Your advice, please
Printed From: IslamiCity.org
Category: General
Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Description: General Discussion
URL: https://www.islamicity.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3118
Printed Date: 24 April 2024 at 8:00am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Your advice, please
Posted By: A.J.
Subject: Your advice, please
Date Posted: 28 November 2005 at 10:02am
|
Peace be upon you I would be grateful if you would please take the time to offer me some advice�.. My query relates to the sects within Islam. I someone who is interested in becoming Muslim, however I am somewhat confused with the differentiation of the message been propagated, which has lead to my not knowing whom to trust. Hence my query is this, if I am not sure who is propagating the correct message, does it matter whom I support? Or should I stay impartial and not support anyone? I suppose this query has originated from the fact that, I live within a non-Muslim country with my parents, whom are not religious. They prevent me from fully incorporating the practice of Islam into my life, through such means as stopping me from offering the dawn prayer (i.e. I irritated them by waking them). I also struggle with the fact that I do not have the freedom to break the cycle of bad habits (some of which I inherited from my parents, habits that have been rubbing off on me since I was a child), and feel that this is partly due to my not been able to fully incorporate Islam into my life. If I am unable to currently be a practicing Muslim, is there anyway I may support Islam (I cannot give in charity because I am unemployed and poor), or should I simply carry on supporting the non-Muslim system (way of life)? Kind regards A.J. |
Replies:
Posted By: aishag88
Date Posted: 28 November 2005 at 12:12pm
|
salaam, In Islam the only time you are allowed to disobey your parents is when they disobey Islam. Don't give in so easy, Its amazing that you found Islam in your life like that. Alhumdilla, Thats beatiuful. But I am confused, Your questions is with the sects of Islam...and about your practing islam correct? I am Muslim, i not shia or sunni. I am just a Mulismah. Thats my view about the sect thing. Where you live in U.S and whats your age? Aisha |
Posted By: aishag88
Date Posted: 28 November 2005 at 12:14pm
|
I forgot to say. A lot of people have bad habits (prayers, fasting...) Ask Allah to help you, beg forgiveness to the sins you have done. Be strong. |
Posted By: rami
Date Posted: 29 November 2005 at 4:31am
|
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem Hi AJ You may like to learn the history of islam from this you will learn what orthodox Islam is. There are two main groups of Muslims in the world Sunni and Shia, Sunni Muslims comprise roughly 90% of all Muslims while Shia are about 5%. The difference between shia and sunni is one of politics which has led to diferences in religion also. they do not accept many of the prophets companions or even his wifes as being true muslims and becouse of this it has led to them to splitting away from the main body of muslims and calling them self shia. The title sunni was used for the majority of muslims to diferentiate them self from this new group after they started calling themselfs shia, mainstream Islam has alway been Sunni Islam. In Sunni Islam we have four http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/ahm/newmadhh.htm - schools of legal thought (this article speaks about the history of islams legal schools), they are very similar in about 75% of there rulings and differ only on fine points which were not spoken of clearly by our prophet. This difference is becouse of interpretation of the evidence not becouse one group rejects the source of the evidence while another accepts it, as is the case with the diference betwen the Shia and Sunni groups. Which is why we say Orthodox Islam is sunni islam while the shia are a sect which broke away from the majority becouse they do not accept hadith from the majority of the prophets companions only those they like. These Madhhabs (schools of legal thought) are what muslims have been following for almost the past 1400 years with out any change. There are other minority groups in Sunni islam some of these groups say you should not follow a madhhab or others say our understanding is better than this group or that group, but one thing should be considered these minority groups only arose very recently and have no real history going back to the time of the companions of the prophet. this article also clears up some issues and explains matters more clearly than i ever could. http://www.modernmuslima.com/madhhabs.htm - - Understanding Madhhabs: A Beginner's Guide and FAQ Islam was preserved by scholars teaching their students which they in turn taught there students and so on and on untill the present day, from this our scholars put in place something called a Ijazah system which is similar to a phd which is like a stamp of aproval from the scholar to his student saying i have taught this student and ensure his knowledge is sound and correct and give him permission to pass on knowledge to others. the http://www.islamic-awareness.org/ - Quran and Ahadith were preseved in the exact same manner by the exact same people, you will not find one group who preseved the Quran and Sunnah and another who are saying we know it best the majority of muslims have always followed the four madhhabs. this was also the case with different http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/reference/glossary/term.KHALIFAH.html - khalifah in Islam. the last Khalifah on earth was that of the Ottoman Khalifah which followed one of these madhhabs, prior to that you will find other khalifah followed another one of these four madhhabs, by this you can ensure that mainstream islam has always been adhering to this system of law and has not wavered from it. As i said it does not matter which of these schools of law you decide on as the scholars of each consider the other a valid opnion to take if you believe the evidence with one is stronger than the other in your view. ------------- Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness. |
Posted By: rami
Date Posted: 29 November 2005 at 5:02am
|
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem insha allah you find these of benefit also br, http://www.themodernreligion.com/basic/madhab/madhab-unity.html - - Unity Through Schools of Thoughts http://www.sunnipath.com/resources/Questions/qa00000919.aspx - - http://www.sunnipath.com/resources/Questions/qa00000919.aspx - Why Madhabs? Isn't It Like Christianity? http://www.sunnipath.com/resources/Questions/qa00000911.aspx - - What is the big deal about fiqh? Why all these details and stuff? Isn't it just too much? http://www.themodernreligion.com/basic/madhab/madhab-fatwa - - Shaykh Murabtal Haaj�s Fatwa on Following - One of the Four Accepted Madhhabs http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/reference/glossary.html - Glossary of Islamic Terms and Concepts------------- Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness. |
Posted By: kenski70
Date Posted: 29 November 2005 at 8:29am
|
In Islam the only time you are allowed to disobey your parents is when they disobey Islam. how does one disobey a religion they are not a part of? ------------- Sorry about that turn signal,I must have fallen asleep. |
Posted By: rami
Date Posted: 29 November 2005 at 8:43am
|
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem assalamu alaikum as a new muslim AJ i would advise you to do superogetory (meaning the non obligatory) acts of worship, which can be done with out any person knowing about it as they invovle reciting either the Quran or doing what we term dhikr (litraly rememberance) of one of the names of Allah, similar to a chant but it can be done in silence. this will help you greatly on a spiritual level. donating money is a form of worship also but what i mention above is far greater in the eyes of Allah as it has an effect on the heart and Allah says in the Quran he does not look at our outward action but what is in our hearts. If this interests you i could recommend something from the Quran or dhikr you may like to recite, and once you are more free insha allah you can take on a more active role if you wish. Kenski70 please do not turn this into a secular argument or derail the discussion, if you have nothing contructive to add or advice to give than please do not involve yourself. ------------- Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness. |
Posted By: A.J.
Date Posted: 29 November 2005 at 9:23am
|
Thank you for your time Aisha, I do need to be strong, and not give up on my practice, for in the little time I have experienced Islam I have learnt that within the Islamic prayer (and the process of maintaining it), there is the opportunity like no other to gain knowledge about unclean spirits (or bad jinn), as it is they whom try to prevent you from doing it, or indeed prevent you from gaining its benefit. I am fond of the below exert, and know that the Five Pillars of Islam are as good as any exorcism. The Gospel - Mark � Chapter 5 (1) And they came over unto the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gadarenes. (2) And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit, (3) Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains: (4) Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him. (5) And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones. (6) But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him, (7) And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not. (8) For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit. (9) And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many. (10) And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country. (11) Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding. (12) And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them. (13) And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand;) and were choked in the sea. (14) And they that fed the swine fled, and told it in the city, and in the country. And they went out to see what it was that was done. (15) And they come to Jesus, and see him that was possessed with the devil, and had the legion, sitting, and clothed, and in his right mind: and they were afraid. (16) And they that saw it told them how it befell to him that was possessed with the devil, and also concerning the swine. (17) And they began to pray him to depart out of their coasts. (18) And when he was come into the ship, he that had been possessed with the devil prayed him that he might be with him. (19) Howbeit Jesus suffered him not, but saith unto him, Go home to thy friends, and tell them how great things the Lord hath done for thee, and hath had compassion on thee. |
Posted By: A.J.
Date Posted: 29 November 2005 at 9:24am
|
Thank you for your time Rami, I kind of understand what you are saying Rami, but I sort of feel like I am been ushered into a specific �tribe�s� way of doing things. For example each Masjid in my hometown offers prayers at a different time, and it feels like they are each vying for the position of - �not having to change/compromise�, while little ole me - my qualities - have a lot of work to do. This kind of makes me feel like I don�t belong, because I have to join someone else�s tribe, this is in contrast to embracing a universally shared way of life. So I guess my question to you Rami is � It is the Scholars whom decide things such as prayer times, hence is it not they whom have created these separations? And is it not they whom need to lead the way in compromise? Or am I been stupid in not embracing any ole tribe? Kind regards AJ |
Posted By: Khadija1021
Date Posted: 29 November 2005 at 9:27am
|
Assalamu Alaikum A.J., MASHALLAH. I completely understand your position. But the way is not to regress...that is, don't pull away from Islam merely because you cannot do 100% of what you hear others say you should do. Since you do not live in a Muslim household, like me, I know it may be hard for you to meet all of the daily requirements. I look at my currently situation as like that of a Muslim who is traveling to non-Muslim community. In such cases, a Muslim is allowed to do some things differently, such as to pray sitting up or to shorten their prayers. They also do not have to fast. I'm not saying for you not to do those things if you can, but if it is not possible to do then you should do only to the limits of what you can because otherwise it will cause discord in your home and regardless of what anyone else says or thinks, being safe in your home is important. So, do what you can to the best limits of what you can do and Allah will know the intention in your heart. It is far better to do all that you can even if it is not perfect than to regress and do nothing. With respect to bad habits, since you don't say what they are, it is hard to give you any advice or guidance on that; however, I can say that unlearning bad habits is tough but if we are sincere in our prayers to Allah, He wil help us and guide us to do that which is right. And please don't think that just because someone was not born into a Muslim family that they will have bad habits will all Muslims have none. It would be lovely if all Muslims were as Allah commands them to be but that is something I believe we will only see if we are one of the blessed who are allowed to enter Paradise. Do your best, pray to Allah for forgiveness of your shortcomings and keep your eyes and your heart on what truly matters. May Allah bless you, guide you and keep you on His Straight Path. Ameen. Allah Hafiz PAZ, Khadija ------------- Say: 'My prayer and my rites, my living and my dying, are for Allah alone, the Lord of all the worlds. (Qur'an, 6:162) |
Posted By: rami
Date Posted: 29 November 2005 at 10:22am
|
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem I kind of understand what you are saying Rami, but I sort of feel like I am been ushered into a specific �tribe�s� way of doing things. For example each Masjid in my hometown offers prayers at a different time, and it feels like they are each vying for the position of - �not having to change/compromise�, while little ole me - my qualities - have a lot of work to do. I think a person should make a distinction between what is right Islam and what is wrong or rather establish the ideals then from there look at the reality on the ground. Doing this you are then able to judge right from wrong without having doubt. The reality in a multicultural scociety is that there are many diferent groups practacing difernt things and you get the impression there is no one right way or coherant system. Living in a muslim country you will see more unity in practice of the islamic faith rather than the diveristy you see in the west. You are right in your perception about muslims in the west they have formed these little tribes with each masjid as HQ for each nationality, so i dont recomend you so much join any of these groups. This may get a little confusing but the goups we are talking about at present are not the groups i was reffering to in my earlier post, your local masjids more than likely have nationalisitic issues which they must get past before you see real unity of islam. regarding different prayer times this is not the issue which you percieve it to be, both times are accptable in islam and niether are wrong. This is becouse both are based on the actions of rasul allah but the difference lies in establishing which method he used for calculating the time for prayer on a regular basis. All scholars agree that if our prophet did an action it can never be said to be haram unless it is specificly mentioned. In the time of our prophet they calculated the time of prayer by the length of the shadow in relation to an object, at the time of the asr and another prayer which i cant remember which at this point, one of our Great scholars said the shadow it should be 1 length of the object while another says it should be 1.5 or 2 times the length of the object both positions are based upon sound evidence and niether can be disprived so it is up to you to decide which evidence you agree with and has more benefit and follow it. In any case it would not be wrong for you to pray at the time of which ever masjid you are in even if you do not agree with it becouse both methods have there own sound evidence in the actions of our prophet. This kind of makes me feel like I don�t belong, because I have to join someone else�s tribe, this is in contrast to embracing a universally shared way of life. So I guess my question to you Rami is � It is the Scholars whom decide things such as prayer times, hence is it not they whom have created these separations? And is it not they whom need to lead the way in compromise? Or am I been stupid in not embracing any ole tribe? You have to difarentiate between your local shaykh and the scholars i am refering to. The legal system in islam was developed a long time ago and things such as prayer times have been established and practiced for 1400 years now with complete harmony between the diferent methods. The madhhabs are universal and not limited to any nationality or region of the world , you will find people from many diferent races following any one of these four madhhabs this isnt the problem. What you percieve as tribes is from the natinalisitic issues which muslims as a whole have had to face becouse of recent upheavals in there past and the distruction of the islamic state which was in reality one huge country stretching from north africa to china, known as the Ottoman Empire. I dont know how well you know you history. You local scholar does not make the prayer time he is more than likely following one of the accpted methods in which you can pray, but i guess you are simply using the prayer time as an example. In islam we have four schools of legal thought not one so in reality we have slightly different ways of doing some things, so for a muslim to ensure integrity and consistancy in there practice we choose one school and follow islam according to its rulings even though it is not wrong to on occasion follow the methods of the other, so when you mention a universally shared way of life it has always been in this context it is just the diversity of groups in the west that gives you the impression that this unity does not exist but as i said it is perfectly fine to pray at any one of these diferent times. I have probably given you to much information to fast, take your time and read what you can so you have a better grounding in what the ideal is. ------------- Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness. |
Posted By: aishag88
Date Posted: 29 November 2005 at 11:32am
|
Salaam Alikum AJ, You will face many challages in your life.I have been Muslim for 3 years, and I still face probelms with my famliy. Rami is right dhikr will help you, calm you. And you can do it anywhere and as many times as you like. There is a hadith (this is from my memory) : The Prophet (pbuh) said " The only thing the people of prardies will regret is not saying more dhikr..." I am missing something to that...I am sorry, I don't remember the book I heard it from. Anyone know it? May Allah help you, I will pray for you..
|
Posted By: A.J.
Date Posted: 30 November 2005 at 10:13am
|
Thank you again for your replies�.. Dear Rami, I am not sure you have understood the point I was trying to make with regards to prayer times�.. A more detailed example could be that of Isha Salah, if it becomes available to offer at 18:38 for example, some Masjid�s would offer congregational Salah at 19:00, some at 19:15, some at 19:30, some at 20:00, it seems the Imam�s make up their own times! `Uqbah bin `Amir (May Allah be pleased with him) said: One day the Messenger of Allah (PBUH) went out and asked Allah's forgiveness for the martyrs of the battle of Uhud after eight years. It seemed that by so doing, he bid farewell to the living and the dead. He then came back, rose to the pulpit and said, "I shall be your precursor; I am a witness for you (before Allah), and I will be present before you at the River (Haud Al-Kauthar). By Allah I can see with my own eyes the Haud from this place. I am not afraid that you will associate anything with Allah in worship after (my demise), but I apprehend that you will vie with one another for the life of the world.'' The narrator said: It was the last time that I saw the Messenger of Allah (PBUH). [Al-Bukhari and Muslim]. If you (as an Ummah) continue to remain arrogant like this, and vie with each other for the position of � �not having to change� � then how do you expect people to take you seriously when you are asking them to change their entire lives?! I feel like nothing more than a pawn in a game of - �we know best� - �our path is the correct one�! I have been told that I should keep quite as I have not sorted myself out yet, and now I would like to say the very same thing to you! If you as an Ummah can�t agree because of each scholar/Imam�s arrogance, then I think you should keep quite until you have agreed, and stop confusing us poor innocent people who embrace Islam for understanding and clarity. |
Posted By: rami
Date Posted: 01 December 2005 at 12:06am
|
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem Have you leanrt the Fiqh (Islamic law) behind the times of prayer and from this you are judging there is something wrong with there actions? Kindly point out to me the error of there actions acording to what islam defines as accptable times for salat. The hadith you quote although aplies to the state of muslims today does not apply to the times in which muslims should pray, your generalised points is why i assumed your argument of diferences in prayer times earlier was just an example of the things you percieve as being wrong. I dont know what muslims have been saying to you, many muslims are misguided and dont follow the religion the way our prophet taught it. This is why i advised that you learn the ideal ( or traditional Islam) and from there you would be in a position to see which muslims are acting according to the religion and which are just talking from themself. Just becouse a person may Quote hadith or Quran does not make what they say correct, they could be interprating matters for themself and completely contrary to scholarly understanding. ------------- Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness. |
Posted By: A.J.
Date Posted: 02 December 2005 at 8:04am
|
Rami stated: �Living in a muslim country you will see more unity in practice of the islamic faith rather than the diveristy you see in the west.� Yes, and why? Because each ruler, of each Muslim country leads the people according to their own interpretation of Islam, and not by a mutually agreed consensus across the Muslim Ummah. Rami stated: �Just becouse a person may Quote hadith or Quran does not make what they say correct, they could be interprating matters for themself and completely contrary to scholarly understanding.� Do the scholars have mutual consensus among themselves? And if they do, why is there so much division rooted in the rulers own-self? (ie nationality) Everyone knows that one of the devils tricks is to divide and conquer; after all he was the first being to introduce the sin of division, better known as � pride - (ie when he refused to obey Allah {SWT}, and bow to Adam {SAW}). If you look at the situation in Iraq, the devil has managed to divide and conquer; separating the country into practically three countries, just as the Ottoman Empire was divided before it. How long do you intend to let the devil get his way? Ibn Masood said: I heard a person reciting a (Quranic) verse in a certain way, and I had heard the Prophet reciting the same verse in a different way. So I took him to the Prophet and informed him of that but I noticed the sign of disapproval on his face, and then he said, "Both of you are correct, so don't differ, for the nations before you differed, so they were destroyed." [Sahih Al-Bukhari - Volume 4, Book 56, Number 682] Is it not apparent that Islam will not succeed - when it�s people are fighting amongst each other - in division? O you who believe! Fear Allah as He should be feared and die not except in a state of Islam. And hold fast all together by the rope which Allah (stretches out for you) and be not divided among yourselves; and remember with gratitude Allah's favour on you; for you were enemies and He joined your hearts in love so that by His grace you became brethren; and you were on the brink of the pit of fire and He saved you from it. Thus does Allah make his signs clear to you: that you may be guided. [Holy Qur�an, Surah 3 - Al �Imran: 102-3] People who do not advocate - unity of the Ummah - are those whom have chosen the life of this world, their own worldly prospects are more important (to them), than the true success in the Hereafter - achieved through unity in Islam. Pride is most evident within those who posses worldly power and wealth, it is they whom prevent unity by refusing to bow! Could you ever see King Abdullah of Jordan changing any of his ways, due to a pious Muslim advising him of a better way? |
Posted By: A.J.
Date Posted: 02 December 2005 at 8:31am
|
I only mentioned the difference in prayer times, as it represents a deeper division, sorry for deeming the everyday a good starting place for scholar�s to discuss and overcome those divisions. |
Posted By: A.J.
Date Posted: 02 December 2005 at 9:00am
|
Surah 4 - Nisaa When you have finished As-Salat (the prayer - congregational), remember Allah standing, sitting down, and lying down on your sides, but when you are free from danger, perform As-Salat (Iqamatas Salat). Verily, the prayer is enjoined on the believers at fixed hours. Fiqh-us-Sunnah, Volume 1: Prayer Volume 1, Page 84: The Time for the Afternoon Prayer ('Asr) Says an-Nawawi in his commentary on Sahih Muslim, "Our companions (the Shafiyyah) hold that the afternoon prayer time can be divided into five categories: the most virtuous time, the preferred time, the allowable time in which there is no disliked aspect, the allowable time that contains some aspect of dislike, and the time that is due to some excuse or necessity. The most virtuous time is at the beginning of the permissible time. The preferred time is until the shadow of an object is twice the length of the object itself. The permissible time without any aspect of dislike is from the time the sun becomes yellowish. The permissible time with some aspect of dislike is from the time the sun becomes yellowish until the setting of the sun. The time of excuse or necessity begins, in fact, at the time of the noon prayer for one who is to combine the noon and afternoon prayers, due to travelling or rain. If the afternoon prayer is made during any of those times, it has been fulfilled properly. If all of those times pass and the sun has set, then one must make up the prayer." |
Posted By: Khadija1021
Date Posted: 02 December 2005 at 9:26am
|
Assalamu Alaikum A.J., I think you are making a good point. Even if there is an acceptable range of time during which salat can be offered, why are those living in the same community doing so? Is it a control mechanism? If not, wouldn't it be better for the Ummah in that community if there was a since of unity? It truly doesn't matter the particular time (as long as it was Islamic-ly correct) they did salat back in their old communities because the truth of the matter is that they are living in a new place with others of the Ummah not from the same "old country" as they are so more effort should be made to create a pleasant atmosphere for the Ummah of that community to live in. We are Muslims of Islam, not members of this or that church as are the Christians. For what reason should the Ummah spread to new locations? For the sake of Allah and because that is the only justifiable reason to do so according to the Qur'an and Sunna, then there should a great deal of attention placed on the practice of calling others to Islam. How is that going to happen in a way that pleases Allah if there is division? If it is not pleasing to Allah, then how can it be successful? Allah Hafiz PAZ, Khadija
------------- Say: 'My prayer and my rites, my living and my dying, are for Allah alone, the Lord of all the worlds. (Qur'an, 6:162) |
Posted By: aishag88
Date Posted: 02 December 2005 at 11:48am
|
I agree, and there is a lot of that in my city too. Please excuse me, I am getting very sick, and i really don't have to enery to think or type much more |
, but i wanted to put in my "two-cents." 
Posted By: *Aabid*
Date Posted: 04 December 2005 at 9:44am
|
Wow!!! Ya�ll kinda knocked me sideways there�.. Will ya please allow me a couple of minutes to recover, I�m not used to anyone agreeing with me! Few, that�s better, heee heee. Thanks for all your comments, for you�ve helped give me that extra nudge along the way. I now feel at peace in my practice, and hence have changed my name to that of a Muslim. Sorry to all whom I have confused (in the past) with my name changing (I guess it was meant to be!), I now feel I�ve got the right name to go along with my faith & belief, Insha Allah. |
Posted By: rami
Date Posted: 04 December 2005 at 10:52pm
|
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem Yes, and why? Because each ruler, of each Muslim country leads the people according to their own interpretation of Islam, and not by a mutually agreed consensus across the Muslim Ummah. Yes your comment about the muslim rulkers is correct but who is arguing against that? The muslim leaders are not the ones responsible for Shariah law in Islam, they simply have the power and do not listen to what is right, they are corupt. If a scholar was to speak against them they would harrass him or have him killed. Do the scholars have mutual consensus among themselves? And if they do, why is there so much division rooted in the rulers own-self? (ie nationality) first seperate religious from secular issues. They have consensus on the four schools of thought ie Shafii, Hanafi, Maliki or Hanbali, that if you follow any one of these methodologies for deriving rulings from the Quran and Sunnah you are following right guidance. This is in refrence to religious matters. regarding secular matters they have almost no say and if you look at all muslim countries they are either getting over the effects of being rulled by a dictator for the past 100 years which was intalled by a forign power or they are still being rulled by a dictator. Everyone knows that one of the devils tricks is to divide and conquer; after all he was the first being to introduce the sin of division, better known as � pride - (ie when he refused to obey Allah {SWT}, and bow to Adam {SAW}). If you look at the situation in Iraq, the devil has managed to divide and conquer; separating the country into practically three countries, just as the Ottoman Empire was divided before it. Division is not a sin nor is it pride, Allah says in the Quran i created you as different nations. Your generalisation does not aplly to muslims, further the division you see today in the muslim world is a direct result of the west not the doing of muslims. please learn the history beffore comenting on it. How long do you intend to let the devil get his way? i sugest you control your self this question is phrased as if i or anyone else here actualy can wave a magic wand and change everything. Ibn Masood said: I heard a person reciting a (Quranic) verse in a certain way, and I had heard the Prophet reciting the same verse in a different way. So I took him to the Prophet and informed him of that but I noticed the sign of disapproval on his face, and then he said, "Both of you are correct, so don't differ, for the nations before you differed, so they were destroyed." [Sahih Al-Bukhari - Volume 4, Book 56, Number 682] do you actualy know what this hadith is refering to? it has nothing to do with what you are saying. Is it not apparent that Islam will not succeed - when it�s people are fighting amongst each other - in division? and who is saying otherwise, i sugest you change the word Islam for muslims, Allah's religion will succeed regardles of what humans do. People who do not advocate - unity of the Ummah - are those whom have chosen the life of this world, their own worldly prospects are more important (to them), than the true success in the Hereafter - achieved through unity in Islam. you are preaching to the converted as christians like to say. I noticed you Quoted Fiqh as Sunnah in another post, be advised this work is not an authoritative work in islam nor is it advised that you take your religion from it. It was a sincere attmept to merge the rulings of the madhhabs by one sheikh by combining what he felt where stronger rulings. In reality it contains many mistakes and to put it in analogy, it was like a high school physics teacher attempting to corect Albert Einstien on E = mc2 ------------- Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness. |
Posted By: Community
Date Posted: 06 December 2005 at 8:53am
|
6:159 As for those who divide their way(deen) and break up into sects, thou hast no part in them in the least: their affair is with Allah. He will in the end tell them the truth of all that they did.
|
Posted By: *Aabid*
Date Posted: 06 December 2005 at 9:05am
|
OK, Rami, I am sure you are aware of the hadith concerning Musa {SAW} when he declared � �'I am the most knowledgeable.' Allah censured him since he did not ascribe this knowledge to Him.� And the pursuing story�.. Hadith - Number 122, on the following page� http://www.sunnipath.com/Resources/PrintMedia/Hadith/H0002P0 003.aspx Please brother all I ask is for a little leeway, there are (other) outside influences observing these conversations, are they not? With regards to the schools of thought you mention, sorry but the words mean nothing to me personally (if you have a problem with that, then sorry). As far as I am concerned, if you are adhering to the five pillars of Islam, then for me, it becomes a question of exactly what La-ilaha-ill-Allah encompasses. If you have a problem that I carry out my own meditations on this matter, then again I am sorry you feel that way. Rami stated: �Division is not a sin nor is it pride, Allah says in the Quran i created you as different nations. Your generalisation does not aplly to muslims, further the division you see today in the muslim world is a direct result of the west not the doing of muslims. please learn the history beffore comenting on it.� As you have already admitted, the modern nations are built on falsehood. OK, it is all the fault of the West, and Muslim�s are totally innocent of craving the West�s technology. Brother whether you differ with me or not, the Ummah will unite under Iesa {SAW}, hence if you criticise me for advocating real consensus, then so be it. Rami stated: �i sugest you control your self this question is phrased as if i or anyone else here actualy can wave a magic wand and change everything.� See beginning of post Rami stated: �do you actualy know what this hadith is refering to? it has nothing to do with what you are saying.� If you are unable comprehend that when you perceive a phenomena you are able to recognise it even if the circumstances are different, then please do not project that upon me. Rami stated: and who is saying otherwise, i sugest you change the word Islam for muslims, Allah's religion will succeed regardles of what humans do. Will Islam ever be a success while it is in division? Or is it only a success after Iesa {SAW} has killed the dajjal, and the Ummah is united under one caliph? Rami stated: I noticed you Quoted Fiqh as Sunnah in another post, be advised this work is not an authoritative work in islam nor is it advised that you take your religion from it. It was a sincere attmept to merge the rulings of the madhhabs by one sheikh by combining what he felt where stronger rulings. And I agree with what he has said on this particular point, and I agree with his efforts to try and unite the madhhabs. If you wish to throw me out of �your fold of Islam� because of that, then fair enough. Rami stated: In reality it contains many mistakes and to put it in analogy, it was like a high school physics teacher attempting to corect Albert Einstien on E = mc2 And finally, thankfully my methods in discovering (by Allah�s leave) how gravity combines with the energy forces are different to that of modern science, probably one of the reasons I was able to discover what I have. However my foundations dictate that I must cross reference mine findings, and nothing I have read discounts those findings. So please by my guest, confirm you doubt me. |
Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 06 December 2005 at 5:06pm
|
Bismillah, The most important thing is our relationship to Allah, SWT. This can be strengthened or weakened in many ways. ISA, your faith grows, and all of us increase in faith and loyalty to Allah, SWT. ------------- Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will. |
Posted By: rami
Date Posted: 07 December 2005 at 12:16am
|
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem AJ or Abid since you are new here i will advise you, using multiple user names is not permisable on this forum read the forum guidline. I sugest you nominate one user account and stick to it, you only get three chances to follow the urles or you run the risk of being banned. I also suggest you tone down your language you will not get much more warning than this. Forum Moderator. ------------- Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness. |
Posted By: rami
Date Posted: 07 December 2005 at 1:27am
|
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem if people don't agree with your personal opinions you want to do none other than ruin people..... Show me word i have said where i am forcing people to follow anything i have said. This is nothing but your own personnel perception based on your current mentality. if you think your all that, then come and prove that i cannot expose Einstein, seen as though not one of you has even had the balls to do so!!!!! Analogy:
This is an advice take it or leave it it is up to you. Abid your link did not work so i dont know what you are reffering to there. Please brother all I ask is for a little leeway, there are (other) outside influences observing these conversations, are they not? i dont know what you mean by the last part? i also dont understand why you are asking for leeway i pretty much agreed with much of what you said regarding the state of the muslim Ummah read my last post again. With regards to the schools of thought you mention, sorry but the words mean nothing to me personally (if you have a problem with that, then sorry). As far as I am concerned, if you are adhering to the five pillars of Islam, then for me, it becomes a question of exactly what La-ilaha-ill-Allah encompasses. I was offering advice and atempting to explain the situation to you not force anything on you. I asked you to look into the matter further and make up your own mind. Islam has been around for 1400 years do you hounestly think our scholars have not become organised? or do people simply think they make up there own rulings as each scholar likes, this would be utter chaos, further who would check if the scholars opinion is correct or not there would no consistancy in rulings and no Legal system for any islamic state. This is what is ment by four diferent methodologies of how to derive rulings from the Quran and Sunnah it is to ensure the rulings of a scholar is ethical and in accord with the aims and intent of Allah not according to his own desire. The legal system of the Islamic state has always been one of the four madhhabs, i dont need to force this on any person it is a simple fact you can look up for your self in any islamic history book. If you have a problem that I carry out my own meditations on this matter, then again I am sorry you feel that way. please show me what gave you this impression from what i have said. OK, it is all the fault of the West, and Muslim�s are totally innocent of craving the West�s technology. Brother whether you differ with me or not, the Ummah will unite under Iesa {SAW}, hence if you criticise me for advocating real consensus, then so be it. it is simple to say that but another to actualy look it up. for the past 500 years the Imperial powers have been plotting the demise of the Islamic state and working towards it, they would send spies for various reasons to create hatred between muslims and even create false religions to split up the muslims. Two example are the Bahai of iran and the Ahmadiyah of india and pakistan there leaders were both british agents.  The section in arabia which was not under there control of the Ottoman Khalifah from the 17th centry onwards was taken over by the Saudi family from 1746. This was the last Islamic Khalifah to fall to the Imperial powers, the total islamic empire streched much more than that. all this was one country under one islamic administration. how can any person assume that a formal Islamic system had not been developed by this time in Muslim history? If you are unable comprehend that when you perceive a phenomena you are able to recognise it even if the circumstances are different, then please do not project that upon me. If you personaly want to take this hadith in isolation from all other Islamic knowledge that is your choice i am not forcing anything upon you, Muslims have a tradtional understanding of all ahadith which have been recorded so the proper understanding with in proper context is preserved and known. Will Islam ever be a success while it is in division? Or is it only a success after Iesa {SAW} has killed the dajjal, and the Ummah is united under one caliph? This is from the ahadith. muslims will unite and organise to a reasnoble extent so when they are ready as a people to unite together allah will send them the mahdi to unite over. the mahdi will need our support and he will not come until we are ready as a people to work together. And I agree with what he has said on this particular point, and I agree with his efforts to try and unite the madhhabs. If you wish to throw me out of �your fold of Islam� because of that, then fair enough. It is recomended that the prayer be prayed as early as possible but it is not an obligation, i dont know of anyone who has ever said that it is nor does it say that in fiqh as sunnah. the permisable time to pray any prayer with the exception of Maghrib and Fajir is from the time of its beginning untill the next prayer begins. Factor in that there are a number of ways to calculate the time for prayer all based on the sunnah of rasul allah ( so you can not simply dismiss any) and you will begin to understand why there are different times to pray the same prayer. This has been the same from the beggining of islam and is not example of sectarian split or something blameworthy to fuss over. If the prayer in the masjid are being delayed for no real reason then certainly you are correct in objecting. take your this school at that school, and you can shove it where the sun don't shine. everyone has access (if they wish) to the same words, and i am sick of people trying to take away my relationship with Allah. and all in the name of control!!!!!!! Your relationship with Allah is yours no one ever sugested otherwise, how you practice the obligatory in islam is defined and not a matter for anyone to make up there own Shariah laws. How will you deal with issues such as Aqeedah, the haram and halal, the personnel Obligatory matters or the communal obligatory matters, Inheritance, zakaat, Fasting, pilgramige, Trade and Business, marriage, Divorce, Prayer and Purification. do you intend to come up with your own rulings on each one? Each person follows what they wish there is no compulsion in Islam but these things are for us to learn and understand as Allah and his prophet commanded. Bismillah, The most important thing is our
relationship to Allah, SWT. This can be strengthened or weakened in
many ways. ISA, your faith grows, and all of us increase in faith and
loyalty to Allah, SWT. Ameen ------------- Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness. |
Posted By: truth
Date Posted: 07 December 2005 at 6:38am
|
Surah 2 � Baqarah, Verse 213 Mankind were one community and Allah sent Prophets with glad tidings and warnings, and with them He sent the Scripture in truth to judge between people in matters wherein they differed. And only those to whom (the Scripture) was given differed concerning it after clear proofs had come unto them through hatred, one to another. Then Allah by His Leave guided those who believed to the truth of that wherein they differed. And Allah guides whom He wills to a Straight Path. Rami stated: �Or do people simply think they make up there own rulings as each scholar likes, this would be utter chaos, further who would check if the scholars opinion is correct or not there would no consistancy in rulings and no Legal system for any islamic state. This is what is ment by four diferent methodologies of how to derive rulings from the Quran and Sunnah it is to ensure the rulings of a scholar is ethical and in accord with the aims and intent of Allah not according to his own desire.� Fair enough, I still don�t know how � four - fits into � one � And you mention �utter chaos�, that�s exactly what I feel like is happening when you tell me - there is a consensus, that there is four different consensuses! Well agree with me or not, if there was a consensus upon one consensus, there is clarity! "There shall not cease to remain a single group from my community upon the Truth, victorious; they are unharmed by those who abandon them and those who oppose them. They will remain (in my community and in such a state) until they fight the liar (i.e. the Anti-Christ (Dajjal)." [Reported in Sahih Muslim] "Verily those before you from among the People of the Book split into seventy-two sects and verily this religion . . . " " . . . this Ummah will split into seventy-three sects: seventy-two will be in the Fire and one in Paradise and that is the Jamaa'ah." [Reported by Abu Daawood - Sahih] "And this Ummah will divide into seventy-three sects all of which except one will go to Hell and they (i.e. the Saved Sect) are those who are upon what I and My Companions are upon (i.e. those who follow My Way and the Way of my Companions.)" [Reported by at-Tirmidhee - Hasan] I am no longer going to waste my time defending (the rest of) my comments from you, as it is obvious I have nothing in common with the Muslim�s I have met, you don�t comprehend me, and I don�t comprehend you, so what�s the point trying! Although as a final response to you I would like to mention the fact that, I receive letters every month threatening me with court action and/or the sending of bailiffs to my home (or should I say my parents home), due to some debts that I incurred a few years ago. Hence when you threaten me with �the risk of been banned� from an internet forum, I think it is hilarious, and I suggest you take your pathetic threat and shove it were the sun don�t shine, or alternatively carry it out, because I get the feeling it would be one of the best things that could ever happen to me!!! |
Posted By: truth
Date Posted: 07 December 2005 at 8:52am
|
If you will allow me, I will share my contemplations on the four methodologies that have been mentioned�.. The only instance in which four methodologies can exist is in the following scenario: The Prophet�s (peace and blessings be upon them) were granted wisdom superior to that of their disciples, hence a scenario may exist where Allah {In His Wisdom} separated the disciples so that they could each concentrate on (and hence preserve) a specific aspect/method of their Prophet�s teaching. This would have been necessary (to preserve the completeness of the message) as it is impossible for an individual to attain a state (of closeness to Allah {SWT}) equal to or superior than that of their Messenger. To incorporate four methodologies into a unified and clear message, there must be a consensus amongst all four parties on each issue that arises, consensus based upon the soundest (ie closest to) example of the Prophet {SAW}. And even then this would only work if those whom found themselves in opposition to the outcome, accepted that their methodology was incorrect on this occasion, and henceforth with a humble heart embraced the correct methodology. If I may, I would like to ask a question based upon the above Since the emergence of the four methodologies that have been mentioned, have they a) Moved further apart from each other? b) Remained at the same distance from each other? c) Moved closer to each other? For surely if the four have been genuine in the manner I have tried to portray, the only outcome that could exist is the merger of the four based upon consensus!? Finally I wish to say, I want to be humble, merely someone learning�.. so I hope you follow the traditional scholar's, you will see that their hearts are humble, Insha Allah. |
Posted By: truth
Date Posted: 07 December 2005 at 9:00am
|
and peace be upon you as well shamil maybe Allah {SWT} will place you in a difficult postion sometime in your life, and maybe it may turn out to be a blessing in disguise! have your world my friend, it will be taken away from you at some stage, i already have nothing in the world, i choose the eternal |
Posted By: truth
Date Posted: 07 December 2005 at 12:04pm
|
I am sorry it continues to be so difficult for me to remain amongst you, if you want it your way you got it -i'm a down & out easy to abuse! The Gospel - John |
Posted By: truth
Date Posted: 07 December 2005 at 1:28pm
|
A Zen abbot went dressed in rags to the door of a rich man and was turned away with an empty bowl. So he returned in his formal robe of office and was invited in and served a sumptuous meal. Removing his robe and folding it, he placed it on front of the feast and departed with the words, "This meal is not for me; it is for the robe." Zen story |
Posted By: truth
Date Posted: 07 December 2005 at 4:33pm
|
Rami stated: If you personaly want to take this hadith in isolation from all other Islamic knowledge that is your choice i am not forcing anything upon you, Muslims have a tradtional understanding of all ahadith which have been recorded so the proper understanding with in proper context is preserved and known. Thank you Rami, for amid all the chaos, I do have a clearer picture of what is expected of me as a Muslim revert, and what is happening with regards to the state of the Ummah. So as a �layperson� it is not advisable to quote any-old-how from the Qur�an and Ahadith, as Rami has stated, that is best left to the Scholar�s whom have a traditional understanding of them. I am also now aware that the religious leaders have no real say in secular matters, so a person has little choice but to support secular agendas when seeking to earn a living. I hope this might ease your perplexities, although I hope you are careful not to take from me my personality, for I have seen those who worry something of old might slip out casually, if you want to be my voice, from me nothing flows you are my personality. |
Posted By: abandoned
Date Posted: 08 December 2005 at 4:39am
|
Slaves of oppression! They deny you and keep you in poverty, Because they want all the luxuries for themselves However they expect you to act with dignity To listen and obey despite been offered no help So now I am not a person, rather an empty shell Incapable of making decisions, incapable of feeling well |
Posted By: Community
Date Posted: 08 December 2005 at 5:32am
|
abandoned wrote:Posted By: Community
Date Posted: 08 December 2005 at 5:36am
|
7:17 "Then will I come to them from before them and behind them, from their right and their left: And You will find not find most of them thankful. [Koran, The high situated place, Al a'raaf]
|
Posted By: abandoned
Date Posted: 08 December 2005 at 5:51am
|
To those who deny the Resurrection I have no place in a world that oppresseth and hateth me Osama bin Laden is the only Muslim I ever trusted entirely And so it is for his cause I would give up my life with certainty! The rich deny the meeting with their Lord They also deny they can be out plotted by a Higher Force |
Posted By: abandoned
Date Posted: 08 December 2005 at 5:57am
|
So it is not enough for me to be educated in something that every scientist in the entire world is trying to discover!? I have my education!!!!! Can�t you get it into your thick skull that I am not been allowed to have any sort of life because they want the only say!!!!!!! Hence why I would gladly blow myself up in your face!!! |
Posted By: abandoned
Date Posted: 08 December 2005 at 6:56am
|
But then again, (if you hear this) I feel you should show mercy upon those hostages, and forgive them - let them go. You have seen Muslim�s have no mercy for me; they are content looking after their own! But you see it eases their heart when you act in an aggressive manner, for it opens up for them the excuse that you where always a loser. I know how hard they make it for us just to act in a polite manner; they have the world & ease therein, and don�t understand others dilemmas. Surah 42 - Ash -Shura 39. And those who, when an oppressive wrong is done to them, they take revenge. 40. The recompense for an evil is an evil like thereof, but whoever forgives and makes reconciliation, his reward is due from All�h. Verily, He likes not the Z�lim�n (oppressors, polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.). 41. And indeed whosoever takes revenge after he has suffered wrong, for such there is no way (of blame) against them. 42. The way (of blame) is only against those who oppress men and wrongly rebel in the earth, for such there will be a painful torment. 43. And verily, whosoever shows patience and forgives that would truly be from the things recommended by All�h. |
Posted By: abandoned
Date Posted: 08 December 2005 at 7:04am
|
thank you for those at this forum whom have shown some mercy..... and to the rest i am not sorry for bursting your worldly bubble, when you want to avoid the fact that others are forced to struggle. go and tell yourself i am a loser and have brought on my own struggle, i know in reality you are selfish. |
Posted By: Community
Date Posted: 08 December 2005 at 7:12am
|
What forbids you from having faith in Allah and doing a mending work ? don't you know that had mankind been one nation He would have given the ungrateful(kuffar) roofs of gold and doors of silver? this worldly life is the only thing they wish, why try to deny them even that? again what forbids you from doing a mending work? Understand that all the power is to Allah the sent one and the faithful, this has never changed but it is you who fails to see the true victory. As for Osama, you trusted a man who is calm, who lured people with destructive anger into Afghanistan gave them some old weapons and some cheap ammunition and sent them into the barren fields to be flattened by the steel of the US military. Anger only leads to destruction and loss and it is a result of the ungratefulness which Shaitaan instills into people as to make them do terrible things. If you wish to blow up right in my face, then let me hug you first for doing me a favor of taking me out of this place. Infijaar means explosion, fujjaar is one who transgresses all limits ,see the connection? fear Allah so that you may prosper. Truely man is ungrateful to his Lord, and he himself testifies to this.(ungratefulness) [quran] |
Posted By: Community
Date Posted: 08 December 2005 at 7:22am
| And i agree with you they should let those people go, a true muslim shows strength and not resort to the ways of the ignorant by taking hostages and appearing on TV with masks on with demands. Allah has kept the faithful strong, but it is kufr(ungratefulness) that makes people blind. |
Posted By: Community
Date Posted: 08 December 2005 at 7:27am
|
Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 08 December 2005 at 9:57am
|
Bismillah, Both of you need to stop being so violent! Every life is precious, even yours. Take care of yourselves. Take a walk, play sports, give to the community and get over your depression. ------------- Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will. |
Posted By: Community
Date Posted: 08 December 2005 at 10:45am
|
lol |
Posted By: Osama
Date Posted: 08 December 2005 at 12:23pm
|
I will fight oppression as long as it remains Only then will depression no longer remain If you wish to accept oppression that is your game To you is your way, for me is mine! To herjihad Have I ever interfered with you in any way? Then why is it that you nag at me? Only Allah knows my way! |
Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 08 December 2005 at 1:46pm
|
Bismillah, Telling a woman she is nagging at you doesn't engender good feelings. LOL! Who are you? You change your name too often for me to identify you in any consecutive, meaningful way. Anyone who talks about committing wild, aggressive, violent acts interferes with the peace of the Umma of Prophet Muhammad, pbuh. Oh, and btw, I have fought oppression more than you ever will. ------------- Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will. |
Posted By: Osama
Date Posted: 09 December 2005 at 9:06am
|
Surah 18 - Al-Kahf (The Cave) 32. And put forward to them the example of two men; unto one of them We had given two gardens of grapes, and We had surrounded both with date-palms; and had put between them green crops (cultivated fields etc.). 33. Each of those two gardens brought forth its produce, and failed not in the least therein, and We caused a river to gush forth in the midst of them. 34. And he had property (or fruit) and he said to his companion, in the course of mutual talk: I am more than you in wealth and stronger in respect of men." 35. And he went into his garden while in a state (of pride and disbelief) unjust to himself. He said: "I think not that this will ever perish. 36. "And I think not the Hour will ever come, and if indeed I am brought back to my Lord, (on the Day of Resurrection), I surely shall find better than this when I return to Him." 37. His companion said to him, during the talk with him: "Do you disbelieve in Him Who created you out of dust (i.e. your father Adam), then out of Nutfah (mixed semen drops of male and female discharge), then fashioned you into a man? 38. "But as for my part (I believe) that He is Allah, my Lord and none shall I associate as partner with my Lord. 39. It was better for you to say, when you entered your garden: 'That which Allah wills (will come to pass)! There is no power but with Allah '. If you see me less than you in wealth, and children. 40. "It may be that my Lord will give me something better than your garden, and will send on it Husban (torment, bolt, etc.) from the sky, then it will be a slippery earth. 41. "Or the water thereof (of the gardens) becomes deep-sunken (underground) so that you will never be able to seek it." 42. So his fruits were encircled (with ruin). And he remained clapping his hands with sorrow over what he had spent upon it, while it was all destroyed on its trellises, he could only say: "Would I had ascribed no partners to my Lord!" 43. And he had no group of men to help him against Allah, nor could he defend or save himself. 44. There (on the Day of Resurrection), Al-Walayah (the protection, power, authority and kingdom) will be for Allah (Alone), the True God. He (Allah) is the Best for reward and the Best for the final end. (La ilaha ill-Allah none has the right to be worshipped but Allah). |
Posted By: Osama
Date Posted: 09 December 2005 at 9:27am
|
peace be upon you herjihad herjihad stated: "Oh, and btw, I have fought oppression more than you ever will." OK, but please excuse me if i don't wish to be of those professing to know the unseen, heee heee! Narrated Said bin Jubair: I said to Ibn Abbas, "Nauf Al-Bukah claims that Moses, the companion of Al-Khadir was not Moses (the prophet) of the children of Israel, but some other Moses." Ibn 'Abbas said, "Allah's enemy (i.e. Nauf) has told a lie. Ubai bin Ka'b told us that the Prophet said, 'Once Moses stood up and addressed Bani Israel. He was asked who was the most learned man amongst the people. He said, 'I.' Allah admonished him as he did not attribute absolute knowledge to Him (Allah). So, Allah said to him, 'Yes, at the junction of the two seas there is a Slave of Mine who is more learned than you.' Moses said, 'O my Lord! How can I meet him?' Allah said, 'Take a fish and put it in a large basket and you will find him at the place where you will lose the fish.' Moses took a fish and put it in a basket and proceeded along with his (servant) boy, Yusha 'bin Nun, till they reached the rock where they laid their heads (i.e. lay down). Moses slept, and the fish, moving out of the basket, fell into the sea. It took its way into the sea (straight) as in a tunnel. Allah stopped the flow of water over the fish and it became like an arch (the Prophet pointed out this arch with his hands). They travelled the rest of the night, and the next day Moses said to his boy (servant), 'Give us our food, for indeed, we have suffered much fatigue in this journey of ours.' Moses did not feel tired till he crossed that place which Allah had ordered him to seek after. His boy (servant) said to him, 'Do you know that when we were sitting near that rock, I forgot the fish, and none but Satan caused me to forget to tell (you) about it, and it took its course into the sea in an amazing way?.' So there was a path for the fish and that astonished them. Moses said, 'That was what we were seeking after.' So, both of them retraced their footsteps till they reached the rock. There they saw a man Lying covered with a garment. Moses greeted him and he replied saying, 'How do people greet each other in your land?' Moses said, 'I am Moses.' The man asked, 'Moses of Bani Israel?' Moses said, 'Yes, I have come to you so that you may teach me from those things which Allah has taught you.' He said, 'O Moses! I have some of the Knowledge of Allah which Allah has taught me, and which you do not know, while you have some of the Knowledge of Allah which Allah has taught you and which I do not know.' Moses asked, 'May I follow you?' He said, 'But you will not be able to remain patient with me for how can you be patient about things which you will not be able to understand?' (Moses said, 'You will find me, if Allah so will, truly patient, and I will not disobey you in aught.') So, both of them set out walking along the sea-shore, a boat passed by them and they asked the crew of the boat to take them on board. The crew recognized Al-Khadir and so they took them on board without fare. When they were on board the boat, a sparrow came and stood on the edge of the boat and dipped its beak once or twice into the sea. Al-Khadir said to Moses, 'O Moses! My knowledge and your knowledge have not decreased Allah's Knowledge except as much as this sparrow has decreased the water of the sea with its beak.' Then suddenly Al-Khadir took an adze and plucked a plank, and Moses did not notice it till he had plucked a plank with the adze. Moses said to him, 'What have you done? They took us on board charging us nothing; yet you I have intentionally made a hole in their boat so as to drown its passengers. Verily, you have done a dreadful thing.' Al-Khadir replied, 'Did I not tell you that you would not be able to remain patient with me?' Moses replied, 'Do not blame me for what I have forgotten, and do not be hard upon me for my fault.' So the first excuse of Moses was that he had forgotten. When they had left the sea, they passed by a boy playing with other boys. Al-Khadir took hold of the boys head and plucked it with his hand like this. (Sufyan, the sub narrator pointed with his fingertips as if he was plucking some fruit.) Moses said to him, "Have you killed an innocent person who has not killed any person? You have really done a horrible thing." Al-Khadir said, "Did I not tell you that you could not remain patient with me?' Moses said "If I ask you about anything after this, don't accompany me. You have received an excuse from me.' Then both of them went on till they came to some people of a village, and they asked its inhabitant for wood but they refused to entertain them as guests. Then they saw therein a wall which was just going to collapse (and Al Khadir repaired it just by touching it with his hands). (Sufyan, the sub-narrator, pointed with his hands, illustrating how Al-Khadir passed his hands over the wall upwards.) Moses said, "These are the people whom we have called on, but they neither gave us food, nor entertained us as guests, yet you have repaired their wall. If you had wished, you could have taken wages for it." Al-Khadir said, "This is the parting between you and me, and I shall tell you the explanation of those things on which you could not remain patient." The Prophet added, "We wished that Moses could have remained patient by virtue of which Allah might have told us more about their story. (Sufyan the sub-narrator said that the Prophet said, "May Allah bestow His Mercy on Moses! If he had remained patient, we would have been told further about their case.") [Sahih Al-Bukhari � Volume 4, Book 55 (Book of Knowledge), Number 613] |
Posted By: Osama
Date Posted: 09 December 2005 at 9:50am
|
Ubai bin Ka'b told us that the Prophet said, 'Once Moses stood up and addressed Bani Israel. He was asked who was the most learned man amongst the people. He said, 'I.� Allah admonished him, as he did not attribute absolute knowledge to Him (Allah). With regards to the above passage�.. The practice of idol worship within science is commonplace, Newtonian laws of gravity replaced by Einstein�s general relativity. E = mc2 may tell you something about energy, but their theories are censured, because they denied Allah�s sovereignty. La-ilaha-ill-Allah Mahammad-ur-Rasulullah |
Posted By: Osama
Date Posted: 10 December 2005 at 4:58am
|
Exalted is He to whom �belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is on the earth, and all that is between them, and all that is under the soil.� [20:6],� There is no power but with Allah� [18:39]. I feel sad that in our time together you wished to concentrate upon mine weaknesses, while neglecting to have the scope to see how confused I have been as a result of your numerous messages. I now feel happy to have taken back myself, and now wish to avoid been ridiculed for been myself. |
Posted By: Khadija1021
Date Posted: 10 December 2005 at 11:55am
|
Rami, how can you say this? The very first division in Islam happen shortly after the death of the Prophet, what does that have to do with the west? And division of nations is not the same as division in the Ummah. Although it is a fact that He created us as different nations, He gave us the Qur�an as a means to unit all of humankind. If all Muslims obeyed the Qur�an and did not live in disharmony with Allah or each other, it would have been impossible for outsiders to divide and conquer them. I am not taking away from the actions of those outside of the Ummah in their attempts to conquer it in order to fulfill their own agenda. However, pointing the finger at others doesn�t solve the problems that we currently see and feel in the Ummah. If you prove to me that the Ummah lived in harmony prior to the invasion of the �west�, I will retract everything I have said. However, I highly doubt you can. You, too, should go back and read the history of the Ummah. But be sure to start with the Prophet�s (pbuh) death and not with the invasion of the �west.� Actually, start before his death and see how much work he did to until the Ummah.
I cannot make any comment about "Everyone who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe - a spirit vastly superior to that of man�� [Letter to a child who asked if scientist pray, "I cannot believe that God would choose to play dice with the universe." [pg. 56, Mayer] "Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." [pg. 153, Calaprice, Quotable Einstein] Einstein�s stumbling block in faith is that he let the established �religions� of So, as you can see Osama, you are wrong in believing that Einstein did not credit Allah with the Universal Laws that gave rise to his theory of relativity. In fact, it is clear that he believed if there was no such thing as God who created universal laws, then we could not develop our theories in the first place since the universe (if it existed at all) would simply be total chaos. Einstein puts God in His proper place�before all else�the Creator of Allah things�The Sustainer of existence. On a different note, Osama, please explain to me how you went from being �A.J.� a person interesting in becoming a Muslim and wanting some advice regarding problems which arise due to divisions (sects) in Islam to being someone who is not only a �well educated Muslim� but one who touts a love for Osama bin Laden as the only Muslim worthy to trust entirely? Talk about division. By saying that �it is for his [Osama bin Laden�s] cause I would give up my life with certainty!� implies that you have placed Osaman bin Laden above Allah. You go as far as to say, �I would gladly blow myself up your face.� It is clear by the very ayats that you quote that it is better to forgive those who wrong us. The recompense for an evil is an evil like thereof, but whoever forgives and makes reconciliation, his reward is due from All�h. Verily, He likes not the Z�lim�n (oppressors, polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.). (Sura 42, Ayat 40) Why would Allah say this to us? I truly believe if we do like acts for what is done to us, it does something to our souls. Look at their souls for doing those very things in the first place. Do you see how black their souls are? Of course you do, it is obvious you do. Sure we are not to blame for doing likewise to them (as you pointed out in Sura 42, Ayat 41); however, there are consequences for all of our actions and Allah is warning us of those consequences. Allah gives signs and wisdom for those who truly want to see. And verily, whosoever shows patience and forgives that would truly be from the things recommended by All�h. (Sura 42, Ayat 43) Allah does not want us to risk having the same kind of souls that those who oppress us have. We should be patient and know that this world is a place of testing and that our true life will be in If you resort to blowing yourself up in someone�s face, you risk a grave situation. If you harm an innocent person, if you destroy dwellings or crops, herds or even a data palm tree, you surely have gone away from the way set by Allah and have crossed over to the way of those who oppress you�the Z�lim�n. Allah says we are not to blame if we choose to seek revenge but be very careful what He meant by that. There are strict guidelines for taking revenge if we go that route. We may not be blameful for deciding to take revenge but we are blameworthy for the means by with me chose to do so and the results if it goes beyond the boundaries of what Allah ordains for us. Osama bin Laden doesn�t make up the rules of war even in the 21st century. No man does, only Allah has that right. You are right in saying �They also deny they can be out plotted by a Higher Force�; however, that higher force is Allah, not Osama bin Laden or any other human here on earth.
What is the painful torment which Allah refers to in the ayat? For you or someone else to blow them up? No, it is what awaits them after this life just as those who live on Allah�s Straight Path are promised something as well�that is, a place in Paradise. Don�t get me wrong. I�m not saying not to fight oppression. But there are far better ways to fight oppress than to deviate from the ways Allah set down for us in the Qur�an. Deviating from Allah�s ways is simply another form of division. Truly it cannot be good for the Ummah. You say you are fighting against division; however, after reading you evolution (through posting under the guise of multiple names), I simply see you making the same mistake you accuse others of making. Division is division; even if it is served on a plate you call �unity� and oppression by any other name is still oppression. Just as Allah said there is no compulsion in Islam, we cannot force the Ummah into unity. That will only come about as governments and scholars begin to allow the Ummah in their communities to experience Islam in its true nature, a nature which is uninhibited by human greed and desire for power and control. I know of only one Muslim (pbuh) who had the ability to lead the Ummah in the pure way Allah commanded it to be lead. No man can achieve his greatness because he was ordained by Allah. No one in the Ummah has the right to place themselves at the same level with the Prophet (pbhu). Our job is to live as good Muslims and to spread the Ummah, not by force, but by example. The Prophet (pbuh) had his duties, we have ours. He (pbuh) lived up to his, have we lived up to ours? We should know in our hearts that the success of Islam is guarantee by Allah and that no matter how many divisions take place within the Ummah, the Qur�an cannot be divided or corrupted. That is the Great Gift Allah gave the Ummah. It is greater than any gift He had given before. We, oh brothers and sister of Islam, were promised a Book that would not/could not be corrupted as those before it had been. However, because Allah in His Infinite Wisdom chose to leave humankind in his state of �freewill�, some have found other ways to twist and bend the Qur�an to serve their own agendas instead of what Allah desires for His creation. So, I have a choice, I can spend my days living my life on the Straight Path of Allah carrying His True Way as given through the Qur�an to others through my words and deeds as He commands me to do, or I can jump into the cyst-pool of chaos which has been created by those who either do not believe or veer off the path of Allah. The choice I make will speak volumes for my soul on the Day of Judgment as will yours. May Allah guide us to ever greater enlightenment as to His Way. Ameen. Allah Hafiz PAZ, Khadija ------------- Say: 'My prayer and my rites, my living and my dying, are for Allah alone, the Lord of all the worlds. (Qur'an, 6:162) |
Posted By: rami
Date Posted: 10 December 2005 at 12:55pm
|
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem Rami, how can you say this? The very first division in Islam happen shortly after the death of the Prophet, what does that have to do with the west? And division of nations is not the same as division in the Ummah. Although it is a fact that He created us as different nations, He gave us the Qur�an as a means to unit all of humankind. If all Muslims obeyed the Qur�an and did not live in disharmony with Allah or each other, it would have been impossible for outsiders to divide and conquer them. I am not taking away from the actions of those outside of the Ummah in their attempts to conquer it in order to fulfill their own agenda. However, pointing the finger at others doesn�t solve the problems that we currently see and feel in the Ummah. If you prove to me that the Ummah lived in harmony prior to the invasion of the �west�, I will retract everything I have said. However, I highly doubt you can. You, too, should go back and read the history of the Ummah. But be sure to start with the Prophet�s (pbuh) death and not with the invasion of the �west.� Actually, start before his death and see how much work he did to until the Ummah. Khadijah you are like a person coming late to a conversation and atempting to get the gist of the discussion but not understanding the context of anything that has been said. Division it self is not a sin Allah created people different, i said this in relation to a statment Osama made. Regarding the remainder of your comments i am not discussing solving the problems of the muslim ummah i was giving the br some historical information. i care nothing for your retraction you have not understood the context of what i said in relation to the converstation you have just steered it ofcourse. ------------- Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness. |
Posted By: Khadija1021
Date Posted: 10 December 2005 at 7:00pm
|
Assalamu Alaikum
Rami, are you saying this because you have nothing more meaningful to say about my comment? I didn't know there was a time limit on posting comments to a thread or any posts within that thread. If there is, would you please show me the rule that says so. Not only have I made a few posts on this thread prior to today, I have read every post in this thread and I did so again right before making my last comment. I am not a child and I'm not uneducated. I can follow a conversation despite my alleged handicap of being a woman. And I don�t cower just because someone chastises me by attempting to belittle my intelligence. I never said that division is a sin in itself. I am fully away that Allah created people such that they were divided into nations. Where did I state otherwise? In fact, I agreed with that.
I didn�t ask you to read the remainder of my discussion or to even comment on it. It was addressed to Osama. What I was telling you in my comment addressed to you is that you are wrong in blaming the west for the division that has arisen within the Ummah today. You said: �the division you see today in the muslim world is a direct result of the west not the doing of muslims� I was merely trying to point out to you that that is not the case. The division in the Ummah started as soon as the Prophet (pbuh) took his last breath (probably even before that but not by him). How can the division that started at that time have been created by the west? First of all, the
First of all Brother Rami, what makes you so certain that I owe you or anyone else a retraction for what I said? I do not and, hence, I will not. I don�t have a problem admitting when I am wrong; but I will not admit to something just because someone else thinks I am wrong or is trying to �put me in my place.� Second of all, I didn�t misunderstand anything here. Just because someone makes the claim that I did, doesn�t make it so. And third of all, I would like you to be specific as to how I steered this thread off course. All of my responses were directly related to things that were said in this thread. And they all related back to the original post concerning division within the Ummah with the exception of the comments on Einstein which were a response to Osama�s comment that Allah Hafiz PAZ, Khadija ------------- Say: 'My prayer and my rites, my living and my dying, are for Allah alone, the Lord of all the worlds. (Qur'an, 6:162) |
Posted By: free
Date Posted: 12 December 2005 at 7:09pm
|
each see's the world through their own eyes, we all have a point, and often miss we are speaking along the same lines. |
Posted By: free
Date Posted: 13 December 2005 at 1:12am
|
OK, there is a lot to go through at once�..
Rami, whether you accept it or not, I as a revert have become very confused by your comments. I am no closer in knowing whom to support (or not), and I still feel as though I am a pawn in a game of - who does not have to change! For it is impossible for people to help others innocently, when always in the background they wish you to support them as a pose to their contemporary. If there were consensus this would not have to be, as all there would be would be people inviting to the only message. My pain and confusion although means nothing to you, for you cannot perceive the pain you have put me through. Khadija, Where do I start? However, since someone started it (i.e., you) and then Osama made such an error regarding Einstein�s spiritual beliefs, I felt it important to point out the mistake in his thinking so that other�s who didn�t know about Einstein would not merely assume that Osama�s position regarding him was correct. E=MC2 is a formula that neglects and separates the force of the Lord, how can one talk about the relationship between energy and matter (times light squared), while neglecting the One Force that controls all the others? Einstein puts God in His proper place�before all else�the Creator of Allah things�The Sustainer of existence. Did Einstein not fail in his mission? To unite the energy forces with gravity? Hence proving One Lord? E=MC2 is inadequate in explaining that Force we call God. Are you aware of the details of that Force? (ie are you aware of other than E=MC2?) Then how is it you have the authority to question my response? On a different note, Osama, please explain to me how you went from being �A.J.� a person interesting in becoming a Muslim and wanting some advice regarding problems which arise due to divisions (sects) in Islam to being someone who is not only a �well educated Muslim� but one who touts a love for Osama bin Laden as the only Muslim worthy to trust entirely? Can I not be self-read in Islam, while still not understanding the division of each clan? By saying that �it is for his [Osama bin Laden�s> cause I would give up my life with certainty!� implies that you have placed Osaman bin Laden above Allah. You go as far as to say, �I would gladly blow myself up your face.� Please do not put words into my mouth! Rami was asking me to become of him, I was merely stating I would rather choose bin Laden, that is because I am not confused by his message, and he like me was neglected by calling for unity. You say you are fighting against division; however, after reading you evolution (through posting under the guise of multiple names), I simply see you making the same mistake you accuse others of making. I am all alone and been forced to beg for help, I feel like I am on the verge of a break down and all you can do is question why I have changed my name! You really want to know? I am desperate for help but am offered nought but words, words that neglect unity and hence confuse me, so I become very down and despondent and decide to leave, only then to end up even more alone, so I come back even though it doesn�t feel like home! So in other words I don�t fit in here, but have no where else to go, I am advised to choose a path which feels right to me, and then when I do all criticise me. If you don�t want me to speak, well all I asked for was some practical help because non-Muslim�s hath rejected me. Each time I honestly share these things with people, I allow the devil to hurt me because I wear my heart on my sleeve. |
Posted By: free
Date Posted: 13 December 2005 at 1:18am
|
was i offered no help becasue of what i saith? was i offered no help because i didn't pick a sect from the division? please just tell me why you didn't help me! you know i am struggling to move on with my life, where is the mercy? |
Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 13 December 2005 at 2:30am
|
Bismillah, Brother, what help do you seek from this discussion board? What exactly do you need to receive or accomplish? What can we do to help you? OBL's message may be simple, but to kill innocent people is haram. That is why I hate him along with GB. ------------- Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will. |
Posted By: ak_m_f
Date Posted: 13 December 2005 at 3:13am
|
In this world of techonology we cant trust digital media, they can be edited. I hope you people still remeber seeing the speech of union. OBL's tape had many purpose 1) 9-11 happened. 2) People were scared of Al-Queda 3) US went to war, security was put in place in airports in the US, more police and the Patriot act and the homeland security act as well. 4) It's been 3 years since 9-11 and NOTHING ELSE HAS HAPPENED IN THE US, US is out of a recession, things are safer and we're on the offensive. THAT MAKES PEOPLE FEEL SAFER AND PEOPLE ARE NOT EVEN THINKING OF 9-11 OR AL-QUEDA BECAUSE BUSH IN OFFICE HAS BEEFED UP SECURITY AND IT'S ON THE OFFENSIVE THEREFORE PEOPLE FEEL SAFER. 5) Now at election time people are thinking of WHO TO VOTE FOR, people are not worried about 9-11 that much THEN ALL OF SUDDEN Osama Bin Laden shows up on TV saying that he will attack the USA again and that more attacks are COMING IF BUSH gets Re-elected. 6) People start remembering 9-11 all over again and fear AL-Queda, they see Osama saying that if BUSH gets re-elected he will start doing more terrorist act. This is Called REVERSE PSYCHOLOGY. If Osama says: DONT VOTE FOR BUSH OR ELSE. PEOPLE THINK: "Osama wants Kerry to be president BUT in the past 3 years after 9-11 Security has been very tight, we're on the offensive and 3 years after 9-11 things are in great place, we're out of a recession, we have a good job, rates are low, taxes are low AND THE BEST PART is that Security is restored and we're on the offensive to DESTROY the people that want to attack us." 7) Therefore Osama Bin Ladin's tape uses reverse psychology on the American people to VOTE FOR BUSH |
Posted By: free
Date Posted: 13 December 2005 at 5:27am
|
Confusion existed before I came along Now they hath humiliated me to the point where I hath been forced to beg Know that unless thou embrace their particular message thou will not be fed I am not a violent person, nor into violence will I be led I simply hath compassion to meet the problems of those whom hath made this pledge So if thee wish to strip me of mine audacity please remember their pledge And that alone thine effort hath not led to a peaceful success |
Posted By: free
Date Posted: 13 December 2005 at 5:43am
|
Herjihad stated: "OBL's message may be simple, but to kill innocent people is haram. That is why I hate him along with GB." Where in any of his messages has he told anyone to kill anyone else? I think you have been deceived. Herjihad stated: "Brother, what help do you seek from this discussion board? What exactly do you need to receive or accomplish? What can we do to help you?" I have tried to make this simple, no imam, scholar, or learned person will even give me the time of day, so you as Muslim's have offered me no help. I don't even feel like I belong here because everyone has a problem with me, so you won't even let me be! Unfortunatley I have nowhere else to go, so I have returned because of that glimmer of hope. You obviously are unable to help me in anyway whatsoever, all I have asked for is to speak to someone whom truly believes in God (and knows of science), because those who disbelieve hate me, and wish for nothing more than to destroy me. However everyone here seems to think that the system is fair, well I honestly wish you the best, but I am a living example that it is certainly not fair! |
Posted By: free
Date Posted: 13 December 2005 at 6:02am
|
a_k_mf stated: "ALL OF SUDDEN Osama Bin Laden shows up on TV saying that he will attack the USA again and that more attacks are COMING IF BUSH gets Re-elected." He has never said such a thing..... it is a pity you believe all the media states! Osama Bin Laden: �The situation at the land of the two Holy places became like a huge volcano at the verge of eruption that would destroy the Kufr and the corruption and its' sources. The explosion at Riyadh and AlKhobar is a warning of this volcanic eruption emerging as a result of the sever oppression, suffering, excessive iniquity, humiliation and poverty.� Full speech can be found at [http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1022331] Sheikh Bin laden shows great wisdom within the words above, for he gracefully explains the source of what you deem is the no-good. At no point is he admitting to ordering any iniquity, rather simply explaining the inevitable results of man made policy. If you posses any contrary evidence, clear proof he has ordered any terrorism, I will gladly read over that evidence, for a propaganda myth is what I call terrorism. What he actually said was that it didn't matter who the American public voted in, for both were essentially of the same agenda. Did you know 'Kerry' belonged to the same masonic fraternity (ie the 'skull and cross bones')? a_k_mf stated: AND THE BEST PART is that Security is restored and we're on the offensive to DESTROY the people that want to attack us." No one wants to attack you, but you wish to DESTROY anything that threatens you. If you really think that Al-Qaeda is responsible for every terrorist act that happens in the world, then i feel sorry for you. In reality even though your Presidnet declared the Iraq war over, do you not recall how easy it was for the Americans to take over? That is because of the military tactics involved, the army dispersed because of the overwhelming power of the initial force. Since then they continued in fighting an occupation, for propaganda purposes the war is over, in reality it has never ceased to be over! Can you not perceive that if a person were starving they might steal? Can you not perceive that crimes done against people creates zeal? |
Posted By: herjihad
Date Posted: 13 December 2005 at 8:11am
|
Bismillah, Salaams Free. You know, most of the people here are Muslims, and many believe in God, and a few are atheists or agnostics. The story you tell of OBL is different, that's true. And I don't think I will hear any evidence that he is not what he has been portrayed as being. But ak pointed out that it was just a political scheme to get power for Bush. And you pointed out that Bush and Kerry are very similar, so maybe the conspiracy was shared in their skull club. Either way, it is hard to tell the truth. For me, I just make it clear that whether it is Bush ordering innocent people to be murdered or OBL, I hate them both equally. So if one of them is innocent of the charges, may Allah, SWT forgive and guide me. And after I saw the tape of Bush altered so skillfully where they have edited it for him to say in front of Congress that he is pro-death and pro-terrorism et cetera, I really do wonder about the basis of my conviction about OBL and many other things I have "seen" proven on tv and the computer. ------------- Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will. |
Posted By: free
Date Posted: 13 December 2005 at 11:24am
|
Dear Herjihad, Thank you for this, I am sure it will go along way in leading to a greater compromise, Insha Allah. I remember Bush�s words when he intended to invade Iraq - you are either with us, or against � hmmm, if I am against you does that mean I support terrorism? And whenever a nation wishes to take over the world, they have to demonise the other nation, so as not to upset their own! How many things hath Iesa {SAW} been portrayed as being? This is why I prefer not to judge; especially when there is no evidence I hath seen, I guarantee that you will not find a call to terrorism in any of Bin Laden�s speech, so what is your evidence other than what on the one eye you hath seen? Whether your judgement allows you to believe me or not, �Tookie� Williams will testify those of this world do not, you see they hath to play the judge, disbelieving in Resurrection where is the All-Seeing Judge. In ignorance they ever send out the wrong message, that your repentance will in no way be accepted! If you say this to a person whom is engrossed in sin, would you expect them to stop doing anything?! So don�t isolate people and mock at their sin, the only way to stop this is if we have all forgiven, this is impossible for those whom don�t believe in Resurrection, but without hope of mercy how will they cease their destruction? |
Posted By: free
Date Posted: 13 December 2005 at 11:43am
|
Dear Khadija, If I may return to something I hath not covered properly, don�t you see I am I trying to understand their philosophy? �They also deny they can be out plotted by a Higher Force�; however, that higher force is Allah, not Osama bin Laden or any other human here on earth. � And how true your comment, an example is the past Prophet�s {SAW}, Moses, Lot, and also Noah � they were all dependent on nought but the Lord, whom destroyed their enemies without a war. I am of the opinion Bush should forget about his law, for he hath a greater enemy - that of the Lord. I hope this may bring forth ease in your heart, the devil will fall we just hath to keep to our part. & nbsp; |
Posted By: free
Date Posted: 13 December 2005 at 11:44am
|
All Praise is due to Allah The All-Hearing, All-Seeing Be! And I was -- Created to be Be nought but what Allah created me to be So the world wants to destroyeth me! Tightening the noose not allowing me to breathe No one wishes to listen carefully So I am trampled on by others whom are allowed to be No company have I found with thee Nought but people occupied with their own destiny So, Be! And I was -- Created to be Be nought but what Allah created me to be All Praise is due to Allah The All-Hearing, All-Seeing And last but not least, the All-Knowing |
Posted By: free
Date Posted: 13 December 2005 at 11:48am
|
O Creator Please protect me from the evil one Whom hath surrounded me with the world And whom now jesteth at me in fun O Protector Thou are aware of what all have done Thou are aware of the trap of the world And the sorcery that has been spun O mine Lord Mine only Protector from the evil one Thou are aware I wish no part in the world A world that hateth me for fun O Expediter The world deceives from the only peace Please won�t You allow me the freedom So my spirit can take the course in between |
Posted By: Community
Date Posted: 13 December 2005 at 12:11pm
|
Whether your judgement allows you to believe me or not, �Tookie� Williams will testify those of this world do not, you see they hath to play the judge, disbelieving in Resurrection where is the All-Seeing Judge. In ignorance they ever send out the wrong message, that your repentance will in no way be accepted! Some people wanted him to die because of the people he supposedly killed. I find it hard to agree with his execution, but i find it even harder to be living in a world with people who can not let go of their sense of revenge.
|
Posted By: ak_m_f
Date Posted: 13 December 2005 at 3:05pm
|
The tookienator is back btw check this out http://www.dumpalink.com/media/1120921538/The_Terminator_Has ta_La_Vista_Baby_Jesus |
Posted By: free
Date Posted: 13 December 2005 at 4:23pm
|
"If you have fear of some pain or suffering, you should examine whether there is anything you can do about it. If you can, there is no need to worry about it; if you cannot do anything, then there is also no need to worry." Dalai Lama "To be aware of a single shortcoming within oneself is more useful than to be aware of a thousand in somebody else. Rather than speaking badly about people and in ways that will produce friction and unrest in their lives, we should practice a purer perception of them, and when we speak of others, speak of their good qualities." Dalai Lama The above words are addressed to mine self, for my journey hath taken a roundabout route. Are there not many places we come together? Only for a bit of pride to cause friction & bother. The closer thou draw to the Seal of the Prophet�s, the more satisfied are all with that in their pocket. May peace be upon you all, and follow the seal of the Prophet�s. |
Posted By: rami
Date Posted: 14 December 2005 at 1:00am
|
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem I was merely trying to point out to you that that is not the case. The division in the Ummah started as soon as the Prophet (pbuh) took his last breath (probably even before that but not by him). How can the division that started at that time have been created by the west? Division in general started during the time of the prophet and he had to deal with it. The demise of the Islamic Khalifah was at the hands of non muslims. It is not rational to put the downfall of the Khalifah in 1924(?) to a genralised division in the Ummah 1300 years earlier. Free, I have not decided if i should reply to your posts yet as i am finding it hard to make the effort when the person asking the Questions has shown disrespect towards me. You create a new user name every second day almost and you continue to do this even after knowing that it is against forum rules as i informed you my self. Rami was asking me to become of him, I was merely stating I would rather choose bin Laden I did no such thing, i advised that you read a few articles which would have given you background knwoledge of all the things i mentioned, if you chose not to that is your choice but i cant be blamed for asuming a person would at least research something he is criticising. ------------- Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness. |
Posted By: abdulraheem
Date Posted: 14 December 2005 at 3:22am
|
As salaamu alaikum A.J, Alhamdulillah that u discovered the true religion Islam. Just my advice is to keep Allah in ur heart and pray for ur right path. May Allah bless u, and keep u on this right path. Allah Hafiz |
Posted By: Khadija1021
Date Posted: 14 December 2005 at 10:52pm
|
ASSALAMU ALAIKUM Brother Free, I, too, am a new revert living in the One of the things I had to come to terms with just this week is how I let what I see affect me. Do I let the negative side of what I see affect me in a way that I become in some sense, like by my harsh judgment, just like it? I have cried so many tears these past few days and begged Allah to help me with this. I, too, need and Ummah. I, too, want unity in Islam. That is why I came to IC. I need this place. Allah said to hold on to the rope He extends to us. If we look out into the world, we can get confused and think that there are many ropes not just one. Sure, the world has many ropes and there are plenty of people to say �Here, this is the right one�grab a hold.� I see the problem now�for me at least. I know that as long as I look to people to find that rope, I will risk not grabbing the right rope. People are fallible. I know that what I must do it live in this world but always with my heart and my head seeking the Rope Allah has promised me and not the ropes of this world. Yes, some days it is hard to do that alone but that�s only because I forget that I�m never truly alone. Allah is always with me. I have the precious Noble Qur�an and the Hadith within arms reach at all time. No scholar is perfect but there is a lot of wonderful writings out that by Muslim scholars who despite their imperfections have dedicated their lives to seeking the Rope of Allah. It is not that we can be perfect in our efforts that matters, but rather, that we always continue to seek Allah for both guidance and forgiveness while we are in this world. We are promised tests and told to hold tight and to be patient�not to panic no matter what happens in this world. Yusuf Ali Translation of Sura 2, Ayat 177: It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces toward East or West; but it is righteousness to believe in Allah and the Last Day and the Angels and the Book and the Messengers; to spend of your substance out of love for Him for your kin for orphans for the needy for the wayfarer for those who ask and for the ransom of slaves; to be steadfast in prayer and practice regular charity; to fulfill the contracts which ye have made; and to be firm and patient in pain (or suffering) and adversity and throughout all periods of panic. Such are the people of truth the Allah-fearing. I pray that Allah guides me to His Rope and keeps me close so that I can hold tight. I also pray that as I hold on I don�t get tired, that I am able to be patient and ever learn to be more patient, and especially that I trust in the Strength of His Rope enough not to panic. I know that Allah says in the end days, people will be running around in a panic, not caring about others. But I pray, no I beg, Allah to lead me to righteousness so that I will not panic no matter what adversity comes my way. I pray this not only for myself, but for all of the Ummah. Ameen.
I am a human, and as a human, I need certain things. Allah talks about those things in the precious Noble Qur�an, community is one of them. I know I don�t have a perfect Ummah. Some might say I don�t even have a real one. Some may even say I don�t deserve one because I�m not this or that. But that�s just the world talking. Allah knows best. I do have my own little Ummah. It�s made up of IC and a circle of sisters and brothers that I keep in contract with via the internet. They are not in my personal space here on this planet, but they are here for me when I need them and sometimes I don�t even have to say I need them...somehow, ALHAMDULILLAH, they just know. We don�t always agree on every thing, but for what we lack in perfection, we make up in forgiveness. MASHALLAH! ALLAHU AKBAR! ALLAH HAFIZ WA ALAIKUM ASSALAM Sister Khadija ------------- Say: 'My prayer and my rites, my living and my dying, are for Allah alone, the Lord of all the worlds. (Qur'an, 6:162) |
Posted By: free
Date Posted: 15 December 2005 at 5:54am
|
Assalaamu alaikum wa rahmatullah Dear rami, No doubt I hath made mistakes in the past, and no doubt I will make mistakes in the future. With regards to the changing name issue, Only Allah {SWT} is able to free me from mine transgressions, hence I am sorry if you feel your words were falling upon death ears. I do now feel as though I hath been freed from this transgression, so sorry if mine actions hath caused you problems. With regards to the statement I said concerning Osama bin Laden, it was insensitive of me to compare you with him! And I will gladly do some more research upon your belief�s. All I ask in return is that you are aware I hath compromised, for there may well be occasions when I ask of you to compromise. Kind regards antony |
Posted By: rami
Date Posted: 15 December 2005 at 6:26am
|
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem Antony can you do one thing for me, please choose one user name and stick with it and insha allah we can continue from there. if i may sugest use your name antony, my real name is rami i have no problem with using it. ------------- Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness. |
Posted By: free
Date Posted: 15 December 2005 at 6:30am
|
Wa alaikum salaam wa rahmatullah Khadija Thanks for your post, Alhamdulilah�.. I can see you are very clever, and how you hath understood many of my emotions, and incorporated that understanding into your post in order to help me, and in a sensitive manner - made me feel more welcome and wanted�.. I gratefully accept your gift, and thank you for the time and effort you hath given to helping me. Maybe one day I will be able to return the caring favour, meantime I hath to deal with the feelings you hath instigated, for sometimes I allow mine self to get too excited, especially when a woman shows me such caring compassion. Anyway without wishing to be a kill-joy, may I politely mention that I prefer Holy Qur�an, as a pose to Noble Qur�an. This is because �Holy� emphasises the Divine nature of the Qur�an, whereas �Noble� has a greater emphasis toward its creation been of the aristocracy. Kind regards antony |
Posted By: free
Date Posted: 15 December 2005 at 10:57am
|
rami, please do not tell me to stop changing my username, for you only then to advise me to change it! |
Posted By: free
Date Posted: 15 December 2005 at 12:16pm
|
Wa alaikum salaam wa rahmatullah abdulraheem Please forgive mine rudeness, I do very much appreciate your comment, and would like to personally welcome you to Islamicity forum. I hope you find your time here to be useful. kind regards antony |
Posted By: rami
Date Posted: 15 December 2005 at 7:56pm
|
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem then will you stick with the user name free? ------------- Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness. |