Do shia believe in present Quran
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Topic: Do shia believe in present Quran
Posted By: Fatah-Momin
Subject: Do shia believe in present Quran
Date Posted: 04 November 2005 at 3:21pm
| This is a major issue that I have come across too, When ever I discussed it with shia they claim to believe in the Qur'an on further probe they start pointing at abbrogation as alteration in Qur'an. Further enquiry with the same shia resulted in to a revelation, that Quran is not the last testement of Allah. Another book was revealed by Allah, which further elaborated on what was revealed in Quran. |
Replies:
Posted By: Deus
Date Posted: 04 November 2005 at 4:09pm
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There are many sects within Shi'ism itself, but the mainstream Shii belief is they use the same Quran as Sunnis, though they interpret many verses differently (political differences on the most part). [For the sake of citing a reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiism - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiism ] |
Posted By: Fatah-Momin
Date Posted: 04 November 2005 at 11:19pm
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Deus Political differences were not brought up by shia during the whole conversation, they insist that Qur'an was altered [naouzobillah] which necessiated burnning of the manuscripts by Hz. Uthman[ra], from the time of Nabi Allah[saw] |
Posted By: Deus
Date Posted: 05 November 2005 at 12:14am
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It is true that there were some variations in the Qurans present at the time of Uthman, but no sources mention anything about Shii ideas being burnt. Shiism didn't even exist back then. Am I right? |
Posted By: Fatah-Momin
Date Posted: 05 November 2005 at 1:35am
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Yes you are rite that shi did not exist at that time but what shia further claim that after departure of Nabi Allah[saw] almost all the companions[ra] other than 5 or 6 turned apostate[naouzobillah]. They altered the quran to deprive Hz. Ali [ra] his rights of successorship to Nabi Allah[saw]. Further there was no variation in Quran, there were some foot notes that were added to different manuscript by the companions to better understand the context of Aya and suras, which were removed. As the bounderies of muslim dominance exceeded Arabic speaking areas, the pronounciation of the words of Quran varied from area to area, which would have caused altering of the meaning of the words in future. Hz. Uthman [ra] standardized the the Quran in Quraish dialect, the arabic dialect of the Nabi Allah[saw] and burned all the manuscript with variation of different dialects. This does not mean that Quran was altered at all. it means that it was standardized in the dialect it was revealed in to start with. |
Posted By: Ayubi1187
Date Posted: 07 November 2005 at 6:05am
| Even if todays shia dont believe any more that the quran was altered they still have not rejected the people who held this believe. Not only that they follow this heretics and some of there writings is encouraged to learn in shiism. Its double standard by shia to say we dont believe the quran was altered and in the same time follow,love and praise them. |
Posted By: Fatah-Momin
Date Posted: 07 November 2005 at 8:30pm
| Very true I have come across many claims by shia scholars who say that this book is a altered book and much of the material was taken out as it praised and raised the status of Hz. Ali[ra]. |
Posted By: Fatah-Momin
Date Posted: 10 November 2005 at 8:21pm
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Beliefs of Shia about the present Qur'an 1 Mi ibne lbrahim~-Qiimmi relates from Ab a Zar'e Ghaffari that the Holy Prophet, in conunenting on the verse "Yauma Tabyazzat wojoohohum", said: On the Resurrection Day my people will come to me under five different standards and I will ask the group under each standard about what they have done with the Two Precious Legacies which I left among you, ie. The Thaqalain? The people under the first standard will reply, "Of the two precious things which you left behind, the greater one we have distorted and thrown behind our backs and ignored, and the lesser one we opposed or hated" The group under the second standard will reply, "Of the Two Pre~ious Ones, the greater (the Qur'an) we distorted and tore to pieces and went against it, and the lesser one we opposed and waged war against it" |
Posted By: Fatah-Momin
Date Posted: 12 November 2005 at 10:26pm
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The Shi'a & Qur'an One of the major "Battle Fields" between Muslims & Shi'ites is the later's belief regarding the authenticity of the Holy Qur'an which Allah [swt] promised to guard till the Day of Reckoning from any changes, saying: 15:9. "We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption)". Disbelieving to the contrary leads to the denial of the entire Qur'an and abolishing the Shari'ah which is based on it mainly because, such belief puts every single verse under the probability of being distorted, and under such a probability no faith can be founded because faith cannot be established on probabilities, but on certainty. As for the Shi'ites, they have a different views on the matter as we shall discover. (1) What is the generally accepted Shi'ites view on the authenticity of the Qur'an? The Shi'a, like the Muslims, believe that the Qur'an is the Words of Allah [swt]. However, unlike Muslims, they believe the distortion occured in the Qur'anic text as it occured in the past scriptures. Their authentic books contain over 2000 narration from their "INFALLIBLE" Imams verifying, affirming and confirming their theory of "Tahreef" (Distortion). To date, we are not aware of any Shi'a scholar who denies this theory in a whole and/or in part. To ascertain of this fact, we invite those who are unaware of this matter, Muslims or Shi'ites, to check and verify on their own, the sources contained herein. To illustrate, we will break the evidence into four catagories: 1. Statements from Shi'a scholars regarding the Tahreef, 2. Narration from the "INFALLIBLE" Imams, 3. Distortion of the meaning. 4. Examples of such distortions. A. SCHOLARLY STATEMENTS: In the earliest Shi'i Tafaseer, which is the source and base for all Tafseer books, al-Qummi clearly states the belief of the Shi'ites regarding the authenticity of the Book of Allah saying: "Therefore, part of the Qur'an is an Abrogator and Abrogated, part is clear (Muhkam) and part is ambiguous (Mutashabih), part is in the general context, and part is particularized, part of it was placed forward and part is placed in the rear, part of it is severed and part of is connected, part of it is a letter in a place of another, and part of it is contrary to the manner revealed by Allah" Tafseer al-Qummi, Introduction, vol.1, p.17 The said "august" Tafseer book was commended by the majority Shi'i scholars and, as Sayyid Tayyib Musawi al-Jaza'iri, wrote in its "Introduction": "First: This Tafseer is the base of so many other Tafseer books. Second: The narration contained therein are from the two Sadiqs [as] (Imam Abu Ja'far & Imam Abu Abdallah) with the least medium of narrators, hence, author of al-Thari'ah (ila Tasaanif Ash-Shi'a: Agha Buzurg At-Tahrani) said: "In fact, it is the Tafseer of the two Sadiqs [as]". Third: The author lived during the era of Imam al-Hasan al-'Askari [as]. Fourth: His father, who reported these narration to his son, was a companion of Imam Rida [as]. Fifth: (the book) Contains a wealth of knowledge on the virtues of Ahlul-Bayt [as] of which their enemies attempted to remove from the Holy Qur'an". Sixth: (the book) Took care of clearing the meaning of so many misunderstood verses only through the guidance of Ahlul-Bayt, the Qur'an reciters". The very next Tafseer which is another pillar in Shi'asm is Tafseer al-Ayyashi, who was one of al-Kash-shi's Sheikhs, and in the same rank of Thiqatul-Islam al-Kulayni, as ranked by At-Tahrani in his al-Thari'ah vol4, p.295. Al-Ayashi wrote in the "introduction" of his Tafseer, quoting the "Infallible" Abu Ja'far: "Narrated Maysar from Abu Ja'far [as]: If it wasn't for the adding and deleting in the Book of Allah, our right (in Imamah - leadership) would've been clear for anyone with a sound mind". Tafseer al-Ayyashi, Muhammad bin Mas'oud al-Ayyashi, Introduction al-Bahrani wrote in his Tafseer al-Burhaan: Know, that the truth which there is no way around it, because of the multi-narrations (mutawatir) and other, is that the Qur'an which we have in our hands today, has suffered some changes after the Messenger of Allah [pbuh]. That those who collected it after him, have dropped and deleted many words and verses, and that the protected Qur'an from such changes and agreeable to the revelation of Allah Ta'ala is the one which was collected by Ali [as] and guarded until it reached his son al-Hasan [as] and so on until it ended in the possession of al-Qa'im (Mahdi) [as] who has it with him today. Therefore, and in accordance to a clear narration which we will soon mention, when Allah the Exalted knew, in His perfect pre knowledge, that such evil deeds will be perpetrated by those who mischief in Religion, that whenever they see a clear declaration against their interests but beneficial to him (Ali) and his purified offspring [as], they will drop it immediately or distort it by changing. When it was of His perfect Will and comprehensive Subtle, to guard the issue of al-Imamah and Walayah, and to protect the aspects of the virtues of him [pbuh] and the Imams [as] in a manner that will be safe from the mess of the people of wasting and distorting, but at the same time, keeps to the people of truth the (hidden) meaning and maintain the charge, He did not contend only with what was clear in His Glorious Book, but made the overwhelming majority of such declarations in accordance with the inner meanings and exegetic methods but within the frame of what the outer revelation leads to. He further alluded to many of the proofs by way of signaling and expression of signs and allegories, thus His proofs on the creation is established even after its dropping by those who dropped them after they were clear in the best manner. ........ It is very clear and obvious to me in conclusion, the truthfulness of this theory (i.e the distortion of the Qur'an) after all the research and examination of the evidences to the point we can say it is part of the necessary beliefs of the Shi'ite Madhhab, and that it is one of the major consequences of usurping the Khilafah, so contemplate on it" al-Burhaan fee Tafseer al-Qur'an: Sayyid Hashim At-Tubari al-Bahrani, Introduction: the second premise, volume 1, p.36, last paragraph, p. 49. (2) Before continuing any further, some Shi'ites deny they ever believed in the theory of Tahreef, and strongly condemn it. Further, they have an evidence that some of their scholars also condemned this awful belief. How do you respond to them? It is hard to imagine a single Shi'ite who does not believe that the Qur'an has been distorted by the Companions of the Messenger of Allah [saw], unless such a person is a newly made Shi'ite. Like all the ancient mysteries, the Shi'ites gradually present the fine secrets of their faith to the candidate and in accordance to their reception's ability. On the other hand, when their belief became exposed to the Muslims, and the Shi'a were rejected as the body rejects waste, some of their Rabbis met to discuss and find away out of this delimma, agreed to conceal their true beliefs, and to clad their religion the garment of Taqiyyah to deceive the Muslims. The very first Rabbi who denied the Distortion theory was Ibn Babawaih al-Qummi, whome the Shi'ites called As-Sadooq (the Truthful)- died 381h -. Nevertheless, while the pros supported their stand with over 2000 evidence, as Rabbi Ni'matallah al-Jaza'iri stated, he did not produce a single narrartion from their "Infallible" Imams that proves the contrary. Let us examine what he wrote: "Our belief is that the Qur'an which Allah the Exalted sent to His Messenger Muhammad [pbuh] is what in between the two boards, and is what the people have in their hands, no more than that. Its total chapters for the people (i.e, the Muslims) is one hundred and forteen chapters, and to us (i.e, the Shi'ites) the chapters of "Ad-Duhaa" (93) and "Alam Nashrah" (94) is one chapter, and chapters "Li Eelaaf" (106) and "Alam Tara Kayfa" (105) are one chapter. He whom attributes to us the say that we believe there is more than that, is a liar. The narrations reported in the rewards for reading every chapter of the Qur'an, the reward for reading the entire Qur'an, the permissibility to read two chapters in a single Rik'ah, the outlawing of reading two Sura in a single rak'ah of Fard (salat) testifies to our claim regarding the Qur'an, i.e, the extent of it is what the people have in their hands. Furthermore, the narrations outlawing the recitation of the entire Qur'an in a single night, that such endeavor should not be in less than three days is a further testimony to our claim" al-I'tiqaadaat: Ibn Babawaih al-Qummi, Iran 1224 ed. |
Posted By: Fatah-Momin
Date Posted: 12 November 2005 at 10:33pm
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The Beliefs of the Shi'ites about the Present Quran Jabir reported that he heard Imam Baqir saying: 'No one can claim that he has compiled the Quran as Allah revealed except a liar. The only person to compile it and memorise it according to its revelation was Ali ibn Abi Talib and the Imams who succeeded him. (Usul Kafi: 1:228) A man said that someone was reciting the Quran in the company of Imam Ja'far. The narrator said that he heard certain verses in the recitation which were not according to the recitation of the people. Imam Ja'far told the person reciting: 'Do not recite like this. Recite as the people recite until the (promised) Mahdi arrives. When the Mahdi arrives, he will recite the Quran according to its original revelation and the Qu,ran compiled by Ali will be brought forward. (Ibid: 2.622) Allah says in Surah Ale Imraan (32): "Certainly Allah has chosen Adam, Noah, the family of Abraham and the family of Imraan above the (families of the) worlds." Allamah Ali ibn Ibrahim AI-Qummi - one of the early Shi'ite commentators of the Quran said concerning this verse: 'The Imam said: 'The words: "The family of Muhammed" were also revealed along with "the family of Ale Imraan." They (referring to the Companions of the Prophet S.A.W.) removed the words "The family of Muhammad" from the original text (Al-Qummi's commentary:308). The allegation of removing the words preempts any possibility of abrogation. It is clear that the commentary is accusing the Companions of the Prophet (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) of distorting the Quran. Allah says in Surah Taha (115): \ "And We had given Adam an order before, but he forgot and We did not find any resolve in him (to disobey the order)." Imam Ja'far is reported to have said that Allah had revealed this verse with the following words: "We had ordered Adam before with some words about Muhammad, Ali, Fatima, Hassan, Hussain and the Imams from their offspring but he (Adam) forgot." Ja'far said: 'By Allah, these were the words which were revealed to Muhammad.' (Usul Kafi: 1:416 and the footnotes of Maqbool's translation: 637) Allah says in Surah Yusuf (49): "Then a year will come in which people will be given abundant help and they will press grapes." In AI-Qummi's commentary it is reported from Imam Ja'far that someone recited this verse in the presence of Ali. Ali said: 'What will they press'? Wine?' The person asked how he should read the verse. Ali replied that the verse was revealed thus: "Then a year will come in which people will he given abundant help and in which they will be given abundant rain. (Al-Qummi's commentary: 192) The word Ya'siroon in the present Quran is in the active voice. According to this commentary it should have been read in the passive voice as Yu'saroon to alter the meaning. In the footnotes to the translation of Maqbool, it is written that this word (Ya'siroon) was changed from the passive voice to the active to suit the fancies of wine-loving khulafa (rulers). (Maqbool's translation: 479) Allah says in Surah Muhammad (9): "That is because they resented what Allah revealed, so Allah in turn cancelled their deeds." AI-Qummi has stated that Imam Muhammad Baqir said that Jibreel had transmitted this verse as: 'That is because they resented what Allah revealed about Ali.' But then the apostates removed Ali's name (from the Quran). (Ibid: 1011) Allah says in Surah Waqi'ah (29): "And the Companions of the Right Hand. What about the Companions of the Right Hand. They shall be among thornless lote-trees and under clusters of bananas." One person recited this verse in the presence of Ali. Ali said that the word Talh is not.appropriate and should read Tal'a as in Surah Shu'araa (.........). Some enquired as why the word should not be changed. Ali replied that it was not the right time to do so because correcting the Quran would only confuse common people. He went on to say that among the Imams, only Imam Mahdi will have the right to reintroduce the Quran as it was during the time of the prophet (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam). (Ibid: 1067) Abu Mansur Ahmed Tibrisi, a prominent Shi'ite scholar of the 8th century (H), has written: 'Enumerating the distortions and omissions of this sort (from the present Quran) would become laborious and it will disclose what Taqiyyah (Shi'ite practice to conceal the 'truth' for religious purposes) requires me not to disclose: the good qualities of Allah's friends and the vices of His enemies. (AI-Ihtijaj by Tibrisi: 1:254) Mullah Muhsin Kashani, an 11th century Shi'ite scholar comments on the above quoted statement: 'It is clear from all of these traditions and quotations from the Family of the Prophet (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) that the present Quran is not the complete Quran which was revealed to the Prophet (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam). In fact, there are verses that contradict that which was revealed; verses that have been distorted and places where omissions have been made such as the names of Ali, the Family of Muhammad (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) and, on several occasions, there were the names of the hypocrites. Moreover, the present order of the Quran is not according to the preferred order of Allah and His Messenger. Ali ibn Ibrahim (a renowned commentator) also holds this opinion.' (Tafseer of Saafi: l:32) |
Posted By: Fatah-Momin
Date Posted: 14 November 2005 at 11:23pm
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Please find below some of the shia belilefs direct from shia sources:
http://www.balagh.net/english/ahl_bayt/fatima_the_gracious/17.htm - http://www.balagh.net/english/ahl_bayt/fat...gracious/17.htm Actually, Fatima lived seventy-five days after the Prophet's death; when she was intensely depressed, Gabriel would visit and condole her on the Prophet's death. He would cheer her up by mentioning the good situation her father was enjoying, and tell her what would come to pass after her death. Imam Ali (A.S.) wrote what Gabriel said, and this is Fatima's book. It continues to argue: There remains a need for an explanation of what is meant by "It was revealed to her." This explanation can be derived from the Quranic verses that revelation is not confined to prophets; but rather Allah, the Exalted, reveals to some chosen people as mentioned in the following verses: A. "So Zakariya came out to his people from his chamber; told them by signs to celebrate God's praises in the morning and in the evening." (19: 11) B. "So He completed them as seven firmaments in two days, and (92) He assigned to each Heaven its duty and command." (41: 12) C. 'And behold! 1 inspired the Disciples to have faith in Me and Mine Apostle." (5: 114) D. "Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): '1 am with you; give firmness to the Believers." (8: 12) E. "And thy Lord taught the bee to build its cells in hills." (16: 68) F. "So we sent this inspiration to the mother of Moses: 'Suckle (thy child)." (28: 7) G. "And indeed We conferred a favor on thee another time (before)" (20: 38) Moreover, these verses state that revelation is not confined to mankind, but it also includes other creatures such as: the Heavens, the Disciples, the angels, the bees, and Musa's mother. Therefore, there can be no doubt that Allah, the Exalted, sent revelations to the Mistress of Women and daughter of the Master of Prophets, as he revealed to Musa's mother or Maryam Bint Imran. In conclusion, Fatima's book is enormous, and includes detailed information about the legal punishments and the Islamic penal code, whether major or minor. It was also declared that her book lists the names of kings who ruled and will rule on Earth until the Day of Resurrection. All this was according to the will of Allah the Knowing, the Omniscient. The book also contains descriptions of all-important events that will take place throughout history. Fatima's book was not a Quran, as is clearly stated in the traditions of Ahlul-Bayt, in spite of the claims of the enemies of the Shiite who argue that the Shiites believe in another divine book called Fatima's book, with the intention of undermining their authentic faith. The word inspired as explained in english dictionary v. in�spired, in�spir�ing, in�spires v. tr. To affect, guide, or arouse by divine influence. To fill with enlivening or exalting emotion: hymns that inspire the congregation; an artist who was inspired by Impressionism. To stimulate to action; motivate: a sales force that was inspired by the prospect of a bonus. To affect or touch: The falling leaves inspired her with sadness. To draw forth; elicit or arouse: a teacher who inspired admiration and respect. To be the cause or source of; bring about: an invention that inspired many imitations. To draw in (air) by inhaling. Meaning of revelation in englilsh dictionary rev�e�la�tion n. The act of revealing or disclosing. Something revealed, especially a dramatic disclosure of something not previously known or realized. Theology. A manifestation of divine will or truth. Revelation Abbr. Rev. or Rv. Bible. Meaning on word dictated v. dic�tat�ed, dic�tat�ing, dic�tates v. tr. ic�tat�ed, dic�tat�ing, dic�tates v. tr. To say or read aloud to be recorded or written by another: dictate a letter. It has been narrated in v. 10 of A-Bihar that Imam Sadiq (A.S.) said to Abu Basir:
"... We also possess Fatima's book Mushaf, and had they known about the book of Fatima!!! It is three times the size of your Quran; and by Allah, it has not a letter of your Quran; rather it was dictated and revealed to her by Allah ...."
This again goes to proves that shia do not belileve in quran as the last testement of Allah[swt] but believe in continious revelation, inshallah will post another shia hadith stating that all Imam recieve a divine book every year and go on miraj every friday. |
Posted By: freebird
Date Posted: 25 November 2005 at 11:13pm
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I have never discussed this with any muslim from the shi ah community nor heard anyone that I know of. It will be easy if we can bring forward question to a knowledgable shia sheikh instead of discussing among the sunni side only. For an example we can ask what surah or ayah that were missing/removed from the Qur'an and where they were originally located. If there is an answer or answers - than everyone can work together to fit in the missing chapters or verses in the present Qur'an. This is the only way to stop the unnecessary bickering which has caused the bloodshed for the laymen and laywomen. Any shiah in this forum? |
Fatah-Momin wrote:Posted By: Fatah-Momin
Date Posted: 26 November 2005 at 9:37am
| This is from the shia source it is not I who has printed this material, ready link has been provieded for you to access the site and go through the whole content and not just rely on my post. Read the content carefully and give thoughts to the claims made on the site. |
Posted By: Fatah-Momin
Date Posted: 26 November 2005 at 9:42am
 Here is the image of sura which shia claim was thrown out of the Quran by the Companions. |
Posted By: Deus
Date Posted: 26 November 2005 at 6:40pm
| The Sura you have provided has been shown to be a forgery (see http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Text/forgery.html - http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Text/forgery.html ). |
Posted By: freebird
Date Posted: 27 November 2005 at 4:29am
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I went to the front page of that site http://www.balagh.net/english/ - http://www.balagh.net/english/ and there is a section specificly for the Qur'an with the heading Qur'an - I click that. And there is an article with the name: The Originality and Genuineness of The Holy Qur'an in its text and its Arrangement: The great majority of scholars of all schools of thought in Islam agree that the Holy Qur'an, as it is today in our hands, was put into writing under the command, and under the personal supervision, of the Holy Prophet himself, and that there were no additions, omissions or alterations whatsoever. I knew this all the way back from 1998 when I asked a shiah in one of the website. He gave me such answer that in an instant I dismissed any claim that the shiah are not muslims or have different Qur'an. But some people refuse to have a dialogue with the people they never met and that's why we are so easy to fall into fitnah. Trust them brother just like you trust yourself. Let scrutinize ourselves first before pointing the finger unto others. Be kind to fellow believers no matter how hard we need to confront the old dogmas. Be helpfull with what we know even little to those who are struggling with their own knowledge. And let's forgive them of all their short comings just as what we wish others in looking at our short comings. Hopefully with this attitude the world will be better place to live for the next generations at least - if not for us. O God, show us the truth as the truth.
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Posted By: Fatah-Momin
Date Posted: 21 January 2006 at 10:43am
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I went to the front page of that site http://www.balagh.net/english/ - http://www.balagh.net/english/ and there is a section specificly for the Qur'an with the heading Qur'an - I click that. And there is an article with the name: You must have went to the site ans read what is written under taqeeyah,[lies] if you had continue to read further you would have found what I have posted from the same site, that Quran is not the last revelation, but it continued after the Nabi Allah[saw] passed away, and that book which is known as "MUSHAF FATIMA" is actually the last book of revelations from Allah. When a faith which is based 9/10 on lies can you take their word on face value? when in majority of their books it is contrary to what you have read. |
Posted By: Fatah-Momin
Date Posted: 21 January 2006 at 10:44am
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Here are the images from the same site
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Posted By: Fatah-Momin
Date Posted: 21 January 2006 at 10:46am
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Posted By: ak_m_f
Date Posted: 21 January 2006 at 11:40am
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One should ask these question from scholar instead of discussing on the forum, just to remind you there are many hate site that spread false information.
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Posted By: Fatah-Momin
Date Posted: 21 January 2006 at 1:05pm
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ak_m_f the site I quoted from above is the most authentic shia site for your benifit here is further proof
AL-ALAAMA Nuri Al-Tabrassi [shia scholar], author of one of the most important Shiite references MUSTADRAK AL-WASAEL, mocks Allah's Book and writes that there are verses whose style reaches silliness! |
Posted By: Fatah-Momin
Date Posted: 21 January 2006 at 3:19pm
  "Quran was changed by Alcholic khalifs [ Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman(ra)] [naouzobillah] Translation Maulivi Maqbool Hussain Dehlvi Para 12 #384 |
Posted By: Fatah-Momin
Date Posted: 27 January 2006 at 7:39pm
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Let see how "infalible" imam speak about verse of Quran. The verse is this one
كنتم خير أمة أخرجت للناس تأمرون بالمعروف وتنهون عن المنكر وتؤمنون بالله When imam Abu Abdullah was asked, how this verse was revealed, he said: "كنتم خير أئمة أخرجت للناس .This is Quran----3/110. "You are the best of the nations raised up for (the benefit of) men; you enjoin what is right and forbid the wrong and believe in Allah". And this is the version of imam---You are the best of the imams raised up for (the benefit of) men; you enjoin what is right and forbid the wrong and believe in Allah. (Tafsir Kashani, vol 1 p370) http://www.rafed.net/books/olom-quran/al-safi-01/23.html - http://www.rafed.net/books/olom-quran/al-safi-01/23.html (�Tafsir Qummi� том 1, стр 36) http://img476.imageshack.us/my.php?image=qome15gb.jpg - http://img476.imageshack.us/my.php?image=qome15gb.jpg http://www.ahl-ul-bait.org/newlib/Quran/Al_Qomi1/index1.htm - http://www.ahl-ul-bait.org/newlib/Quran/Al_Qomi1/index1.htm  |
Posted By: Fatah-Momin
Date Posted: 27 January 2006 at 7:41pm
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Shia respected scholar Husain al-Nuri al-Tabarsi says: "It has been narrated from many of the Rawafid of times gone by that the present Qur'an is not the one which was revealed upon Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W.). it has been altered, and many words added on and omitted." (Faslul Khitab fi Tahrif Kitab Rabb al-Arbab pge 32).
  Al-Jazaeri, in his book Al-Anwar Al-Numania p.360-362 said that after Ali collected Quran, he brought it to Caliphs and said to them:"This is the book of Allah as revealed. So Umar Ibn Al-Khattab said to him: We have no need of you nor your Quran. We have a Quran writted by Usman. So Ali said to them: "You will not see it after this day , and none will see until my son the Mehdi emerges." In that Quran are many additions and it is free from alteration......" |
Posted By: ak_m_f
Date Posted: 27 January 2006 at 8:20pm
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my friend is Shi'a and he reads from the same quran as me.
why is that ? |
Posted By: Fatah-Momin
Date Posted: 27 April 2006 at 9:12am
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Al-Shafi/Al-Kafi Page#140 Book of Imaan and Kufar Vol:IV |
Posted By: superme
Date Posted: 02 May 2006 at 7:06pm
| Fatah-Momin, are you sure they have always two different Qur'ans, at hand, one for among themselves and one for when with non shia? |
Posted By: ak_m_f
Date Posted: 02 May 2006 at 8:01pm
Its all b.s propaganda to create hatred among each other, I have heard a lot of myths about shia. maybe they have different sects in shia, but my frnd read from the same quran and even has the same kalima as me |
Posted By: BMZ
Date Posted: 04 May 2006 at 8:50pm
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ak_m_f, Has any Authority been given to your Holy Penguin or by whose Authority, your Holy Penguin is revealing to me that I am 007.M16.9.99! and that I am running on Windows XP and using IE 6! ? |
Posted By: mariyah
Date Posted: 23 May 2006 at 2:43am
------------- "Every good deed is charity whether you come to your brother's assistance or just greet him with a smile. |
LOLPosted By: AbRah2006
Date Posted: 01 June 2006 at 8:10pm
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Response: The completeness of Quran is so indisputable among Shia that the greatest ------------- God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8) |
Posted By: AbRah2006
Date Posted: 01 June 2006 at 8:16pm
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Fatah-Momin What are your motives behind your writings? Shia and Sunni are brothers and sisters! They believe in Allah and His messenger and the same Quran. ------------- God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8) |
Posted By: ak_m_f
Date Posted: 02 June 2006 at 5:33am
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He is getting these info from some hate website. Thank you "AbRah2006" for proving me right. |
Posted By: Fatah-Momin
Date Posted: 04 June 2006 at 12:44am
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I must apologize for my absence as I was busy in a debate that required my full attention, I am not getting information from any hate site, but directly from shia source, inshallah hence forth I will make sure that I do not make any quote with out a link or shia source [refrence]
Let see how "infalible" imam speak about verse of Quran. The verse is this one
Let us see the name of the heading in the first volume of your famous Al Kafi.
It is atributed to Hz. Ali [ra] in EHTIJAJ TABRISI PAGE# 259
Asool Kafi Vol:2 Page#632 Rejecting Accuracy/Integrity of Quran-Fundamental Belief of Shi'ism |
Posted By: Fatah-Momin
Date Posted: 04 June 2006 at 1:00am
The four shia scholar that AbRah2006 quote, what other shia scholars say about their opinion, it is worthy to note that in last one thousand year shia could only quote four scholar who only one occasion [which may have been taqiyaa] agree that present Quran is authentic. |
Posted By: Fatah-Momin
Date Posted: 04 June 2006 at 1:11am
 Mullah Baqir Majlasi:" and traditions from the ways of the elite (i.e Shia) and the public (i.e Sunnah) regarding omission and change are numerous (mutawatir), and logic dectates that if the Quran was seperated and spread amongst people, then if a fallible has tried to collect it, then it is highly unlikely that its collection would be complete and in compliance with reality. However, there is no doubt that people are obliged to work with what is included in the Mushafs and to read it until Al-Qayem appears, and this is known through numersous traditions (mutawatir) from the way of Ahlul Bayt and most traditions relating to this topic point to omission and change, and many of it will be related in the chapters..........."  " This tradition is authentic and it cannot be hidden that this traditon and many more authentic traditons are explicit in (saying) that the Quran is missing and has changed. For me, (I believe) that the traditions have reached tawatur (i.e they are numerous) with regards to the meaning, and ignoring all of it would mean ignoring all traditions accordingly , but I think that the narrations in this meaning are not less than the narrations if Imamah so how do they confirm it using traditions?" Mirat Al-Uqool Vol 12 p. 525  |
Posted By: AbRah2006
Date Posted: 04 June 2006 at 5:18am
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Fatah-Momin, Do you know what are you doing now? You are trying to split Muslim brotherhood and destroy the unity of Muslims thus weakening Muslims! What do you get by doing such things? Even the Americans, British and Zionists are trying to do the same thing in Iraq when their agents are caught red-handed by Iraqi policemen when they use cars that are full of explosives to kill Shia and Sunni followers while the agents of the infidels spread rumors accusing both Sunni and Shia of bombing each other so that the Sunni and Shia will kill each other. The infidels watch the show happily and use it as an excuse to occupy Iraq for a long time to steal all the Iraqi oil! Are you one of their agents? What are your motives behind your writing? ------------- God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8) |
Posted By: ak_m_f
Date Posted: 04 June 2006 at 8:05am
I agree. Also remeber when they caught british agent in Iraq? dressed as Iraqi? |
Posted By: Fatah-Momin
Date Posted: 09 June 2006 at 12:13am
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Please find below a statement by an ex shia
I say: Wallahi shias are liers, there is no need to learn history, hadis, or anything else to prove that! That is clear. Modern shia clerics are talking about muslims unity, about brotherhood between sunnis and shias. Wallahi we are not muslims for them. Here another proof. |
Posted By: Fatah-Momin
Date Posted: 09 June 2006 at 12:15am
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Original Quran will not come into view till the manifestation of Imam Mehdi (SHIAs 12th Imam) (Na�uzubillah). [Anwaar-ul-Na'umania, Vol#2, Pg#360 - Published Iran] Collectors of Quran eliminated virtues of Prophet�s progeny from Surah Al-Ahzab which was about to the length of Surah Al-Bakrah (Na�uzubillah). [Haq-ul-Yaqeen, Pg#66 - Published Iran] Usman (r.a) made alteration in Surah Al-Rehman by eliminating words �MINKUM� (Na�uzubillah). [Haq-ul-Yaqeen, Pg#525 - Published Iran] Quran has been purposely altered by the drunkard Caliphs {Abu-Bakr (r.a), Umar (r.a) and Usman (r.a)}; The present Quran is false; It�s the duty of Imam Mehdi (SHIAs 12th Imam) to bring it in its original form; When Imam Mehdi (SHIAs 12th Imam) will come, then the Quran will be recited in its original form (Na�uzubillah). [Quran Translation by Maqbool Hussain Delhvi, Chap#12, Pg#384 � Published India] �ILAA AJALIN-MUSAMMA� has been removed from the Quran (Na�uzubillah). [Muta�h Aur Salahuddin A�ybi, Pg#60 � Published Karachi] Quranic verses were not arranged by Abu-Bakr (r.a) in the same order as that in which it was revealed {hence Muslim Ummah was deprived of original Quran and present day Quran is incorrect} (Na�uzubillah). [Sheikh-e-Saqifah, Pg#134 � Published Karachi] After the death of Holy Prophet (s.a.w.w) original Quran was in the possession of Ali (r.a) which he brought before Abu-Bakr (r.a) but He refused to prevail such version that is why Muslim Ummah was deprived of original Quran (Na�uzubillah). [Sheikh-e-Saqifah, Pg#138 � Published Karachi] To provide reasoning to �WATI-FIL-DUBR� changes were made in the Quranic comprehension (Na�uzubillah). [Tehzeeb-ul-Ahkaam, Vol#7, Pg#415 � Published Iran] The present (false) Quran doesn�t mentions the name of �Pakistan� however ours (SHIAs) true Quran even have the name of �Pakistan� (Na�uzubillah). [Hazar Tumhari Das Hamari, Pg#554 � Published Karachi] |
Posted By: Fatah-Momin
Date Posted: 09 June 2006 at 12:19am
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Quote from an ex shia
[ 25356 ] 2 � ��� ��� �� ������� � �� ��� �� ���� � �� ��� �� ����� � �� ��� ����� �� ���� ���� � ��� : ��� ���� �������� ( ���� ������ ) : �� ������ ������ ���� ���� ��� ������� ����� ���� ���� ����� ��������� ���� ����� ���� ���� ������� . |
Posted By: Andalus
Date Posted: 10 June 2006 at 2:47pm
Assalam Aleikum. I must state that you are engaging in really nasty polemics that exclude any real point or conclusion. You are simply pasting quotes from various sources in a manner called "dumping". "Dumping" is pretty nasty as it forces everyone to either accept your quotes and sources as legit, or go throught them all. Dumping polemical assertions pasted from websites is not in the spirit of this forum. As a Sunni, I have my issues with much of the foundation that the SHi'ites have based their beleifs on, but I also find hurling and trading polemics with them to be a waste of time and to a certain point, distasteful. I am asking you to make a voluntary choice to refrain from your current intention of pasting nasty polemics. Keep in mind that the mainstream Shias face Mecca and pray. I am aware of the differences, but after 1200 years you will accomplish nothing in the discord and I see no benefit in your current behavior. Assalam Aleikum ------------- A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah http://www.sunnipath.com http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/ http://www.pt-go.com/ |
Posted By: Fatah-Momin
Date Posted: 17 June 2006 at 12:50pm
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Walaikum Asalaam It is good to know that you are a sunni muslim, what amazes me that you call overwhelming exposition of shia faith from their own source to be "DUMPING" We do have shia members here, who have option to present evidence to the contrary, I challenege shia members on this board to present Fatwa of a authentic, known and clasical shia scholar who declared people who believe in tahreef or interpolation of Quran as "KUFAAR/FAKIR" As you stand for the unity of "UMMAH" please use this oppertunity to defend this UNITY. Inshallah I will wait for your response with such a fatawa. |
Posted By: ak_m_f
Date Posted: 17 June 2006 at 12:55pm
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My friend is Shia and he reads the same quran as me, and I can assure you that his family (including this mom) reads from the same quran too.
You shouldnt visit Propaganda sites in future. who knows it may brain wash u to join alqida & kill shias. |
Posted By: ZEA J
Date Posted: 17 June 2006 at 8:09pm
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------------- "You will never attain piety and righteousness,(and eventually paradise)until you spend of that which you love."(Al-Imran:92) |
Posted By: Andalus
Date Posted: 20 June 2006 at 9:47pm
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So was Abu Hanifa who did support Ah ul bayt, and rejected the Ummayds for their horrid treatment of the Ah ul bayt, and even gave his loyalty to an Abbasid Caliph until he also started abusing members of Ah ul bayt. What is sad is that the differences between shia and sunni was not actually "cannonized" in the early days, and now we have a split that has become a stain on our history.
The problem with the act of dumping is such that the problem is independent of where the souces are from, or the claim of where they are from. The act of dumping is a dishonest rhetorical trick, because one is faced with two choices: 1) Take the time to check all of the claims. 2) Do not take the time to check the claims, then we are faced with trusting the author or not. This form of rhetoric is "low tech", and it is also used by Chrsitian evangelcials who wish to show many derranged claims such as how the Jews really beleived in the trinitiy, or how the Jews used to be like Christians and they too give tons of quotes from the talmud, and rabbincal writings, and it is up to everyone to check all of their sources, which is not really feasable given the volume of claims It is "low tech" because it does not seek to find any truth, or put forth an argument or conclusion based upon any principles of rhetoric and logic. "Dumping" is really just a list of assertions which for all practical purpose, violates the widely known "princple of charity" in terms of examing pasages, texts, and interpreting writings. "Low tech" forms of rhetoric such as dumping seek to take the most outrageous, exaggerated interpretation of a text or passage. That is the erroneous nature of such chicanery. As an example, if I wish to debate the Shia, there are various grounds to choose that have real merit. Any group putting forth "lists" of claims is simply suspect of not being genuous about debate.
I would not expect anyone from the Shia community to take your work serious. I would not. It is simply "bad form". Your work does not provide an argument of any form, it simply makes assertions. I have had numerous lists like that one passed to me from Christians and from Shias who make outrageous claims from "my own texts". One cannot replace low tech rhetoric for real debate. No good comes from them. And when you pass them along, it makes us look no better than many of the evangelcials or even the more aggressive Shia. I believe your intention is not good.
Your powers of deduction are puzzeling. What I represent has not been clarified, and a fatwah for common sense is not required. I also suspect this to be a simple deflection from the point of my post which was both polite and concise. This really has no relevance to the bad form of using this forum to "dump" bad polemics that have absolutely no benefit, or intentional benefit. ------------- A feeling of discouragement when you slip up is a sure sign that you put your faith in deeds. -Ibn 'Ata'llah http://www.sunnipath.com http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/ http://www.pt-go.com/ |
Posted By: Syed Nasruallah
Date Posted: 04 July 2008 at 12:05am
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Dear Brother in ISLAM,
IN WHAT WAY DO YOU THINK THAT YOU ARE MUSLIMS & ALLAH & HIS PROPHET MOHHAMMAD S.A.W.W WILL FORGAVE YOU PEOPLE, AS YOU WERE LIERS. THE STATEMENTS MADE BY YOU AGAINST A SHIYA MUSLIM COMMUNITY IS ONLY & ONLY LIE NOTHING ELSE. IT IS CALLED AS BOHTAAN. WE OBEY THE SAYINGS OF PROPHET MOHHAMMAD SAWW & HIS TEACHINGS & QURAN & IT IS THE LAST TEACHINGS OR KALAAM OF ALL MIGHTY ALLAH, RASOOL ALLAH SAWW WORKED FOR THE UNITED MISSION OF ISLAM, BUT IT IS OUR BAD LUCK THAT OUR MOLVIZ OR MULLAHS DIVIDED THE ISLAM IN THE NAME OF SHIA, SUNI, MALKI, WAHABI ETC, ETC.
BUT I AM SURE THAT ALLAH WILL NEVER FORGAVE THE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO PROVE THAT ISLAM IS A WRONG CONCEPT OF RELIGION NOTHING ELSE, AS YOUR ARE DOING FROM PAST FEW DACADES.
I WISH PRAY HOPE THAT ALL MUSLIMS GET UNITED UNDER A SINGLE FLAG OF ORIGINAL & PURE ISLAM.
ONE MORE WRONG CONCEPT THAT YOU PEOPLE DO HAVE IN YOUR MINDS IS THAT WE ARE NOT READY TO ACCEPT HAZRAT UMER, HARRAT USMAN, HAZRAT ABU BAKR AS FIRST THREE ZAHIRY KAHLIPHAS IT IS WRONG. WE ACCEPT THAT THEY WERE THE ZAHARIY KHALIPHAS & SUHABIES OF PROPHET SAWW, BUT THE VILAYAT WAS GIVEN ONLY & ONLY TO HAZRAT ALI (A.S) AS PROPHET IN GADEER KHUM SAYS
MAN KUNTO MOULA FA HAZA ALIYUN MOULA
BUT YOU PEOPLE ARE NOT READY TO ACCEPT IT, WE HAVE NOTHING CHANGED IN QURAAN IT IS ABSOLUTLY WRONG.
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Posted By: minuteman
Date Posted: 04 July 2008 at 11:12am
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Yes, that seems to be right. The Shias and Sunnis have the same Quran every where. There are some bad claims by some Shias about the Quran but it is better to overlook those things and not spread the bad news. Andalus is right. fateh should not embark on a heavy serious mission on the forum. But the post of the last friend here, above, even though he/she has twisted the beliefs around to make them palliable (palatable, consumable) by covering them in nice words such as zahiri Khalifah and real Khalifah, that is an effort by the Shia friend. But that is not enough. It is just an effort to falsely calm down the things. Hazrat Abubakr and Hazrat Umar were the real Khalifah and Imam of the Ummah in all respects. Allah made them the Khalifah. Hazrat Ali was the fourth Imam. Now it is necessary to correct the last part of the Shia friend about Ghadeer and the hadith that is quoted, in all earnest and with loving message, I will say that there was no discussion about Wilayat (or Khilafat) at Ghadeer. I have the proof. The translation that is done by the Shia Ulema about "Man kuntu Maulahu, Fa Aliyyu Maulahu" is wrong. The word Maula does not mean Leadership or Khilafat. There was nothing decided at Ghadeer about future leadership. The Shias are totally mistaken about it and they are making a great controversy about it using the Ghadeer. That is the cause of the major rift in the Ummah. The word Maula has many meanings, such as a released slave or a friend etc. The shia friend has not quoted the whole Hadith. The prophet came to know that some Sahabah were not happy with Hazrat Ali. So the prophet advised them that whosoever friend I am then Ali is also a friend of that person. The proof that meaning is the friend here is as follows: "Man kuntu maula hu fa Aliyyu Maula hu. Allah humma walle man Walaa hu wa Aade man Aadaa hu". That is the complete Hadith. It means "Who ever's friend I am then Ali is also the friend of that person. O Allah, please you also be the friend of that one who is the friend of him ( of Ali) and you also be the enemy of the one who is the enemy of him (.i,e, Ali). Please read the whole Hadith and then decide what is the meaning of the word "Maula" in it. It cannot be any ruler or Hakim. It can only be the meaning "Friend'" as in the last the word enemy is also there. I hope my friends will agree that there is nothing about a successor in that hadith. Thanks. ------------- If any one is bad some one must suffer |
Posted By: Syed Nasruallah
Date Posted: 04 July 2008 at 11:21pm
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Dear brother in ISLAM,
why are your making such false statements, this world has been created only for & on behalf of MOHHAMMAD wa AALE MOHAMMAD, it means for the sake of Mohhammad & his Sons & daughters. it can be conveyed from the the statement made by Hazrat Aadam a.s. when he was born he was told the story of future that how Islam will come to this world and how IMAM HUSSAIN (A.S) will be killed by yazidi lashker in karbala with his Small child named ALI ASGAR & old man Named HABIB IBN MAZAHIR. the statements made by Rasool allah saww in the big iglas / functions are not accepted by you people, while when Prophet Mohhammad saww at the time of AEHTIZAR conveys his wasiyat to HAZRAT ALI a.s. it is being heared by some muslim scholars. it is shame on those muslim scholars.
if you still do have any objection your can make every thing clear from one of the Suni Scholars belonging to pakistan, who has done 3 P.hd's in Quran, Hadith & sunnah. DR. Bashir Qadri, you can contact him
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Posted By: Syed Nasruallah
Date Posted: 04 July 2008 at 11:50pm
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AN APEEL A HUMBLE REQUEST GET UNITED WORK FOR MUSLIM UMMAH, DO NOT DIVEDE MUSLIMS ON THE BASIS OF SHIA, SUNI, HANFEE, MALIKEE, SHAFEE, ILAHI, WAHABI. BE JUST A MUSLIM AND WORK FOR THE MISSION OF PROPHET MOHAMMAD SAWW, KHUD DOST BANO PLEASE |
Posted By: Syed Nasruallah
Date Posted: 06 July 2008 at 3:49am
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Principles of Islam According to Shia-Muslim Study The principles of Islam According to Shia Muslim study are five in number, they are as under: 1. Tawheed (single): That there is no God but Allah subhana wa ta-ala, he has no any partner, he has not been created by any mixture. He is one & only One the creator of this whole universe. Yes only he is the creator & destroyer of whole universe. 2. Adl (justice): That only Allah Subhana wa ta-ala is the JUST, who forgave an extremely bad sin, only he is forgiver, & only he is the one who is Just full nothing is unjust with his creation & never ever can he be unjust. Allah is only the one who can provide the best justice. 3. Naboowat (Messenger): That Almighty Allah Subhana Wa Ta-Ala sent his last messenger, Hazrat Mohhammad SAWW as the Prophet & head of one lakh twenty four thousand messengers. Only He (SAWW) is the Prophet of Islam, only He (SAWW) is the truth, Allah also gifted him a Holy book known as Quraan. It is truly the Kalami-pakh of Allah Subhana wa ta-ala. 4. Imamat (Guide to Islam / Shariyat): That after ending the Risalat, as Hazrat Mohhammad SAWW was the last messenger, the time of Imamat or Vilayat came to this universe with 12 pure & qualified personalities starting from Hazrat Ali (A.S) & will end on Hazrat Mehdi (A.S). Only these are the persons who can guide us to the path of Islam & Shariyat, we just need to walk or work on their guidelines we will never go through a wrong way. It will never mislead / misguide us. 5. Qayamat (the day of judgment): That after the end of Imamat, a day of judgment will come when every single person will have to prove his / her sincerity towards Allmighty Allah, Rasool-Allah, Quraan & its Principles. On this day Hazrat Mohhammad wa Aale Mohhammad SAWW will be one a place known as Houzi- Qounsar, were from they will serve this holy drink (Purely water) to those who worked for & on the mission of Rasool Allah SAWW. He will be rewarded Shafaat Mohhammad wa Aale Mohhammad. |
Posted By: minuteman
Date Posted: 09 July 2008 at 1:48am
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Syed sahib, not too fast. Let us move slowly, one step at a time. You had tried to tell about Man Kuntu Maula hu... What happened about that please. One lesson at a time is better for us. Thanks. You please explain about maula. Does it mean a friend or a ruler in that Hadith? ------------- If any one is bad some one must suffer |
Posted By: Syed Nasruallah
Date Posted: 09 July 2008 at 9:25am
The General Pattern; of Islamic Thought in the Qur�an
(Some Chapters from the book)WALAYAHThe new thought and vision which is proposed by God through the Prophet promises a new life. This can be achieved only if that thought can establish its identity in the mind and action of an integrated community. For such a community, which forms a solid and impenetrable front strongly tries not to efface when confronting the opposite thoughts and actions. This purpose requires the rejection of any dependence-if necessary or possible even breaking off the ties of ordinary relationship-which enfeebles the front of the believers. In the language of the Our'an this intellectual and practical stand, from the point of view of thought and action is called 'walayah'. Again when this integrated group, which is the cornerstone of Islamic society and the principal basis of Islamic community, changes to a strong nation and establishes an Islamic society, it needs to observe the principle of 'walayah' in order to preserve its unity and integrity and avoid the penetration of its enemies. The Our'an points out these ideas in several verses as follows: "0 believers, take not My enemy and your enemy for friends, offering them love, though they have disbelieved in the truth that has come to you, expelling the Messenger and you because you believe in God your Lord. If you go forth to struggle in My way and seek My good pleasure, secretly loving them, yet I know very well what you conceal and what you publish; and whosoever of you does that, has gone astray from the right way. If they come on you, they will be enemies to you, and stretch against you their hands and their tongues, to do you evil, and they wish that you might disbelieve. Neither your bloodkindred nor your children shall profit you upon the Day of Resurrection; He shall distinguish between you. And God sees the things you do. You have had a good example in Abraham, and those with him, when they said to their people, 'We quit you and what you worship, apart from God. We disbelieve in you, and between us and you enmity has shown itself, and hatred for ever, until you believe in God alone. '(60:1- 4 ) The Relations of Islamic Community After the establishment of the great 'community', the integrated group which is the origin of the Islamic Nation, expands to the extent of all the true believers of the world. In such a community the principle of 'walayah' influences its civil and foreign affairs.In civil affairs, all the units and wings of the nation are obliged to carefully prepare all the forces in one way and for one aim and strongly avoid dispersion and disorder which cause the futility of some parts of these forces ' In foreign affairs, they should abstain from any relationship and friendship which endangers independence and authority of the world of Islam. It is quite obvious that taking care of the two aspects of , walayah'(integrity and co-ordination in internal affairs, freedom and non-alliance in foreign affairs) requires a central and superior power which is, in fact, the crystallization of all the constructive elements of Islam (Imam"-the Islamic governor). I also requires a deep and strong relationship between all the members of the Islamic community and the Islamic governor (Imam). Here another aspect of walayah' is manifested and that is the Imam's walayah and the leadership of the Islamic world. In the following verses the Our'an has skillfully mentioned these subtle facts. "O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Whoso of you makes them his friends is one of them. God guides not the people of the evil-doer. Yet thou seest those in whose hearts is sickness lying with one another to come to them, saying, 'We fear lest a turn of fortune should smite us.' But it may be that God will bring the victory, or some commandment from Him, and then they will find themselves, for that they kept secret within them, remorseful, and the believers will say, 'What, are these the ones who swore by God most earnest oaths that they were with you? Their works have failed; now they are losers. '0 believers, whosoever of you turns from his religion, God will assuredly bring a people He loves, and who Love Him, humble towards the believers, disdainful towards the unbelievers, men who struggle in the path of God, not fearing the reproach of any reproacher. That is God's bounty; He bestows His favors upon whomever He wills And God is All-embracing, Allknowing. Only your friend is God, and His Messenger. And the believers who perform the prayer and pay the poor-due (zakat), while bowing down (in prayer). 5:51-55 O believers, fear God as He should be feared, and do not die unless you are Muslims. And you hold fast to God's bond, together, and do not scatter... " (3:102-103) Thinking about the following verses will show us the vast horizons of walayah's paradise, and will once more emphasize the fact that none of the religious commandments is as important as walayah. "Cursed were the unbelievers of the Children of Israel by the tongue of David, and Jesus, Mary's son; that, for their rebelling and their transgression. They forbade not one another any dishonor that they committed; surely evil were the things they did. Thou seest many of them making unbelievers their friends. Evil is that they have forwarded to their account, that God is angered against them, and in the chastisement they shall dwell forever. Yet had they believed in God and the Prophet and what has been sent down to him, they would not have taken them as friends; but many of them are of evil conduct. (5:78-81) "0 believers, take not as your friends those of them, who were given the Scripture before you and the unbelievers-who take your religion for a jest and sport-and fear God, if you are believers-and when you call to prayer, they take it for a jest and sport; that is because they are people who have no understanding. Say: 'People of the Scripture, do you blame us for any other cause than that we believe in God, and what has been sent down to us, and what was sent down before, and that most of you are evil-livers?' Say: 'Shall I tell you of a recompense with God, worse than that:' Whomsoever God has cursed, and with whom He is wroth, and made some of them apes and swine, and worshippers of idols-they are worse situated, and have gone further astray from the right way.' (5:57-60) About Walayah (1) The principle of walayah, discussed in the Qur'an comprehensively, can be considered from many points of view. Sometimes each of them can be regarded as a principle in itself in understanding Islam. If one thinks attentively about the following verses, some of these points of view can be observed.1. The wali of the Islamic society, that is the power which leads all the mental and practical activities of the society, is God or whomever God has assigned-either in -name or by signs-for walayah. "Your guardian wali is only God, and His Messenger, and the believers who perform the prayer and pay the Zakat while bowing down, " (5:-5-5) "God commands you to deliver trusts back to their owners; and when you judge between the people, that you judge with justice. Good is the admonition God gives you; God is All-hearing, All- seeing. 0 believers, obey God, and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. If you have a dispute on anything, refer it to God and the Messenger, if you believe in God and the Last Day; that is better. and fairer in the issue. (4:58-59) "Whosoever obeys the Messenger, thereby obeys God; and whosoever turns his back-We have not sent thee to be a watcher over them. "(4:80) "Hast thou not regarded those who assert that they believe in what has been sent down to thee, and what was sent down before thee, desiring to take their disputes to idols, yet they have been commanded to disbelieve in them? But Satan desires to lead them astray into far error. "(4:60) 2. God's walayah and its acceptance by the believers has a mental foundation which has been taken into consideration in the Islamic world view and is a natural phenomenon. "And to Him belongs whatsoever inhabits the night and the day; and He is the Allhearing, the All-knowing, Say: 'Shall 1 take to myself as guardian other than God, the Originator of the heavens and of the earth, He Who feeds and is not fed'?' say: 'l have been commanded to be the first of them that surrender: "Be not thou of the idolaters...... (6:13-14)' About Walayah (2) Any walayah except the walayah of God and His viceroys is the walayah of taghut and Satan. The acceptance of Satan's walayah makes Satan dominant over all the constructive and creative forces of man which he will use in the way of his own lusts. As far as taghut does not consider any essentiality for anything except his own benefits and due to his lack of information about man's needs and his possibilities in Nature, his leadership for human community is the origin of damage and loss of man's valuable energies. The very lack of Information in the community under the dominance of taghut's walayah deprives its people of the brightness of knowledge, humanity and God's life-giving rules, and confines them in the darkness of ignorance, lusts, selfishness and perverseness. The Holy Qur'an says:"When thou recites the Our'an, seek refuge in God from the accursed Satan; he has no authority over those who believe and trust in their Lord; his authority is over those who take him for their friend and ascribe associates to God. (16:98-100) ....brings them forth from the darkness into the light. And the unbelievers-their patrons are idols, that bring them forth from the light into the darkness; those are the inhabitants of the Fire, therein dwelling forever. "(2:257) About Walayah (3) (Hijrah) 4. Taghut's and Satan's walayah in a community makes the true believer dependent on taghut's power in many different ways and encumbers him with its invisible net; his freedom is taken away and he is unconsciously let to the end which that system is doomed to. Such a system prevents the true believer from spending his power in the way of Islam.This inevitable reality proposes the phenomenon of "hijrah". Hijrah means escaping from taghut's bondage and getting to the free environs of Islam, where everything guides man to the divine aim, where the natural process of the society is leading towards exaltation, mental and material evolution, where goodness prevails and no signs of malignity can be seen,. that is, the Islamic community. Therefore, according to the principle of walayah, hijrah, is an essential and urgent obligation for the true believer. He is to transfer from the taghut's environs to the Islamic community and step into the environs of God's walayah. Thinking about the verses of "hijrah" in the Qur�an reveals many points about this subject. "They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be.. (ensan89). "But whoso makes a breach with the Messenger after the guidance has become clear to him and follows a way other than the believers, We shall turn him over to what he himself has turned to and We shall roast him in Gehenna-an evil homecoming. God forgives not that aught should be with Him associated; less than that He forgives to whomsoever He wills. Whoso associates with God anything, has gone astray into far error. Instead of Him, they pray not except to female beings; they pray not except to a rebel Satan accursed by God. He said, 'Assuredly I will take unto myself a portion appointed of Thy servants, and I will lead them astray, and fill them with fancies, and I will command them and they will cut off the cattle's ears; I will command them and they will alter God's creation. ' Whoso takes Satan to him for a friend, instead of God, has surely suffered a manifest loss. He promises them and falls them with fancies but there is nothing Satan promises them except delusion. "(4:115-120) "God is the Guardian of the believers; He equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and kill them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves anyone of them as friend or helper (4:89) "Those who believe, and have emigrated and struggled with their possessions and themselves in the way of God, and those who have given refuge and help-those are friends one of another. And those who believe, but have not emigrated-you have no duty of friendship towards them till they emigrate; yet if they ask you for help, in religion's matter, it is your duty to help them, except against the people between whom and you there is a compact, and God sees the things you do. As for the unbelievers, they are friends one of another. Unless you do this there will be persecution in the land and great corruption. And those who believe, and have emigrated and struggled in the way of God and those who have given refuge and help those in truth are the believers. And theirs shall be forgiveness and generous provision.'(8:72-74) ,'And those the angels take (in death), while still they are wronging themselves the angels will ask, 'In what circumstances were you?' They will say, 'We were oppressed in the earth.' The angels will say, 'But was not God's earth wide, so that you might have emigrated in it?' For such men, their refuge shall be Gehenna-and evil homecoming except the men, women, and children who, being oppressed, can devise nothing and arc not guided to a way; haply them God will yet pardon for God is All-Pardoning, All-forgiving. Whoso emigrates in the way of God will find in the earth many refuges and plenty; whoso goes forth from his house an emigrant to God and His Messenger, and then death overtakes him, his reward is then incumbent on God; surely God is All-forgiving, All-compassionate. (4:97-100) |
Posted By: Syed Nasruallah
Date Posted: 09 July 2008 at 9:35am
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Salam Dear,
first tell me one thing do you belive on union of Muslim Ummah, if yes then why people in our Muslim Ummah are fightning with each other. lets try our best to unite the whole form. lets as start such topics on this form that will convert maximum non-muslims to Muslim Ummah.
About Moula, it means the Jaanisheen, so it means the person who is authorised to take care of the property etc of the one whose jaanisheen that person will.
i am greatly thankfull to you for your response
your's truly
Syed Nasruallah
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Posted By: minuteman
Date Posted: 10 July 2008 at 10:13am
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I respect your good wishes for uniting the Muslims. Thanks. But Please put the Janasheen in the Hadith below and tell me if it fits your purpose.
"Man kuntu maula hu fa Aliyyu Maula hu. Allah humma walle man Walaa hu wa Aade man Aadaa hu"
According to you it would be :
Any one whose Jansheen (representative) I am then Ali is the Janasheen (representative) of that person. O Allah you also be the Janasheen (representative) of that one who is the Janasheen (representative) of Ali and be the enemy of the one who is the enemy of Ali.
Is that what you mean?
Also, you have given a very long lecture in your last post. Was that all from yourself? Did you type all that? If not then whose work was that? Please indicate the source of your post. Thanks. ------------- If any one is bad some one must suffer |
Posted By: Syed Nasruallah
Date Posted: 10 July 2008 at 11:08pm
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Asalaamu Alykum wa rahmatu allah wa barakat hu Dear it is really good that you are appriciating me for muslim Unity, i am thankfull to your great self, i request you also to join the same race, about Hadith I will read it carefully and then i will provide you more on it. one more thing is that i would like to know is that what is the logic for this
Do shia believe in present Quran.
i am yet not able to understand where is the confusion.
thanks
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Posted By: minuteman
Date Posted: 12 July 2008 at 4:05am
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You should ask any Sunni in India. He will tell you the problem. Most Sunnis believe that Shias do not think that Quran is real and original words. They say that the real Quran is with the Imam Ghaib (who disappeared six hundred (600) years ago). When he will come, he will bring the correct Quran.
There are things like that which are being propagated by the Shias too and the Sunnis do not like it. But I believe that the Quran is the same with everybody. There is no difference in the Quran which the Shias have got.
I say there are rumors supported by some Shias that the original Quran was in forty (40) parts. Now it is in 30 parts. So these are bad things. Nobody should believe them. ------------- If any one is bad some one must suffer |