As a matter of historical records - the slavery once practiced in the Muslim world cannot be compared to the form it had assumed -- for instance  - in the Judo-Christian world. While both Judaism and Christianity allowed slavery - Islamic legislation subjected slave-owners to a set of precise obligations - first among which was the slave's right to life, for, according to a Hadith: Whoever kills his slave shall be killed by us. In consequence, the murder of a slave was punished like that of a free man.

Contrary to this - During Judaism and Christianity, slavery was at its highest peak in the Middle East.  People were enslaved and they and their children were inherited and passed down to generations forever. This tradition came from Leviticus 25:44-46 in the Bible's Old Testament, and further continued in the New Testament in 1 Timothy 6:1, 1 Peter 2:18, and Colossians 3:22.

Islam has tolerated slavery but has never approved of it, and that all its teachings and prescriptions in this regard lead to its alleviation as far as possible in the short term, and, in the longer term, conduce to its progressive suppression. To abolish it would have been impossible in a world in which it was generally practiced by all the states which bordered on the new Muslim empire, and in which the idea of challenging the principle itself had not occurred to anyone. It was the custom to enslave prisoners of war - when these were not simply massacred -- and the Islamic state would have put itself at a grave disadvantage vis-a-vis its enemies had it not reciprocated to some extent. By guaranteeing them humane treatment, and various possibilities of subsequently releasing themselves, it ensured that a good number of combatants in the opposing armies preferred captivity at the hands of Muslims to death on the field of battle.

The idea that entered Western consciousness several centuries ago, that black people are less than human, made possible the Atlantic slave trade, during which perhaps 40 million people died � Howard Zinn in �Declaration of Independence�.

In conclusion - Among all the religions it was only Islam that attacked the very foundations of this evil.

but at the same time they oppress infedels in shariah law for those who do not CONvert (not revert) to islam

jizya...for one

dude...your theology is totally wrong when it comes to slavery....the very same thing can be said about your islam as you are claiming about christianity and judaism...

here it is....in ALL 3 .... it was permitted...

i think all faiths can come into agreement that it was wrong...and all 3 can come to agreement that it was practiced by EACH

so please...the same blood is on your hands as well...

but it is christ and his truth as the Son of God (more than a mere prophet) who forgave sins and said..."the truth shall set you free"

and "no longer are you slaves to sin"

only in the christian enjeels can you find such a love...

allahu akbar...praises to the christ

tawhid

but at the same time they oppress infedels in shariah law for those who do not CONvert (not revert) to islam - jizya...for one

How much this �jizya� you think the Jews and Christians were paying, while owning most of land under Muslim rule in Spain?

dude...your theology is totally wrong when it comes to slavery....the very same thing can be said about your islam as you are claiming about christianity and judaism...

Can you prove that Rabbi?

here it is....in ALL 3 .... it was permitted...

Now some �anti-slavery verses from Talmud or OT, please!

Although Allah and the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) condemned slavery, Arabs participated heavily in the trans-Atlantic slave trade.

Islam is not always the same as the practice of the people who profess it.

The practice of Allah, has always been to manifest HIS Wisdom to the slaves and the oppressed, and not to those in power. Allah comes to crush those in power, using slaves, i.e... Musa. Slavery is most hated by Allah and the Righteous, and is never justified. Allah never created man to be a bearer of burden for other lazy, shiftless, greedy people who want everyone else to work for their benefit.

I believe that one can quickly tell a devil, who will use Allah's book to justify slavery. And one should never allow it to go unchecked.

blond wrote: The practice of Allah, has always been to manifest HIS Wisdom to the slaves and the oppressed, and not to those in power.

wow, and I thought God was for all people.

Angel wrote: blond wrote: The practice of Allah, has always been to manifest HIS Wisdom to the slaves and the oppressed, and not to those in power. wow, and I thought God was for all people.

Allah is not for all people. According to scripture, He is for those who submit to His will. He will fill Hell with the rest.

And it is also mentions that God guides those whom he wills.

Blond, you saying that Allah is not for all people is like saying that Islam is not for all people. And that Allah is only for/in Islam.

And also within islam you are saying that slaves and the oppressed is only for Allah not for other muslims.

I understand that 'muslim' means one who submits to Allah's will/slave to Allah's will but I feel that is not what you are implying here. One does not have to be oppressed either.

I believe that one can quickly tell a devil, who will use Allah's book to justify slavery. And one should never allow it to go unchecked

Correction dear. Rev. Pat Robertson has already told me who would be the Devil (Anti-Christ). According to the 'holy evangelist' the Anti-Christ' would be a Jew.

And for your information, those (Zionists) Jews don't believe in Allah - But Theodor Herzl as their Lord.

Angel wrote: ...wow, and I thought God was for all people.

Correct - and that would include Hitler too, right?

No wonder that Christian believed that by killing 300,000 Jews in Germany and Polan - was [b[doing his Lord's job!

Rehmat wrote: Angel wrote: ...wow, and I thought God was for all people. Correct - and that would include Hitler too, right?

Yes.

No wonder that Christian believed that by killing 300,000 Jews in Germany and Polan - was [b[doing his Lord's job!

Where did I say that killing is the Lord's job ??

Angel wrote: Yes.(Hitler is included)

Thanks for 'twisting your tongue

Where did I say that killing is the Lord's job

Maybe, it's time for you to have little fresh-air. Read my post without stop breathing - then you will find that 'the Christian' was meant to be Hitler and not some Jew.

Rehmat, can please in future do not put words in my quote, as in edit it to put them in. It wrong do so! All I said is "yes" no other words!

And also I knew who you meant, but my question still stands, where did I say killing is the Lord's job ?

Rehmat wrote: Angel wrote: ...wow, and I thought God was for all people. Correct - and that would include Hitler too, right? No wonder that Christian believed that by killing 300,000 Jews in Germany and Polan - was [b[doing his Lord's job!

you are a sad person....hahahaha

embarrassing for you....

yah i guess killing 300,000 jews were god's will right?

give me a break...

you are embarrassing your ummah with the spit you throw....

moderator....look into rehmat....he is hurting your faith and those who may be marginally interested in converting to islam

and he also "quoted" me but also put his own words in the quote - which makes MY quote NO LONGER my quote...but rehmat's quote disquised as MY quote...he lies, slanders, and is hostile for fun....not for dialogue...

tawhid

Angel wrote: And it is also mentions that God guides those whom he wills. Blond, you saying that Allah is not for all people is like saying that Islam is not for all people. And that Allah is only for/in Islam. And also within islam you are saying that slaves and the oppressed is only for Allah not for other muslims. I understand that 'muslim' means one who submits to Allah's will/slave to Allah's will but I feel that is not what you are implying here. One does not have to be oppressed either.

It is unfortunate that you do not understand me.

I will clarify.

I believe that, although it is possible for everyone to submit, as Allah has opened the way, all people will not submit. I believe that the Siratul-Mustaqim is a path that goes perpendicular; straight up to heaven, and straight down to hell. It just matters which way you choose to go. So, we ask Allah to guide us rightly on that path. Both ways are open for everyone.

According to the scriptures, Allah will not accept people who refuse to submit to His will. He intends to punish them with hell. Allah is no hippy, sissy punk, Who just let's everything go that the people want to do. Allah is Beneficent and Merciful, but He is also the Destroyer.

Lastly, Allah created Shaitan. Therefore Shaitan serves the purpose for which Allah created him.

blond wrote: Angel wrote: And it is also mentions that God guides those whom he wills. Blond, you saying that Allah is not for all people is like saying that Islam is not for all people. And that Allah is only for/in Islam. And also within islam you are saying that slaves and the oppressed is only for Allah not for other muslims. I understand that 'muslim' means one who submits to Allah's will/slave to Allah's will but I feel that is not what you are implying here. One does not have to be oppressed either. It is unfortunate that you do not understand me. I will clarify. I believe that, although it is possible for everyone to submit, as Allah has opened the way, all people will not submit. I believe that the Siratul-Mustaqim is a path that goes perpendicular; straight up to heaven, and straight down to hell. It just matters which way you choose to go. So, we ask Allah to guide us rightly of that path. Both ways are open for everyone. According to the scriptures, Allah will not accept people who refuse to submit to His will. He intends to punish them with hell. Allah is no hippy, sissy punk, Who just let's everything go that the people want to do. Allah is Beneficent and Merciful, but He is also the Destroyer. Lastly, Allah created Shaitan. Therefore Shaitan serves the purpose for which Allah created him.

good post

tawhid wrote: ...you are a sad person....hahahaha

Rabbi it was not nice to laugh at the death of 300,000 co-religionist Jews.

Rehmat wrote: tawhid wrote: ...you are a sad person....hahahaha Rabbi it was not nice to laugh at the death of 300,000 co-religionist Jews.

why do you call me a jew? i will say it slower for you one more time little one

i

am

a

christian

i am a christian...i asked Christ to come into my heart...to forgive my sins...there is not longer a wall between the jew and gentile...i am saved by grace...by accepting the son of man into my heart which was lead by his holy spirit

a christian

a christian

understand?

you should stop hating on jews ... what you reap you will surely sew

tawhid

tawhid wrote: Rehmat wrote: tawhid wrote: ...you are a sad person....hahahaha Rabbi it was not nice to laugh at the death of 300,000 co-religionist Jews.   why do you call me a jew? i will say it slower for you one more time little one i am a christian i am a christian...i asked Christ to come into my heart...to forgive my sins...there is not longer a wall between the jew and gentile...i am saved by grace...by accepting the son of man into my heart which was lead by his holy spirit a christian a christian understand? you should stop hating on jews ... what you reap you will surely sew tawhid

You are correct to be offended. And to affect true reconciliation, the offender must be shown his error and offered a chance to repent. Then you must forgive him. Then move on.

tawhid wrote: ...why do you call me a jew?

Well don't blame me. Blame the Bible, because every time I open it - I see the same holy verse:

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lust of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is not truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar and the father of it. - then answered the Jews - John 8:44

blond wrote: Angel wrote: And it is also mentions that God guides those whom he wills. Blond, you saying that Allah is not for all people is like saying that Islam is not for all people. And that Allah is only for/in Islam. And also within islam you are saying that slaves and the oppressed is only for Allah not for other muslims. I understand that 'muslim' means one who submits to Allah's will/slave to Allah's will but I feel that is not what you are implying here. One does not have to be oppressed either. It is unfortunate that you do not understand me.

Sorry

I will clarify.

Thanks

I believe that, although it is possible for everyone to submit, as Allah has opened the way, all people will not submit. I believe that the Siratul-Mustaqim is a path that goes perpendicular; straight up to heaven, and straight down to hell. It just matters which way you choose to go. So, we ask Allah to guide us rightly on that path. Both ways are open for everyone.

Ok but then you cannot group people, as you say that the slaves and oppressed people will go to heaven and not hell and those in power will not go to heaven and go straight to hell. If the perpendicular is up - heaven and down - hell, then it is still open to slaves and oppressed people to go to hell, Do you think all oppressed and slaves are on the right path? don't they have the availablity to get off the path? the same goes for those in power not all/will be bad and go to hell, if they are on the right path then they will go to heaven.

So what you mentioned in the other post does not stand with this view.

I believe that, although it is possible for everyone to submit, as Allah has opened the way, all people will not submit.

That is true but that is not what you implied, you said that God is not for all people, and I said God is for all people. And whether God has opened the way for them or not, God is still for everyone not just the righteous and faithful.

Angel wrote: That is true but that is not what you implied, you said that God is not for all people, and I said God is for all people. And whether God has opened the way for them or not, God is still for everyone not just the righteous and faithful.

After reading the Quran, if you believe Allah is for everyone, despite what they do, you are in error (an error is an intentional deviation from what you know is correct).

I was very clear in what I stated.

Perhaps you should try fasting so that you can clean your heart and see clearer.

I am not here to make you believe. My duty is only a clear representation. You can take it or leave it, it is immaterial with me.

29. Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and those with him are firm of heart against the disbelievers, compassionate among themselves. Thou seest them bowing down, prostrating themselves, seeking Allah�s grace and pleasure. Their marks are on their faces in consequence of prostration. That is their description in the Torah -- and their description in the Gospel -- like seed-produce that puts forth its sprout, then strengthens it, so it becomes stout and stands firmly on its stem, delighting the sowers that He may enrage the disbelievers on account of them. Allah has promised such of them as believe and do good, forgiveness and a great reward.