Will Muslims accept Jesus as thier saviour.
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Topic: Will Muslims accept Jesus as thier saviour.
Posted By: Power of GOD
Subject: Will Muslims accept Jesus as thier saviour.
Date Posted: 15 July 2014 at 4:27pm
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Will muslims accept Jesus as thier saviour when he apears on the clouds now.
Matthew 24:30 "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory.
Matthew 24: 36-39 No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothng about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. |
Replies:
Posted By: Abu Loren
Date Posted: 16 July 2014 at 12:20pm
Indeed when Isa Ibn Maryam (Alayhi Salaam) descends he will hold on to the wings of two angels and will descend in Damascus. You Christians will run to him and the following will happen. MATTHEW 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. |
Power of GOD wrote:Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 16 July 2014 at 3:52pm
No, we will accept him as a prophet of God, just like we always have.  The better question is will Christians accept Jesus as the prophet of God and give up their heretical beliefs about him? When he descends near the end of time, with the permission of Allah (Glorified and Exalted Be He), he will set the records straight. Will Christians come to terms with the truth at that time? I certainly hope so! By the way, according to the Gospels, your "savior" was supposed to have "appeared in the clouds" during the lifetime of the first generation of Christians. "Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.� (Matthew 16:28) ------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
Posted By: Power of GOD
Date Posted: 16 July 2014 at 5:53pm
Explain http://biblia.com/bible/kjv1900/Matthew%2016.28 - Mat 16:28 about some not dying until they see the kingdom. The verses following show that Jesus took three disciples up on a high mountain and was transfigured before them. This was a taste of the second coming of Christ. He was glorified with Moses and Elijah
So Jesus was speaking the truth Peter,James and John have seen his Kingdom.
Mat 17 1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter , James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart , 2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. 3 And, behold , there appeared unto them Moses and Elija talking with him. 4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt , let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. 5 While he yet spake , behold , a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said , This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased ; hear ye him. 6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid . 7 And Jesus came and touched them, and said , Arise , and be not afraid . 8 And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only. 9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying , Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead. 10 And his disciples asked him, saying , Why then say the scribes that Elija must first come ? 11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come , and restore all things. 12 But I say unto you, That Elija is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed . Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them. 13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.
WE Christians will accept JESUS as our messiah our saviour and the Son of God and not just a prophet.
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Posted By: Power of GOD
Date Posted: 16 July 2014 at 7:25pm
Jesus do not need angels to descend from heaven and since when will he Descend in Damascus He will have no specific focus point when he will descend the whole world will see Him.
Apparently, there is going to be a lot of deception about Jesus' second coming. But God will not allow even Satan to fully copy how Jesus is to come. We know this is true because Jesus specifically warns us how He is to come. All others are imposters! If people say they are one of the dead prophets or even Christ or if even Satan comes as Christ! We are told not to believe any of these reports or even what we see. Because Christ's coming will be a very public event! For as lightning comes from the east to the west, covering the entire sky; This is what it is going to be like when Jesus comes. No matter where you are on earth, the lightning will cover the sky announcing His coming. So, if someone says Jesus has already come, you will know that it is not true! When Jesus comes back, everyone will see it over the whole earth. Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen. Revelation 1:7. |
Posted By: Power of GOD
Date Posted: 16 July 2014 at 7:35pm
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 |
Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 17 July 2014 at 8:52pm
This is the standard Christian attempt to explain the clear false prophecy attributed to Jesus (peace be upon him). But the appeal to the transfiguration fails when we consider other verses, which you have ignored: �Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth "#fen-NIV-23988c" - c ]">[ https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew+24&version=NIV#fen-NIV-23988c - c ] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. "#fen-NIV-23988d" - d ]">[ https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew+24&version=NIV#fen-NIV-23988d - d ] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. 32 �Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it "#fen-NIV-23991e" - e ]">[ https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew+24&version=NIV#fen-NIV-23991e - e ] is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. (Matthew 24:30-35) ------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 17 July 2014 at 9:53pm
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37 And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost. 38 And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom. 39 And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.
------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: NABA
Date Posted: 17 July 2014 at 11:09pm
| Assalamalecum,No, we muslims accept Jesus Christ (pbuh) as prophet of Allah, Jesus Christ (pbuh) was muslim (ch 3 v 52 of Quran). |
Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 19 July 2014 at 11:28am
Jesus called out with a loud voice, �Father, into your hands I commit my spirit.� "#fen-NIV-25982e" - e ]">[ https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+23&version=NIV#fen-NIV-25982e - e ] When he had said this, he breathed his last. 47 The centurion, seeing what had happened, praised God and said, �Surely this was a righteous man.�  So apparently, the so-called "inspired" Gospels are not sure exactly what the "centurion" said! Go figure... ------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 19 July 2014 at 11:39am
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Greetings islamispeace, ... different writers... different interpretation... different time and place... different word of mouth... still the same essential message  carried far and wide.asalaam and blessings. ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 19 July 2014 at 12:24pm
What a load of tripe! It is not a "different interpretation" and so on. It is a flat-out contradiction between supposed "inspired" documents. The "centurion" either referred to Jesus as the "son of God" or as "a righteous man". Your gospels can't even agree with each other on simple matters such as this.  ------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 19 July 2014 at 2:24pm
Contradictory testimony at a trial usually leads a to mistrial. When "witnesses" cannot agree on even simple issues, then what credibility do they really have? What good are many "witnesses" if one says one thing and another says another thing?  ------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
Posted By: Power of GOD
Date Posted: 21 July 2014 at 2:33am
The only thing that contradicts Jesus is the quran Muhammad has got his so called revalation without any witnesses that his so called angel was seen by other why must he always go the cave to receive his so called revelation where nobody can claim he was a liar
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Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 21 July 2014 at 7:10pm
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Does anyone believe that they can earn their own way into heaven? (I found myself asking myself this today, do muslims really think they can earn their way into heaven? Do they think they can ever be 'good enough'? Can any of us? None of us can achieve the level of purity necessary to be in the presence of God.) I know myself, that I can never be good enough. I know that I struggle with impatience... I am not always as non-critical, non-judgemental, or forgiving as I ought to be... I tend to envy others when I see they have what I have not... In many ways, every day, I must ask God to forgive and strengthen me in these things... to help me be thankful for the blessings I do have. I strive every day to count and give thanks for my blessings, rather than my sorrows. The sacrifice of Yshwe humbles us... so we come to see and accept that we can never earn our own way into paradise... not in our own power... it is not in our power to do this alone... only through the power of God which strengthens us, and the grace of God which has given us forgiveness for the things He already knows we are too weak to overcome on our own... 27 And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible. asalaam and blessings. ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 21 July 2014 at 9:02pm
Trying to change the subject, eh? Come now. Why do your gospels contradict each other? What good are your "witnesses" when they provide contradictory testimony? As for your new question, Muslims believe that faith and good works go hand in hand. However, ultimately it is faith that saves us. Good works without faith in Allah will not lead to Paradise. It will ultimately come down to Allah's mercy on us. He is Al-Rahman, Al-Rahim. We rely on His mercy to achieve salvation. He does not require a blood sacrifice to forgive. His mercy far outweighs His wrath. It takes a sincere heart and sincere repentance. If we have these, then Allah (Glorified and Exalted be He) promises us that He will forgive us our sins and shortcomings. He knows we are not perfect. That is how He created us. But, He has endowed us with the ability to choose right from wrong and truth from falsehood and given us the guidance to help us make the right choice. The problem is too many of us choose to disobey him or follow false doctrines (one example is false doctrine of Christianity). ------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 25 July 2014 at 5:13pm
I see that you did not respond to what I showed regarding the false prophecy attributed to Jesus (peace be upon him) nor to the contradictory nature of the so-called "many witnesses" of the Bible. Changing the subject does not negate the clear fact that the Bible is self-contradictory. You can try to ignore the evidence, like most apologists , or you can stop lying to yourself and embrace the truth. You are not doing anyone any favors if you accept the truth. It's for your own good.------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
Posted By: Ron Webb
Date Posted: 25 July 2014 at 6:43pm
I find it hilarious that theists are so quick to point out contradictions in others' scriptures, but are totally blind to the flaws in their own.Certainly there are many contradictions in the Bible -- but then that is to be expected, because the Bible has many authors and does not claim to be the literal Word of God. Unlike the Quran, which is rife with contradictions as well. Just one of dozens of examples: "Surely those who believe and those who are Jews and the Sabians and the Christians whoever believes in Allah and the last day and does good-- they shall have no fear nor shall they grieve." (5:69) "And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers." (3:85) So should Caringheart have no fear, or is she one of the losers? ------------- Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect. |
Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 25 July 2014 at 8:34pm
I find it hilarious that an ignoramus just doesn't learn his lesson and continues to try his luck and pretend like he knows what he is talking about! Now, let's see if the pretend Sheik completely missed the point of Surah 5:69 (Hint: Yes, he did!  )"O Messenger! proclaim the (message) which hath been sent to thee from thy Lord. If thou didst not, thou wouldst not have fulfilled and proclaimed His mission. And Allah will defend thee from men (who mean mischief). For Allah guideth not those who reject Faith. Say: "O People of the Book! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord." It is the revelation that cometh to thee from thy Lord, that increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. But sorrow thou not over (these) people without Faith. Those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. We took the covenant of the Children of Israel and sent them messengers, every time, there came to them a messenger with what they themselves desired not - some (of these) they called impostors, and some they (go so far as to) slay. They thought there would be no trial (or punishment); so they became blind and deaf; yet Allah (in mercy) turned to them; yet again many of them became blind and deaf. But Allah sees well all that they do. They do blaspheme who say: "Allah is Christ the son of Mary." But said Christ: "O Children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with Allah,- Allah will forbid him the garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help." (Surah Al-Maeda, 5:67-72) As we can see, when read in context, the verse makes it very clear that the Jews, Christians and Sabians that it is referring to are those who lived before the coming of Islam and had believed in their prophets and scriptures and did not deviate by adopting false beliefs. Those whose minds have not been befuddled by their own ignorance and st**idity can readily see this fact. Sorry, Sheik Ron! You screwed up again! This must be getting frustrating for you...  ------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
Posted By: Power of GOD
Date Posted: 25 July 2014 at 9:33pm
At least there were many witnesses in the bible that witnesed that Jesus was the Son of God it was the jews,romans,samaritans and gentiles.
Does God intend that we would start with Judaism, then change to Christianity, then change to Islam? No. God has been consistent. He has never been interested in building a religion.Beginning with Abraham, God has been clear about revealing himself to us so that we could be in relationship with him. A relationship, not a religion, is God's ultimate purpose in creating us.
Let's say we have a vase. It has no flowers, no water in it. It is merely full of air. What is the difference between the air outside the vase and the air inside the vase? The air inside the vase has shape, right? It is the same air in composition, but the air inside the vase has shape.
If we take that vase and smash it against the wall, what happens to the air inside of it? Does it die? No, air cannot die. The vase can be in thousands of pieces, but nothing happens to the air, except lose its shape.
When Jesus died on the cross, his body died, but the Spirit of Jesus, the Spirit of God never dies. God took on the form of man, in Jesus. He took on the shape of man, but Jesus was never only man. On the cross, Jesus paid for our sin and removed the barrier that stood between us and him. Because of his death, we can be at peace with God. Though we were guilty, the justice of God was fully met by Jesus, the Lamb of God who suffered for us. And the love of God was fully expressed in that Jesus willingly laid down his life for us. You may say, "That's not fair." And you're right. We don't deserve Jesus' dying for us. But this was God's solution for us. Do we tell God how it must be? Jesus paid our penalty of death, so that we would not need to die for our sins. He wants us to come into relationship with him, to know his love, and to have eternal life. One more story. A true story, to help you understand what Jesus did for us. |
Posted By: Ron Webb
Date Posted: 26 July 2014 at 7:08am
Yes, you could probably resolve the contradiction by changing the verse from present tense to past tense, i.e., "believed" instead of "believe". However, that isn't what 5:69 actually says, and no translation I know of has dared to make that change. In fact, the Yusuf Ali translation adds the following footnote for emphasis: "As God's message is one, Islam recognizes true faith in other forms, provided that it be sincere, supported by reason, and backed up by righteous conduct." By the way, there is a very similar verse at 2:62: "Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve." Again, present tense, not past tense; and this verse immediately follows a discussion of Moses. I hope you're not going to claim that it refers only to Christians during the time of Moses. ------------- Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect. |
Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 26 July 2014 at 12:47pm
So Sheik Ron is still trying to pass himself off as someone who has actually done some research. Hmmm, let's see what Yusuf Ali actually stated in his commentary to 5:69 (pay attention Sheik; you need some education ):"Here, as in Surat al Baqarah (2:62), the Qur'an underscores the importance of true and genuine faith, which is to be judged by a sincere belief in Allah and man's accountability to Him backed by righteous conduct rather than by mere forms or labels. In both places it repudiates the false claims of the People of the Book that they had a special relationship with Allah for they were the children of Abraham; that they were a chosen people with special privileges, and no matter what they did, their high status would remain unaffected. Here this false notion is refuted and the People of the Book are being reminded that it is through sincere belief and righteous conduct rather than pretentious claims that man can win his Lord's pleasure and achieve ultimate success. The verse does not purport to lay down an exhaustive list of the articles of faith. Nor does it seek to spell out the essentials of a genuine belief in Allah, which has no meaning unless it is accompanied by belief in His Prophets for it is through their agency alone that we know Allah's Will and can abide by it in our practical lives. This is especially true of His final Prophet, Muhammad (peace be on him) whose message is universal, and not confined to any particular group or section of humanity. Belief in the Prophethood of Muhammad (peace be on him) is thus an integral part and a logical corollary of belief in Allah. Moreover, it is also an essential test of genuineness of such belief. This becomes clear when the verse is read in conjunction with other relevant verses of the Qur'an. See, for instance, 4:170, 5:16, 21, 7:157, 158, 21:107, 25:1, 33:40, 61:6. See also 2:40 , 3:31 -32. 4:150-151." ( http://bradfordisoc.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/quran-yusuf-ali.pdf - http://bradfordisoc.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/quran-yusuf-ali.pdf ) So, we can see that Sheik Ron never actually bothered to read Yusuf Ali's commentary.  We can see Yusuf Ali's point even more clearly in the commentary to 2:62 (which the fake Sheik quoted to save himself from embarrassment): "The point of the verse is that Islam does not teach an exclusive doctrine, and is not meant exclusively for one people. The Jews claimed this for themselves, and the Christians in their origin were a sect of the Jews. Even the modern organized Christian churches, though they have been, consciously or unconsciously, influenced by the Time Spirit, including the historical fact of Islam, yet cling to the idea of Vicarious Atonement, which means that all who do not believe in it or who lied previously to the death of Christ are at a disadvantage spiritually before the Throne of Allah. The attitude of Islam is entirely different. Islam existed before the preaching of Muhammad on this earth: the Qur'an expressly calls Abraham a Muslim (3:67). Its teaching (submission to Allah's will) has been and will be the teaching of Religion for all time and for all peoples." Hence, the reference to Jews, Christians and Sabians includes those who believed before the coming of Muhammad (peace be upon him), since they were in reality Muslims. All prophets were Muslims, since they submitted to the One God. Therefore, their followers were also Muslims. And as for those who lived in the time of Muhammad (peace be upon him), if they were sincere in faith, they would believe in Muhammad as well. That is why people like Bahira the Monk and Waraqah ibn Naufal believed in Muhammad (peace be upon him). So, fake Sheik, your education is complete. It is time to graduate... ------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
Posted By: Ron Webb
Date Posted: 26 July 2014 at 3:54pm
No, I've never seen that commentary. I was quoting the footnote in my own hard copy of the Quran, The Meaning of the Glorious Qur'an by Abdullah Yusuf Ali (third edition, 1938), a gift from my father-in-law. I quoted the entire footnote except for a reference to another footnote about the Sabians. Can you tell me who actually wrote the text you linked to? It is evidently based on the Yusuf Ali translation, but it doesn't name the author or give the publication date. It's also odd that the file name of the PDF doesn't match the title page (the "Glorious" Qur'an, versus the "Noble" Qur'an). I'm assuming it's a later edition, in which Ali noticed the contradiction and tried to explain it away -- but it just won't work. Like you, he wants to add stuff to the verses that simply isn't there. Verse 5:69 is straightforward: righteous Jews and Christians shall have no fear or grief in the Hereafter. That's what it says. It doesn't say that they have to believe in Muhammad (which would be silly because Christians and Jews by definition don't believe in Muhammad); and it isn't limited to the period prior to Muhammad. You can make up whatever you want, but it's not in the Quran. ------------- Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect. |
Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 26 July 2014 at 9:17pm
So the fake Sheik thinks he knows better than Muslims! That will be the day! Maybe when Hell freezes over... In any case, even if the fake Sheik wants to disregard the Yusuf Ali commentary, the fact still remains that the context of Surah 5:69 is very clear. It refers to the deviant beliefs of Jews and Christians in verses before and after verse 69. In fact, the Quran even states in verse 65 that had the "People of the Book" (i.e. Jews and Christians) had believed and been righteous, then Allah (swt) would have forgiven them: "If only the People of the Book had believed and been righteous, We should indeed have blotted out their iniquities and admitted them to gardens of bliss." What did the "People of the Book" have to believe in order to achieve salvation??? Islam!!! Ding, ding, ding! This is the context of verse 69 (which also applies to Surah 2:62), which charlatans and pseudo-scholars like to conveniently ignore!  ------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
Posted By: Power of GOD
Date Posted: 27 July 2014 at 3:33pm
If the Qur�an is correct, then Jesus converted at least some of the children of Israel to Islam. Though there is absolutely no historical evidence for any such conversions, let us assume for the sake of argument that there were first century Jews who believed the message of Jesus and became Muslims. As we shall see, this assumption only presents problems for Muslim apologists. If there were first-century Jews who converted to Islam at the preaching of Jesus, they didn�t last very long. The idea that Jesus� earliest followers were Muslims raises an obvious question: Why have we never heard of any Muslims existing in the first century? We have a great deal of historical information about Jesus� first-century followers, but we have no evidence at all of any Muslims. Defenders of Islam will most likely claim here that Christianity wiped out all the records of Jesus� non-Christian followers, but such a view is absurd. We have both Christian and non-Christian sources that report early Christian beliefs, yet none of these sources mention the existence of any Muslim-Christians. At the very least, we can say with absolute certainty that Jesus� death was well-known among ancient authorities, and that Jesus� earliest followers�including Peter, James, and John�came to believe that Jesus had died on the cross for their sins and that he had risen from the dead. (We also know that the disciples held Jesus to be the divine Son of God, but this isn�t necessary for my argument.) All four New Testament Gospels confirm the early Christian belief in Jesus� death and resurrection, as does the book of Acts. Paul�s letters also repeatedly proclaim Jesus� death and resurrection. Further, an ancient creed recorded in 1 Corinthians 15 has been dated to within a few years of Jesus� life and therefore provides extremely early testimony about Christian beliefs during the time of the apostles. It reads:
For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that He appeared to Cephas [Peter], then to the twelve.
We also have early Christian writings from outside the New Testament that report the beliefs of Jesus� followers. For instance, Clement of Rome, who was ordained as Bishop of Rome by the Apostle Peter, writes about the apostles� belief in Jesus� resurrection from the dead. Polycarp, who was ordained by the Apostle John, mentions Jesus� resurrection numerous times. There are even several ancient non-Christian sources that report crucial information about Jesus and the apostles. According to both the Jewish historian Josephus and the Roman historian Tacitus, Jesus was crucified during the reign of Pontius Pilate. Lucian of Samosata, a Greek satirist, states, �The Christians, you know, worship a man to this day�the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account.� Even the Jewish Talmud reports the crucifixion of Jesus. |
Posted By: Ron Webb
Date Posted: 28 July 2014 at 7:15pm
This beginning to look like wilful ignorance. If you are reading the verses in context, as you claimed, and if you quoted verse 65, then surely you must have also read the one that follows (5:66): "If they had observed the Torah and the Gospel and that which was revealed unto them from their Lord, they would surely have been nourished from above them and from beneath their feet." So, what they had to believe was not "Allah", or at least not the Muslim concept of Allah. They had to believe the Jewish and Christian scriptures. ------------- Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect. |
Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 30 July 2014 at 2:57pm
The fake Sheik still doesn't realize how dumb and ignorant he is!You are such a deluded i-d-i-o-t that you don't even realize that the verse you are (mis)quoting actually contradicts your claim. The phrase "...and that which was revealed unto them..." is not a reference to the Torah and the Gospel but to the Quran! In other words, the verse stipulates that a true believer accepts ALL revelations from Allah (Glorified and Exalted be He), not just some. Furthermore, the Quran states elsewhere that the Jews and Christians had both NOT believed in the TRUE Torah and Gospel anyway, because they had changed both books and forgotten the true message: "Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say: "This is from Allah," to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby." (Surah Al-Baqarah, 2:79) "There is among them a section who distort the Book with their tongues: (As they read) you would think it is a part of the Book, but it is no part of the Book; and they say, "That is from Allah," but it is not from Allah: It is they who tell a lie against Allah, and (well) they know it!" (Surah Al-Imran, 3:78) "Willful ignorance", indeed! ------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
Posted By: Abu Loren
Date Posted: 31 July 2014 at 3:40am
| Ron I think you should stop right here and don't say another word! |
Posted By: Ron Webb
Date Posted: 01 August 2014 at 3:32pm
How is that even possible? The Quran didn't even exist when Judaism and Christianity were established. Everybody knows that the Torah was revealed to the Jews, the Gospel was revealed to the Christians, and the Quran was revealed to the Arabs.
That's as may be, but the fact is that you can't call yourself a Jew or a Christian if you believe in the Quran. It's nonsense to say that the Jews and the Christians have nothing to fear, if you then qualify it by saying, "oh, but only if they reject the core teachings of Judaism and Christianity and accept the teachings of the Quran." ------------- Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect. |
Posted By: thuwn
Date Posted: 01 August 2014 at 4:35pm
I opt for these: David Copperfield, Penn and Teller, Criss Angel, Lance Burton, and the latest in the list is Dynamo, and many others. At least I have seen what they capable of, not just stories after stories. |
Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 01 August 2014 at 5:45pm
Um dummy, the verse is referring to Jews and Christians in the time of the revelation of the Quran. It is stating that had they been true believers, they would have accepted the Quran. In fact, is several places, it refers to those Jews and Christians, who upon hearing the verses of the Quran, did indeed believe, because they recognized it as revelation from God:"And there are, certainly, among the People of the Book, those who believe in Allah, in the revelation to you, and in the revelation to them, bowing in humility to Allah: They will not sell the Signs of Allah for a miserable gain! For them is a reward with their Lord, and Allah is swift in account." (Surah Al-Imran, 3:199)
Again, we see your ignorance showing. The Quran states that the previous prophets were all Muslims, since they believed in Allah (Glorified and Exalted be He). Hence, the "Jews" and "Christians" (i.e. the followers of the previous prophets like Moses and Jesus) were all Muslims as well. ------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 01 August 2014 at 6:05pm
Greetings islamispeace, Strange then, don't you think, that never once, in any record, did any prophet refer to themselves or their followers as 'muslim'? Don't you suppose Yshwe would have called Himself muslim, not Jew? asalaam. ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 01 August 2014 at 10:14pm
A Muslim is anyone who submits himself to God. All of the prophets did that, the last time I checked, including Jesus (peace be upon him). The word "Muslim" is an Arabic word. I don't think the previous prophets spoke Arabic. Did you know that the previous prophets never mentioned, even in passing, the belief in the trinity? Don't you suppose that someone would have mentioned it? ------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 02 August 2014 at 9:54pm
Greetings islamispeace, It's in there. It is the mystery revealed through Yshwe(known as Jesus). asalaam and blessings. ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: Abu Loren
Date Posted: 03 August 2014 at 2:24am
No it's not. Go and re-read the Bible. ------------- La Ilaha IllAllah |
Posted By: Muslim75
Date Posted: 09 August 2014 at 10:25am
Dear poster,
Quoting the bible is inapropriate as the original book has been altered. Whatever people read in the bible today can not be related to the original, real bible. It is not so for the Holy Qur'an and the authentic hadiths. It has been preserved, as we all know. If you want a proof of it, ask the scholars about that.
In an authentic hadith in Bukhari, Muhammad says Isa shall return in the end of times amongst the muslims, but he will be under the leadership of Imam Mahdi. We know from that hadith that Imam Mahdi is superior to Jesus. Moreover, Jesus is not actually coming back on earth. Prophets have symbolic dimensions so that when a prophet is mentioned, his symbolism is mentioned. Jesus represents many things, among which life, prophethood, bliss, wandering, etc...(See Rumi, Ibn Arabi among others). Muhammad speaks according to the need of the people at the time of his speaking. What he said was meant for the people of his time, 1400 years ago. He could not explain it in another way. It was "complicated" to say something else, something which would cause confusion.
There is only Mahdi, Sultan. He is here now and owns the land and the people.
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Posted By: Power of GOD
Date Posted: 11 August 2014 at 12:16pm
If you have read the quran and the hadiths properly you will see it is not a patch near to to word of a god cause it permits adultary and murder and looting.
Quran says in Surah 17:32-34. "Nor come nigh to adultery: for it is a shameful (deed) and an evil, opening the road (to other evils). Nor take life - which Allah has made sacred - except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, we have given his heir authority (to demand qisas or to forgive): but let him nor exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the Law). Come not nigh to the orphan's property except to improve it, until he attains the age of full strength; and fulfil (every) engagement, for (every) engagement will be enquired into (on the Day of Reckoning)."
But in Quran itself you can find that adultery is permitted as we read in Surah 2:230. "So if a husband divorces his wife (irrevocably), He cannot, after that, re-marry her until after she has married another husband and He has divorced her. In that case there is no blame on either of them if they re-unite, provided they feel that they can keep the limits ordained by Allah. Such are the limits ordained by Allah, which He makes plain to those who understand." We see that Muhammad was willing to marry his adopted son's wife. So Allah permitted him by changing the rules as we read in Surah 33:50, "O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee; and daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts, who migrated (from Makka) with thee; and any believing woman who dedicates her soul to the Prophet if the Prophet wishes to wed her;- this only for thee, and not for the Believers (at large); We know what We have appointed for them as to their wives and the captives whom their right hands possess;- in order that there should be no difficulty for thee. And Allah is Oft- Forgiving, Most Merciful." Killing innocent people is permitted in Surah 4:89. They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks;- Quran tells us that Mary the mother of Jesus was sister of Aaron as we read in Surah 19:28. "O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste!" If we read further we can understand that it was spoken about Jesus' mother Mary Surah 19:34. Such (was) Jesus the son of Mary: (it is) a statement of truth, about which they (vainly) dispute, And Surah 66:12 says, "And Mary, daughter of Imran, whose body was chaste, therefore We breathed therein something of Our spirit. And she put faith in the words of her Lord and His Scriptures, and was of the obedient." This is jsut to show how laughable islamic noncence was I don't who was there so called scribe or thinker was of the quran.
Jesus Will Institute Islamic Law ALAH'S LAW OR WHAT IN THIS STATEMENT THE WRITER MAKE THE IMAM AND JESUS THAT NARATER IS INFERIOR TO MAHDI AND MUHAMMED SO IMAM AND JESUS ARE ABOVE allah so they will apear before allah this is just showing countless flaws in the quran and hadiths that prophets is above thier so called allah While the Mahdi, as the Caliph (vice-regent) and Imam (leader) of the Muslims is clearly seen as being a superior to Jesus, Jesus is still said to be a leader of the Muslim Community. According to the Islamic traditions, Jesus� primary purpose will be to oversee the institution and the enforcement of the Islamic Shariah law all over the world.
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Posted By: Power of GOD
Date Posted: 11 August 2014 at 1:44pm
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Islamic teaching is that all created things at an appointed time will be annihilated, and then resurrected for judgment before Allah. The exact date and time of this event, known as Yawm al-Qiyamah (literally Day of Resurrection), is known to Allah alone (Qur'an Surah 7:187, 31:34, 33:63), but the Qur'an says it will come suddenly (Surah 7:187; 12:107; 21:40; 22:55; 29:53; 39:55; 43:66; 47:18). Belief in the Last Days, in particular the Day of Judgment, is listed as the fifth Article of Faith in Islam, and therefore an essential element of the Islamic faith. All Muslims are expected to believe in it. Islam considers that all the prophets since the time of Noah have taught about the Qiyamah to their followers, but that Muhammad told his followers in much greater details about it. In particular, Muhammad said that the prophets have warned their followers about ad-Dajjal (Muslim version of the Antichrist, not to be confused with the Antichrist in the Bible). For example, we read in the hadiths:
Even though Muhammad speculated that some Muslim believers might live till the last days when ad-Dajjal appears, this was not to be the case. The hadiths recorded that Muhammad sometimes preached sermons on the Qiyamah for many hours. It is also said that the Companions of Muhammad also taught the hadiths to their children and instructed them to also teach their children. Thus, teachings about Qiyamah is something that is taught and passed down by Muslims from generation to generation, reflecting its importance in the Islamic faith. As such, many Muslims will be familiar with the teachings on Qiyamah, about the coming of al-Mahdi, about the coming of Isa (Islamic name for Jesus) and the coming of ad-Dajjal. Okay tell me how is it possible that you can believe that there is anti christ if Muhammad convinced muslim there is no Christ and his hilarious discription of the so called Dajjal he was a sick psycopath where did he came upon this.
He is blind in the left and the right eye make up your which eye muhammad.
Allah's Messenger made a mention of Dajjal in the presence of the people and said: Allah is not one-eyed and behold that Dajjal is blind of the right eye and his eye would be like a floating grape.
Allah's Messenger said: Dajjal is blind of left eye with thick hair and there would be a garden and fire with him and his fire would be a garden and his garden would be fire. He will travel at great speeds and his means of conveyance will be a giant mule� He will travel the entire world.� As strange as this is, it also bears a faint resemblance to Jesus the Messiah who also rode a donkey as he entered Jerusalem during the final week of his ministry.
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Posted By: Power of GOD
Date Posted: 11 August 2014 at 1:51pm
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The story of Dajjal as accepted by Muslims: You will find an array of humbug on Dajjal in one of the most popular Hadith sites, http://muttaqun.com/dajjal.html - What's most infuriating is the audacity of the storytellers to falsely involve the Quran and the Prophet (S) into it. You will find the heading on Dajjal that states "according to Quran and Sunnah." But scan the page for yourself and see if you can find a single word on Dajjal from the Quran. It's all from the deviations of the man-written Hadith. The myth of Masih-ad- Dajjal is a typical rhetorical drama for the purpose of making lectures interesting for spiritually (and otherwise) uneducated commoners who have no desire for the quest of Quranic knowledge nor are they interested in reflecting on Quranic contents for themselves. These folks take the spoon-fed lies of their clerics as law, regardless of its contradiction or non-conformity with the Quran. |
Posted By: Power of GOD
Date Posted: 11 August 2014 at 4:57pm
Beyond the evidence for the Bible's correctness (manuscript evidence) and its historicity (archeological evidence), the most important evidence is that of its inspiration. The real determination of the Bible's claim to absolute inspired truth is in its supernatural evidence, including prophecy. God used prophets to speak and write down His Word and God uses miracles like fulfilled prophecy to authenticate His messengers. For example, in Genesis 12:7, God promises that the land of Israel was to be for Abraham and his descendants. In 1948 Israel was returned back to the Jewish people for the second time in history. This may not seem so astonishing until you realize that no nation in the history of the world has been scattered from its homeland and returned! Israel has done it twice. The book of Daniel predicts with accuracy the coming of the four great kingdoms from Babylon, to Medo-Persia, to Greece, to Rome centuries before some of those kingdoms came on the scene (a time span of over 1,000 years!) with details concerning how they would rule and be broken. This includes the reigns of Alexander the Great and Antiochus Epiphanies.
In Ezekial 26 we can see in astonishing detail how the city of Tyre was to be destroyed, how it would be torn down, and how its debris would be thrown into the sea. When Alexander the Great marched on that area, he encountered a group of people holed up in a tower on an island off the coast near there. He could not cross the sea, so he could not fight those in the tower. Rather than wait them out, the proud conqueror had his army throw stones into the sea to build a land bridge to the tower. It worked. His army crossed the sea and overthrew the occupants of the stronghold. But where did he get so much stone? The rocks that were used for the land bridge were the leftover rubble from the city of Tyre . . . its stones cast into the sea! There are so many prophecies concerning Christ (over 270!) that it would take more than a few screens worth of space to list them all. Further, Jesus would have had no control over many of them such as His birthplace or time of birth. Second, the odds of one man accidentally fulfilling even 16 of these are 1 in 10^45. How many is that? For comparison, there are less than 10^82 atoms in the entire universe! And Jesus, who affirmed the Bible as the Word of God, proved His reliability and deity by His resurrection (an historical fact not easily ignored). The only prophecy that can relate muhammad in the bible is the false prophet and the beast which are thrown into hell.
The claim that the Qur'an is the word of God is, at this point, wholly unsupported. This is a claim that Muslims accept on blind faith. To a Muslim, such statements may seem both blasphemous and outrageous, but we must approach such things rationally. We cannot take a certain group on their word when it comes to the origins of their tribal folklore. To be fair, a Muslim would first have to prove that God, or Allah, actually exists before they can begin attributing books to Him or Her
"Some asked what need there was for God to take oaths like any mortal being, as when he swears by the fig and olive, and by Mount Sinai (95:1); by the declining day (103:1); and by the stars, the night and the dawn (81:15-18). Above all, they asked why the Almighty had to swear on himself why must God swear by himself it is ridiculous statements made by Muhammad.
According to Islamic tradition, Muhammad went from Mecca to Jerusalem, stopping at al-masjidul-aksa, or the al-Aksa Mosque. The problem is, the al-Aksa Mosque in Jerusalem was built roughly 46 years after the traditional time given for Muhammad's death. Therefore, in fact claiming that Muhammad paid a visit to this Mosque, one would have to conclude that the verse was an interpolation added into the text so who is fooling who this claims that the quran is not anything near God's word.
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Posted By: Laleh
Date Posted: 12 August 2014 at 10:26pm
Sorry Mr Ron, Muslims who are proficient in classical Arabic would not accept your argument. Any commentary or translation into English or any other language would be the commentary basically of the translator, which is not necessarily what is written in Arabic in the Quran. Until you can speak read and write classical Arabic all commentaries are a guideline and not necessarily "gospel" as some of you would put it. I would refer you to the scholars. ------------- 24:35...Light upon Light! Allah doth guide whom He will to His Light: Allah doth set forth Parables for men: and Allah doth know all things. |
Posted By: Muslim75
Date Posted: 13 August 2014 at 10:52am
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Dear poster who call yourself "Power of God",
First, it seems you do not really understand what the power of God is, so that is why you may call yourself as such. I can not call you as such and I suggest you change your user name as this is highly offensive.
I do not like to respond to you for you are insulting Islam and the prophet of Islam, Muhammad, the master of all nations, and the penultimate king. There are some things I would like to say to you, however.
I believe muslims have a greater right to Jesus than you. Christians say he was crucified and this crucifixion carries away the sins of all human beings. Jesus was not crucified, in our faith. It was his betrayer, Judas Iscariot who was made to look like Jesus and so they seized him and thinking it was Jesus. Judas Iscariot kept telling them he was not Jesus but they crucified him anyway, while Jesus was raised to the heavens. You find the story in "the Book of Deceits", an ancient book translated into french by the late Rene Khawam. Muslims have tremendous love for Jesus, who, once, lying down on the ground with his head resting on a rock, suddenly threw the rock away saying: "this is the lower world" (story of Imam Ghazzali). The Qur'an says "sister of Harun". The tafsir (commentary of the Qur'an) of Suyuti says she is a descendant of Harun. What christians need to do is to recognize the prophethood, the holiness and the heavenliness of Muhammad (saw). They accept Jesus, and so they must now accept Muhammad (saw). This is fundamental. The jews accept Moses. They must accept Jesus. Then they must accept Muhammad (saw). It is fundamental.
The Qur'an is not a book to be understood as it is read. Rather, only select people, people of knowledge understand the Qur'an. The question is who are the knowledgeable men (Ulama). The Qur'an is not meant for literal reading and understanding. So also are the hadiths. Of course there are verses and hadiths the meaning of which are obvious. That is something else. As to the bible that is read today, it is unauthentic. It is not the bible, the Injil that was revealed to Jesus; for the Injil was revealed to Jesus. A word of God, not Jesus, revealed to Jesus who is the spirit of Allah and His word (Imam Jazuli). Moses is the interlocutor of Allah and His confident. Muhammad (saw) is the beloved of Allah and His intimate. The Qur'an is Allah's ancient word, meaning it was not written at one point of time, it existed before eternity.
What I said to you in my previous post is what I maintain. Jesus is not coming back. If you have another belief, it will fail you. Muslim scholars for long have exalted the eminence of Al Mahdi. Muhammad (saw) spoke in a context and in a specific time period. He says whatever he says accordingly. Muhammad (saw) and the prophets were sent as teachers. (Imam Ghazzali). For example, Muhammad's frowning and turning away from Ibn Umm Maktum, as the Qur'an mentions (Surah 80) is teaching. Jesus knew who would betray him but he was teaching. Prophets are teachers.
You may re-read my previous post. Al Mahdi, Sultan, is here. He owns the land and the people.
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Posted By: Abu Loren
Date Posted: 13 August 2014 at 2:44pm
What a simpleton you are. We went through most of what you wrote in other threads so do a 'search' and you will find all the answers. This is what happens on this forum, Christians join this forum one after the other making the same old tired arguments and we have to repeat the answers, it gets tiring after a while. ------------- La Ilaha IllAllah |
Posted By: Abu Loren
Date Posted: 13 August 2014 at 2:46pm
So as it was NOT as you've imagined the Dajjal to be then it's wrong is it? ------------- La Ilaha IllAllah |
Posted By: Abu Loren
Date Posted: 13 August 2014 at 2:47pm
So you know all about the Anti-Christ? Do enlighten us. ------------- La Ilaha IllAllah |
Posted By: Abu Loren
Date Posted: 13 August 2014 at 2:58pm
You can have your biased view and you are welcome to it. The Bible has been corrupted by human hands. With regard to Masjid Al Aqsa it is the sight where Prophet Ibrahim (Alayhi Salaam) was supposed to sacrifice his son Prophet Ishmael (Alayhi Salaam). Prophet Ibrahim (Alayhi Salaam) built a masjid on the sight (He and Prophet Ishmael (Alayhi Salaam) built Masjid Al Haram in Mecca forty years before). You are probably thinking 'oh wait a minute this has always been the Temple of Solomon'. If you thinking that then you are WRONG. Prophet Sulaiman (Alayhi Salaam) built or rather modified the existing masjid which was extended and made grand. I don't know if you know but I will tell you anyway. In AD 70 the Romans under General Titus Andronicus totally destroyed the Temple. So what the Muslims did was to build Masjid Al Aqsa on the sight. BTW did you know that ALL the Prophets of God Almighty were Muslims? ------------- La Ilaha IllAllah |
Posted By: Ron Webb
Date Posted: 14 August 2014 at 8:17pm
And I would refer you to the Quran, as I quoted it in http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=30315&PID=187476#187476 - my first post on this topic. Verse 5:69 clearly says that Jews and Christians shall have no fear nor shall they grieve. Verse 3:85 clearly says that no religion except Islam shall be accepted. There are no translation issues here, and no scholar or commentary can explain away the obvious contradiction. ------------- Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect. |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 14 August 2014 at 8:39pm
Hi Ron, abrogation... and 5 was revealed after 3, so the people of the Book should be in the clear it seems. ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 14 August 2014 at 8:48pm
You can keep telling yourself that, but you were very clearly refuted. Fake sheiks can give themselves authority to interpret the Quran, but no one will take them seriously!------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 15 August 2014 at 1:08pm
Oh, it seems we have another fake Sheik who has no idea what she is talking about! Since you think that a later surah somehow always "abrogates" an earlier surah, perhaps you should consider that Surah Al-Maeda (surah 5) also states: "This day have those who reject faith given up all hope of your religion: yet fear them not but fear Me. This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. But if any is forced by hunger, with no inclination to transgression, Allah is indeed Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful." (5:3) This is in addition to the other verses in Surah Al-Maeda which heavily criticize Jews and Christians for their deviant beliefs. But, I know. Facts seem to go in one ear and out the other with you. And by the way, here is another example of your NT "witnesses" not being able to agree with each other: "Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, �Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?� 17 �Why do you ask me about what is good?� Jesus replied. �There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.�" (Matthew 19:16-17) So, follow the commandments and you will have eternal life! No need to accept Jesus as your "savior" etc. Sounds simple, no? Oh, but wait! "If you declare with your mouth, �Jesus is Lord,� and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." (Romans 10:9) I guess Paul (or whoever wrote the letter to the Romans) didn't get the memo... ------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 15 August 2014 at 2:18pm
Greetings islamispeace, You just summed up the reason I put no faith in islam. How is a muslim supposed to know what to follow with such a mixture of messages? There is no one message from the Creator but a continually changed message, as meets the changing thoughts of the very human bringer of the message. asalaam, Caringheart ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 15 August 2014 at 2:24pm
as regards this; Yes, precisely... If you declare belief in Yshwe and believe in Him with your heart, you will be lead to follow the commandments given by the Father, the Creator. Yes, confessing Yshwe saves. Yshwe leads to salvation. asalaam. ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 15 August 2014 at 2:50pm
In one ear and out the other. Thank you for illustrating my point!If you had bothered to read my previous posts to Ron, you would see that I have already explained what verses like 5:32 actually mean. There is no "mixture of messages". You're confusing your Bible, which has hundreds of contradictory verses, with the Quran. ------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 15 August 2014 at 2:55pm
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Greetings islamispeace, I am not following your extremely long conversation with Ron. I am merely replying to what you posted to me. asalaam. ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 15 August 2014 at 3:01pm
Typical circular reasoning...the hallmark of Christian apologists...  You should have read the next few verses Matthew 19 before opening your mouth! Come on, do some work! I can't do it all for you! You see, when Jesus (peace be upon him) said "keep all the commandments", the man asked him to clarify. Here is what Jesus said: "Jesus replied, ��You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,� "#fen-NIV-23782c" - c ]">[ https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew+19&version=NIV#fen-NIV-23782c - c ] and �love your neighbor as yourself.� "#fen-NIV-23782d" - d ]">[ https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew+19&version=NIV#fen-NIV-23782d - d ]� 20 �All these I have kept,� the young man said. �What do I still lack?� 21 Jesus answered, �If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.�" (Matthew 19:18-21) I guess you didn't get the memo either! ------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 15 August 2014 at 3:03pm
Then it's probably better that you stay out of the conversation. If you are too lazy to read the issues that have already been discussed and yet bring up the same issues later on, that is your problem. ------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 15 August 2014 at 6:10pm
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Greetings islamispeace, It is because it is so repetitive that I am not reading but simply scanning. and, as I said, 'You summed up the reason I put no faith in islam. ' asalaam. ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 15 August 2014 at 6:32pm
I know, I know. You have to make excuses when you are stuck in a conundrum. The Bible is full of a "mixture of messages", wouldn't you agree? Follow the commandments in order to be saved. Which commandments? Well, it depends on who you ask! ------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 15 August 2014 at 6:38pm
Greetings islamispeace, I understand, that you can not understand... you have not studied the Christian scriptures, and you have to know what Yshwe said if you are to understand. 18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things? 19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. 20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? 21 But He spake of the temple of his body. 22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said. ----------------------- 7 Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter. ----------------------- 4 But these things have I told you, that when the time shall come, ye may remember that I told you of them. And these things I said not unto you at the beginning, because I was with you. 5 But now I go my way to him that sent me; and none of you asketh me, Whither goest thou? 6 But because I have said these things unto you, sorrow hath filled your heart. 7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on me; 12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. 13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify Me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 16 A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father. 17 Then said some of his disciples among themselves, What is this that he saith unto us, A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me: and, Because I go to the Father? 18 They said therefore, What is this that he saith, A little while? we cannot tell what he saith. 19 Now Jesus knew that they were desirous to ask him, and said unto them, Do ye enquire among yourselves of that I said, A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me? 20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, That ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy. 22 And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you. 25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father. 26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you: 27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God. 28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father. 29 His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb. 30 Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God. 31 Jesus answered them, Do ye now believe? 32 Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me. Peace and blessings to you, Caringheart ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 15 August 2014 at 6:50pm
Oh, I understand just fine. I understand that you Christians have been brain-washed and that no amount of reasoning with you will get you to accept what it right before your eyes. I notice that you again ignored what Jesus said in Matthew 19 about the commandments. Why is that? Why is it that when the man asked Jesus what he needed to do to be saved, Jesus said nothing about believing that he was "Lord"? Why did he say nothing about his redemptive death? Was he unaware of his impending death? Was he unaware of his mission? Why does Matthew 19 so clearly contradict other passages of the Bible? Why is it that the Bible has a "mixture of messages"? ------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 15 August 2014 at 10:50pm
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*sigh I guess you skipped reading all that I shared. The Bible is the testimony of many witnesses. Each reported what they felt important to share. It is not the testimony of one man who kept changing the message. ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: iec786
Date Posted: 13 September 2014 at 10:37am
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hi Caringheart,
so the Bible is not God's written book. iec |
Posted By: Muslim75
Date Posted: 22 November 2014 at 2:32am
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Posted By: kingskid
Date Posted: 23 November 2014 at 5:58pm
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Muslim75 you wrote: Who said that Jesus will come back as a saviour ? Jesus praised and honored Muhammad (salla Lahu alayhi wa alihi wa
sallam) on the occasion of the Night Journey. Jesus reveres Muhammad who
is the king of the prophets, as Sufi saintly knowledge teaches. As such
Jesus will not lead the nation of Muhammad (salla Lahu alayhi wa alihi
wa sallam). That is a priviledge of the successors of Muhammad, or of
Muhammad himself, in all logic. You say Muhammad left this world, but I
say Muhammad and the prophets are beyond the limits of time and space.
That is basic logic and basic knowledge of the stories of the prophets. Yeshua will not come back again to die. He died once and for all for the sins of mankind. Romans 6:10, "The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God. [NIV, emphasis added] Yeshua will return as the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, not as a saviour all over again: "They will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings�and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.�[Rev. 17:14, NIV] ------------- kingskid |
Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 24 November 2014 at 1:06pm
Amigo, sorry to enter late, but here is my response as a Muslim to your question. If Jesus appears today, of course that will be up to Allah to decide where, when or if, here is what Quran says. According to the Quran this is his message: " And [mention] the Day He will gather them and that which they worship besides Allah and will say, "Did you mislead these, My servants, or did they [themselves] stray from the way? They will say: "Glory to Thee! not meet was it for us that we should take for protectors others besides Thee: But Thou didst bestow, on them and their fathers, good things (in life), until they forgot the Message: for they were a people (worthless and) lost. (Allah will say): "Now have they proved you liars in what ye say: so ye cannot avert (your penalty) nor (get) help." And whoever among you does wrong, him shall We cause to taste of a grievous Penalty."25:17-19 "And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden." 5:116 Jesus, if appear today will not say anything different than what he has said before: Worship and serve God, my God and your God, for God is greater than I. A Muslim is the only one that does just that, submit his/her whole self to serve and worship God! Hasan ------------- The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62 |
Posted By: joel
Date Posted: 26 November 2014 at 9:07am
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Honeto,
We love the Lord with all our Heart,Mind,Soul and Strength. That�s more complete than what the quran says.(matthew 22:37, mark 12:30) Not that I am substantiating the quranic claims, but Christ could say to God the Father I never said to worship Mary, because Mary is not a person of the ONE GOD trinity. That verse is part of a set of verses which prove when the quran says desist from saying trinity , IT (quran) is talking about a trinity which includes Mary not the Christian trinity!!! The Father is in control of some knowledge he hasn�t revealed to the son, but in eph 1:22 and in 1 cor 15:27 we see that at first and in the future all will be below the Son and Father(son first,then Father and Son). That�s why their oneness can be described as EQUAL in John 5:18. |
Posted By: NABA
Date Posted: 27 November 2014 at 5:48am
| Allah says in ch 43 v 61 of Quran that return of Jesus christ (pbuh) will be one of the signs of hereafter.our saviour is only n only Allah the one, the eternal, who is neither born nor give birth, there is nothing like him. |
Posted By: joel
Date Posted: 28 November 2014 at 2:02am
Yeshua(jesus) was born by the Holy Spirit because although a man ,He was from ALL ETERNITY, That is why He said in John 8:58 before Abraham was born I AM(the holy name of God), which also shows why the Jews picked up stones to try and KILL him because it is blasphemous to call ones self the eternal God in Jewish and of course Christian(same source,the torah) law. That kind of blasphemy is subject to death by stoning. When Jews pick up stones there aren�t too many things worthy of death, but in this case it had to be because he was blaspheming God, although Christians know he WASN�T. Also read Hebrews 1:1-9 and ask yourself how could he have come into existence in 0 A.D.,4000 years after the creation of Earth if as the Hebrews verse says �He created the universe�. |
Posted By: Muslim75
Date Posted: 29 November 2014 at 3:33am
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Posted By: Muslim75
Date Posted: 29 November 2014 at 3:35am
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Posted By: Muslim75
Date Posted: 29 November 2014 at 3:47am
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Posted By: Muslim75
Date Posted: 29 November 2014 at 3:50am
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Posted By: Muslim75
Date Posted: 29 November 2014 at 3:57am
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Posted By: NABA
Date Posted: 29 November 2014 at 10:37pm
| Jesus christ (pbuh) never claimed divinity. |
Posted By: kingskid
Date Posted: 30 November 2014 at 2:38pm
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Naba wrote: Jesus christ (pbuh) never claimed divinity. Yes He did, Naba. There are other scriptures which you can research yourself (try https://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/), but the ones below are so clear that you have to either believe what Jesus said or believe Him to be a liar or megalomaniac: John 10:30, "I and the Father are one.� (NIV, emphasis added) John 14:9, Jesus answered: �Don�t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, �Show us the Father�? (NIV, emphasis added) ------------- kingskid |
Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 30 November 2014 at 3:23pm
AssalamAlykum, is there an authentic reference to that claim? Hasan ------------- The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62 |
Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 30 November 2014 at 3:34pm
Dear Joel, blind love exists, but it brings blind results. People, particularly kids love Santa Claus, Fairies, Unicorns, sometimes innocently very deeply. Strong love for driving would not get one to a desired destination, a map, reading and understanding it will be needed to complete the effort. Hasan ------------- The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62 |
Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 01 December 2014 at 10:17am
Muslims always wanted to make Yeshua a second hand prophet and denies the that Yeshua is the son of of God but in any there will be no imam coming in the future it is all an islamic lie to copy cat the second coming of Yeshua and delete Christ.
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Posted By: joel
Date Posted: 04 December 2014 at 3:59am
Mohammed may have existed from the time of Adam (don�t know where u get that), but he is still not the King of Kings, Lord of Lords, and creator of ALL!! What did you mean by �breaking of crosses and slaying the antichrist�? I assume you mean slaying Christians. So you are saying I can�t know a God who created man in his own image, thus sends his Son in that image to reveal what he would be like in human terms, the only terms a HUMAN can understand, then you are calling God monstrous for revealing himself via something that is already in his image?? And yes ,I too know you got that verse about monstrous from the al-quran. I think caringheart�s comments about mohammed merely defending that which HE wrote by himself would apply here as well when the quran denounces that God can have a Son. Lastly the Holy Spirit intercedes for US so that God�s will be done so most definitely I know God (romans 8:27). honeto, I understand perfection in God�s truth takes time, but Christ did say the secrets of the kingdom of heaven have been revealed to you. The �you� were disciples who hadn�t been with Christ very long, so I think the basic road blocks are automatically given, also Christ compared FAITH, the most basic road block, to that which a child has. He said you have to have faith in HIM like a child believes his parents or God almost blindly, probably because there are lots of deceivers out there. However, in your case it may just be that you haven�t read the gospels and believed upon the miracles of Christ. Did you want ME to authenticate MY claims? Or muslim75? |
Posted By: Peace maker
Date Posted: 07 December 2014 at 10:57pm
Its not the Jews or the Christians that said it its God himself now the Quran contradict what God said Quran's description is erroneous to blame the jews and the christians it is not monstruous God said it himself.
And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid. And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid. And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only.
Matthew 17:1-8 Jesus identified himself as the sustenance man needs to survive to be preserved from death. He used the scripture reference on the Devil himself when he was tempting him to eat and prove he was actually the Son of God. John 6:51: �I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever;� Matt 4:3-4: �Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, �If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.� But He answered and said, �It is written, 'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.'�
Matt 3:16 -17
As soon as Jesus was baptized he went up out of the water. At that moment the heaven was opened and he saw the spirit of God descending like a dove and alightning on him.And A voice from heaven said
This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.
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Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 09 December 2014 at 11:21am
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. 8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father? 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. (as recorded in the book of John) ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: honeto
Date Posted: 11 December 2014 at 2:14pm
Joel, the simple truth is that Jesus, may God's peace be upon him was a man. Born without a father but only with a mother, for us a great miracle for God nothing difficult. Adam's example, no mother no father, difficult for us thus a miracle, for God nothing at all. Jesus, in his own words never claimed to be God, yes I have read all the Bible, nowhere I read Jesus saying; " listen O Israel I am your God, worship me". nowhere. On the contrary I read he said: " for my father is greater than I". I also read he said: " I can of myself do nothing". " why you call me good, there is only one who is good that is God." And here is my favorite one: " I am returning to my father and your father, to my God and your God" Don't turn your back on truth just because. God only accepts truth. Hasan ------------- The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62 |