Have you actually gone to the Triniterians? who actually do believe Jesus is God.

What I think the problem is that some people have gotten it wrong about the word becoming flesh, which some must have interpreted as God becoming flesh/human.

I've been doing some reading on the trinity which this issue of yours is connected with. And found some interesting stuff.

that maybe God can morph (as in the physical sense) from n incorporeal being to a temporal being. If this was the case then the nature of God is not infinite but is dual.

This is what don't understand, and I know we (the board) have gone down this road before, Why would it be that the nature of God is not infinite ? If you say that God in the human physical body is limited in what he can do, then I would might agree with you..sort of. If God can do all things, create everything then don't you think it might just be possible that God has a way to and can morph into a temporal being and back to incorporeal being, and perhaps back to temporal being. If God is limitless in what He can do then he obviously can do this.

And If Angel Gabriel showed himself to Muhammmed dressed as a man sometimes in public, then why not God Himself do the same ? Both God and Angel Gabriel are incorporeal beings, are they not ? while God is the greater. Wouldn't the concept be the same as that of Gabriel ?

Perhaps God is both infinite and temporal in nature as if representing some eternal balance within himself such as Yin and Yang for a more extreme view.

Masculine and femimine .

I don't know about balancing Himself since as the story goes, it was only one time. If He was balancing Himself out then it would be back and forth but it was/is not.

Have you actually gone to the Triniterians? who actually do believe Jesus is God.

What I think the problem is that some people have gotten it wrong about the word becoming flesh, which some must have interpreted as God becoming flesh/human.

I've been doing some reading on the trinity which this issue of yours is connected with. And found some interesting stuff.

that maybe God can morph (as in the physical sense) from n incorporeal being to a temporal being. If this was the case then the nature of God is not infinite but is dual.

This is what don't understand, and I know we (the board) have gone down this road before, Why would it be that the nature of God is not infinite ? If you say that God in the human physical body is limited in what he can do, then I would might agree with you..sort of. If God can do all things, create everything then don't you think it might just be possible that God has a way to and can morph into a temporal being and back to incorporeal being, and perhaps back to temporal being. If God is limitless in what He can do then he obviously can do this.

And If Angel Gabriel showed himself to Muhammmed dressed as a man sometimes in public, then why not God Himself do the same ? Both God and Angel Gabriel are incorporeal beings, are they not ? while God is the greater. Wouldn't the concept be the same as that of Gabriel ?

Perhaps God is both infinite and temporal in nature as if representing some eternal balance within himself such as Yin and Yang for a more extreme view.

Masculine and femimine .

I don't know about balancing Himself since as the story goes, it was only one time. If He was balancing Himself out then it would be back and forth but it was/is not.

I have come to understand and this is somewhat inline with my own thoughts, that reading some verses Jesus was godlike and this is taken as Jesus being God, for some, but being godlike is not actually being God.

In the bible Jesus does say "godlike and ye are gods" but is it in capital letter ? If Jesus actually meant he is God don't you think he would've have used "G" instead ?

It's all in the way its written. The Bible or Jesus doesn't actually say he is God, when I have said that Jesus said he was God, I was taking in the sense of others not my own actual beliefs, that being said I also somewhat understood the the term differently "Jesus is God" as not being God despite the capital "G" in the phrase. I thought people knew that Jesus wasn't God so I was trying to explain how they might see how Jesus is God, but I was wrong and people (some) actually do see Jesus is God.  So that bit has been rendered fruitless but as I said above that things have come into line with my thoughts about the issue not all is fruitless . I think

But since some others, namely the triniterians actually do believe that Jesus is God, not sure at this stage how they got to understand or why they believe that. But it seems also they are wrong.

must go, got to do the other post on the trinity

There is nothing "spooky" about all of this.

I will list an Ayat from the Quran concerning this topic, that is in plain language, easy to understand. But watch how allegory will creep into the responses of those who respond to the Ayat I list. You will see clearly how we can be easily lead astray.

Allah is plain in His language when He says;

19:17. So she screened herself from them. Then We sent to her Our spirit and it appeared to her as a well-made man.

No morphing, no magic.

DavidC wrote: Since God is beyond human understanding, it seems logical Jesus divinity is beyond our understanding too. DavidC

This statement calls to mind the introduction of many Bibles, "... translated from the Original tongues of the Lost Books of the Bible".

The Books were not lost, they were hidden by those who altered the words of the Books from their original places. Substituting the revealed word of God for their own word, then telling the people that it was from God.

I appreciate the Western man for one great reason alone. While all the other peoples of the Earth looked up at the sky and saw the rain come down, the Eastern people said, "Allah is great for giving us the rain". But, the Western man said, "I can do that" and seeded the clouds. While the people of the East marvelled at the Sun in the sky, Western man said, "I can do that" and produced nuclear power. While the people of the East marvelled at the Moon circling the Earth, Western man put up satellites and rockets.

Western man does not deal with Allah in a "spooky" way. He understands the Law of Cause and Effect. For there to be a real effect, there had to be a real cause, not a mystery spooky god.

God is Real.

DavidC wrote: ..... Christians believe Jesus was 100% man and 100% God =(200%). We are not denying the 100% that is reality, but there is also knowledge that can only be passed along through paradox, parable and symbolism. DavidC

This christian belief is based on conjecture only and that too, derived through the books of unknown authors which were selectively chosen based upon the recommendations of concil of humans gathered almost 5 centuries after Jesus; merely a guess work. The total argument usually given in support of this kind of belief is by asking the question that; is it not possible that since God is all powerfull, in his infinite capacity, he can come to earth in a human form? This is inherrantly a flawed reasoning as one can ask a question on similar basis that can God make such a load heavy that he himself can't lift it? Any answer to this question would be selfcontradicting. This type of reasoning works only for the ignorant people who would put their beliefs on conjectural mysteries. It is for this very reason that quran ask them to leave the conjecture and follow the true path based on facts. However, since the time of Prophet Jesus, extremely little probability exists that anyone can figure out facts from their available resources. Hence, there is all the more logical reasons for them to study Islam and recognise God through it without any conjectures, paradoxes, parables and symbolism. 

AhmadJoyia wrote: DavidC wrote: ..... Christians believe Jesus was 100% man and 100% God =(200%). We are not denying the 100% that is reality, but there is also knowledge that can only be passed along through paradox, parable and symbolism. DavidC This christian belief is based on conjecture only and that too, derived through the books of unknown authors which were selectively chosen based upon the recommendations of concil of humans gathered almost 5 centuries after Jesus; merely a guess work. The total argument usually given in support of this kind of belief is by asking the question that; is it not possible that since God is all powerfull, in his infinite capacity, he can come to earth in a human form? This is inherrantly a flawed reasoning as one can ask a question on similar basis that can God make such a load heavy that he himself can't lift it? Any answer to this question would be selfcontradicting. This type of reasoning works only for the ignorant people who would put their beliefs on conjectural mysteries. It is for this very reason that quran ask them to leave the conjecture and follow the true path based on facts. However, since the time of Prophet Jesus, extremely little probability exists that anyone can figure out facts from their available resources. Hence, there is all the more logical reasons for them to study Islam and recognise God through it without any conjectures, paradoxes, parables and symbolism.

i completely disagree....

conjecture? you mean...as in "guesswork" [webster's dictionary]

if so...than i ask you...is the enjeels also guess work?

the same enjeels that muhammed spoke of in sura 48:29? and numerous other sura chapters that proclaim the authenticity of gospels - as well as seeking the counsel of the gospels?

i ask then...where are these gospels that christians have somehow...someway...intentionally or ignorantly misplaced or lost or mishandled?  where?

and based on 'recomendations from councils 5 centuries after christ' - i may also ad that the holy spirit...the same one that happend on pentacost was also in the presence of the formulation of GOd's word (the NT) during the formation of the current gospels...whether it be the nkjv or niv or what have you...

it is just funny...here is a muslim...that - while her prophet TELLS her to rely on the enjeels....ALSO with the same breath....proclaims the the very same gospels are not to be trusted...when her prophet nowhere claims that the enjeels are to be discredited...so what is it? can the gospels be trusted? or not? yes ? or no? if yes...why isnt there a muslim enjeel accepted all throughout the ummah as truly inspired word of god...

and if no...you are simply arguing against your own religious tenets

so that very same question must be answered to the muslim who believes muhammed was a prophet of god...

he was told to recite....not write down....but recite what god had spoken to him....

but....

the quran ITSELF was not formulated until over 20 years AFTER muhammed died!!!

and beforehand.....the koran was based on pure, unadulterated....audio/verbal recitation!!!! not pen/ink/and paper medium ....which one is more reliable...imperfect human thought process of recitation...which is open to error...or written document?

so you answer me? is conjecture a very high possibility in the kuran as well...seeing as how their scriptures were not written in the form it is now right away - but 20+ years later...and not even by muhammed?  YES

tawhid

There is still no response to my question. Brother David you brought up two points: In one, you mentioned that Jesus is both 100% God and 100% human. In such a statement its quite hard to see that as not literal. If what it is to be human is made up of physical compositions and to be limited in time then perhaps the nature of God in Christianity is dualistic. I understand the great importance of Jesus' nature as he is important in both Christianity and in Islam but my point is if in fact mainstream Christianity holds Jesus as both God and man then this quite frankly changes the nature of God. If in fact we say (as Angel mentions) God can do anything then yes we are consequently left with the belief that God can change in nature.

But this philosophy itself would contradict Christian and Islamic theology. The nature of God by this concept is a changeable character and if so God is subject to time and space and is temporal in nature as well. So are we changing places here or what I still need to know in your words Christian brothers how can Jesus be both God and human with the given understanding in doctrinal text that God is changeless and immortal in nature?

Israfil wrote: There is still no response to my question. Brother David you brought up two points: In one, you mentioned that Jesus is both 100% God and 100% human. In such a statement its quite hard to see that as not literal. If what it is to be human is made up of physical compositions and to be limited in time then perhaps the nature of God in Christianity is dualistic. I understand the great importance of Jesus' nature as he is important in both Christianity and in Islam but my point is if in fact mainstream Christianity holds Jesus as both God and man then this quite frankly changes the nature of God. If in fact we say (as Angel mentions) God can do anything then yes we are consequently left with the belief that God can change in nature. But this philosophy itself would contradict Christian and Islamic theology. The nature of God by this concept is a changeable character and if so God is subject to time and space and is temporal in nature as well. So are we changing places here or what I still need to know in your words Christian brothers how can Jesus be both God and human with the given understanding in doctrinal text that God is changeless and immortal in nature?

a simple post...put seemingly ignorantly looked over by muslims (i am not calling a muslim ignorant)

god is great...right...."allahu akbar"

god can do anything he wants .... right?

god will do anyting he wants...right?

------------------

simply put...in the most simplest of terms...

the muslim denies...the greatness of god by discrediting that god became human....

but he muslim may say..."becomming a human is a step DOWN from being God"....

true....

but i must also point out my brothers ....

allahu akbar....

god is great...

simply put...he can do whatever he wants to do...especially to provide salvation for sinners...you, me,,,your mom, my mom...and so forth...

because one may think that it is a 'step down' by god manifesting into human form...does in NO WAy MEAN that god did not infact do it

christ even claimed it for himself...

john 8:58 as well as revelation 22:13....

that is why it is so very puzzling to me that the muslim...(whom i greatly respect for their submission) completely disregards these words that their prophet...(and my GOd) the christ said...

still...since the birth if islam....is unanswered

sukran and blessings to you all in the name of GOd

tawhid

tawhid wrote: i completely disagree.... conjecture? you mean...as in "guesswork" [webster's dictionary] if so...than i ask you...is the enjeels also guess work? the same enjeels that muhammed spoke of in sura 48:29? and numerous other sura chapters that proclaim the authenticity of gospels - as well as seeking the counsel of the gospels? i ask then...where are these gospels that christians have somehow...someway...intentionally or ignorantly misplaced or lost or mishandled?  where? and based on 'recomendations from councils 5 centuries after christ' - i may also ad that the holy spirit...the same one that happend on pentacost was also in the presence of the formulation of GOd's word (the NT) during the formation of the current gospels...whether it be the nkjv or niv or what have you... it is just funny...here is a muslim...that - while her prophet TELLS her to rely on the enjeels....ALSO with the same breath....proclaims the the very same gospels are not to be trusted...when her prophet nowhere claims that the enjeels are to be discredited...so what is it? can the gospels be trusted? or not? yes ? or no? if yes...why isnt there a muslim enjeel accepted all throughout the ummah as truly inspired word of god... and if no...you are simply arguing against your own religious tenets so that very same question must be answered to the muslim who believes muhammed was a prophet of god... he was told to recite....not write down....but recite what god had spoken to him.... but.... the quran ITSELF was not formulated until over 20 years AFTER muhammed died!!! and beforehand.....the koran was based on pure, unadulterated....audio/verbal recitation!!!! not pen/ink/and paper medium ....which one is more reliable...imperfect human thought process of recitation...which is open to error...or written document? so you answer me? is conjecture a very high possibility in the kuran as well...seeing as how their scriptures were not written in the form it is now right away - but 20+ years later...and not even by muhammed?  YES tawhid

Yes, Quran do inform us about the book given to Prophet Isaa (Jesus) and is known as Injeel. That is the reason Christians are known part of "Ahl-i-Kitab". However, weather the book remain preserved or lost is the responsiblity of the followers of Jesus. But we do know that certianly its would not be the gospel according to Luke, Mark, John or Matthew, niether it would be in the form of epistles from Paul to some nation and niether it would be the so called 'work of holy spirit' on the members of council 5 centuries after Jesus. If you ask me where could this Injeel might have gone, then my response would be to speculate (conjecture) that it might be close to what is now known to the Christian scholars as the "Q" gospel, but ofcourse it is merely my own conjecture. To read more about this "Q" gospel, kindly refer to

Also interesting to note is that despite the ubiquity of present day gospels in christian world, there are certain christian communities still existing in the todays era that don't believe in the divinship of Jesus. They don't believe him to be any part of God niether son nor part of father etc. I don't know how are they still maintaining their beliefs but they do exist. Probably, it is for them or the people like them that don't associate partners with God that Quran [5:69] refers  

Lo! those who believe, and those who are Jews, and Sabaeans, and Christians - Whosoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right - there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.

In the end, and agreeing to DavidC's comments also, I would say that Quran doesn't compel (different path) but recommends (true path) to Ahl-i-Kitab to accept Islam. Given the fact in the state of gospel that now exists, the original message has been obliterated in them, there is all the more reason for them to join Islam. May God of Isaa bless us all. Cheers!

looks like my question isn't going to be answered here. Tawhid you obviously do not understand the nature of my question sad to say. We talk of God's humility yet the question remains how is Jesus both human and God?

Israfil wrote: looks like my question isn't going to be answered here. Tawhid you obviously do not understand the nature of my question sad to say. We talk of God's humility yet the question remains how is Jesus both human and God?

israfil...thank you for bringing this to my attention...

i do not have all the answers to this question...however...i will put my two cents into as well provide you with other sources on this matter...

but as of now - i am in class studying real estate...so now is not a good time....seeing as how it will take more of a theological approach at this question and requires a longer time to both give to you as well as having that givin info cogent - hehe in other words...i will answer...but it will take me longer than how long i am usually on the computer at a given time...

this is a challenging question...however...easily answerable to one who is open to that answer...

a similar question that is equally hard for a muslim theologan to answer for the christian is...

 Say: "O People of the Book! Ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord" (5:71 AYA/68 MP). How can the Jew or Christian, stand fast by the Law and the Gospel, if the Law and the Gospel have been corrupted or abrogated? Again, the assumption of the Qur'an is that the scriptures that the Christians and Jews have is the reliable word of God.

and with this my dear friend israfil,,,will lead you into my comments of how God, the great "i am" of both the old testiment (exodus 3:13) and also the new testiment (john 8:58) was both human (a sinless- THE only sinless human) and god at the same time...

ponder on your quranic verse...and the question the the christian poses for it....then with that question...will come both (inchallah) an openness to God's holy scriptures of the NT and will reveal...(to those truly seeking it and to those guided by God's spirit) will truly and genuinely be given wisdom...

however if the question is posed as a challenge without a true objectivity - then a spiritual guard is already up due to the lack of given- objective - {possible] validity of the NT

shees i wrote alot...but i NEED to go now...

blessings to you israfil...and ponder on that in red as i will try to answer "how god can be both human and god at the same time" very soon...actually that will be my next project when i come here

tawhid

Was Jesus god?

Well let me remove some of the misconceptions amongst my Christian and Muslim brothers. The most common phrases we hear are : 

Can God do everything?  Answer is Yes.

Can God create anything? Answer is Yes.  

Can God destroy everything?  Answer is Yes.

Can God create a thing which he can�t destroy??? And we are trapped.

A very simple answer I will give to all these phrases is that refer to Quran. And I found that nowhere it is written that God can do everything. Its written that God do what all he intends to do. So:

God can�t do everything. He does not do un-Godly acts. Like God can�t tell lie. God can�t throw me out of His domain (every place is His domain). He can�t do injustice and he can�t take human form.

Well certainly if He intends He can create the heaviest stone and when He intends He can destroy it. But performing any un-Godly act will not qualify for Him as God. Like if He takes Human form He ceases to be a God, he is a human then because it is not an attribute of God. If He lies, He is not a God then because its none of the attributes of God. If he do injustice He ceases to be a God because God�s attribute is Just.

Therefore God do not and can not and do not perform un-Godly acts. These are against His dignity and greatness and we have to be very careful attributing certain actions towards Him.

No where in Bible it is written that Jesus was God and those who have translated him as son, they have done a great error and blunder. See for yourself what Bible says in :

Isaiah Ch-45, verses 21-23, �Tell ye, and bring them near, yea, let them take counsel together, who has declared this from ancient time? Who has told this from that time? Have not I the Lord? And there is no God else beside Me O Look unto me and be ye saved all the ends of the earth, and there is none else O I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness and shall not return That unto me every knee shall bow and every tongue shall swear O�. 

Also see Isaiah Ch-45, verse 5, 6, 14 and 18. Timothy 1 Ch-1 verse 17, Exodus Ch 20 verse 3, �Thou shalt have no other gods beside me� and Exodus Ch 23, verse 24-25.

 Moreover, what John Ch 3, verse 16 and 17 say is completely blasphemous. What is the meaning of word begotten? And we all know in which meaning it is used.

While the verse 30 in John Ch 10 is read out of context. Please read verses 24 - 29 where it becomes clear that Jesus said to Jews that as they do not follow his instructions therefore they are not amongst his sheep (followers) and his sheep follow him and listen to him. And God gave him these instructions and whatever he tells to people are in fact instructions of God. To follow Jesus means to follow God and there he uses this verse that �I and my father are one� verse 30.

Well if it has to be taken in literal meaning that he actually meant that he and his father are actually one in physical terms then it should be taken in literal terms that he was not speaking to Jews but to batch of sheep.

Quran define attributes of God in shortest possible and absolute clear terms in Sura Ikhlas 112, �Say: He, Allah, is One (and alone) o Allah is (eternal) on Whom all are dependant o He begets not, nor is He begotten o And there is nothing like Himo�

The word used for Allah (God) in Arabic is �Aahad� which means alone and one. Like I as a personality am one, but for me in Arabic �Wahid� will be used, this means one but still in composite numbers (other humans). But �Aahad� means one and alone who has nothing and no one alike. So this solves the problem. Therefore Jesus was a great Messenger of Allah like other prophets and neither was he son or god himself.             

Regarding Quran was compiled 20 years after Muhammad�s (MPBUH) death, who told you that? Indeed it is news for all those Muslims who have read Islamic History. Well sir Quran was compiled almost two years before the death of Prophet Muhammad. The sequence of Surahs or chapters was told by the Prophet and it was placed in the room of Lady Aysha (wife of Holy Prophet and daughter of first caliph Abu-Bakar). This happened in 9^th year after Hijrat or Exodus from Makkah. The Quran was in proper written form but on palm leaves, piece of cloths etc in a bag. Prophet died in 11^th year after exodus and there were some problems in the Islamic state outskirts. In one battle War of Yamama some 70 hufaz (who had memorized Quran by heart) died in one day so there was a need to re-write Quran on one medium in one binding.

During the first few years of the first Caliph Quran was written on one medium, binded and placed with Lady Aysha. Later once Islam was spreading in the times of Caliph Usman (the 3^rd Caliph) it was felt to fix the writing font of Quran as there were reports that at some places people are reciting Quran with changed spellings. Like if you are in United States, you may find wrong spellings in British English so you will correct them. But once French would pronounce it he will change the pronunciation as well. In Arabic this would amount to changing the meaning altogether. So to avoid the pronunciation error by non-Arabs its Arabic text was re-fixed and all other copies with other fonts/text were destroyed. So the Quran of to days is the ditto copy of the Quran revealed on Muhammad 1400 years ago.       

Shams Zaman Pakistan [email protected]

As'Salaamu Alaikum

In no way I'm defending Christian theology when it comes to the divinity of Christ, but Shams certain things you have mentioned can be refuted and even be contradictory see the following:

Can God do everything?  Answer is Yes.

Can God create anything? Answer is Yes.  

Can God destroy everything?  Answer is Yes.

Can God create a thing which he can�t destroy??? And we are trapped.

Let us take the first three examples:

Can God do anything? Yes

Can God create anything? Yes

Can God destroy everything? Yes

Since using this for the sake of God's attributes I will comment on this. In the first example since God can do everything (or anything) then its quite possible for God create a rock that he cannot lift, no? The argument however is illogical since we have no true concept of God's power except through doctrinal understanding and through the sciences of nature. With these limitations we can only infur what God can do. Since God is God believers will not use "can't" in respect with God's attributes since we believe God can do anything, fallibility in this would result in God being fallible.

Since its possible for God to create anything then its quite possible for God to create a human form for himself and to ascend from a higher state into a lower state as Christian theology implies. It's also possible for God to become limited in time (since we believe he can do anything, and since anything implies no limit we can also see the paradox in God being able to limit his limitedless being in time).

Its very possible for God to destroy everything since the first example implying God's limitless ability to do anything thus encompassing the ability to annihilate everything. But in conclusion arguing the subject of how Jesus is God and using this example does not do the Islamic understanding of God any justice. This only leaves what you said open for those who are opposite of Islamic belief to criticize what you said. In this the Christian theologian has won....

That is the exact reason why I used those very examples brother...Hence the saying:

In no way I'm defending Christian theology when it comes to the divinity of Christ, but Shams certain things you have mentioned can be refuted and even be contradictory

If you wish to have a better example to clarify what you're saying then that would be appropriate

I think you guys are daft to try to use mere mans wimpy words and logic to blaspheme god. as blaspheme it is to say 'god can't...' and 'god won't...'.

Consider the paradox  :"monosyllabic is not monosyllabic". This has nothing to do with god but has everything to do with the paucity and poverty of mans languages and concepts. The flaw is not in god but in man.

F

Dear Brothers

These arguments aere for those who use stupid questions to prove that God can come in the form of Human. Certailly God has power over all things and He do whatever He intends to do. But God is the Greatest and His attributes are so pure and sacred that to do anything which is against it is out of Question. He is Just and He is above all. So it is against His greatness and grace that He takes Human form or give preferance one Human Race over all other regardless of thier deeds. As most Christians in the first and Jews in the later case think. He is beyond our preception and vision and it is unlike of Him to act as normal Human beings and it is blasphemous to ask such silly questions in Respect of God. That's why I gave example of the three questions which are extremely stupid and are extensively used by Christian missionerys in Pakistan atleast. So I clarified that nowhere Quran says that God do everything. He do whatever He intends to do and He do what is among of His attributes. He will never take human form, He can not and will never do unjustice and he will never do which is an un-Godly act.

Shams Zaman   Pakistan  

DavidC,

Would you blame God for a faulty human perception (mostly through satanic inferences) or would you believe in Him to be "All Just" and let those unclear phenomenas as they are; rather than speculating about them. Again the same principle "follow what is known and leave out what is based on conjectures" would answer all such questions. Rest Allah knows the best. 

DavidC,

As for your first theme, it reminded me of some verses of Quran 18:55-59, they are:

"[55] And what is there to keep back men from believing, now that guidance has come to them, nor from praying for forgiveness from their Lord, but that (they ask that) the ways of the ancients be repeated with them, or the Wrath be brought to them face to face?

[56] We only send the Messengers to give glad tidings and to give warnings: but the Unbelievers dispute with vain argument, in order therewith to weaken the Truth, and they treat My Signs as a jest, as also the fact that they are warned!

[57] And who doth more wrong than one who is reminded of the Signs of his Lord, but turns away from them, forgetting the (deeds) which his hands have sent forth? Verily We have set veils over their hearts lest they should understand this, and over their ears, deafness. If thou callest them to guidance, even then will they never accept guidance.

[58] But your Lord is Most Forgiving, Full of Mercy. If He were to call them (at once) to account for what they have earned, then surely He would have hastened their Punishment: but they have their appointed time, beyond which they will find no refuge.

[59] Such were the populations We destroyed when they committed iniquities; but We fixed an appointed time for their destruction. 

Also, there is a very interesting story in Quran starting at 18:65 about prophet Musa's encounter with a stranger (probably prophet Khizar) that gives some indication of how there are many different ways of looking at the same thing depending upon how much one knows about them. Hopefully you enjoy it.

Regarding your 2nd theme, for muslims death should never be negative experience as its just one step forward to meet God. That is to say when this exam is over (i.e. life on earth), hopefully one might have earned enough "grade" to qualify for the heaven rathter than the hell.