster is one way Allah s.w.t punishes, doesn't mean that all natural disaster is a punishment! Everything happens by Allah's will. But not every mishap is a sign of Allah Ta'la's anger or punishment. In the story of Musa and Kidhr, the parents of the boy were good people, their son' death though it was a misfortune in their eyes, was in no way A punishment from Allah. |
------------- ~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
|
Posted By: Hayfa
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 10:05am
We do not know Allah's will.. We cannot think to even know all of thw why's in life. As I mentioned earlier, we don't know what is really Allah's punishment and what is not. How else can one explain where there is the longest life span? Is it about this life or the next? Japan has one of the longest life spans, is generally a Buddhist country that exists on islands that have major earthquakes and volanoes.... none of us can know the mysteries of Allah.
From the World Health Organization-2002
Countries with Longest Life Span
Japan |
75.0 |
San Marino |
73.4 |
Sweden |
73.3 |
Switzerland |
73.2 |
Monaco |
72.9 |
Iceland |
72.8 |
Italy |
72.7 |
Australia |
72.6 |
Spain |
72.6 |
Andorra |
72.2 |
Canada |
72.0 |
France |
72.0 |
Norway |
72.0 |
Germany |
71.8 |
Luxembourg |
71.5 |
Austria |
71.4 |
Israel |
71.4 |
Netherlands |
71.2 |
Belgium |
71.1 |
Finland |
71.1 |
Countries with lowest
Sierra Leone |
28.6 |
Lesotho |
31.4 |
Angola |
33.4 |
Zimbabwe |
33.6 |
Swaziland |
34.2 |
Malawi |
34.9 |
Zambia |
34.9 |
Burundi |
35.1 |
Liberia |
35.3 |
Afghanistan |
35.5 |
Niger |
35.5 |
Burkina Faso |
35.6 |
Botswana |
35.7 |
Somalia |
36.8 |
Mozambique |
36.9 |
Democratic Republic of the Congo |
37.1 |
Central African Republic |
37.4 |
------------- When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
|
Posted By: salman_s
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 11:02pm
Angel wrote:
Colin wrote:
the evidence is the earthquake which is constantly striking the indonesian regions. Allah punishes the wrongdoers. after the tsunami struck, i heard many indonesians themselves saying that Allah has punished them because of their sins. |
The tsunami also killed people in India, Sri Lanka, The Maldives, Thailand, and Malaysia. I wonder why god felt the need to punish so many people of different religions.. I wonder why he only chose to punish those unlucky enough to be living in coastal areas...is there something about sea air that makes people sin more than those living away from the sea?
regarding places where there are no people living and earthquakes and volcanoes strike, then Allah does what he wills. we cannot question Allah. |
I am not questioning god. These events happen because we live on a geologically unstable planet..
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better watch out now, salman is goign to say Allah willed, made an unstable planet
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this is what islam is - complete submission to Allah
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Posted By: salman_s
Date Posted: 30 May 2006 at 11:06pm
Hayfa wrote:
We do not know Allah's will.. We cannot think to even know all of thw why's in life. As I mentioned earlier, we don't know what is really Allah's punishment and what is not. |
but what is wrong if the indonesians take these earthquakes as a punishment from Allah? Allah likes repentance very much. and indonesians should take it as a punishment from Allah and repent to Allah for their sins and try to become better muslims.
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