Sarah,Sarai Abrahams wife and his sister???
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Topic: Sarah,Sarai Abrahams wife and his sister???
Posted By: iec786
Subject: Sarah,Sarai Abrahams wife and his sister???
Date Posted: 05 January 2014 at 4:56am
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Salaams,
This is puzzling In the Bible we are told that Sarah is Abrahams wife.Then Now Abraham said of Sarah his wife, �She is my sister.� One father different mothers.That is not half sister it is full sister.Isaac would be considered a B*ASTARD child. A B*STARD shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD. What then of all his beloved DESCENDANTS THE jew's could we call them also B*ASTARDS according to the Bible ????? Please note these are not my words i am merely quoting the HOLY BIBLE.iF YOU FEEL OFFENDED THEN PLEASE CONSULT YOUR BIBLE SCHOLARS AND CHANGE IT IF IT SUITS YOU. Thank you Ismail. |
Replies:
Posted By: Placid
Date Posted: 06 January 2014 at 1:48pm
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While you might think you can make an issue of this it is history. God said that Ishmael would have 12 sons and become a great nation, which they became in Saudi Arabia in the days that the sons lived, --- but God said the blessing would be on Isaac who would be born to Sarah.
--- If God said it, and did it, then your argument is with Him. --- In the beginning the brothers had to marry their full sisters, and these mixed marriages perhaps continued for years. --- Abraham and Sarah, having different mothers, would make her a half-sister. All the things you criticize God for doing in the Old Covenant, and then expect to get response from Christians from the New Covenant, --- it is part of history, so it is between you and God. It is Him that is keeping record of everything you say. Remember what it says in Surah 50: 16 It was We Who created man, and We know what dark suggestions his soul makes to him: for We are nearer to him than (his) jugular vein. 17 Behold, two (guardian angels) appointed to learn (his doings) learn (and noted them), one sitting on the right and one on the left. 18 Not a word does he utter but there is a sentinel by him, ready (to note it). |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 06 January 2014 at 5:28pm
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Greetings Ismail, Where did you get this verse from the Bible? I think I perhaps know where from but would like to confirm before giving explanation. I believe you did not read far enough to understand. Salaam and blessings, CLynn ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: iec786
Date Posted: 07 January 2014 at 8:30am
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[QUOTE=Caringheart]
Greetings Ismail,Where did you get this verse from the Bible?I think I perhaps know where from but would like to confirm before giving explanation.I believe you did not read far enough to understand.Salaam and blessings,CLynn Hi Caringheart, "And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife. (Genesis 20:12)" "Cursed be he that lieth with his sister, the daughter of his father, or the daughter of his mother. And all the people shall say, Amen. (Deuteronomy 27:22)" AMEN. greetings Ismail |
Posted By: iec786
Date Posted: 07 January 2014 at 8:46am
As proven again and again in my posts, the Bible's narrations' simply can not be trusted, because they had been clearly created by men who were not appointed by GOD Almighty. There are ample errors and contradictions in the Bible, and they can not be ignored. If you're going to consider words as the True Living Words of GOD Almighty, then you must at least have the very basic proofs that they indeed came from the Almighty. But taking men's words and appoint them to GOD is a grave error and sin that you would commit against GOD Almighty. |
Placid wrote:Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 07 January 2014 at 2:28pm
Greetings Ismail. Thank you. I see, it is a puzzler. I do not however see how you conclude this makes Isaac a b____d. That is one who is born outside the covenant of marriage, and Abram was indeed married to Sarai when she had Isaac. What does the qur'an have to say on the matter? What does the qur'an tell you about Abram and Sarai? Shukran and salaam, Caringheart ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: iec786
Date Posted: 09 January 2014 at 10:13am
Hi Caringheart, Yes it is puzzling and a sad one too.I think the Bible writers have made a grave mistake with this one to say that Personally as a Muslim, I don't believe that Sarah was Abraham's biological sister. Why would GOD Almighty allow for Abraham to marry his own biological sister if GOD Almighty was later going to curse those who do? GOD Almighty wasn't the author of the current bible, for otherwise we wouldn't have this type of embarrassing contradiction between Abraham marrying his own biological sister, Sarah, and Moses cursing those who have sex with their sisters. At least GOD Almighty wouldn't have inspired Abraham to marry his own biological sister. My answer to caringheart is we do not believe in the sister marriage at all. Peace be unto you. Ismail |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 09 January 2014 at 11:46pm
Greetings Ismail, So I am presuming then that the qur'an is silent on the matter? You do not believe in sister marriage, but this is based on what? What does the qur'an say? Where can I read about Abram and Sarai in the qur'an? Shukran and salaam, Caringheart note: You didn't answer though... How is it that you come to the conclusion of Isaac being a b___d? Have you changed that thought? ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: Placid
Date Posted: 10 January 2014 at 1:52pm
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You can search further online for the ancestors of Ammon and Moab, if you like. Quote from Wikipedia: According to the biblical account, Ammon and Moab were born to Lot and Lot's younger and elder daughters, respectively, in the aftermath of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. The Bible refers to both the Ammonites and Moabites as the "children of Lot".Genesis 19:37-38 |
Posted By: iec786
Date Posted: 12 January 2014 at 4:04am
Hi Carringheart, How are you? The question you posed is not really a question but a poser. Let us work from the statement. (a) "Why saidst thou (O Abraham), she is my sister? So I might have taken her to me to WIFE . . . now take her (Sarah) and go thy Way." GENESIS 12:19 (b) "And yet INDEED she (Sarah) is my sister (!) . . . and she became my (Abraham's) WIFE." GENESIS 20:12 So Sarah is Abrahams sister from his own words,so this is an incest marriage,the children from an incestrious marraige is?????You can answer it you do not have to be a rocket scientist. As for the Quran it is the speech of Allah and not a history book.The Quran deals with facts and it is a warner of what is in store for those who disobey the teachings of Allah. Who slept with who and who went into who no my dear it has no place for *sex and sexual promiscuity. Carringheart i have just come across the same story just differant characters.I wonder if this is not some one taking a chance writing what he feels or looking for a story. 6 And Isaac dwelt in Gerar: 7 And the men of the place asked him of his wife; and he said, She is my sister: for he feared to say, She is my wife; lest, said he, the men of the place should kill me for Rebekah; because she was fair to look upon. 8 And it came to pass, when he had been there a long time, that Abimelech king of the Philistines looked out at a window, and saw, and, behold, Isaac was sporting with Rebekah his wife. 9 And Abimelech called Isaac, and said, Behold, of a surety she is thy wife; and how saidst thou, She is my sister? And Isaac said unto him, Because I said, Lest I die for her. Peace be unto you Ismail. The butcher of Sabra & Shatila is no more.The devil better watch out. |
Posted By: iec786
Date Posted: 12 January 2014 at 4:11am
Hi Placid, Could you please look up these verses. (a) "Why saidst thou (O Abraham), she is my sister? So I might have taken her to me to WIFE . . . now take her (Sarah) and go thy Way." GENESIS 12:19 (b) "And yet INDEED she (Sarah) is my sister (!) . . . and she became my (Abraham's) WIFE." GENESIS 20:12 |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 13 January 2014 at 10:39am
Greetings Ismail, Abram and Sarai, according to what is written, were only half-brother, half-sister. "she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother" I do not imagine in those times this would have been considered incestuous. We now know how backwards it is, but in those times I can imagine it was acceptable, as were so many other things we now know better about. Regarding your other comments; What about... Doesn't the qur'an teach which hand you must use for going to the bathroom, and which hand must be used for eating? with no regard for the natural inclination of a person to left, or right-handedness? Yet you think it would be ridiculous for the qur'an to address the issues we discuss here? Islam is far more explicit than the Bible, on details of private living, to the point of intrusive. I don't know how much of it comes from the qur'an and how much comes from hadith, but who are you kidding? The qur'an has plenty to say on the subject of sex... but it nowhere tells the history of the most important man in the history of the religion? The Creator thought it more important to teach about hand washing, how to go to the bathroom, and when and how to have sex? The story you relate regarding Isaac is an illustration of how sons will repeat the transgressions of the previous generations. I don't understand the comment about the 'butcher of Sabra and Shatila'? Salaam and blessings to you, Caringheart ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: islamispeace
Date Posted: 14 January 2014 at 7:46pm
Incidentally, the first article I published on my new blog partly dealt with this story in the Bible. I think it was Israelite propaganda designed to demonize the Moabites and Ammonites, who were their bitterest enemies. What better way to do that than claim that their ancestors were the result of incestuous relationships! http://quranandbible.blogspot.com/2014/01/normal-0-false-false-false-en-us-x-none.html - http://quranandbible.blogspot.com/2014/01/normal-0-false-false-false-en-us-x-none.html ------------- Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162) |
Posted By: iec786
Date Posted: 16 February 2014 at 10:52am
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[/QUOTE]Greetings Ismail,Abram and Sarai, according to what is written, were only half-brother, half-sister.� "she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother"I do not imagine in those times this would have been considered incestuous.� We now know how backwards it is, but in those times I can imagine it was acceptable, as were so many other things we now know better about.Regarding your other comments;What about... Doesn't the qur'an teach which hand you must use for going to the bathroom, and which hand must be used for eating?� with no regard for the natural inclination of a person to left, or right-handedness?� Yet you think it would be ridiculous for the qur'an to address the issues we discuss here?� Islam is far more explicit than the Bible, on details of private living, to the point of intrusive.� I don't know how much of it comes from the qur'an and how much comes from hadith, but who are you kidding?� The qur'an has plenty to say on the subject of sex... but it nowhere tells the history of the most important man in the history of the religion?� The Creator thought it more important to teach about hand washing, how to go to the bathroom, and when and how to have sex?The story you relate regarding Isaac is an illustration of how sons will repeat the transgressions of the previous generations.I don't understand the comment about the 'butcher of Sabra and Shatila'?Salaam and blessings to you,Caringheart[/QUOTE] Hi Caringheart, One father two mothers.are not half but full brothers and sisters.
Yes it was incestrous imagion or not.
weather you left handed or right handed makes no difference you will still use your left hand to wash your backside and you left out with water,not just toilet paper you see just toilet paper leaves a smell in Islam we leave nothing to chance.
You are now trying to judge the Quran by your Bible standards.let us take a few points in discussing this topic of sex in the Bible. The different types of sex in the Bible. Samson has SEX with a whore in Gaza. JUDGES 16:1 Ruth COHABITS with Boaz in the barn. RUTH 3:4-15 David SLEEPS with a young virgin. 1 KINGS 11:1,3 INCEST :now for the different types of incest as if this is a book on incest. "Sexual intercourse between two persons who are too closely related." (New Collins Dictionary). For example, between father and daughter, son and mother, father-in-law and daughter-in-law, brother and sister, etc. INCEST IN GOD'S BOOK (?) BETWEEN A FATHER AND HIS DAUGHTERS: (a) "That night they (both the daughters of Lot) gave him (their father Lot) wine to drink, and the older daughter had INTERCOURSE with him ... "The next day the older daughter said to her sister, l slept with him last night: now let's get him drunk again tonight, and you sleep with him. Then each of us will have a child by our father. "So that night they got him drunk, and the younger daughter had INTERCOURSE with him ... "In this way both of Lot's daughters became PREGNANT by their father." GENESIS 19:33-35 (From the "Good News Bible in Today's English"). In the older Versions, like the King James and the Roman Catholic Versions, "SEXUAL INTERCOURSE" is vaguely described as "COLLECTING THE SEED OF OUR FATHER." INCEST BETWEEN MOTHER AND SON: (b) "While Jacob (Israel) was living in the land, Reuben (his firstborn, his eldest son) had SEXUAL INTERCOURSE with Bilhah, his father's concubine. " GENESIS 35:22. The older Versions of the Bible, use the word, "lay" for SEXUAL INTERCOURSE. INCEST BETWEEN FATHER-IN-LAW AND DAUGHTER-IN-LAW: (c) "When Judah saw her (Tamar, his daughter-in-law), he thought she was a prostitute, because she had covered her face. "He went over to her at the side of the road and said, "ALL RIGHT, HOW MUCH DO YOU CHARGE?" (He did not know that she was his daughter-in-law) "She said what will you give me?" (To have sex with me). "He answered, I WILL SEND YOU A YOUNG GOAT FROM MY FLOCK. "She said, "All right, if you will give me something to keep as a pledge until you send the goat. ". . . He gave them (the pledges) to her. Then had INTERCOURSE, and she became pregnant." GENESIS 38:15-I8 (Quoted from the "Good News Bible"). Out of this incestuous relationship between a father-in-law and his daughter-in-law, twins were born, who were destined to become the great-grand-fathers of Jesus Christ. See MATTHEW 1:3 "And Judas begat Phares and Zarah of Thamar . . ." INCEST AND RAPE BETWEEN BROTHER AND SISTER: (d) ". . . he took hold of her (Thamar, his sister, not to be confused with Thamar in "c" above), and said unto her, Come lie with me (have sex with me), my sister. 2 Samuel 13:11 "And she answered him, Nay, my brother (Amnon, one of the sons of David, the man after God's own heart), do not force me . . ." 2 Samuel 13:12 "But he would not listen to her; and since he was stronger than she was, he overpowered her and RAPED her (his sister)." 2 Samuel 13:14 WHOLESALE RAPE AND INCEST BETWEEN SON AND HIS MOTHERS! (e) "So they set up a tent for Absalom (another son of King David) on the palace roof, and in the sight of everyone, Absalom went in and had INTERCOURSE with his father's concubines ." 2 SAMUEL 16:22 (f) For other various types of incest see LEVITICUS 18:8-18, 20:11- 14 and 17-21. These are just a few topics of sex in the Bible.The Quran does not have any of this trash in it.
I just posted that Sharon the killer was dead. peace to you Ismail |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 17 February 2014 at 12:48pm
Greetings Ismail, I am sure that you have knowledge of DNA and that you must understand that one father, two mothers, does not produce 'full brothers and sisters', but only half, since they share only half of their DNA... that which came from their father... but the DNA from their mothers causes them to be half, not fully related. As far as what you posted about sex in the Bible... these are the stories of things which occurred. Your point was that they had no place in the scriptures... but the scriptures record the history of the behavior of the people... good and bad. Your feeling was that the subject of sex had no place in scripture, and I was pointing out that the qur'an, and hadith, have plenty of place for the subject of sex. Salaam, CLynn ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: iec786
Date Posted: 18 February 2014 at 9:58am
Hi CLynn,nice name somewhat different. 
Ok what do you think Abraham meant when he said, 12 Besides, she really is my sister, the daughter of my father though not of my mother; and she became my wife. Was he considering the DNA factor or did he really think it was his sister??? Do you know of anyone married to his half sister or brother. My own opinion even if you share half of the DNA you could not marry one another it would be incest. The sex factor in the Quran is to teach men what you are allowed to do and what is forbidden to you. The Bible gives you account like the story of Jacob and his daughter in law.Lot and his daughters i mean what is the moral of the story??? say well Ismail |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 18 February 2014 at 9:55pm
Hi Ismail, I had to go back to see what originated our discussion. lol So essentially you are saying that you do not believe what is written about Abram and Sarai in the Judeo-Christian scriptures. Would that be correct? and I think I simply said that it was likely a common thing in those ancient times... and I mainly replied because being half-sister and half-brother married does not make Isaac a b__d. and the qur'an says nothing against sister/brother marriage either... is that correct? I mean I agree with you, we have progressed in knowledge and know that this is not advisable practice and is no longer practiced by most... at least I hope it isn't. Perhaps in the days when the gene pool was still pure it was not such an issue but as time has gone on we have seen it can be a very big issue. We have been able to avoid many abnormalities, deformities, and mental retardations with our increased knowledge... things that did perhaps exist in great abundance in ancient days... perhaps this is why people blamed demons and such, because they didn't know any better. Perhaps this is why they killed their own children... and I am sure many of them simply died as well. I guess perhaps we eventually began to learn from these things... to put 2 and 2 together. Salaam, Caringheart note: I think the moral of the story with Abram and Sarai was about deception... when Abram deceived a king by not revealing the full truth about Sarai and saying that 'she is my sister' and not telling him that she was also his wife. Not all the stories in the scriptures have a moral... many are just simple factual histories which illustrate the human frailties and sinful nature. I forget which ones, and how many, and am too tired to look it up... but there is a complete section of the Judeo scriptures which are the historical texts... simply recordings for the purpose of preserving history. Peace and blessings to you. ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: iec786
Date Posted: 19 February 2014 at 11:14am
Hi Caringheart, I think we should agree that this had nothing to do with God writing or the Holy Spirit but just someone anonymous putting pen to paper. I say that because the same story popped up with Isaac and one incident is heavy enough but then you had Isaac story exactly the same,and we can deduce that this was an interpolation on the writers behalf.The writer probably wrote the first piece and found it fascinating and decided to repeat the same storey just changing the characters. peace to you Ismail. ps have a good rest. |
Posted By: Al Saadiqeen21
Date Posted: 19 February 2014 at 11:55am
According to the Scriptures meaning Chapter's and Verses where can the above be found ????? ------------- One doesn't go to school let His / her's mind to die , They go to school so that their mind will come alive . |
Posted By: Caringheart
Date Posted: 19 February 2014 at 11:22pm
Greetings Al Saadiqeen21, See posts 3 and 4... June 6 and 7. I asked the same question and Ismail responded.  Salaam, Caringheart ------------- Let us seek Truth together Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
Posted By: iec786
Date Posted: 20 February 2014 at 8:39am
****** : This word occurs in the Bible THREE times. (a) "The ****** shall not enter the congregation of the Lord; even to his tenth generation . . ." DEUTRONOMY 23:2 (b) "And the ****** shall dwell in Ashdod . . ." ZECHARIAH 9:6 (c) "But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then ye are ******S and not sons." HEBREWS 12:8 |