As Salamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu 

This post is addressed only to those of us who believe that despite the fact that Allah Subhanahu wa Ta�ala is the Most Merciful, He is also strict in Punishment. Those members who fear Allah�s punishment and at the same time Hope for His Mercy. Those who believe that Sunnah is a very important part of Deen.

I have just read the thread �Halal Music� which is now closed.

I am not sure how many times I have walked down this road, during the short time I have been a member here. I truly believe that my not-too-active participation on the boards is a blessing in disguise for me.

I really don�t think that those of us who quote from the Glorious Qur'an and Hadith need to apologize every time we do so. The only reason why some of us back down is because we are afraid of Allah�s Wrath and Punishment. Yes Allah gets angry and He Punishes too.

None of us on the face of the earth today are following strictly the teachings of Islam based on the Glorious Qur'an and Sunnah. Alhamdulillah we are all trying our best to revive the true teachings of Islam and that is why we participate in these forums and discussions to share experience, knowledge and help each other to overcome the difficulties we are facing in our daily lives.

Assalamu alaikum Sister Alwardah,

Sister, I sense your extreme frustration in your post, I feel that frustration as well and agree with what you have said.  It is very difficult when authentic ahadith and wisdom for our esteemed scholars is mocked at and discredited on an Islamic site!  This happens over and over here and causes much hard feelings and disagreements.

Perhaps your solution of not quoting ahadith or scholars any more might tone down the animosity that occurs, but, this is an Islamic website and we should be able to quote at will.  How terrible that it has come to this....

May Allah guide us all to His straight path and may we learn to cope with being the "strangers".

Peace, ummziba.

Bismillah,

Salaamu Alaykum, Flower!  The salient point to know and for us all to know is that Muslims, Believers, come in many different sizes, shapes, colors, attitudes, theological bases and stages in our lives.  If you are tired of discussion of the same thing repeatedly, we all get groggy and dizzy from such things at times.  There are many groups for literalists as you are out there.  I am searching for a group also where I could discuss things with fellow Muslims on the basis of similar beliefs.  I fear that we are too small in number to differentiate in this way.  Also, if we avoid each other, how will we come to understand and respect each other?

Peace

As Salamu Alaikum Sister Ummziba

Is this an Islamic Forum? Sometimes I really wonder.

Sister it is not so much frustration but the fear of confusing those seeking knowledge. By quoting from the Authentic sources, which are refuted by some, we are confusing those who are truly seeking the truth and helping those who are making a mockery our religion. I know by keeping silent we will be committing a sin, but I am sure we can find other ways of guiding those truly looking for the truth according to the Shariah.

It is a very serious matter and very frightening too, when we start to pick and chose Ayah and Hadith. Yes there are weak Hadith, which our esteemed scholars have sorted out for us, but we don't quote  these on Boards.

But every time, we deny this Hadith or Ayah or say they do not apply to our time and circumstances we are implying:

1. That the Glorious Qur'an and the Prophet (Sallallahu Alayhi wa Sallam) were not a Mercy to all mankind, but only to the generation who lived during the time of the Prophet (Sallallahu Alayhi wa Sallam). We have now broken the very foundation on which Islam is based. Yes there are some Ayat which were revealed especially for certain incidents during that time, and some are stories of early prophets � the general application and wisdom will always apply to all generations. Anyway that�s according to my knowledge.
2. By rejecting the works of the Companions, (remember they transmitted the Ahadith) and the renowned scholars we are claiming that we have a better understanding of the circumstances, history and the Arabic language than them.  Audho Billahe minash Shaitanir-Rajim! May Allah Subhanahu wa Ta�ala protect us from the whispers of Shaitan and our own arrogance. Ameen!

 This is the main type of Fitnah I wish to avoid at all cost.

What I still cannot understand is from where do those who refute Sunnah and  Ayat get their historical and other facts � it is obvious from some scholars or other unless they lived during the time of the Prophet (Sallallahu Alayhi wa Sallam) and are re-incarnated during our time to show us the correct part because the renowned scholars have made a mess of the Shariah. Audho Billahe minash Shaitanir-Rajim! Allah knows best.

I know most people will not agree with me about being silent but Insha Allah I will from now on. I will continue posting articles in the Basic Islam and Qur'an and Sunnah sections.

Ameen! To your Duas.

herjihad wrote:  Also, if we avoid each other, how will we come to understand and respect each other? Peace

As Salamu Alaikum Sister Herjihad

Is this possible here in this forum- understand and respect?

Sister let me emphasize a very important point. I don�t have any problems on how you or anyone chooses or desires to worship Allah Subhanahu wa Ta�ala Alhamdulillah that is between you and HIM.

But I definitely have a problem when you accuse those of us (me or anyone else) who quote an Ayah or Hadith containing a warning about Hell, that we are saying you are going to Hell Audho Billahe minash Shaitanir-Rajim! How can we when we don�t even know our own position with Allah. All we are doing is conveying Allah�s Message from the authentic sources. I don�t understand how you can accuse us for something that Allah Subhanahu wa Ta�ala is Saying.

Alhamdulillah! This time around the disagreement was not between You and me. Alhamdulillah!

May Allah Subhanahu wa Ta�ala always keep us on His Siratul-Mustaqeem Ameen!

Wa Alaikum Salam

Alwardah wrote: Is this an Islamic Forum? Sometimes I really wonder.

me too

Alwardah wrote: herjihad wrote:  Also, if we avoid each other, how will we come to understand and respect each other? Peace As Salamu Alaikum Sister Herjihad Is this possible here in this forum- understand and respect? Sister let me emphasize a very important point. I don�t have any problems on how you or anyone chooses or desires to worship Allah Subhanahu wa Ta�ala Alhamdulillah that is between you and HIM. But I definitely have a problem when you accuse those of us (me or anyone else) who quote an Ayah or Hadith containing a warning about Hell, that we are saying you are going to Hell Audho Billahe minash Shaitanir-Rajim! How can we when we don�t even know our own position with Allah. All we are doing is conveying Allah�s Message from the authentic sources. I don�t understand how you can accuse us for something that Allah Subhanahu wa Ta�ala is Saying. Alhamdulillah! This time around the disagreement was not between You and me. Alhamdulillah! May Allah Subhanahu wa Ta�ala always keep us on His Siratul-Mustaqeem Ameen! Wa Alaikum Salam

Alaykum Assalaam Sister Flower,

Of course I read your original post and the last one directed to Sister Ummziba also.  I just don't want to take the time to refute what you say point-by-point because you probably don't want to read it, so what's the point? 

Well, you see there are many, many people who are Muslims like me who have been driven out of the Mosques or just don't attend or try to learn how to read Quran and other basic things because the atmosphere is guided by ideas in the posts you just made.  I think you are wrong about some things.  I love and respect our Loving Lord and our Blessed Prophets.  Maybe you and others like you will not see the arrogance in your post that you just made.  Maybe you will. 

The point is:  I have a community now.  Sisters whom I love and love me have met through IC and either agree with each other on this basic issue or agree not to discuss something we know we won't come to terms with.  Others out there need a community also.  They come here all the time lonely and looking for help or advice. 

Your advice, although you may feel that it's just the Quran and the prophets and the scholars advice, isn't the only valid advice.  People need to be able to choose.  And don't you see your implication in your statement that I and others like me will misguide people?  AstagfirAllah!  Islaam is so wonderful and beautiful and I don't worry that hardliners and literalists will misguide people because Allah, The Most Capable, is in charge, not me.  I'm just going to keep trying to convey the love for Allah that I have in my heart so that others may benefit from it.  (And to be honest, it makes me feel good to reach out a hand to those who need it also.)

Peace

Assalamu Alaikum!

Ok, now I have a question from you all ( including myself ). Can we,  or should we, have a unified stance, regardless of our personal differences, on any topic to convey the Message of Islam to people, whether or not they post anything at the forum ( as many of them may only read what we write here ) , who come here to learn from all over the world? This may not be an easy question. Please take  your time, and then reply.

Peace

Bismillah irrahman irrahim

Assalamu alaikum

sis alwardah Allah swt tells us in Holy Quran that He is with those who do sabr, bout a while back i decided what u have said and then came across ayah in Surah Al-Imran which mentions how people of previous ummahs were destroyed due to their abandoning of enjoining the good and forbiding the evil while they knew of it.  sis we are called the best of nations due to this exact reason. there is also a hadith which mentions that a person is going to be asked bout his knowledge, if he knew of some thing but did not advise on being asked.

u need to realize that when u r trying to answer some1 with best of ur ability and knowledge, only for the pleasure of ur Lord and to uphold His deen and at the same time being polite and observing manners. then u r earning the reward of Allah swt, if the person finds it in himself/herself to follow the truth then alhamdulillah double the reward for u, if not khair u done ur bit. if u hear bad words for stating the laws of Allah swt then do sabr and again alhamdulillah more thwab so see Allah swt has put so much in for the da'i. i dont know why u want to deprive urself of such reward, i know it is also stated that if what u going to say is going2 cause a fitnah then silence is better.  but u need to analyze the consequences, this forum being sort of dawah way could be giving wrong image of of deen. there is another narration which states that u should choose lesser of two evils and sis due to many factors there is already enuf wrong stuff out there bout our beautifull deen, dont need no more. so i think this day n age some of us some time has to stand up for our deen.

now u mentioned bout not referencing the Ayaat and Ahadith to lesson the confussion but im telling u people would ask proof, and im against this moreso due to one of Hadith Qudsi which states that Allah swt remembers His slave when slave remembers Him. so im sorry but cant let the opportunity go by

lastly sis herjihad, i can tell u one thing making my Lord witness of my innermost intention that arrogance, pride and all this, if seven heaven away would still not be at a comfortable distance for me due to many Ahadith mentioning that existance of even a spec of pride is enuf for to be thrown in hellfire, audhubillah. n im sure i could say same thing bout sis alwardah, ummziba or anybody else who sincerely seeks the path.  my sister tells me that when u have kids u start prefering them and their happiness to ur own. sis if a person tries to adhere to every ruling of our dear Lord and avoids every thing with a slight doubt then u get this love inside u for ur Lord, u put ur Lord first in every dealing of urs, a blessing from Him ofcourse that if some1 is doing something which is in slight contradiction to ur Lord's way disturbs u. u want every1 to come to complete submission, people who state the ruling simply say it for this reason nothing else

i think we should try to tolerate different viewpoints, having patience but at the same time state what is right by our Lord in goodly manner.

wassalam

As Salamu Alaikum

Sister Herjihad,

Insha Allah to each its own.

May Allah Subhanahu wa Ta�ala bless you and your family with Khairan in both this world and the next Ameen!

Brother Peacemaker I am not sure how you are going to achieve a unified stance.

May Allah Subhanahu wa Ta�ala make your task easy for you Ameen!

Sister Fatima, I totally agree with what you are saying, but Alhamdulillah there are other ways of getting Ajar (reward) from Allah Subhanahu wa Ta�ala. 

Insha Allah I will still be posting articles under Islam Basic and Qur'an and Sunnah and Pillars.

May Allah Subhanahu wa Ta�ala grant you abundance Sabr. Ameen!

Assalamu Alaikum Brother Peacemaker and Sisters:

This is a sad subject. As someone who came to Islam as an adult with a very inquisitive mind and a need to be shown what I am being told, I feel that it is a necessity that daleel be given on all matters. Even with daleel there will still be some disagreements, but not all daleel is a clear cut matter.

If we are not supposed to discuss these things, how will we be able to learn? I think that anyone should be allowed to question something they don't understand, or which doesn't make sense, but they should do so in a respectful manner.

When I was first learning about Islam, if I had been made to feel bad for asking the hard questions, I probably would have given up. You must be able to answer questions and present proof without taking it personally. Just as someone who is asking a question or seeking an answer should not be made to feel as if they are doing something wrong for asking. No matter what the question. If the matter wasn't bothering them, they probably wouldn't ask.

I personally ask questions and if something just doesn't make sense I want to know why. That does not mean that I reject something, that means I need to understand it fully before I can accept it. It has to have some basis in logic, and some Islamic proof. I am not trying to be difficult, this is the way my mind functions. That is why I always ask for the daleel. This is something that Aisha, the wife of the Prophet(PBUH) did also. She would ask until it made sense to her. There is nothing wrong in this, and if you don't ask until you get a satisfactory answer, then you will always have a doubt.

I also believe if someone is rejecting an opinion, then they should have proof for this rejection. They should bring forth the Ayat, Hadith, or opinion, that gives them reason to doubt. I think this is only fair. If you cannot give a valid, Islamic reason for why you reject or accept something, then that is your opinion and should not be argued as based in Islam.

The question of music is a very old one and many scholars have different opinions. There are Hadith in which the Prophet allowed music, singing, and dancing. If these were completely forbidden, the Prophet would not have allowed such things, nor taken part in them. There are also Hadith which name certain instruments as haraam, and music as whole. Since, some was allowed and some forbidden, it would be entirely safe to say that music is Makhruh, and you must make up your own mind.  It is entirely up to the individual, as all things always are in the end.

Once you have given your daleel on any subject, you have done the best that you can do. There is no point in arguing further, as you have done your duty as a Muslim, and there is no compulsion in religion. We cannot force another Muslim to conform to something, either for or against, if they do not choose to do so.

What we have to remember is that Allah(SWT) gave us all free will and the ability to process knowledge and seek logic. Your way of processing or understanding something may be totally different from mine, and mine will different from the Sister or Brother next door. If Allah(SWT) had wanted us all to think and be the same, He would have created us that way. So we should accept our differences, point out the right and prohibit the wrong, but in a peaceful, respectful manner that does not make anyone feel personally attacked or denigrated in anyway.

ZEA J wrote: Alwardah wrote: Is this an Islamic Forum? Sometimes I really wonder.   me too

Salaam...

I have often wondered that as well, at least they are better behaved here that they are on some of the other online forums.

Assalamu Alaikum!

Masha Allah I am also very inquisitive, Sister Mishmish. I had the first debate with my father when I was 8 years old ( Grade 3 ). I asked him that what he had taught me in Qur�an about Sun�s position in the solar system was different from what I was taught in the class room ( well, modern scientific theory conforms to Qur�anic position as far as Sun�s movement is concerned, but it didn't at that time). I remember that it was late night and he was sleeping, I woke him up to discuss the matter ( he had given me the permission to wake him up to ask questions/ discuss any topic, and I used to avail it at will, when I look back, I think, I was really giving him hard time with my little mind).

The point is you and I are same or similar in this respect.

So, a proper discussion with evidences from Qur�an, Sunnah and opinion of Scholars can properly direct us towards the conclusion on any topic.

Now how should an "average knowledge seeker" ( member or guest ), let us exclude you and me, whether Muslim or non-Muslim get the Message of Islam on a topic if half of us are on one side and the other half on other side, and "endless" argument goes on and on with no conclusion in sight? What would be the way of Prophet ( SAW ) and his companions to convey the Message of Islam to the Mankind? Had they not been unified in their position, how would they have conveyed the Message to the Mankind including super powers of the time? By being "unified" doesn�t mean that we may not have our personal differences, or we may not discuss or ask questions, it simply means here that being as one "team" to convey the Message of Allah without any doubt to an average knowledge seeker of Islam.

Jazak Allah Khair for a very good post, Sister Mishmish. .

Peace

As Salamu Alaikum Sister Mishmish and Brother Peacemaker

Jazakallahu Khairan for your wise words.

I think it will be great if we can all agree to disagree by posting daleel in support of our claim and nobody takes things personally.

I sincerely pray from the bottom of my heart that we can achieve this.

Wa Alaikum Salam

Assalamu Alaikum!

Alwardah,

Yes, insha Allah, we will achieve this. Jazak Allah Khair, Sister, and hope that you would continue to take part in all such discussions.

Peace