The Best of Deceivers or Planners?
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Category: Religion - Islam
Forum Name: Interfaith Dialogue
Forum Description: It is for Interfaith dialogue, where Muslims discuss with non-Muslims. We encourge that dialogue takes place in a cordial atmosphere on various topics including religious tolerance.
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Topic: The Best of Deceivers or Planners?
Posted By: Saved
Subject: The Best of Deceivers or Planners?
Date Posted: 07 November 2016 at 11:25pm
| In the Arabic Quran, Allah states the unbelievers plot, plan, and scheme, but Allah is the best of deceivers or is it planners? Does anyone know? |
Replies:
Posted By: syed_z
Date Posted: 25 November 2016 at 9:18pm
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http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=3&verse=54#%283:54:1%29"> The Word in Arabic is Makr which can be translated as 'schemed, planned, plotted, devised etc. English is a very limited language as compared to classical Arabic which is immensely deep. The English words for Makr may be very few as compared to more meanings that can be derived from this same word. This is something the linguists can understand better. Nevertheless the Quran has been made easier by the translators for the people of other languages to understand. The basic meaning of each word is sufficient to understand the meaning of the words in a particular Quranic verse. Sahih International: And the disbelievers planned, but Allah planned. And Allah is the best of planners. Pickthall: And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers. Yusuf Ali: And (the unbelievers) plotted and planned, and Allah too planned, and the best of planners is Allah. Shakir: And they planned and Allah (also) planned, and Allah is the best of planners. Muhammad Sarwar: The unbelievers plotted and God planned, but God is a much better planner; Mohsin Khan: And they (disbelievers among the Jews) plotted [to kill 'Iesa (Jesus) ], and Allah planned too. And Allah is the Best of the planners. Arberry: And they devised, and God devised, and God is the best of devisers. Allah (swt) failed the scheming of the disbelievers among the Jews who tried to kill Jesus, son of Mary (alaihi Salaam) by raising him up. Allah failed their schemes: 4:156-159 and because they disbelieved and uttered a terrible slander against Mary, 157and said, �We have killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the Messenger of God.� (They did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, though it was made to appear like that to them; those that disagreed about him are full of doubt, with no knowledge to follow, only supposition: they certainly did not kill him�� God raised him up to Himself. God is almighty and wise. And there is none of the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), but must believe in him ['Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), as only a Messenger of Allah and a human being], before his ['Iesa (Jesus) or a Jew's or a Christian's] death (at the time of the appearance of the angel of death). And on the Day of Resurrection, he ['Iesa (Jesus)] will be a witness against them.
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Posted By: airmano
Date Posted: 27 November 2016 at 9:20am
Syed_Z
Airmano ------------- The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter") |
The christians have to believe in him as the Prophet and not a son of God. If they fail to do so before their deaths then Jesus himself will bear witness against them on the day of judgement.Posted By: NABA
Date Posted: 29 November 2016 at 4:29am
| Jesus Christ(pbuh) always preached oneness of God,in Bible who Christians claim to believe and follow,Jesus Christ(pbuh)told people to believe in prophet Muhammad Saw pbuh and he will say what is told to him by Allah,we know through prophet Muhammad Saw(pbuh),Allah gave Quran.in Quran we receive a true definition of God-Allah is one he is eternal he is neither born nor give birth there is nothing like him. |
Posted By: Saved
Date Posted: 29 November 2016 at 2:52pm
If you mean the verse about the Spirit of Truth that guides us into all truth, forget it. That was not referring to any prophets; that was referring to The Spirit of God. Muhammad wasn't a spirit being; so, common sense should tell us Jesus wasn't speaking of him. Besides, the Spirit of Truth continues to lead us. Muhammad has been long dead. So how can it be referring to him? The only prophets Jesus warned us of is false prophets and many of them would come after Jesus Matthew 24. Christians never said or believe that God was born or has a son that he sired; these are misconceptions you have about the gospel as all Muslims do. We believe God is one and Jesus is His Word; You believe God is one and Muhammad is his messenger. Christians don't believe in the three Allah implies; so, I don't blame you for having misconceptions. I don't understand why we should believe Muhammad is a messenger because Gabriel delivered the messages to Muhammad from the Allah of Islam. Gabriel was the messenger; in fact, angel means messenger. I also don't understand how he can be our prophet when he never heard directly from Allah. What makes one a prophet is them hearing from God directly. Besides, didn't Allah tell Muhammad through Gabriel that if you have doubts as to your prophet-hood to ask the People of the Book - that is us!!! |
Posted By: Saved
Date Posted: 29 November 2016 at 5:15pm
Posted By: syed_z
Date Posted: 29 November 2016 at 6:58pm
Bearing witness against their false beliefs does not mean they will be sent to the hellfire. It's better for you to ponder over the words 1st before coming to conclusion. It is only God, The Just The Most Merciful who decides who deserves punishment and who should be forgiven. 5:116-118 When God asked Jesus, son of Mary "Did you tell men to consider you and your mother as their gods besides God?" he replied, "Glory be to you! How could I say what I have no right to say? Had I ever said it, You would have certainly known about it. You know what is in my soul, but I do not know what is in Yours. It is You who has absolute knowledge of the unseen. "I did not tell them anything except what You commanded me to tell them. I told them that they must worship God who is everyone's Lord. I watched them as long as I was among them until You raised me to Yourself and You Yourself had also watched over them; You are Omnipresent. You may punish Your servants or forgive them for You are Majestic and Wise." |
Posted By: Saved
Date Posted: 29 November 2016 at 11:54pm
We didn't make up the phrase "son of God." God called Jesus His son. Your argument is with God and not Christianity
Allah also said "they do disbelieve who say Allah is the third of three." Allah didn't appear to know that to Christianity the third person of the trinity is the Holy Spirit and not Allah or the father |
Posted By: airmano
Date Posted: 30 November 2016 at 1:33pm
syed_z
Now read below what you have written yourself. Doesn't this sound like an open menace ?
Airmano ------------- The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter") |
Posted By: syed_z
Date Posted: 30 November 2016 at 9:20pm
Airmano, That is not an open menace because I quoted 5:118 which says "You may punish Your servants or forgive them for You are Majestic and Wise." Decision to forgive or punish belongs to God, the Most Wise The Most Forgiving, not you or me or Jesus, son of Mary (alaihi Salaam). As for your survey, let me tell you that if I was to go and do a survey amongst Christians or Jews or with people of any religious denomination as to what they think will happen to all others in the hereafter then I'm pretty sure the majority would respond the same. Do you know why? Because Quran says: 6:116-117 If you obeyed most of those on earth, they would lead you away from the path of God. They follow nothing but speculation; they are merely guessing. Your Lord knows best who strays from His path and who is rightly guided. All Muslims don't know their scriptures well. All they know is that if any one is not a Muslim then they are Kafirs (reject the truth) and if they are Kafirs then they will go to the hellfire in the hereafter for their Kufr (rejection) because Quran is explicit on that. But all Muslims don't understand the message of the Quran as it should be. What you should have done is not gone to a walking Muslim on the street, you should have gone to a scholar and asked him. Let me tell you fact what Islam teaches us. Any one who does Kufr (Rejects the truth) knowingly and willingly and if he dies on that Kufr (Rejection) only he will be punished. But anyone who knows and understand the truth and still does Kufr (rejects the truth) but repents before his death then he will not be punished. He in fact will go to paradise. Any one who does Kufr without knowing and dies will also be forgiven because he did not know and will only be questioned about what he knew. God does not punish till He has made things clear. Now who dies on Kufr and who does not, regardless of whichever religious denomination he belongs to, Muslims have no right to pass judgment on each individual because the knowledge of Unseen is with God and He will decide best for each. The Prophet s described the disbelievers in the sound hadith in Al-Bukhari as the �denizens of the Fire,� saying, �Shall I not tell you who the denizens of the Fire are?� His companions replied, �Indeed, tell us.� He then said, �Every cruel, harsh, puffed up, miserly, arrogant one.� To claim that every Christian is a Disbeliever and is a denizen of the hell fire would actually be an ignorant statement to make. Unfortunately most Muslims are unaware of the what Islam teaches us about all non-Muslims around the world. |
Posted By: syed_z
Date Posted: 01 December 2016 at 7:18pm
To test those who followed Jesus son of Mary (alaihi Salaam) and those who opposed him i.e. the Elite and influential among the Jews. Why? Because this life is nothing but a test and the world is nothing but a testing ground. They both failed. The Jews were tested through his miraculous birth and they alleged false accusation on the Blessed Pure Virgin Maryam (alaihi Salaam) of adultery so they failed. The Christians were tested through son of Mary (alaihi Salaam's) miracles he performed and miraculous raising up when the disbelievers tried to kill him. The later followers of Jesus (alaihi Salaam) who came to develop a term called 'christian' started to believe that he was God's incarnate even though the earlier followers of Jesus son of Mary (alaihi Salaam) never had such beliefs as they knew his warnings: Gospel of Barnabas: Chapter 93 `I confess before heaven, and I call to witness everything that dwelleth upon the earth, that I am a stranger to all that ye have said; seeing that I am man, born of mortal woman, subject to the judgement of God, suffering the miseries of eating and sleeping, of cold and heat, like other men. Wherefore when God shall come to judge, my words like a sword shall pierce each one [ of them] that believe me to be more than man.' �Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:� (Acts: 2-22) God tests his creatures and reminds them in the following Verse of the Quran: (3:19) True Religion, in God�s eyes, is islam: [devotion to Him alone]. Those who were given the Scripture disagreed out of rivalry, only after they had been given knowledge��if anyone denies God�s revelations, God is swift to take account�� if they argue with you [Prophet], say, �I have devoted myselfd to God alone and so have my followers. The scriptures given to the Jews including the Gospel given to the Christians were handed for a test to see how they handle them. Unfortunately due to mutual fighting they miserably failed by distorting the words and the meanings. |
Posted By: syed_z
Date Posted: 01 December 2016 at 7:37pm
What do you mean by sired son? Did your belief just change within these few days? You were saying throughout this forum that you believe him to the 'Only Son of God'. "Israel is my son, even my firstborn" Exodus 4:22 "He shall build an house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom for ever. I will be his father, and he shall be my son": 2 Samuel 7:13-14 "Adam, which was the son of God" Luke 3:38 The above references to others as �Sons� clearly contradicts your concept of Jesus, son of Mary (alaihi Salaam), being the only son of God.
God makes it clear when He mentions the blasphemy of those who claim to be followers of Jesus son of Mary (alaihi Salaam) who when they say: 5:73 Those people who say that God is the third of three are defying [the truth]: there is only One God. God is not the 3rd in sequence. Whether you put him 1st or 2nd or 3rd, none can be joined with him and thats what Allah (swt) is making clear to you. 3 in one and all are the same? Whether you call it worshiping Jesus, worshiping Holy Spirit or whatever, all true worship and obedience is for Allah (swt) alone and not for the creation, just like Jesus son of Mary (alaihi Salaam) had taught in the Gospels. |
Posted By: Saved
Date Posted: 10 December 2016 at 2:01pm
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