Pair production in the quran
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Topic: Pair production in the quran
Posted By: Ralfarsy
Subject: Pair production in the quran
Date Posted: 16 July 2016 at 2:52am
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Assalamu alaykum,
As most of you know, the universe was created in a big bang. In the first moments of the big bang everything existed as energy. As the universe cooled the energy turned into particles of both matter and anti-matter. Every particle has its own anti-particle pair. For example, an electrons anti-particle is a positron. Whenever you create particles out of energy their anti-particle is also always created, this is called pair production. You can find more about antimatter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimatter - here . Anyways I thought this reminded me a lot of the ayah in the quran: �I have created everything in pairs, that you may remember.� (Soorah ath-Thaariyaat, 51: 49) This is normally interpreted in a biological sense where species contain genders of male and female. But I think this can also be interpreted in the particle physics sense with pair production. I would like to know your thoughts on the matter (excuse the pun). |
Replies:
Posted By: airmano
Date Posted: 29 July 2016 at 5:37am
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If everything(!) comes in pairs what is the (opposite) "partner" of gravitation ?
What is the "complement" of the number Pi ? Quite obviously here the Quran is wrong. Airmano ------------- The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter") |
Posted By: asep48garut60
Date Posted: 02 October 2016 at 9:23pm
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Wa�alaykumsalam,
Yes, according to the science that the universe began with the Big Bang, the theory was found after the 16th century, and Quran has informed it in the 6th century, Quran 21: 30. (not contradictory). Quran was revealed is to give glad tidings and guidance to mankind that it really came from God. In the past people didn't believe that at the core of this earth there is the fire because almost 2/3 of the Earth's surface is filled with water, but after research conducted by experts, it's now all people believe that there's the fire in the Earth's core. (Quran 52: 6) I believe that what have been written in the Quran it is true, there's nothing wrong. (Quran 15: 9) God says in 51: 49 is correct, only humans unfinished reveal all information about the verses relating to science in the Quran. Regards. |
Posted By: airmano
Date Posted: 03 October 2016 at 12:23pm
@Asep
According to http://corpus.quran.com/ - my sources 21:30 states: "Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, and We separated them and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe?" Where do you read the Big Bang into the (scientifically obviously useless) statement ? Why does it say "the heavens" and not "the heaven" ? ----------------------------------------------------------
First there is no fire in the earths core. (We usually associate fire with combustion, but there is no combustion in the earth core). Then: The only translation of 52:6 that talks about fire (see my link above), is: "And [by] the sea filled [with fire]". Parenthesis usually indicate an interpretation of the interpreter, so the Quran does probably not (explicitly) mention the fire. But even if it did - where is the link to the earth core ? --------------------------------------------------------- Sorry, but I can't help it: all these wishy-washy statements are exactly the state of knowledge you would expect from an illiterate man who lived 1400 years ago. -------------------------------------------------------
Airmano ------------- The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter") |
Yes, according to the science that the universe began with the Big Bang, the theory was found after the 16th century, and Quran has informed it in the 6th century, Quran 21: 30. (not contradictory).Posted By: Tim the plumber
Date Posted: 04 October 2016 at 7:17am
I think you are out of order here. If I say everything in the universe was created in the big bang I am being guilty of the same sort of understandable slightly less than exact wording that is being used in the Koran. I mean everything. That is all matter. I also do not know that this is true. The ideas of dark matter and dark energy seem to have clashes with this idea that every single thing started 13.8 billion years ago. Again the Koran should not be put under the same scrutiny as a scientific paper. But it would be nice if it was put under the scrutiny that you would put a news paper under. |
Posted By: Tim the plumber
Date Posted: 04 October 2016 at 7:21am
Just to put my bit in... 1, The Big Bang theory was first though of in the 1920's. 2, Whilst the center of the earth is very hot there is no fire. No gas, no flame can exist there. It is thought that the center of the earth is a very very large crystal of iron. |
Posted By: asep48garut60
Date Posted: 04 October 2016 at 10:50pm
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Dear Airmano,
------------------------------------------------ Where do you read the Big Bang into the (scientifically obviously useless) statement ? ------------------------------------------------ In 1929, US astronomer Edwin Hubble to make observations and see distant galaxies and always moving away from us at high speed. He also saw the distance between galaxies increases every moment. Hubble's discovery showed that the universe is not static as we believed for a long time, but the move expands. This then raises an estimate that the universe began with a huge explosion in the past, called the Big Bang. God says in 52: 6 That means that in the beginning the heavens and the earth is the one sewn together and then they were separated, as we can see now, a separate earth with other planets, the stars, the heavens etc. Is this sense there is no similarity between science and the Word of God? Science is very important for human beings who want to prove the truth of God's words. -------------------------------------------------- Why does it say "the heavens" and not "the heaven" ? -------------------------------------------------- Yes, God will say "the heavens" because the earth and the heavens are in the universe, while "the heaven" is different from the universe, which is a place that is eternal forever, whereas universe will someday be destroyed. -------------------------------------------------- First there is no fire in the earths core. (We usually associate fire with combustion, but there is no combustion in the earth core). -------------------------------------------------- Do you ever look at the oil refinery where the fire come out of the funnel tower, if it's not from beneath of the earth surface? why does from the erupted mountain come out hot molten rock, if it's not because of the fire that burned the rocks from beneath of the earth surface? --------------------------------------------------- Sorry, but I can't help it: all these wishy-washy statements are exactly the state of knowledge you would expect from an illiterate man who lived 1400 years ago. -------------------------------------------------- So do you try to insinuate that the Quran is right just because it claims so ? -------------------------------------------------- Sorry, I do not wishy-washy even I am a person who likes science, so I can attest to the truths of the words of God. Regards. Asep |
Posted By: asep48garut60
Date Posted: 04 October 2016 at 11:49pm
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Dear Tim the plumber,
Thank you for your explanation. If indeed science says so, I accept your explanation in point 2, but what's mentioned in the Word of God that beneath the earth's surface there is the fire, is it also right? although it�s not coming from the central of the earth, because that verse only say in general (not in detail). Once again, thanks for your explanation. That's why for me that the science will be needed to explain the word of God which is a common form, and vice versa. Regards. Asep |
Posted By: airmano
Date Posted: 05 October 2016 at 12:31pm
I think we already had this discussion in the past. My answer to your comment is "yes and no". If the verse: �I have created everything in pairs, that you may remember.� (Soorah ath-Thaariyaat, 51: 49) is taken metaphorically I will not even raise an eyebrow. But if you look carefully at the contribution starting the topic you see that this verse is (ab-)used to pretend that the quran expressed unknown scientific knowledge - what is obviously nonsense. So again: If somebody gets deeply impressed by the Quran's poetry and "wisdom" (whatever that means) - no problem. But as soon as the Quran is used to poach in scientific territory it must abide to scientific scrutiny. May be I can suggest a compromise by suggesting a different wording like: "If taken literally this verse of the Quran is wrong". Could you agree on this wording ? Airmano ------------- The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses (Albert Einstein 1954, in his "Gods Letter") |
Posted By: Tim the plumber
Date Posted: 06 October 2016 at 11:36am
The idea that there is fire beneath the surface is from seeing volcanoes, where the liquid rock from say 30km deep has flowed up to the surface and this is extremely hot. Anything burnable droping in will burn imediately. The whole thing will look very similar to fire. There would have been no better words for it at the time. Also there are places where fire seems to come out of the ground. This is where natural gas naturally comes out of the ground and at some point it has been lit and thus continues to burn just like a gas hob on the cooker burns with the gas mixing with air and heat. Thirdly where coal is exposed or almost exposed this can ignite spontaneously and flame will pop up out of cracks as the coal rock shrinks under the earth as it burns away. If you go down reasonable deep, say 100m, there is no fire as such though. For fire you need oxygen to mix with a fuel and heat which makes a chemical reaction, changing the fuel and the oxygen, which makes more heat. So no fires away from the air. That said I am applying a definition to fire that is informed by science. Rock so hot it glows and has warmed the air it is in contact with so much that you cannot hold your hand over it makes the word fire the best one they would have for it. My take on it is that if you wish to read the Koran or any ancient script you have to understand that it is not at all like reading a scientific paper. There are things that are factually wrong in it. But it is not the same as a science paper. So the language is not exact. The tales in these ancient books are also often wrong. There has never been a world flood. If you want to find meaning in the Koran you must use it as a spiritual text and not cling to the facts it uses as these are very often wrong. |
Posted By: asep48garut60
Date Posted: 08 October 2016 at 12:11am
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Dear Tim the plumber,
Thanks for your explanation, I may be wrong in interpret the word "fire" in the Quran, because I just remembered that God Himself told me through His word that I have to pay attention to the verses that looks like a parable or have other meanings, and this verse may be one of them. Thank you. Regards, Asep |