Very simple question. Amreeka is the most "benevolent" thing in the world. In fact, some people (won't mention their names) take it to be Extra Additional Assistant Deputy Gaad.

Would you like your country to be occupied by Amreeka?

For America's duplicity in Saddam's past - I apologize. 

Thanks Bruce, for your such a bold gentlemanly step, which makes it possible for us to discuss on some shared ground.

Freedom is a great gift, it empowers people, it nourishes them. But, freedom and specially democracy works only when it's homegrown. When it's injected by a foreign power, with own interests in the region, it develops not just some serious, but extremely fatal, side effects.

The people of goodwill have the example of an imperial solution imposed on the Mid East just 80 years ago, by the then Super Power of the day. What did it create? Freedom? Peace? Stability?

Or, just plain simple terror that has overspilled al boundaries?

What about freedom and a bit of democracy for the poor people of Egypt? They have suffered the same brutal regime for two dozen years.

What about the 152 million Pakistanis being occupied by their own army?

We would have seen the American aims in a different light had the US not placed CIA operatives to head Afghanistan and Iraq + had not constructed 14 of her largest bases in the world around Iraq.

You be the judge and tell us who has been right in the scenario on the ground, today, the NeoCons or Colin Powell?

rami wrote: Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem How would you have seen the American aims had the US not put more favorable people to head Afghanistan and Iraq? Seriously, is it not logical that a nation who has a problem with groups in that specific region to have the wish to see people in power who would not impose a threat to it or it's interests? Hence the imperialist tag, it does things for its best interest regardless of the local population.

I am sure by "local population" you do not mean those who drive cars full of explosives in for instance muslims burrying their dead as happened yesterday. Imperialist tag you say? how about islamic groups who promise funding to those who preach their words?

My most loveable professor Community,

I would hang glide from the Statue of Liberty to respond to your post with 97 thanks for proving my point that:

Amreeka is there with her very own agenda.

And, all that sobbing of your ilk about the butchers, the rapists and the people of Eyerak is a typical Amreeki fraud.

Thank you for accepting that it's all about the Amreeki footprint in the area, not about democracy.

I always love to catch hold of you, it's you who runs away (like "US troops in Iraq") the moment Whisper and others begin to expose you.

You want to tell us that it's serious topic to post "Amreeka has Ameer in it"?

You evaporate when the spell-twist is challenged.

I hold nothing against you for being a Neo Con. ALL that I stand against is the way you twist Ayaats of the Qur'an for your / your master's agenda.

Another question to all of you, is it good to be a threat to the US and it's interests if freedom empowers people and nourishes them?

Who began the season for threats?

Just now you have proven to us that the US is in this area just for her own purpose, agenda - footprint. Now, in the same breath, you are telling us she is there to empower people and nourishe them with freedom?

Are you confused or just trying to confuse us?

Yes the US has problems and issues, but are these a sound basis for being a threat to them?

Must we model our lives, our countries, our entire world by just what is suitable for the US?

or is freedom an open way for anyone who wishes to try and fix those problems and issues?

Freedom? You mean like the one they have got in Egypt? Or, in Pakistan?

Professor Community, US may be extremely central to your life. It may be the Supa power - there to stay for ever in your mind. Sir, for the likes of this chap there is just but None Other Super Power than the ONE and ONLY.

You are more than welcome to work your life around what suits the US. We have no problem with that as long you don't twist and carve ayaats from the Qur'an about the "sent one".

You are wrong. Whisper is not the only one who knows you.

That's absolutely our problem. It has nothing to do with any Amreeki touts.

I am sure by "local population" you do not mean those who drive cars full of explosives in for instance muslims burrying their dead as happened yesterday. Imperialist tag you say? how about islamic groups who promise funding to those who preach their words?

Is that an answer to Rami's post? Or, just some typical Neo Con slander of the LOCAL POPULATION?

How many people drove trucks into others before your Sent One sent troops into Iraq?

What funding are you talking about?

Do you have any experience of the area at all or you just like venting your anti-Arab (which I do understand the reason for in view of your personal tragedy) and anti-Islam stance, which I fail to understand.

Tell us, convince us why should we stand-under the US?

I hold noreason to worship Amreeka (like you promote) that the light bulb was invented there - F O R the simple reason that the bigest, the brightest source of light and energy rises from the EAST each morning with my Master's raza.

Bismillah,

Many of us Americans don't like that we are occupied by power hungry control freaks in the two-party system which has no room for a humble person, like Abe Lincoln, to lead us in a way that we can accept instead of hate and villify.  The rebel army who established our country, and whom the freedom hating power freaks misquote, would despise its leaders now and not recognize it as theirs.

voiceoftawheed wrote: 'I hold noreason to worship Amreeka (like you promote) that the light bulb was invented there - F O R the simple reason that the bigest, the brightest source of light and energy rises from the EAST each morning with my Master's raza.' I can't stop my self from giving you a heartful of thaks for this comment. Superb!! What a shame, that still there are people in favour of America in the same way as there are people supporting OBL or his likes. Any body has got rights to love his country or keep patriotic feelings, but, being blind to the misdeeds of its leaders is sheer hypocrisy. What do you say?

Allah mentions the sun and the moon in the koran, the sun he calls dhiyaa and the moon as noor, Allah is Noor assamawaati wa al ardh(light of the heavens and the earth and not the Dhaw', both in english translate as light although in arabic there is a difference between the sun being dhiyaa and the moon noor. The US was the first to go to the moon also.

Whisper wrote: My most loveable professor Community, I would hang glide from the Statue of Liberty to respond to your post with 97 thanks for proving my point that:   Amreeka is there with her very own agenda. And, all that sobbing of your ilk about the butchers, the rapists and the people of Eyerak is a typical Amreeki fraud.   Thank you for accepting that it's all about the Amreeki footprint in the area, not about democracy.

It has become clear that a free world, free from dictators is in the best interest of the United States.

Whisper wrote: You want to tell us that it's serious topic to post "Amreeka has Ameer in it"?

The name is a western given name, the name was America after Americo Vespucci. The Arabs made AMERICA into AMREEKA, so the true name of America has the word Ameer in it. Must be some conspiracy huh

voiceoftawheed wrote: Anybody has got rights to love his country or keep patriotic feelings, but, being blind to the misdeeds of its leaders is sheer hypocrisy. What do you say?

Light makes it possible for us to see.

Whisper wrote: Hence the imperialist tag, it does things for its best interest regardless of the local population. I am sure by "local population" you do not mean those who drive cars full of explosives in for instance muslims burrying their dead as happened yesterday. Imperialist tag you say? how about islamic groups who promise funding to those who preach their words? Is that an answer to Rami's post? Or, just some typical Neo Con slander of the LOCAL POPULATION? How many people drove trucks into others before your Sent One sent troops into Iraq? What funding are you talking about? Do you have any experience of the area at all or you just like venting your anti-Arab (which I do understand the reason for in view of your personal tragedy) and anti-Islam stance, which I fail to understand. Tell us, convince us why should we stand-under the US? I hold noreason to worship Amreeka (like you promote) that the light bulb was invented there - F O R the simple reason that the bigest, the brightest source of light and energy rises from the EAST each morning with my Master's raza.

Slander of the local population is not what i am about, i clearly was talking about the suicide bomber who drove a car into a funeral and killed those who were burrying their dead. How pathetic to call this slander.

And yes it was an answer to Rami's post and it is up to him to reply if he wishes, this tirade of yours does not mean he has been answered for, so if he wishes he can reply still. By the way, the moon also rises in the east.

The Arabs made AMERICA into AMREEKA, so the true name of America has the word Ameer in it. Must be some conspiracy huh

Professor of Twist, it's Amreeka - not Ameerka. I know people can be shameless, but never knew someone with your limits.

How pathetic to call this slander.

I genuinely wish you could provoke something other than a pathetic response with your posts.

Amreeka is how arabs call it, America is how the rest of the world calls this nation. What is it you do not understand about my post Whisper.

What is it you do not understand about my post Whisper.

The problem is that I understand too much about your posts, which are nothing more than sheer twists. And, absolutely shameless twists at that.

You can hope for someone to agree with you on some held conspiracy theory of which there are so many out there, but let me tell you that is a weak group to take as helpers and allies. This you will come to know gradually.

Conspiracy theories are based on the fear of something or someone other then Allah, and those who hold to them obviously share these fears (fear of loss of power, loss of honor, loss of wealth, loss of life) otherwise they would not have accepted them and acted according to them, i remind you all that fearing something or someone other then Allah is unjust and is a cause of injustice in the world. Man is in loss, except those who had become safe and secure in faith, and urged with truth and urged with patience.

Professor sa'b, gone off the tangent again. Are you flowing some sort of a smoke? WHAT CONSPIRACY ARE WE TALIKING ABOUT HERE. We are just discussing how you disect the Ayaats from the Quran for your own agenda. It's no conspiracy. It's happening right here under our noses.

I hae seen this pet para of your's pasted here many times. Foregt about preaching to us. You hold no valid qualification to be an Imaam. You just run away behind a few of your pet pastes when you fail to face me on serious issues.

What thread did i run from? was it this one?

Many of us Americans don't like that we are occupied by power hungry control freaks in the two-party system which has no room for a humble person, like Abe Lincoln, to lead us in a way that we can accept instead of hate and vilify.  The rebel army who established our country, and whom the freedom hating power freaks misquote, would despise its leaders now and not recognize it as theirs.

first off Abe Lincoln was a republican.if your thinking that the founding fathers of America would not recognize the US today because we use our military to secure our interests.well so did they.in fact the practice has been common for mankind for eons.in the early 1800's the US was not the powerhouse it is now.but even than we knew international commerce was crucial to economic growth.Venice Italy at the time was the center of trading for much of the world.so US merchant ships set out for Italy.they vanished.so the Us sent 1 warship to escort the merchants.turns out there were pirates operating out of their base in tripoli.they seized the warship and the merchant vessels.the Mediterranean was controlled by the Barbary pirates.all of Europe backed away from fighting them and paid a yearly duty so their ships could pass freely.the US couldn't afford to pay..the Barbary pirates took the US ships and took their crews hostage until the US pays up.Famed English admiral Horatio Nelson would later say what happened next to be the single bravest thing he'd ever known of in his whole life. the US sent another ship it sailed into the Mediterranean and took a northern route hugging the coast of Spain and jetting across by night.the ship passed the Barbary fortress and landed in Egypt.some very special men disembarked the ships and went into the desert.several hundred miles across the Sahara on foot.this was unheard of then.the locals considered it impossible.when these troops got to the Barbary fortress they annihilated it slaughtering whoever was inside.only to find the prisoners had been released already.so the ship that dropped them off pulls up while these newly formed US military units known as "marines" torch the remnants of the fortress and torched the entire Barbary fleet of ships too.including the captured US ship.they then boarded their ship and left......who ordered this attack??...President Thomas Jefferson

In this world, peace without securing the peace is impossible...it is a huge pipe dream...
people like me are more tempted to follow Jesus' recipe of peace than anyother. Justice is the only guarantor of Peace.

Folks around the world would have had nothing for sloganeering had the US once, just once, not torpedoed just one resolution against Israel. This sets a blatant example for people across the world, not just in the Muslim world, but also in Europe, to guage the moonstruck state of the US.

kenski70 wrote: ....so the ship that dropped them off pulls up while these newly formed US military units known as "marines" torch the remnants of the fortress and torched the entire Barbary fleet of ships too.including the captured US ship.they then boarded their ship and left......who ordered this attack??...President Thomas Jefferson

Also remember how the officers of marine corps got their tradition of carrying a sword. I believe this is a very important thing. Since the sword is the ultimum weapon of fairness, respect and honor in battle.

Since the sword is the ultimum weapon of fairness, respect and honor in battle.

Great! I am going to go and just find a sword to become fair, respectful and honourable!

but what about moderation and reason on the Muslim predominated side (visa vi Israel?)
Just think for a minute. If Israel was not manufactured out of sheer imperial arrogance and thrust upon the people of that area - what would have happened?

If the powers in White Hall and the White House had taken "people" into confidence and said that the Jews are your brothers in dire straits, they need a home - how many would have said bugger off?

With Christ's recipe no one would have wanted Israel to be wiped off the map of the earth - just ONLY if they were taken in as partners in the creation of Israel.

When we kick people in their butts and expect them to do as they are told - thats exactly what happens.

Sorry Sasha, this is arrogant in itself. 

One day, I will have to borrow that technoloy from you, of not reading the post but something else from somewhere else out of the sudden blue!

I am for the rights of all people in the world, anywhere. BUT what good is "rights" if offered to anyone in a cursed cup?

Our good old Brits are known for sowing discontent, dividing and ruling and all those sorts of things. They way Israel was created + the way Israel behaved with the people of the area was almost like a hood being forced onto a neighbourhood.

The Anglo-Americans created it for fear and strife in the area. What do you expect? Peace and harmony?

The results of following the ways of some Machiavellis or Leo Strauss s are before us. We can rid of this hell only by finding the divine string!

Bismillah,

Yeah, Thomas Jefferson was also an adulterer.  What a guy.  In spite of his obvious character flaws, the Delcaration of Independence is still a great document.  It would be even better if all countries had their own and weren't subjugated to the powers that be.

Everyone knows the Israeli government is an unjust terroristic organization, including them.  The humans of the area would like peace through mutual kindness, but the self-serving politicians in Israel, America, England and even Phalasteen refuse to allow that.

Somehow, you always hit the nail in the head. And, in a short, sweet most effective way. I love the logic of "compassion" preached by some Americans - Israel can Dera Yassin and approx 500 other villages - drive out 740,000 men, women and chidren - the archives admit that it's being done per a plan

BUT, when the oppressed retaliate, hell breaks loose and, we hear grand shouts of "FOUL".

Great compassion, MacJustice!

W: Our good old Brits are known for sowing discontent, dividing and ruling and all those sorts of things. They way Israel was created + the way Israel behaved with the people of the area was almost like a hood being forced onto a neighbourhood.

The Anglo-Americans created it for fear and strife in the area. What do you expect? Peace and harmony?

The results of following the ways of some Machiavellis or Leo Strauss s are before us. We can rid of this hell only by finding the divine string!

===============

To whatever extent the Brits and the US and the West were involved in injustices to the Palestinians - this needs to be addressed.  But, as you say, moving forward we must find a 'divine string' and if that's to be done in must be done on BOTH SIDES. 

Are you and herjihad claiming that the Jews have 'no rights' and that the Jewish government is completely - a 'terrorist organization?'

I would never say the same about 'all Palestinians.' 

Such generalizations never help and always hurt...why go there?

Let's get to a 'divine string' - why don't we?

Today, we hold that chance of getting the two sides together. There are more and more Israelis who are drawing away from what Sharon had promised them about "his Iraq venture".

It's now dead. So is Sharon's old pet stand.

Plus, it's sheer nonsense injustice to posture stand against peoples' natural leaders just because they don't suit the State Department designs for certain areas.

Let's get a citizens' Group going - both the sides deserve peace - they won't get it from any admin anywhere in the world. It's not in their interest fro that area to be peacefull, prosperous and above all INDEPENEDENT!

B: I don't think that's the case - 'it's not in their interest.'  The INDEPENDENT comment - I would tend to agree with you about that...it's in the economic powers' interests to keep economic dependency and co-dependencies going - but the idea that people want instability - I think that's just plain wrong sir, in my humble opinion.
Keeping that dependency is a recipe of instability. It was a Brit recipe to keep a country under control with a gang plantd as its leaders - with total and utter disregard for the masses. They never counted.

Somehow the US kitchen followed the same recipe book. It's hard for them to give bloodsucking up - we will have to step in and set up some new trends.

Today, we hold that chance of getting the two sides together. There are more and more Israelis who are drawing away from what Sharon had promised them about "his Iraq venture".

It's now dead. So is Sharon's old pet stand.

B: That's how it works in a democracy..

If that is truly how democracy works, than why should or would anyone want it? 

If that is truly how democracy works, than why should or would anyone want it? 

By sheer miracle of marketing! If marketing could sell a woman like Madonna, they could sell or oversell anything in our world.

I happen to be in the camp that believes that helping the 3rd world to develop will do more than any army could ever do (this is true in Iraq and Palestine also) at preventing terrorism.

One hundred percent with you. Not just that, a natural and just human system has no scope left for terrorism. The real reason of terrorism is swept underthe carpet by our bosses - it's the ism's - be it Communism, Cap It All ism or anyother nice ism.

If that is truly how democracy works, than why should or would anyone want it? 

By sheer miracle of marketing! If marketing could sell a woman like Madonna, they could sell or oversell anything in our world.

Like I said, "If that is truly how democracy works, than why should or would anyone want it?" 

Bismillah,

People are born, live and die with nothing but injustice and poverty all of their lives in America.  Not much trickles down to them except the Mercy of Allah,  The One, the Eternal.  Everyone gets that, even in America. 

 People living these lives are not exceptions.  The majority is manipulated and marketed to by the status quo of the powers that be.  I am an earthling Muslimah with an American passport.  The pridefullness of nations will be dust at Allah, SWT's feet.

The pridefullness of nations will be dust at Allah, SWT's feet.

The pridefullness of nations rises from trash even to start with. It's never more than a false bubble to keep us from seeking the beyond, the truth.